Visual Cues for Deaf and Hearing Impared Gamers
IFIYGD
USA Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218210Members
USA Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218210Members
Suggestion for playability for deaf and hearing impaired gamers
I know 2 deaf gamers who play and enjoy the game, and have seen threads by other deaf and hearing impaired gamers inquiring about the game. The audio cues (creature attack sounds in particular) are lost for them, as are any audio given by the compute voices. Since closed captioning the game may be difficult and distract players, or obscure views needed to see items and creatures...
I would like to suggest a shader, similar to the red shader on the screen when you get bitten/lose HP to an attack. Instead of red (blood lost), I recommend a yellow shader to indicate an incoming attack, at least for medium and large fauna. Biters and Bleeders hit so fast that the shader may be more of a distraction, and I don't feel it would be of benefit there. But to warn of danger from Stalkers and other Sharks or larger predators, the yellow indication would give deaf and hearing players an indication that they need to evade or defend.
Just a thought.
I know 2 deaf gamers who play and enjoy the game, and have seen threads by other deaf and hearing impaired gamers inquiring about the game. The audio cues (creature attack sounds in particular) are lost for them, as are any audio given by the compute voices. Since closed captioning the game may be difficult and distract players, or obscure views needed to see items and creatures...
I would like to suggest a shader, similar to the red shader on the screen when you get bitten/lose HP to an attack. Instead of red (blood lost), I recommend a yellow shader to indicate an incoming attack, at least for medium and large fauna. Biters and Bleeders hit so fast that the shader may be more of a distraction, and I don't feel it would be of benefit there. But to warn of danger from Stalkers and other Sharks or larger predators, the yellow indication would give deaf and hearing players an indication that they need to evade or defend.
Just a thought.
Comments
If you want a quick answer from the Devs themselves,go to discord and ask them.Cory and Obraxis frequently go there to answer questions and suggestions.If you want to know how to get in the Subnautica Chatroom,go to the pinned "NEW SUBNAUTICA CHATROOM" post at the front page.
Delfin, shame on you. The proposed solution is incredibly low-impact (No modeling or anything, just needs some copy paste of code with adjustments? Not far into this part myself yet) and allows for a more inclusive experience!
I think you're being a bit dismissive of the amount of effort it would actually take to do this well. Also, shame on delfin for... what? Pointing out the truth? It's not like he said it was a bad idea or something - he just pointed out that it's unlikely to get done in the near future.
Indeed they do have a hell of a lot on their plates and I applaud them for the dedication and commitment they've put into the game and the community it's created, but I can't disagree more with the above statement if it is indeed true. The fact that 90% of the gaming industry don't bother with this sort of thing is exactly the reason why developers like Unknown Worlds should do it.
You may be right and it may be low down the list, or possibly something that they hadn't even considered at all, for which I don't blame them. Personally I wouldn't have considered that kind of thing either until getting together with my partner, who is hearing impaired. Since then I've witnessed first hand just how many things she struggles with, not through any malicious intent by others, but through the simple truth that it's so often within our nature to assume that everyone experiences the world in the same way we do.
Unfortunately the 'effort to benefit ratio' has been used by us able-bodied people since time immemorial to avoid having to put in that comparatively small amount of extra effort to consider and include those with disabilities in activities we take for granted, and I would argue it is in many ways far worse than not having considered it at all.
Will they be able to accommodate everyone? No of course not. But doing what they can will make a big difference to many I'm sure, and this is the kind of thing that snowballs, the greater then number of developers to include these kinds of things, the more will follow suit. I think it would be a great opportunity for Unknown Worlds if they were to help lead the way into a new era of inclusive gaming. And not making those features (and thereby those with impairments) an afterthought post version 1.0, but including them but as a core part of their game. I know I'd happily wait a few more weeks for them to include things like that.
My compliments to @IFIYGD for coming up with the idea.
The part I took exception to in Delfin's post was claiming that something like this was very low on the dev's priority. This is a way to open gaming to an entire new world and while I'm not hearing impaired myself I'd love to see this sort of thing start happening, I am colorblind and while most games don't include aids for that the ones that do I see as having gone an extra mile and I tend to appreciate those more.
I understand the game is early in development and it's the most obvious understatement in the world to say they're busy with a lot of other stuff right now, but this would also be the perfect time to implement such a feature. No harm in suggesting although the topic probably would've been better received in the Suggestions section, hopefully a dev takes notice either way.
Maybe see if a moderator could move it to the suggestions forum?
Also,shame on me?Im not saying "screw all the impaired gamers.I don't want to waste the Devs time with that bull.!LETS DO THE SEA DRAGON NOW!".Im saying the Devs have no time right now to add unplanned features.Honestly,I mean no offence but just look around.Practically no games offer aid for impaired people and only a few offer help for colourblind gamers.The few games that offer help are completed and the Devs are simply adding extra for their audience as a bonus.
Now look at Subnautica.An EARLY ACCESS game that has a ton of difficult to implement features that have not even been worked on,tons of bugs and problems that they are trying to fix and a dev team that's extremely busy with all that and trying to release the game before August.This is exactly why I said "wait for V1.0 (the games official release)" then suggest it,because aids for impaired players isn't very high on their list at the moment.When the Devs have added all of their planned features and all of the bugs and problems are fixed,they will look at fans for ideas and feedback and that will be the perfect time to suggest it or ask for it to be implemented.The Devs are reasonable,so I assume they will add this in the future.
Either way,I do actually fully support this idea and I would love to see it implemented in the game,which is why I asked you guys to talk to the Devs directly about it or wait for V1.0 to suggest it so you would have better chances rather than have another great idea buried in a mountain of posts.
You may have meant no offence, but trust me, offence was taken by my partner when she read that. And I'm not telling you that to try and make you feel bad, but simply to try and make you see how sentiments like that make the people you're talking about feel. My point is that features that allow games to be accessible to colour blind and hearing impaired individuals (among others where possible) should[/] be planned. Accessibility features aren't just a 'bonus' to those who need them, they're often a necessity if they are to have an enjoyable experience, assuming they can experience it at all. And do you honestly think that because practically no games offer aid for people with impairments, that's a valid reason to continue the trend?
As @Lhast said, the fact that this game is in development means it's the perfect time to address such issues, not as an after thought patch. To those that don't need it it's a feature they'll probably ignore, but for those that do it'll be an integral part of their experience, not just some 'extra'.
And it's great that you support the idea, but suggesting people should wait for version 1.0 to be released before they even start thinking about accessibility features is again missing the point entirely. Imagine one day you end up in a wheelchair and everywhere you go has steps, because the people that designed all the buildings didn't put any thought into accessibility for people who can't walk. Yeah you can ask them for a ramp and wait while they bring one out of a cupboard or cobble one together as everyone else walks by having a good time. You'll still get in eventually, but how would that make you feel? And then you decide to go somewhere else, but you find that wherever you try to go it's all the same because, well, no one else has bothered with ramps have they? And then one day, during construction of a new and exciting building, someone points out that they've noticed a lot of people struggling to get into all the other buildings, and suggests that maybe it might be really helpful to change the design ever so slightly. Not a lot, but enough to allow unfettered access to as many people as possible from day one, to make all those people that struggle elsewhere feel as valued and considered as everyone else.
Given all that, do you really think it's reasonable to say "nah, we've already got enough on and no one else is bothering, they can wait until we've finished everything else and then we'll look at maybe throwing something together for them if we have time"? or would it be to make that comparatively small alteration and build the ramp ready for the opening day?
I admit that example is rather more extreme than what we're talking about here, and sorry if it comes across as a little aggressive, but I think it's so easy to overlook the difference these things make to people who need them, and to underestimate just how ignored they feel when they're thought of as a 'nice to have'.
The Devs have said that their schedule is VERY TIGHT,and as such,they are working on planned features.Basically,they planned the game at the start and as such,they have to work on the plans.Using your analogy,this is basically building the buildings supports,walls etc. In this state,would building ramps be necessary when the building itself has only the most basic structures in place?.Thats why I said suggest it after V1.0,when the building is mostly complete,or the Devs are done with the features and can actually listen to the fan feedback and add unplanned features,like support for impaired people.(Please do note that by Unplanned,I don't mean an afterthought.By unplanned,I mean features that are not on their current list of things to be implemented)
The fact is,impaired people are a minority,and as such,many developers don't actually specialise the game or add features to help them.Look at the most popular games right now,and I gurantee that at least 3/4 of them don't have aid for the impaired.Thats why I said that the majority of games don't actually do anything to help or aid the impaired and only a few developers bother to help them.Even if you disagree with my points,this is a sad fact in the gaming industry.
In your own analogy,many buildings don't have ramps.This special new building that has just sprung up is only a few supports and walls but it is very promising.You feel that it should have ramps,so you ask them to add ramps.Now I tell you,"wait for the building to be completed first,then they will add ramps,right now,the developers are working on building the actual structure so they can't focus on more specialised aspects like that".So I feel you should either ask the contractors if they plan to add ramps,or you should wait till the building's structure is in place,then ask if ramps will be added.
No offence meant but I see how your partner might be offended,and as such,I apologise for any offence I caused.
So you're not saying to develop the game completely first and disabled people can wait, but you are saying that we should wait for the game to be completed before asking for any accessibility features? And yes I know that they'll keep developing the game after 1.0, but that is the official release. That's the grand opening, and what you saying is that people shouldn't bother the builders with ideas such as accessibility until then, leaving anyone with disabilities waiting in the cold while everyone else gets a good looksee around the place.
I totally agree with you in that is is indeed a sad fact, but I'm still not sure why said fact is anything but a huge argument for developers to start thinking about such things during early stages of development and implementing them as often as possible. How has 'well no one else is doing it' ever been a good reason not to do something positive? And you may not have meant it like that, but by even mentioning it, it sounds like you're trying to use it as a justification.
If that's the case, then what's the point of having a whole section dedicated to Ideas and Suggestions on the forum?
As for the building, I'm sure if you ask any architect, building planner or builder, they'll tell you it's much easier to have these things in the plans earlier rather than later, so you can better lay things out, rather than having to cram it in wherever it'll fit.
And I totally get that in this very instance it might not be possible, that schedules are tight and demands are high, but that wasn't my point. My analogy wasn't about the builders, it was about the people who may have difficulty accessing the building through lack of accessibility that could have easily been planned for . It was an attempt to try and make you (and anyone else reading) understand for a moment what it might be like to be one of the people so often overlooked by planners, designers, developers etc. The point isn't about when it's most convenient for the builders/developers to make changes to the finished product because the original design makes things difficult for some people to access or enjoy it, but that these people and their needs should ideally be factored in at the design stage, so as to be made to feel as valuable a customer as you or I.
Thanks, she appreciates it and gets that no offence was meant, but you have to understand that obstacles like these (and the arguments made to justify not planning for them from the start) are the kind of thing that people with all kinds of impairments encounter every day. All it takes it a little thought and planning early on to make the world of difference to a lot of people, and it's usually less work for the builders than bodging something on at the end too.
But Delfin - I am not suggesting a huge change, or massive amounts of work. The same model that is used for showing damage taken (red around the screen) would simply need a new color number assigned to change it from red to yellow. If the crack in the mask that appears is attached, yes, that would require it to be rewritten to remove that effect. And yes, it would need to be meshed in to connect to each predator's attack vocalization. I am a programmer, not a game dev, but a programmer, and I do get the work involved. But if it is done before polish and optimization, before the game goes gold, it is much less work that trying to add it after the game is completed, where it may affect optimizations already in place.
I'll go find the "Ideas & Suggestions" threads and repost my OP there. But I hope the discussion continues, here or there. I know 2 deaf gamers who play this game already. And several others who love the look of the game but are waiting to buy until they feel more comfortable that they can play and enjoy it as well. My company does accessibility software and technology development to make computer use better and easier for people with physical disabilities, sight and hearing impairment. Because, as you made too clear, many companies do not take into consideration this "minority" of people who can do many of the same things as those of us who are not "disabled", if some small things are done to assist them. Not remake the whole world, or rewrite a whole game with a special version for deaf and hearing impaired gamers. Just one relatively small addition that makes what they already enjoy a bit more enjoyable. And that may be welcomed by other customers who are not "hardcore" gamers. Those who may never play Hardcore Mode. But who will spend money to buy the game if it had this "warning" signal (that will likely be either ignored or cried about by the "hardcore" crybullies...).
People with different abilities and more casual gamers buy games too. *shrugs*
Of all the faux pas you could have made, I'd say posting an idea for discussion in the General Discussion forum is pretty far down the list, so don't worry too much about it.
May I ask the name of your company? I'm sure my partner would be interested.
I don't know if it's feasible for games to be inclusive for every kind of player limitation, but fact is we have yet to give it a try. Gaming is still so badly tied up in being able to show off even when the game is singleplayer. Achievements have a particular (and complex) place in this mentality. It's worth exploring if it's possible to do things differently, especially when several adjustments aren't that costly, like the one IFIYGD proposes. It reminds me of Five Nights at Freddy's 4 that had several hearing impaired fans request something that'd allow them to play the game too. I have never seen confirmation it was in response to these requests, but when the Halloween update rolled in, there was an option to play the game with a map to see the animatronics' movement. Not the most refined system, but something nonetheless.
A couple of the things said in this thread remind me of the situation with the female model option. I'm a tad disappointed about the ease with which I can find other fans say no resources should be "wasted" on an addition that does not matter gameplay-wise or that if a female option is added the game should be technically changed to make the addition matter. Like a female option is not an invitation to the female portion of the fans that matters simply for acknowledging us, which is a rarity with games (and media in general). I do feel some way about having to wait for her until after 1.0, but considering both she and the male model already step outside of convention by being POC and concept art featuring divers is inclusive, which shows consideration from the devs' side, I accept the condition. I hope to see that consideration extend to options for impaired players.
Agreed. I think it goes back to my comment about people naturally assuming that everyone sees and experiences the world in the same way they do, and as a consequence of that it's easy to view to such requests as being a waste of time and resources that could be use on something more fun to them. And that's not a criticism, that's how we all are pretty much. I think the trick it to realise you're doing it and not dismiss it when it's pointed out to you by someone with a different view of the world (by which I mean someone who experiences the world differently, rather than just holding a different opinion). As I said earlier, my partner is hearing impaired and often works to promote the need for accessibility, and yet I'm slightly ashamed to say that even I didn't think about accessibility in video games for people like her until @IFIYGD 's post.
As for female characters in gaming, yes there are some games with great female characters (Tomb Raider being the one that will probably spring to most peoples minds), but I imagine that if we woke up tomorrow to find that genders had been reversed in 100% of games, plenty of the guys who thought adding (non sexualised) female characters to be a waste of time would be demanding that they were changed back, regardless of the time and resources it would take.
1. Are you saying there should be a gameplay difference if you picked a female character or not?
2. I thought they were already working to implement the female character model, according to Trello;
https://trello.com/c/jSKLDayd
https://trello.com/c/NlUs6bVF (moved to backlog - looks like they have a lot of work to do yet, but the process has started.)
It's good that it's on the To Do list at least, but it's a shame it wasn't done at the same time as the male model. Hopefully it'll be done in time for the v1.0 release, so at least there'll be gender parity at launch.
This whole debate got me thinking, while we can take a guess at what it might or might not take to add accessibility features and the optimal time to do it, the best thing to do would be to ask a few game developers directly. Just to be clear, no none I spoke to is connected to Unknown Worlds so obviously can't comment on this game in particular, my question was simply about game development in general.
The Question I asked was "Comparatively, how much extra work to you think it would be to add a visual cue, like a coloured hue around the edge of the screen (in the same way that many games have when you take damage), whenever a 'danger' audio cue is heard (footsteps, monsters growling etc)? And on a more general note, how often are accessibility options (for visual as well as aural impairments) considered/discussed when developing a game?"
The answers I've received so far are:
"I know each game would be different, but generally speaking, would be easier to plan something like that in form the start, rather than adding it post release? Or would it not make much difference?" ----
Again, none of the above relates to Subnautica specifically and as it's already well into development we've got no idea how difficult it would be to add such features at this stage, but it seems clear that it's much easier to add, or at least design for the addition of accessibility features earlier rather than later in development.
It's still sad that so few (if any) studios are thinking about accessibility for hearing impaired gamers, especially when it appears to be something that would be relatively to implement if thought about from the start, but it's good to hear that there's a rise in consideration for colour blindness, a step in the right direction at least.
It would be really great to hear from Subnautica's Devs and get their thoughts on the topic though, assuming they have time of course.
He has 2 monitors, one widescreen and one old 4:3 screen above it. When he first loads a game he turns off all music and as many ambient noises as possible in the options. On the upper monitor he then opens a fullscreen audio mixer, where you can see both left and right audio channels. He looks at the normal game sound levels, usually wavering around 10-20%, then runs around so he sees how high his own footsteps spike the bars. So if he is running and sees _-_-_-_- he knows he is alone. If he sees _-_-_--- he knows someone else is around. If he is crouched and sees the bar rhythmically go above ambient, he knows someone else is moving up on him. When there are big spikes in sound he knows it is gunfire, and because the second monitor is just above his focus on the main screen, he can see in his periphery whether the noise came from the left or right channel.
As a fully hearing person it seems amazing to me, but he has assured me many times with the screen properly positioned in his periphery he doesn't actually have to look at it. I know there is a lot of ambient water noise in subnautica, but I think the creature noises should display similar spikes above the norm. Just throwing it out there in case it might help.