@Pelargir
And im not posting here cause i try to divide something, i post here cause i worry about the future of NS2 while most subcommunitys only worry about there existence.
And it's clear you'd rather have NS2 minus that subcommunity -- and less players for the whole game in the process. In which case, you are not interested in the future of NS2 dePara.
Look, at some point you have to get it in your head that not everyone wants to play the game the way you want to play it.
People who prefer small, play small.
People who prefer large, play large.
It's pretty simple. Large servers do not 'vacuum' up small server players. That implies these players are stupid robots, which is pretty insulting. Some players will play large and only large, and we've seen this with the reduction in total player base since the recent patches.
Maybe you'd like it that way? That's nice, fortunately you're not in control. If you were, NS2 would be dead now.
So, once and for all -- Large NS2 is NS2. Large NS2 will always be here. Large NS2 is popular. Large NS2 keeps NS2 alive. Large NS2 is good for rookies to learn. Finally, none of this is opinion -- it's not a matter of perspective, it's a matter of facts by just looking at a) server stats and b) posts here by both rookies and veterans.
And, it has to be said again, people who prefer large servers don't come on here and insist that small server players join large. They don't insult them for playing a different game. They don't rally against them and try to shut them down. In fact, all large servers players want to do is play large server games without people like you telling them how to play the game. With all due respect, your posts do nothing more than prove that it's the toxic nature of players like you that are killing this game.
It ends here. Enough. Either you're with NS2 -- which includes Large -- or against it. And if it's the latter, please, log off and don't come back.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
And again Tinki, your argument is pointless cause the game has lost more players one year ago.
So i cant see "the proof" here.
The 42 slot server is up and people playing on it: http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/servers/1750031/85.195.247.117:27015
This looks everything else than dead.
Peak playercount was still higher this April than last year April.
For me it looks more like:
NS2 playercount doesnt drop that much during the time the 42 slot server was not up.
But it look like everyone is interpreting the charts different and see only what they want to see.
Im sure the PDT has more neutral Data than ours based on emotions.
Someone should track down all these players that left NS2 (if that is even possible) and ask what's the main reason why they left and settle all of this once and for all lol.
And again Tinki, your argument is pointless cause the game has lost more players one year ago.
So i cant see "the proof" here.
The 42 slot server is up and people playing on it: http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/servers/1750031/85.195.247.117:27015
This looks everything else than dead.
You forgot Hamster Wheel, which has been dead since 294.
We are also 50 players down on average since 294. Hmmm... 1+1=?
That's 1/6 of our community.
The extensive analysis I gave in the previous thread shows clearly what has happened.
Someone should track down all these players that left NS2 (if that is even possible) and ask what's the main reason why they left and settle all of this once and for all lol.
Yes I did send this message to some UWE people on Discord, so some of you might have already read my opinion on this. But here it is for everyone else..
It just doesnt seem right that the devs of my favorite game get to decide which servers deserve the influx of new players and which servers don't. The playerbase in NS2 isn't too strong and we shouldn't cause a divide by excluding a HUGE part of the community from the standard server list. Yes, I am talking about Wooza, and yes it is my favorite server, and no I am no noob because just because I like to play Wooza. I love this game for the same reason UWE does, but at Apheriox we like to play casually and in patch 294 you took our way to play and enjoy the game away from us. Wooza 24+ server deserve to be on the standard server list. It is just as much a motivation for new players to join NS2 because some of us simply like to play big games. We even help out rookies whenever we can. We all know UWE has patronized Wooza's servers for a long time, and it's fine. But please just treat us equally. We love this game too. It is not Wooza vs UWE. It's NS2 and that's all there is.
I just have to mention that the NS2 large community isn't quite as "huge" as some are making it seem..
I have never in all my time of NS2 seen more than 3 large servers populated at one time.. Compared to more than two dozen populated small servers in the list with them.
It's quite clear that the vast majority prefers 20-24 count servers even above smaller 12-18 count...
The NS2large community may be big.. But it's not "huge" by any stretch of the word.
All this has really done is clearly differentiate the game modes, something that should've been done a very long time ago. You people are acting like they don't show under the "all" tab and/or players need to input secret console commands to make modded servers show.
I bet there's a large server up and running near full capacity right now.
I just have to mention that the NS2 large community isn't quite as "huge" as some are making it seem..
Like every other server, Woozas lives by random people joining the server. They have various reasons to join the server. Here are some examples:
-They saw a custom map is running and trying the map out (Woozas has over 40+ custom maps available, a dream for a mapper to collect feedback, some of them use this advantage)
-Some of them have just opened the game and want to warmup. They leave after a while.
-Others joining because their favorite server is full. They joining to waste some time and leaving when they see a empty slot on their server.
-Some of these players joining 24+ after hundreds or thousands of hours in NS2 to try something new.
-Others are here to learn new tactics
-Rookies joining the server and see another version of NS2. To not confuse them we always promised to ourselves that we not changing any gameplay so a rookie will have it easier to learn the game and can easily jump to a normal slot server and continue to learn there.
There is many more scenarios of joining a 24+ server.
With some luck, some of these players become a regular because they like what we do.
With the change to hide us in the server browser you taking us away the chance that potential regulars might find their way to our servers. This how our servers will die slowly. Same applies for game modes.
And the argument that large servers are seeded faster is not true. The shadow side is that they empty much faster as soon as many people leave the server or the amount of people is not that high to make a difference between ns2 and ns2large.
To answer your assumption: That ns2large was very populated doesnt mean that we had a big community, we lived by those random joes that joined the servers. We have a small community but we entertain a lot. Especially such who does not belong to an other community. We don't force them to join our community as some others would do...
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2016
@wooza
All your points except "people join cause they want to play 24+" fits for every other server.
So stop tellling us these points are somewhat special.
There is many more scenarios of joining a 24+ server.
Here is one for you:
- New players want to play, dont want to wait for seeding and joining the 1st server with an free slot (and complaining about clientperformance and balance after that)
The argument that a ns2large server empty much faster than normal ones is hillarious btw.
But is kinda interisting that you say your community is small after telling us in countless threads how huge it is.
we lived by those random joes that joined the servers.
And here you have the answer for the last changes. Cause most of your "random joes" where rookies dondt know anything about the game. And cause the nature of your server (the chance of free slot is much higher than on small ones) they joining your server.
Also the argument that NS2large is the new standard is pointless after your comment.
How can something based on random rookies be the standard way to play?
Most players dont know what is awaiting them after they joined your server.
The shadow side is that they empty much faster as soon as many people leave the server or the amount of people is not that high to make a difference between ns2 and ns2large.
.
So above you told us that most players are randoms with different reasons for joining and here you tell us, that most play there cause the slotammount.?
Even you must see this makes no sense.
Im sure most of them leave cause they had a horrible experience.
But im sure you asking everyone before they are pressing the disconnect button why they want todo this.
Like every other server, Woozas lives by random people joining the server.
we lived by those random joes that joined the servers. We don't force them to join our community as some others would do...
If anything having large in the NS2 list is an attempt to mislead or "force" people into large... Since it is a modded game mode that plays nothing like vanilla NS2.
What I find interesting is how you are saying here that your server lives by sucking up unsuspecting people looking for a normal NS2 game.. In the hopes that they will like your cluster**** style of gameplay...
I'd also like to point out that anyone seeking something new can easily filter all servers..
Well goodjob shooting yourself in the foot further, as you're helping to ensure that there wont be new random people or rookies.
I no longer believe a damn thing your community says in regards to caring about this game or even the population of your own damn servers after the immature brigade you have encouraged, lowering the game's rating on Steam from "Very Positive" where it has sat for 3+ years to "Mixed" - a rating that ensures no average steam customer would buy.
Some of these players have experienced thousands of hours of enjoyment purchased cheaply, only to now downvote the game.
It's the most shortsighted thing you could have done as this doesn't hurt or stop the developers - it ruins the experience for every other player and NS2 community that is innocent / isn't involved in this by preventing new players.
You should be ashamed.
From one community member to another : Your community disgusts me.
I just have to mention that the NS2 large community isn't quite as "huge" as some are making it seem..
I have never in all my time of NS2 seen more than 3 large servers populated at one time.. Compared to more than two dozen populated small servers in the list with them.
It's quite clear that the vast majority prefers 20-24 count servers even above smaller 12-18 count...
The NS2large community may be big.. But it's not "huge" by any stretch of the word.
It's the most shortsighted thing you could have done as this doesn't hurt or stop the developers - it ruins the experience for every other player and NS2 community that is innocent / isn't involved in this by preventing new players.
You should be ashamed.
From one community member to another : Your community disgusts me.
I personally don't support negative reviews that have resulted due to recent patches, but there is one thing worth pointing out:
How much responsibility are you taking?
The negative reviews don't happen for no reason at all. Some people have enjoyed NS2 for a decade, and the recent changes forcing them to play the game a certain way are impacting negatively for them. How is voicing their opinion not valid?
The obvious alternative -- god forbid the logic of it -- is for the UWE/CDT/PDT/Holy Spaghetti Monster to actually promote and encourage large server gameplay.
Or not. Up to you. But take responsibility for the results. Here is where we are -- does it start with the players, or the players responding to the changes made by the development team?
Seems pretty clear to me. All that remains if you want to grow NS2: will you listen? Or be stubborn, and let the game continue to shrink.
It is, I have to say, a complete mystery to me. I don't doubt for one minute the intentions of the dev team -- we are all aligned on the same goal: to see NS2 grow and prosper. You and I have different views on how to achieve this, fair enough. In the end, the results speak for themselves: The reduced player counts. The negative reviews. At what point do you start to take notice?
Do you blame others, or take a look inward at your decisions?
I just have to mention that the NS2 large community isn't quite as "huge" as some are making it seem..
I have never in all my time of NS2 seen more than 3 large servers populated at one time.. Compared to more than two dozen populated small servers in the list with them.
It's quite clear that the vast majority prefers 20-24 count servers even above smaller 12-18 count...
The NS2large community may be big.. But it's not "huge" by any stretch of the word.
It's the most shortsighted thing you could have done as this doesn't hurt or stop the developers - it ruins the experience for every other player and NS2 community that is innocent / isn't involved in this by preventing new players.
You should be ashamed.
From one community member to another : Your community disgusts me.
I personally don't support negative reviews that have resulted due to recent patches, but there is one thing worth pointing out:
How much responsibility are you taking?
The negative reviews don't happen for no reason at all. Some people have enjoyed NS2 for a decade, and the recent changes forcing them to play the game a certain way are impacting negatively for them. How is voicing their opinion not valid?
The obvious alternative -- god forbid the logic of it -- is for the UWE/CDT/PDT/Holy Spaghetti Monster to actually promote and encourage large server gameplay.
Or not. Up to you. But take responsibility for the results. Here is where we are -- does it start with the players, or the players responding to the changes made by the development team?
Seems pretty clear to me. All that remains if you want to grow NS2: will you listen? Or be stubborn, and let the game continue to shrink.
It is, I have to say, a complete mystery to me. I don't doubt for one minute the intentions of the dev team -- we are all aligned on the same goal: to see NS2 grow and prosper. You and I have different views on how to achieve this, fair enough. In the end, the results speak for themselves: The reduced player counts. The negative reviews. At what point do you start to take notice?
Do you blame others, or take a look inward at your decisions?
What I see is completely full American servers, a filling French server and a seeding Russian server. People don't like to seed, its not news. They open their server browser, see its full and either queue or quit the game. Its not an endorsement of large servers other than large servers allow them to join.
The reviews are amazing by the way. "Game is amazing, but I'm being persecuted, therefore horrible game!" Get over yourselves. Nobody is forcing anybody. The server is still there for you to join. Your server isn't filling? Maybe your community wasn't as large as you thought. I mean sure, there is definitely a loss of players from the large servers, but guess what? The cause is the same as the other sized servers. People (in general) don't seed. That's why you often see either empty or full servers. This is the failure of UWE since release. Not some silly browser change.
Also, I don't see how you "don't personally support negative reviews due to recent patches" but are at the same time completely endorsing it in this post.
Comments
Jeez. Just have a pop-up - "This is a custom game mode, do you still wish to join?".
Look, at some point you have to get it in your head that not everyone wants to play the game the way you want to play it.
People who prefer small, play small.
People who prefer large, play large.
It's pretty simple. Large servers do not 'vacuum' up small server players. That implies these players are stupid robots, which is pretty insulting. Some players will play large and only large, and we've seen this with the reduction in total player base since the recent patches.
Maybe you'd like it that way? That's nice, fortunately you're not in control. If you were, NS2 would be dead now.
So, once and for all -- Large NS2 is NS2. Large NS2 will always be here. Large NS2 is popular. Large NS2 keeps NS2 alive. Large NS2 is good for rookies to learn. Finally, none of this is opinion -- it's not a matter of perspective, it's a matter of facts by just looking at a) server stats and b) posts here by both rookies and veterans.
And, it has to be said again, people who prefer large servers don't come on here and insist that small server players join large. They don't insult them for playing a different game. They don't rally against them and try to shut them down. In fact, all large servers players want to do is play large server games without people like you telling them how to play the game. With all due respect, your posts do nothing more than prove that it's the toxic nature of players like you that are killing this game.
It ends here. Enough. Either you're with NS2 -- which includes Large -- or against it. And if it's the latter, please, log off and don't come back.
So i cant see "the proof" here.
The 42 slot server is up and people playing on it:
http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/servers/1750031/85.195.247.117:27015
This looks everything else than dead.
Peak playercount was still higher this April than last year April.
For me it looks more like:
NS2 playercount doesnt drop that much during the time the 42 slot server was not up.
But it look like everyone is interpreting the charts different and see only what they want to see.
Im sure the PDT has more neutral Data than ours based on emotions.
We are also 50 players down on average since 294. Hmmm... 1+1=?
That's 1/6 of our community.
The extensive analysis I gave in the previous thread shows clearly what has happened.
Why am I even responding?
Im sure you responding cause you have more psychological tricks in the pipeline to disguise your oppinions as facts.
So if someone is against NS2large hes against NS2 now, this is hillarious.
Here they are mate
It just doesnt seem right that the devs of my favorite game get to decide which servers deserve the influx of new players and which servers don't. The playerbase in NS2 isn't too strong and we shouldn't cause a divide by excluding a HUGE part of the community from the standard server list. Yes, I am talking about Wooza, and yes it is my favorite server, and no I am no noob because just because I like to play Wooza. I love this game for the same reason UWE does, but at Apheriox we like to play casually and in patch 294 you took our way to play and enjoy the game away from us. Wooza 24+ server deserve to be on the standard server list. It is just as much a motivation for new players to join NS2 because some of us simply like to play big games. We even help out rookies whenever we can. We all know UWE has patronized Wooza's servers for a long time, and it's fine. But please just treat us equally. We love this game too. It is not Wooza vs UWE. It's NS2 and that's all there is.
I have never in all my time of NS2 seen more than 3 large servers populated at one time.. Compared to more than two dozen populated small servers in the list with them.
It's quite clear that the vast majority prefers 20-24 count servers even above smaller 12-18 count...
The NS2large community may be big.. But it's not "huge" by any stretch of the word.
All this has really done is clearly differentiate the game modes, something that should've been done a very long time ago. You people are acting like they don't show under the "all" tab and/or players need to input secret console commands to make modded servers show.
I bet there's a large server up and running near full capacity right now.
Nobody are joining the large servers now compared to two weeks ago.
There are large servers and its NEVER at full capacity
Like every other server, Woozas lives by random people joining the server. They have various reasons to join the server. Here are some examples:
-They saw a custom map is running and trying the map out (Woozas has over 40+ custom maps available, a dream for a mapper to collect feedback, some of them use this advantage)
-Some of them have just opened the game and want to warmup. They leave after a while.
-Others joining because their favorite server is full. They joining to waste some time and leaving when they see a empty slot on their server.
-Some of these players joining 24+ after hundreds or thousands of hours in NS2 to try something new.
-Others are here to learn new tactics
-Rookies joining the server and see another version of NS2. To not confuse them we always promised to ourselves that we not changing any gameplay so a rookie will have it easier to learn the game and can easily jump to a normal slot server and continue to learn there.
There is many more scenarios of joining a 24+ server.
With some luck, some of these players become a regular because they like what we do.
With the change to hide us in the server browser you taking us away the chance that potential regulars might find their way to our servers. This how our servers will die slowly. Same applies for game modes.
And the argument that large servers are seeded faster is not true. The shadow side is that they empty much faster as soon as many people leave the server or the amount of people is not that high to make a difference between ns2 and ns2large.
To answer your assumption: That ns2large was very populated doesnt mean that we had a big community, we lived by those random joes that joined the servers. We have a small community but we entertain a lot. Especially such who does not belong to an other community. We don't force them to join our community as some others would do...
All your points except "people join cause they want to play 24+" fits for every other server.
So stop tellling us these points are somewhat special.
Here is one for you:
- New players want to play, dont want to wait for seeding and joining the 1st server with an free slot (and complaining about clientperformance and balance after that)
The argument that a ns2large server empty much faster than normal ones is hillarious btw.
But is kinda interisting that you say your community is small after telling us in countless threads how huge it is.
And here you have the answer for the last changes. Cause most of your "random joes" where rookies dondt know anything about the game. And cause the nature of your server (the chance of free slot is much higher than on small ones) they joining your server.
Also the argument that NS2large is the new standard is pointless after your comment.
How can something based on random rookies be the standard way to play?
Most players dont know what is awaiting them after they joined your server.
So above you told us that most players are randoms with different reasons for joining and here you tell us, that most play there cause the slotammount.?
Even you must see this makes no sense.
Im sure most of them leave cause they had a horrible experience.
But im sure you asking everyone before they are pressing the disconnect button why they want todo this.
If anything having large in the NS2 list is an attempt to mislead or "force" people into large... Since it is a modded game mode that plays nothing like vanilla NS2.
What I find interesting is how you are saying here that your server lives by sucking up unsuspecting people looking for a normal NS2 game.. In the hopes that they will like your cluster**** style of gameplay...
I'd also like to point out that anyone seeking something new can easily filter all servers..
I no longer believe a damn thing your community says in regards to caring about this game or even the population of your own damn servers after the immature brigade you have encouraged, lowering the game's rating on Steam from "Very Positive" where it has sat for 3+ years to "Mixed" - a rating that ensures no average steam customer would buy.
Some of these players have experienced thousands of hours of enjoyment purchased cheaply, only to now downvote the game.
It's the most shortsighted thing you could have done as this doesn't hurt or stop the developers - it ruins the experience for every other player and NS2 community that is innocent / isn't involved in this by preventing new players.
You should be ashamed.
From one community member to another : Your community disgusts me.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=680133981
180 on 24<, 51 on Large.
That's more than 25% of the community. Seems pretty big to me. Or are you going to ignore facts again?
I personally don't support negative reviews that have resulted due to recent patches, but there is one thing worth pointing out:
How much responsibility are you taking?
The negative reviews don't happen for no reason at all. Some people have enjoyed NS2 for a decade, and the recent changes forcing them to play the game a certain way are impacting negatively for them. How is voicing their opinion not valid?
The obvious alternative -- god forbid the logic of it -- is for the UWE/CDT/PDT/Holy Spaghetti Monster to actually promote and encourage large server gameplay.
Or not. Up to you. But take responsibility for the results. Here is where we are -- does it start with the players, or the players responding to the changes made by the development team?
Seems pretty clear to me. All that remains if you want to grow NS2: will you listen? Or be stubborn, and let the game continue to shrink.
It is, I have to say, a complete mystery to me. I don't doubt for one minute the intentions of the dev team -- we are all aligned on the same goal: to see NS2 grow and prosper. You and I have different views on how to achieve this, fair enough. In the end, the results speak for themselves: The reduced player counts. The negative reviews. At what point do you start to take notice?
Do you blame others, or take a look inward at your decisions?
What I see is completely full American servers, a filling French server and a seeding Russian server. People don't like to seed, its not news. They open their server browser, see its full and either queue or quit the game. Its not an endorsement of large servers other than large servers allow them to join.
The reviews are amazing by the way. "Game is amazing, but I'm being persecuted, therefore horrible game!" Get over yourselves. Nobody is forcing anybody. The server is still there for you to join. Your server isn't filling? Maybe your community wasn't as large as you thought. I mean sure, there is definitely a loss of players from the large servers, but guess what? The cause is the same as the other sized servers. People (in general) don't seed. That's why you often see either empty or full servers. This is the failure of UWE since release. Not some silly browser change.
Also, I don't see how you "don't personally support negative reviews due to recent patches" but are at the same time completely endorsing it in this post.
Removed my own post as it's not contributing anything, just me venting.
The topic of this thread was the idea behind game mode segregation.
While there were a few interesting posts about the actual topic of this thread most posts were about if NS2Large is a custom game mode or not.
To make it short per UWE's current definition it is custom game mode .