Update 297: Shadow Fade Released!

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  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AUMembers, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Posts: 877 Advanced user
    Definately think PwrSurge can be OP. as others have stated about potential to stopping a Skulk biting res, it is also very powerful in defending PGs. I know PGs dont have high health, but 2 chipped skulks can't grind a gate as easily as before as both could die or be very low health from the surge, then a marine with a primed grenade jump through a gate. I think gate grinding is going to be harder now.

    Also spawn with Grenade is bad on the basis that you could spawn run to the gate in base prime and phase, denying aliens the ability to grind effectively.

    Overall I love the changes, and will reserve judgement sfter a few more games. Also PSyrge bad for rookie aliens as they might just ferl they have randomly died whilst doing what they are told (bite res).
    Author of a ePaper manual for NS2, now also a steam guide
    Co-wrote the Marine EXO Suit Protocol
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    Today I had nanosheild and overcharge both used on me while I tried to kill a phasegate. It was expensive for the marine commander, but it saved the gate. Overcharge hurt me and slowed down my rate of biting, and nanosheild made it so I did less damage. It was just enough for a single marine to get to the phasegate and kill me with 1-2 bites left on the phasegate.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    FrozenZavaro
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    rantology wrote: »
    Just want to chime in, we did originally plan to have powersurge cause a "wind up" animation and sound to give aliens a short window to respond, and I think that is still likely to happen. We just did not have time to get it in for the initial release- so bear with us. Thanks for the feedback!

    Maybe an update every two weeks would suit you guys better? Please stop putting features into the game if you consider them half-finished. (Looking at calcified babbler eggs here.) Yes, you can fix it next week, but that means we have to play with a half-feature for a week, and after that week you likely introduce the next one. :\
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    migalskiAlitecaperpThe_Welsh_Wizard
  • _INTER__INTER_ Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-08-08 Member: 68392Posts: 822 Advanced user
    Maybe an update every two weeks would suit you guys better? Please stop putting features into the game if you consider them half-finished. (Looking at calcified babbler eggs here.) Yes, you can fix it next week, but that means we have to play with a half-feature for a week, and after that week you likely introduce the next one. :\
    To some people a feature is always a half-feature. It would be the same even if the updates came every two weeks. But if we get the changes every week, we can atleast give appropriate feedback and make it easier for them to balance (overbuffing or -nerfing is corrected faster and therefor balances earlier).
    Warforce17 wrote: »
    RapGod wrote: »
    matso wrote: »
    --> pistol time axe time welder time riflebutt time
    Wyzcrakaeroripper
  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Posts: 920 mod
    Same argument applies. There will always be a balance. If they placate requests for further delay, they take grief from others unhappy about releases being too large and too delayed.

    To some people a feature is always a half-feature, and to some people a delay is always a half-delay.

    I'm satisfied with their release cadence, FWIW.
    TGNS Portal | NS2 side-by-side game viewer
    IronHorse wrote: »
    TG's win or lose mod that replaces the concede function is the best of both worlds and should be official.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    edited May 2016
    That's what the PT team is for, not the general public.
    Just to follow up on this a bit..

    We test for bugs, pretty much exclusively.
    We still definitely give feedback for new features, and if time permits and the feedback is loud enough changes do get made.

    But you have to understand, with fast development cycles like this we are talking about testing multiple features the night before it gets released and any feedback on a mechanic or feature - while it is taken into account by the developers - by and large it is typically not enough to prevent it from shipping. A large reason for this is again because of the fast development cycle (and the UWEhotfix applied to servers), they want to take feedback from all of you first before being able to quickly revert or adjust.

    So, expect the PT team to mostly spot and help prevent the bugs at this point, with the users such as yourself being the real heartbeat on what is desired and what works.
    As mentioned, feel free to join our discord to be notified in the announcement channel when we do public testing.


    p.s. Even larger dev cycles don't guarantee PT feedback is assuredly adhered to. (looking at you 4 minute Onos on release...)
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    @remi @IronHorse Sorry, I thought you still do feedback stuff. Does this mean the current dev team relies entirely on community feedback right now? Because throwing features at the wall and seeing what sticks doesn't seem like good practice with an already finished product.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    But you have to understand, with fast development cycles like this we are talking about testing multiple features the night before it gets released and any feedback on a mechanic or feature - while it is taken into account by the developers - by and large it is typically not enough to prevent it from shipping. A large reason for this is again because of the fast development cycle (and the UWEhotfix applied to servers), they want to take feedback from all of you first before being able to quickly revert or adjust.

    So, expect the PT team to mostly spot and help prevent the bugs at this point, with the users such as yourself being the real heartbeat on what is desired and what works.
    As mentioned, feel free to join our discord to be notified in the announcement channel when we do public testing.

    Frankly, this still sounds like you need longer development cycles.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    p.s. Even larger dev cycles don't guarantee PT feedback is assuredly adhered to. (looking at you 4 minute Onos on release...)

    Well then... start listening to your PTs?

    And thanks for the offers, but at the moment I'm not interested in joining your playtest team.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    caperp
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    edited May 2016
    @F0rdPrefect
    IronHorse wrote: »
    We still definitely give feedback for new features

    and any feedback on a mechanic or feature

    while it is taken into account by the developers

    So, expect the PT team to mostly spot and help prevent the bugs at this point

    It's not a black and white scenario. They do not "entirely" rely on community feedback right now, as I mentioned.. just "primarily".
    We can help make a planned feature better, but we have less impact on whether a feature will still ship.
    Keep in mind we are also a small sample size, comparatively.

    The offer wasn't to join our team.. it was to play games with us on builds yet to be released.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    nades cost 2$ each but you cant buy 2 of them? not even for 4$...
    This was perfect opportunity to let marines mix and match them maybe 1 cluster 1 pulse etc
    But not able to hold even two of the same type was really a bummer in this update also how do i remove the healthbars popping up everywhere?
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    RadimaX wrote: »
    nades cost 2$ each but you cant buy 2 of them? not even for 4$...
    This was perfect opportunity to let marines mix and match them maybe 1 cluster 1 pulse etc
    But not able to hold even two of the same type was really a bummer in this update also how do i remove the healthbars popping up everywhere?

    You can turn on server side confirmed his in ns2+ for now to hide health bars.
    RadimaX
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    RadimaX wrote: »
    nades cost 2$ each but you cant buy 2 of them? not even for 4$...
    This was perfect opportunity to let marines mix and match them maybe 1 cluster 1 pulse etc

    That would be a nightmare with the current weapon switch system, since you'd need to have a total of 7 weapon slot binds in order to accommodate everything.

    As in *wink wink nudge nudge* we need dropdown selections like how Valve did them.
    Post edited by IeptBarakat on
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @F0rdPrefect
    IronHorse wrote: »
    We still definitely give feedback for new features

    and any feedback on a mechanic or feature

    while it is taken into account by the developers

    So, expect the PT team to mostly spot and help prevent the bugs at this point

    It's not a black and white scenario. They do not "entirely" rely on community feedback right now, as I mentioned.. just "primarily".
    We can help make a planned feature better, but we have less impact on whether a feature will still ship.
    Keep in mind we are also a small sample size, comparatively.

    The offer wasn't to join our team.. it was to play games with us on builds yet to be released.

    Sorry, I should have differentiated more there. I don't think "primarily" is a big improvement over "entirely", though.

    And I know; I was referring to the offers to join discord and remi's invitation to send an application. Bad wording :)
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    IronHorse
  • GoldenGolden Members, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Silver, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31169Posts: 426 Advanced user
    shouldn't unfinished features be put into the extension system so they aren't limited to weekly updates? i'm still not quite sure what the point of the extension system is, is it being used currently?

    +1
    Me9aWalsamigalskicaperp
  • yodayoda Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-11-27 Member: 23619Posts: 191 Advanced user
    Looks really nice, great job!
  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    Since the recent focus has been on improving the commander experience, can we please re-look at whips, never understood their nerf from being all to deflect ALL grenades down to deflecting none at all!

    Why wasn't a happy medium looked into i.e. Whips now block 33% of grenades.

    This brings back their usefulness in hive defense without overpowering them and helps alleviate grenade spam issues on large scale servers.
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
  • MartigenMartigen AustraliaMembers, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2714Posts: 784 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    My feedback:
    • Corpse fade time -- not really noticed a difference... as others have stated (other thread?) still seems too short. I think the difference however may be that the increased delay is the time it takes the effect to run? I'd like to see a 1 second delay before the effect even starts. That way, for eg, a skulk killed mid-air might hit the floor then start to dissolve. Or a node plays its death animation and then dissolves etc. Can we try a 1 sec delay before it triggers?

    • Overcharge -- LOVE IT. Reminds of NS1 Electricity! Just got two skulk kills hitting a power node they were biting. They were quite surprised :) I think price and cooldown is fair. Also, right now it uses a pulse grenade effect? Would love to see a new effect of electricity arcing out and screaming 'STOP BITING MY SHIT!'.

      I've yet to try Rupture and Contamination changes, but as a comm who likes to use both, I love the ideas. Certainly should help accelerate stand-off end-games too (and I did always wonder why rupture didn't bile, it makes so much sense that it does).

      -Edit: just realised it's contamination that biles. That might be too easy since you can just drop it anywhere, whereas rupture needs contamination. So, if hitting a marine base or structure you need to wait a second or two before you can rupture/bile after the contamination spreads a little. Also, the reason I always thought rupture should bile is because it spews bile out and covers everything, including marines and blurring their vision. Contamination's death could spew parasites to everything in range, so the two abilities could be swapped -- it also fits with the fact that contamination reveals marines standing on it, and so Contamination as an ability in addition to spreading contamination could throw out parasites, like a boosted (and in a novel way) alien-scan equivalent.

    • Grenades -- Don't love it :/ Maybe I'm just used to having two nades, but it's almost not worth the effort to buy them now. Also, don't agree with the spawning with them if you die with them -- every other weapon drops: main weapons, welders, mines. It's inconsistent and doesn't make sense. Just make nades drop if you die and haven't used them.

    • Exos -- feels good with the increased speed and ROF increase. I do agree (at least, I think someone said this somewhere) it makes it easier to kill skulks though. I'm also disappointed it means there really is no value on a 2nd CC or more now for marines. Yeah, you can try and deny a techpoint or use one as a backup, but it's so different from the model that tech points are *so* important that are required for an upgrade path, as with aliens.

      That said, a claw exo never really made sense, so perhaps multiple CCs could confer other benefits. Two suggestions: just as biomass increases alien health, perhaps each CC confers a small health/armor bonus to marines? Other advantages could be: -15% reduce in obs beacon time per CC, so holding 3 techpoints gives you almost a third faster beacon time.

      In an alternate reality, I'd love to see how it plays to have each CC confer another level of Armor/Wep upgrades, and with each level being more potent. Eg: W1 15%, W2 30%, W3 45%. But with just one CC you're limited to W1/A1. Planting a second CC automatically gives you W2/A2, no research time required if an Arms is up (or it could require research, but cheaper). This would: a) provide for new strats, like trying to secure and hold a second tech point early in order to get a 30% W/A bonus, and b) help end stalemates quicker as 45% at 3 tech points is a heck of a boost.

      And really, the game was supposed to be about fighting over nodes and techpoints, for both sides, not just aliens and this would give a real reason for marines to grab and hold onto more than one CC.
    stf // martigen
    woozaDrNo
  • rantologyrantology Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Posts: 1,493 Advanced user
    Just an update on the Powersurge situation- we spent some time discussing it and decided giving it a wind-up time might not be the best route to go (if you make it avoidable the ability will feel bad for the marine comm and potentially become a noob-trap). Instead in the next patch we're decreasing the damage Powersurge from 50 to 25 (we'll still be keeping an eye on it).
    image
    WyzcrakVetinari
  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    Martigen wrote: »
    My feedback:
    • Corpse fade time -- not really noticed a difference... as others have stated (other thread?) still seems too short. I think the difference however may be that the increased delay is the time it takes the effect to run? I'd like to see a 1 second delay before the effect even starts. That way, for eg, a skulk killed mid-air might hit the floor then start to dissolve. Or a node plays its death animation and then dissolves etc. Can we try a 1 sec delay before it triggers?

      Not bothered about.

    • Overcharge -- LOVE IT. Reminds of NS1 Electricity! Just got two skulk kills hitting a power node they were biting. They were quite surprised :) I think price and cooldown is fair. Also, right now it uses a pulse grenade effect? Would love to see a new effect of electricity arcing out and screaming 'STOP BITING MY ****!'.

      I've yet to try Rupture and Contamination changes, but as a comm who likes to use both, I love the ideas. Certainly should help accelerate stand-off end-games too (and I did always wonder why rupture didn't bile, it makes so much sense that it does).

      Overcharge is great, EMP like effects might make this too O.P. though? Aliens should be rewarded for going for vital structures not punished, its the marines fault for being sloppy not aliens.

      -Edit: just realised it's contamination that biles. That might be too easy since you can just drop it anywhere, whereas rupture needs contamination. So, if hitting a marine base or structure you need to wait a second or two before you can rupture/bile after the contamination spreads a little. Also, the reason I always thought rupture should bile is because it spews bile out and covers everything, including marines and blurring their vision. Contamination's death could spew parasites to everything in range, so the two abilities could be swapped -- it also fits with the fact that contamination reveals marines standing on it, and so Contamination as an ability in addition to spreading contamination could throw out parasites, like a boosted (and in a novel way) alien-scan equivalent.

    • Grenades -- Don't love it :/ Maybe I'm just used to having two nades, but it's almost not worth the effort to buy them now. Also, don't agree with the spawning with them if you die with them -- every other weapon drops: main weapons, welders, mines. It's inconsistent and doesn't make sense. Just make nades drop if you die and haven't used them.

      Agreed, make grenades droppable, bring back 2 grenades and revert to old damage if damage value has been changed to compensate for 1.

    • Exos -- feels good with the increased speed and ROF increase. I do agree (at least, I think someone said this somewhere) it makes it easier to kill skulks though. I'm also disappointed it means there really is no value on a 2nd CC or more now for marines. Yeah, you can try and deny a techpoint or use one as a backup, but it's so different from the model that tech points are *so* important that are required for an upgrade path, as with aliens.

      That said, a claw exo never really made sense, so perhaps multiple CCs could confer other benefits. Two suggestions: just as biomass increases alien health, perhaps each CC confers a small health/armor bonus to marines? Other advantages could be: -15% reduce in obs beacon time per CC, so holding 3 techpoints gives you almost a third faster beacon time.

      Can't comment on.

      In an alternate reality, I'd love to see how it plays to have each CC confer another level of Armor/Wep upgrades, and with each level being more potent. Eg: W1 15%, W2 30%, W3 45%. But with just one CC you're limited to W1/A1. Planting a second CC automatically gives you W2/A2, no research time required if an Arms is up (or it could require research, but cheaper). This would: a) provide for new strats, like trying to secure and hold a second tech point early in order to get a 30% W/A bonus, and b) help end stalemates quicker as 45% at 3 tech points is a heck of a boost.

      And really, the game was supposed to be about fighting over nodes and techpoints, for both sides, not just aliens and this would give a real reason for marines to grab and hold onto more than one CC.


    Nice points.
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    wooza
  • MartigenMartigen AustraliaMembers, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2714Posts: 784 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    rantology wrote: »
    Just an update on the Powersurge situation- we spent some time discussing it and decided giving it a wind-up time might not be the best route to go (if you make it avoidable the ability will feel bad for the marine comm and potentially become a noob-trap). Instead in the next patch we're decreasing the damage Powersurge from 50 to 25 (we'll still be keeping an eye on it).
    FWIW I only got two kills because both skulks were wounded. Also, the cool-down time prevented me from actually saving the node from the skulk's buddies. Although it's only been a few games, I don't think it needs adjusting yet. A damage reduction would require a reduction in cost and/or cool-down time, otherwise it defeats the purpose.

    EDIT: Yojimbo, what EMP effect? I think you may have mis-read me -- I was talking about the _visual_ effect, nothing more. I think right now it just spawns a pulse grenade explosion effect, it'd be cool if it had its own unique visuals.
    stf // martigen
  • rantologyrantology Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Posts: 1,493 Advanced user
    Martigen wrote: »
    rantology wrote: »
    Just an update on the Powersurge situation- we spent some time discussing it and decided giving it a wind-up time might not be the best route to go (if you make it avoidable the ability will feel bad for the marine comm and potentially become a noob-trap). Instead in the next patch we're decreasing the damage Powersurge from 50 to 25 (we'll still be keeping an eye on it).
    FWIW I only got two kills because both skulks were wounded. Also, the cool-down time prevented me from actually saving the node from the skulk's buddies. Although it's only been a few games, I don't think it needs adjusting yet. A damage reduction would require a reduction in cost and/or cool-down time, otherwise it defeats the purpose.

    EDIT: Yojimbo, what EMP effect? I think you may have mis-read me -- I was talking about the _visual_ effect, nothing more. I think right now it just spawns a pulse grenade explosion effect, it'd be cool if it had its own unique visuals.


    To clarify, our main concern with Powersurge is that currently it can make phasegates a little to dangerous to try and take down- the damage output from powersurge combined with a sacrificial marine with primed-grenade in hand makes for a lot of unavoidable burst damage. We're trying to focus more on powersurge being a delay tactic / soft deterrent (the energy sap is alone can be scary).
    image
  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    Martigen wrote: »
    rantology wrote: »
    Just an update on the Powersurge situation- we spent some time discussing it and decided giving it a wind-up time might not be the best route to go (if you make it avoidable the ability will feel bad for the marine comm and potentially become a noob-trap). Instead in the next patch we're decreasing the damage Powersurge from 50 to 25 (we'll still be keeping an eye on it).
    FWIW I only got two kills because both skulks were wounded. Also, the cool-down time prevented me from actually saving the node from the skulk's buddies. Although it's only been a few games, I don't think it needs adjusting yet. A damage reduction would require a reduction in cost and/or cool-down time, otherwise it defeats the purpose.

    EDIT: Yojimbo, what EMP effect? I think you may have mis-read me -- I was talking about the _visual_ effect, nothing more. I think right now it just spawns a pulse grenade explosion effect, it'd be cool if it had its own unique visuals.

    The surge drains energy from the aliens does it not?

    Power Surge Changes – “Overcharge“:
    Power Surge is now researchable at the Command Station for 15 team resources and needs 45 seconds to be researched.
    Power Surge costs 5 team resources and has a cooldown of 20 seconds
    Does not work at Command Stations and Power Nodes
    Applying power surge is now easier as it auto selects a building close to where you clicked (similar to Nanoshield)
    New Effects:
    On powered structures:
    Deals 50 healthpoint damage to nearby aliens
    Lowers the energy regeneration rate of nearby aliens for 5 seconds
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
  • MartigenMartigen AustraliaMembers, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2714Posts: 784 Advanced user
    rantology wrote: »
    To clarify, our main concern with Powersurge is that currently it can make phasegates a little to dangerous to try and take down- the damage output from powersurge combined with a sacrificial marine with primed-grenade in hand makes for a lot of unavoidable burst damage. We're trying to focus more on powersurge being a delay tactic / soft deterrent (the energy sap is alone can be scary).
    That's a fair point. Perhaps a) add the electricity visuals coz, like, OVERCHARGE and b) make that 50 points be damage over time, over 5 seconds?

    stf // martigen
  • BacillusBacillus Members Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Posts: 2,774 Advanced user
    This is completely out of any recent gameplay experience or such, but could the power surge work somehow like this:
      * Applies an electric charge to a building, and the building remains charged for a short while (20 seconds for example to reflect the effect on unpowered buildings) * There is a brief charge up time to allow any alien to move away from the building before it becomes overcharged * Once the building is overcharged, any aliens standing/entering the range of the charge will be zapped for a considerable damage and possibly other harmful effects. The damage value would likely be something enough to kill a skulk and harm heavier lifeforms, but not lethal past the skulk as only damage source. * Once the zap happens, the charge is gone and the building becomes harmless again

    In practise the charge forces aliens to quickly spread out a bit, figure out how to remove the overcharge and then engage the building again. Good ideas might be using a beefier lifeform to tank the charge or even using something like hydra as a sacrificial conductor. It's also possible to sacrifice a single skulk, allowing any follow up to fight without danger. If the whole team just stays in range, they'll all get zapped and take heavy losses.

    For aliens there's a pretty dynamic risk management: You can simply fall back and watch the charge dissipate over time, wasting the marine resources and putting the spell on cooldown. This is very viable option for a lone skulk for example. Meanwhile on bigger attacks aliens can still choose which lifeform they'll risk and when and how that happens. The faster the aliens decide and execute their plan to remove the charge, the less time marines buy with the overcharge.

    For marines, the overcharge still generates extra time as aliens the aliens are likely to spread out to avoid getting multiple lifeforms zapped. It's not going to fend off an organized alien team on its own, but it can prevent a single skulk from destroying a building for the duration and delay a bigger team for some seconds at least.

    There's quite a lot of variables to fine tune the effect for desired outcome. You can variate between energy drain and damage to encourage different lifeforms to tank the charge. You can also for example require alien to stay briefly in range before the zap happens to reduce the volatility of the effect and avoid accidental zappings and also force the aliens to keep their distance a short while longer before they can re-enter the radius as a team.

    The one thing I don't particularly like is that somebody still needs to be the sacrifical player and tank the charge. Sometimes it might be skulk at the cost of its life or so. It creates a bit of conflict between effective teamwork and sacrificial player's fun factor, but I guess it's still a more fun option than simply getting zapped with a direct damage burst out from nowhere.

    And to be clear, this is thrown here completely without clue about the finer details of the present implementation and what's going on around it. I just played around with the idea back in NS1 electification and I felt it might be a possible implementation here too. Also, I sketched up this stuff pretty quick, so feel free to ask for clarification.
    Wyzcrakaeroripper
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    Brainstorm idea, not necessarily simple, clear, or good, but definitely an idea

    I just thought of using a (%current effective hp) damage type. This way the efficacy of the attack is still there for phase gate situations and plenty of other stuff, but the attack wouldn't kill a skulk on an RT with 10 HP after he wins a fight.

    I'm thinking 10% current hp would be pretty strong for 5 res when there's a fresh onos and fade on the PG. Or it could have some more difficult formula where it does 50% current to a skulk, but more of a flat damage to higher HP lifeforms + a smaller %.

    And there's still the VERY STRONG attack speed slow.
    mattji104
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