Update 297: Shadow Fade Released!

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Comments

  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    Frozen wrote: »
    I'm pretty afraid of the power surge change making res-defense far too easy for marines. Now I don't have to kill a skulk, I just need to get him below 50 hp, and that's far too easy.

    What's RT kill time for a skulk from full hp? Can't the skulk get hit by 2 power surges in that time such that he literally can't kill an RT without regen or carapace?

    Phase gates are a concern too, but the res game is majorly effected here.

    edit: Happy to see balance changes and I hope this one works out better than I'm thinking, it's not particularly cheap as it is so

    Two power surges are 10 res - that's the cost of an RT. I'd say dying as a skulk for that is almost worth it.

    Almost.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • develdevel Members Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Posts: 352 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    What's RT kill time for a skulk from full hp? Can't the skulk get hit by 2 power surges in that time such that he literally can't kill an RT without regen or carapace?

    About 2% per bite, around 0.5 seconds for bite. So, can be very close.

    Bad resbiting is one of the main causes of the alien problems. Now it's even more hilarious.
    Bicsum
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Members Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Posts: 258 Advanced user
    Great patch.

    I just tested the exo changes and they feel solid. The mobility boost is nice, and the rate of fire/damage changes reward accuracy without really lowering the exo's overall damage output ceiling by a significant margin. I was still able to get multiple onos to retreat despite the reduction from heavy to normal damage, but they definitely had more to think about in terms of counterattacking since they knew that I couldn't burst as hard as I used to.

    The contamination changes make sense and will allow contamination cysts to function as turtle-busters more effectively. This won't add dynamism because it doesn't introduce any new comeback mechanisms, but it should help stop games that continue well past their expiration date.

    I didn't get to see the health bars due to having server-side blood enabled in NS2+, but I'd prefer to have them disabled, anyway. Will there be an option to disable them once that incompatibility is fixed? I vastly prefer damage numbers. A visual aid is probably really useful for new players who don't have lifeform hp/armor totals in working memory, but numerical feedback is instantaneously useful to me, and I don't want to spend time looking for other visual indicators in the middle of combat.

    Of all the changes, I'm probably most interested in the power surge tweaks in terms of the meta, but I didn't get to experience them in the round I played. If the AoE damage ends up being too much of a problem in terms of making gate-grinding prohibitively difficult, perhaps you should keep the energy-draining EMP effect but introduce burst-pushback instead of damage. In other words, push the aliens off of the gate by a few meters (onos excepted), or at a distance relative to their "weight" (i.e., lerks and skulks get the most pushback, then gorges, then fades, then onos). This would create an opening for marines, and it would synergize with the grenade changes (e.g., prime a grenade > phase).

    I'm thinking that you might want to tweak the rupture change. Rupture was underused but effective, and skulk parasites should be emphasized at every turn. If you're dead-set on keeping some parasite mechanism tied to rupture, here are some options:
    1. Give rupture a % chance to parasite instead of making it a sure thing.
    2. Give rupture a weaker parasite effect that only lasts for 10-15 seconds.
    3. Give rupture a different parasite effect that "snapshots" the number of marines in the radius with some kind of alternate "ghosted" parasite icon, but which does not track the marines after they leave their initial positions.
    Wyzcrak
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    Gotta give props to the artists, the Shadow Fade is beautiful and I hope it sells well enough to hurry the Shadow Onos along.
    Then you can start working on Shadow Hives, Drifters, and Structures. :trollface:
    RevanCoranaChrisStarkVetinari
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Posts: 2,689 admin
    I didn't get to see the health bars due to having server-side blood enabled in NS2+, but I'd prefer to have them disabled, anyway. Will there be an option to disable them once that incompatibility is fixed? I vastly prefer damage numbers. A visual aid is probably really useful for new players who don't have lifeform hp/armor totals in working memory, but numerical feedback is instantaneously useful to me, and I don't want to spend time looking for other visual indicators in the middle of combat.
    Not sure on this. I had considered making it tied to the damage numbers and have it be either-or, but I feel like there may some out there who would want to turn them both on. The NS2+ numerical nameplates does work on this, if you want to reduce the visual clutter.
    I'm thinking that you might want to tweak the rupture change. Rupture was underused but effective, and skulk parasites should be emphasized at every turn. If you're dead-set on keeping some parasite mechanism tied to rupture, here are some options:
    1. Give rupture a % chance to parasite instead of making it a sure thing.
    2. Give rupture a weaker parasite effect that only lasts for 10-15 seconds.
    3. Give rupture a different parasite effect that "snapshots" the number of marines in the radius with some kind of alternate "ghosted" parasite icon, but which does not track the marines after they leave their initial positions.
    Neat ideas. I think having it be a % chance to parasite with the % being based on if you get blinded by it and proximity to it could be good, if we find the ability as is is too OP. It could make ground marines feel it is more "fair" since they would actually be able to react to it / plan for it to better their chances.
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
    Wyzcrak
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Members Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Posts: 258 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Please, don't balance via chances. RNG is not good in this game.
    Percentages don't imply total randomness; it depends on what determines the % chance. Pure RNG is one determinant, but other (predictable) variables can be chained to modify it. For instance, you could base the % chance off of a marine's physical proximity to the center of the cyst. The chance would therefore be determined by geometry, and could drop off predictably as a marine stands further from the cyst. This would - as remi suggested - enable marines to "plan for it to better their chances" (i.e., position themselves accordingly).

    I prefer the third "alternate rupture parasite" idea I presented, but it's probably the weirdest one.

    Vetinari
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Posts: 2,689 admin
    Bicsum wrote: »
    remi wrote: »
    I'm thinking that you might want to tweak the rupture change. Rupture was underused but effective, and skulk parasites should be emphasized at every turn. If you're dead-set on keeping some parasite mechanism tied to rupture, here are some options:
    1. Give rupture a % chance to parasite instead of making it a sure thing.
    2. Give rupture a weaker parasite effect that only lasts for 10-15 seconds.
    3. Give rupture a different parasite effect that "snapshots" the number of marines in the radius with some kind of alternate "ghosted" parasite icon, but which does not track the marines after they leave their initial positions.
    Neat ideas. I think having it be a % chance to parasite with the % being based on if you get blinded by it and proximity to it could be good, if we find the ability as is is too OP. It could make ground marines feel it is more "fair" since they would actually be able to react to it / plan for it to better their chances.

    Please, don't balance via chances. RNG is not good in this game.

    I would agree in general that RNG is bad, but for a commander area-of-effect based ability, I feel like it might "fit". There's already a lot of a gambling with the khammander abilities as is since you often need to trigger them blind or with very limited information (triggering bone walls to try to slow jetpack/shotgun rushes for example).
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    Frozen wrote: »
    What's RT kill time for a skulk from full hp? Can't the skulk get hit by 2 power surges in that time such that he literally can't kill an RT without regen or carapace?
    They could potentially be Surged twice in that time if alone, and it would leave the skulk with 11 hp.
    However, it would cost the same exact Tres to replace that RT.. so not exactly economically or strategically viable.

    I could see it being used once to defend a gate with a kamikaze marine running through with a cluster grenade.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    @F0rdPrefect @IronHorse You're not factoring in the effective cost of sending a marine to save or build the RT. It's more valuable than 10 res.
    mattji104
    Alite
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, EnglandMembers, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Posts: 717 mod
    edited May 2016
    Frozen wrote: »
    I'm pretty afraid of the power surge change making res-defense far too easy for marines. Now I don't have to kill a skulk, I just need to get him below 50 hp, and that's far too easy.

    What's RT kill time for a skulk from full hp? Can't the skulk get hit by 2 power surges in that time such that he literally can't kill an RT without regen or carapace?

    Phase gates are a concern too, but the res game is majorly effected here.

    edit: Happy to see balance changes and I hope this one works out better than I'm thinking, it's not particularly cheap as it is so

    aliens passive regen stops you from 2 hitting skulks with power surge... so it would require 3... in theory you should be able to kill the RT before that happens, but I haven't tested the time between powersurges vs time to kill RT yet.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • AeglosAeglos Members Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Posts: 644 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Frozen wrote: »
    What's RT kill time for a skulk from full hp? Can't the skulk get hit by 2 power surges in that time such that he literally can't kill an RT without regen or carapace?
    They could potentially be Surged twice in that time if alone, and it would leave the skulk with 11 hp.
    However, it would cost the same exact Tres to replace that RT.. so not exactly economically or strategically viable.

    I could see it being used once to defend a gate with a kamikaze marine running through with a cluster grenade.

    Its worth it if you kill the skulk. It also costs you 1 tres every 6 seconds you don't rebuild and also pulls a marine or two away to recap. Not to mention skulks that can't engage upgraded marines in combat now have difficulty against structures as well.

    But since it doesn't actually kill the skulk, I guess its not so bad. More importantly, I don't foresee many commanders making use of this ability either, so that's not too bad. Will have to try it out really.

  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Posts: 2,689 admin
    Added one more item to the changelog which I had forgotten (and which many of you may not notice depending on your NS2+ settings):
    Nameplates no longer have a background or animated border elements
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    And if the skulk gets hit by 1 W0 lmg bullet before he starts biting, @Kasharic , how many power surges will it take then?
    mattji104
  • MashpitSquaredMashpitSquared Texas, USAMembers Join Date: 2014-01-13 Member: 193053Posts: 26 Fully active user
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Glad to see the removal of single exosuits, they were practically useless and alot of rookies tend to buy singles instead of saving resources and waiting for the doubly effective dual exosuits. Nice change.

    While dual miniguns were pretty much objectively better than singles, I actually preferred the single railgun over the dual because of the mobility. As far as I know, other players who were crazy/bored enough to actually buy railgun exos would often make the same choice. Now that dualies have the same mobility as a single, though (and are cheaper), I'm gonna have lots of fun with dual rails (until onos show up, at least) :)
    76561198045222576.png
    remiVetinari
  • xen32xen32 Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Posts: 1,011 Advanced user
    I haven't played a single match yet, but we tested things in pre-game. Looks good. Everything.

    Just not sure about enemy health bar. Also, as an alien, I could only see enemy health when attacking and then it disappears again after a sec. Not sure if it's a pre-game/server mods thing.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Posts: 2,689 admin
    xen32 wrote: »
    Also, as an alien, I could only see enemy health when attacking and then it disappears again after a sec. Not sure if it's a pre-game/server mods thing.
    Yes, this is how it is intended to work. The health bar disappears pretty quickly if you're not dealing damage, and disappears even faster if your target ducks behind cover.
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    Dual exo personal resources cost reduced from 60 to 45, and Claw exos have been removed

    Why no dual claw exo ? :p

    Nice changes seriously, looking forward to test all that.

    The new fade looks really scary. o_o
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Members Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Posts: 258 Advanced user
    remi wrote: »
    I didn't get to see the health bars due to having server-side blood enabled in NS2+, but I'd prefer to have them disabled, anyway. Will there be an option to disable them once that incompatibility is fixed? I vastly prefer damage numbers. A visual aid is probably really useful for new players who don't have lifeform hp/armor totals in working memory, but numerical feedback is instantaneously useful to me, and I don't want to spend time looking for other visual indicators in the middle of combat.
    Not sure on this. I had considered making it tied to the damage numbers and have it be either-or, but I feel like there may some out there who would want to turn them both on. The NS2+ numerical nameplates does work on this, if you want to reduce the visual clutter.
    Glad to see that you're considering some sort of toggle, even if nothing is set in stone. 1) Healthbars, 2) Damage Numbers, or 3) Both are the three options we should have.

    For what it's worth, I'm partially colorblind and the numbers are simply more functionally useful to me than colored bars are (...unless we can change the color of the healthbars, but that feels a bit too granular; like something that's better off in NS2+. And I'd still prefer the numbers).
  • xen32xen32 Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Posts: 1,011 Advanced user
    remi wrote: »
    xen32 wrote: »
    Also, as an alien, I could only see enemy health when attacking and then it disappears again after a sec. Not sure if it's a pre-game/server mods thing.
    Yes, this is how it is intended to work. The health bar disappears pretty quickly if you're not dealing damage, and disappears even faster if your target ducks behind cover.

    Ok then. Yeah, sounds better then constant on.
  • migalskimigalski BostonMembers, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-07-02 Member: 197181Posts: 111 Advanced user
    is comp mod broken again? FFS
    Kasharic
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    Thanks for the update. At work so obviously can't comment much on the changes yet, but I do have a question, please excuse me if I missed the answer somewhere already.
    So I see that power surge will deal 50 dmg on powered structures. Say there are 2 skulks biting a structure and it gets power surged. Do they each get the 50 split between them or do they each get the full 50?

    Only things I see that I think I'm not sure of are the health bars and the exo cost change.
    I'm all for the removal of singles, and without having tried the new exo I can't say whether it will be overpowered or not, but 45 seems a little too cheap. We'll see.
    The healthbars concern me for a couple reasons: is it going to cause too much visual clutter when engaging multiple enemies at once? Like when 3 skulks are ambushing or closing in at close-range, is this going to hinder tracking? I also feel like it may give an unwarranted advantage. Why should a marine just be able to look at an alien and know what its health is? Doesn't fit into the world or lore, should be reserved to commanders as it had been imho.
    Anyways other than that, looking forward to checking out how it all plays out. Thanks again.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Posts: 2,689 admin
    edited May 2016
    For what it's worth, I'm partially colorblind and the numbers are simply more functionally useful to me than colored bars are (...unless we can change the color of the healthbars, but that feels a bit too granular; like something that's better off in NS2+. And I'd still prefer the numbers).
    Yeah, this is what I was struggling with when doing this feature. Using red is really the worst option for red-green colorblindness. I tried making them fuschia, since that would be a lot more readable, but I was afraid I might get lynched if I had actually put in bright pink bars. :D

    If we are able to keep developing and growing this game, I'd really like to tackle the colorblind accessibility options. It's one of the things I spearheaded during the design of CoD:Ghosts, and NS2 is actually already using mostly colorblind friendly colors, at least for the team colors (blue/orange). It was a simple choice for IW because when you have an audience of that size, 8-10% of players is actually a huge number.
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
    NousWandererWyzcrak
  • migalskimigalski BostonMembers, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-07-02 Member: 197181Posts: 111 Advanced user
    New Effects:

    On powered structures:

    Deals 50 healthpoint damage to nearby aliens
    Lowers the energy regeneration rate of nearby aliens for 5 seconds

    Uhh, can we revert this please or significantly weaken this? This literally just makes marines in competitive super easy to play now...

    skulks biting rts behind lanes, lol lemme just zap them twice.

    marines in the hive losing the gate behind them, lemme just zap the skulks off the gate.

    Lerk rush on the chair? nah rip all your energy and 1/4 of your health instantly.
    FrozenMe9a
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Posts: 2,689 admin
    2cough wrote: »
    Do they each get the 50 split between them or do they each get the full 50
    Another neat idea, if it turns out to be too OP as is. I think currently it is 50 each, not split.

    --

    Also, everyone, keep in mind we are patching weekly and can also make balance changes via the extensions even more rapidly than that, so don't be too upset if something feels totally OP while you are playing. We will be making adjustments as needed and as we see how the meta evolves with these changes in place.

    Please also join us in Discord if you want to discuss this stuff in a more active forum.
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
    2coughIronHorseWyzcrakSupaFred
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    Bicsum wrote: »
    Please, don't balance via chances. RNG is not good in this game.
    Percentages don't imply total randomness; it depends on what determines the % chance. Pure RNG is one determinant, but other (predictable) variables can be chained to modify it. For instance, you could base the % chance off of a marine's physical proximity to the center of the cyst. The chance would therefore be determined by geometry, and could drop off predictably as a marine stands further from the cyst. This would - as remi suggested - enable marines to "plan for it to better their chances" (i.e., position themselves accordingly).

    I prefer the third "alternate rupture parasite" idea I presented, but it's probably the weirdest one.
    remi wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    remi wrote: »
    I'm thinking that you might want to tweak the rupture change. Rupture was underused but effective, and skulk parasites should be emphasized at every turn. If you're dead-set on keeping some parasite mechanism tied to rupture, here are some options:
    1. Give rupture a % chance to parasite instead of making it a sure thing.
    2. Give rupture a weaker parasite effect that only lasts for 10-15 seconds.
    3. Give rupture a different parasite effect that "snapshots" the number of marines in the radius with some kind of alternate "ghosted" parasite icon, but which does not track the marines after they leave their initial positions.
    Neat ideas. I think having it be a % chance to parasite with the % being based on if you get blinded by it and proximity to it could be good, if we find the ability as is is too OP. It could make ground marines feel it is more "fair" since they would actually be able to react to it / plan for it to better their chances.

    Please, don't balance via chances. RNG is not good in this game.

    I would agree in general that RNG is bad, but for a commander area-of-effect based ability, I feel like it might "fit". There's already a lot of a gambling with the khammander abilities as is since you often need to trigger them blind or with very limited information (triggering bone walls to try to slow jetpack/shotgun rushes for example).

    If the khammander drops a bone wall blindly, the effectiveness is still completly determined by the commander. The proper analogy would be, that you have a 5% chance of the bonewall not appearing.

    If it runs down to throwing the dice, whether or not your ability works, the usage will get unnecessarily frustrating. NousWanderers other suggestions are way better.

    I would put the effectiveness of the ability directly into hands of the commander. Like making it so, that the cyst shoots 4 or 8 parasites in each direction, and you, as a khammander, can rotate the firing direction.

    Like so:
    v7xuynmdb0f7.png

    + decisions
    + skill curve

    remiWyzcrak
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    edited May 2016
    migalski wrote: »
    skulks biting rts behind lanes, lol lemme just zap them twice.
    It takes 27 seconds to down a full eHP Resource Tower assuming a single skulk, where you could "zap them twice" for 100 dmg total costing 10 tres - the same amount as that RT you were protecting.
    Even if you meant multiple skulks because you said "skulk(s)" that'd be 13.5 seconds at a minimum, so you'd only be able to zap ONCE because of the 20 sec cooldown. Doing 50 damage for 5 Tres.

    I fail to see how spending the same amount for a new RT that doesn't even save the one under attack - meaning you're going to have to spend ANOTHER 10 Tres, for a combined 20 Tres - is somehow an economically sound decision?

    This mechanic is essentially trading high demand Tres for a better chance at clearing out 1 or 2 skulks from that area in general IF a marine is capable of finishing them off.
    Using this mechanic exclusively on RTs makes no sense economically or tactically (since you can't even kill a single skulk in time with it).
    This isn't even getting into the impact of the initial cost to research it in the early game.

    I could understand suggestions to adjusting the Tres cost or the damage done, but suggesting to remove it because someone isn't weighing the costs doesn't make sense to me.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    SquishpokePOOPFACE
  • AliteAlite Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2007-03-02 Member: 60188Posts: 76 Fully active user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    migalski wrote: »
    skulks biting rts behind lanes, lol lemme just zap them twice.
    It takes 27 seconds to down a full eHP Resource Tower assuming a single skulk, where you could "zap them twice" for 100 dmg total costing 10 tres - the same amount as that RT you were protecting.
    Even if you meant multiple skulks because you said "skulk(s)" that'd be 13.5 seconds at a minimum, so you'd only be able to zap ONCE because of the 20 sec cooldown. Doing 50 damage for 5 Tres.

    I fail to see how spending the same amount for a new RT that doesn't even save the one under attack - meaning you're going to have to spend ANOTHER 10 Tres, for a combined 20 Tres - is somehow an economically sound decision?

    This mechanic is essentially trading high demand Tres for a better chance at clearing out 1 or 2 skulks from that area in general IF a marine is capable of finishing them off.
    Using this mechanic exclusively on RTs makes no sense economically or tactically (since you can't even kill a single skulk in time with it).
    This isn't even getting into the impact of the initial cost to research it in the early game.

    I could understand suggestions to adjusting the Tres cost or the damage done, but suggesting to remove it because someone isn't weighing the costs doesn't make sense to me.

    I think the issue is that now marines don't need to have good lane blocking, they can essentially let a skulk through the lanes and as long as they damage the skulk a bit, the comm will 100% be able to kill the skulk biting the rt. This saves the cost of replacing the rt, and the time it takes a marine to run there, kill the skulk and recap it. If you ask me that's more than worth 10 tres.

    To me it seems like a huge buff to marines, before this change in the situation I described above, that skulk could have wrecked havoc on the marine RTs until dealt with, not the case anymore. Obviously I haven't played with this change yet, so I guess only time will tell how useful it is, but that's just my first impression reading the change.
    migalski
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