Update 295 Released! - Natural Selection 2

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  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    2cough wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    while I don't notice the rag doll changes as I've already had them set to disappear immediately in ns2+ for as long as i can remember having the option, I'm not sure why a slider wasn't introduced into vanilla as it had already been in aforementioned ns2+.

    I call bullshit.

    I'm supposed to get that ns2+ doesnt solve what issue completely from "i call bullshit?" All i said was i dont notice the change because i dont. you can carry on your crusade if you want, but i really dont care. you're probably right, they probably linger sometimes, but i havent noticed enough to have it make "an impression," and honestly you can take my word for it or not, i picked the first clips i found of ragdolls in view after kill. No "filtering" of videos, just not wasting any more time on this.
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Here, lets be very clear. It is impossible to not notice this change, especially if you have it has bothered you enough previously for you to enable instant ragdoll dissolve in NS2+. Claiming otherwise is just dishonest.

    So again, all I'm actually seeing is you saying i'm being dishonest, which is why i quickly put together the clip; to show how negligible the difference is to me . I dont see the need to even bring it up in the first place, just seems like nastiness for nastiness' sake. have fun w/ that.

    It was a hyperlink to a page where an informed person confirmed the issue. And I already mentioned why I brought it up. Whatever, I'm done. I'm not repeating myself over and over again.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    You dont even need to gray it out, you can just utilize the existing shader effects for immediate change, just have the effect fade out slower and keep the ragdoll alive for slightly longer.
    Presto, you've now clearly communicated a changed state on top of the already obvious +5 popup, audio effects and killfeed highlight.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    You dont even need to gray it out, you can just utilize the existing shader effects for immediate change, just have the effect fade out slower and keep the ragdoll alive for slightly longer.
    Presto, you've now clearly communicated a changed state on top of the already obvious +5 popup, audio effects and killfeed highlight.

    How about death screams?

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=jVsjgjLpRB8
  • develdevel Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Members
    Dirty Bomb conveys death very well with their "gray out" shader. If a player is dead for good, the corpse loses all colour (turns gray) and looks "dull". I think that would be a better visual effect than vanishing corpses. (The Quake Live example looks good too)

    It doesn't work if the modelss are all gray in the first place.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    IronHorse wrote: »
    You dont even need to gray it out, you can just utilize the existing shader effects for immediate change, just have the effect fade out slower and keep the ragdoll alive for slightly longer.
    Presto, you've now clearly communicated a changed state on top of the already obvious +5 popup, audio effects and killfeed highlight.
    Do any of those trigger if you weren't involved in the killing?

    Now that we are talking about it, is the score popup still there? I always thought the quick number popup generated really unpleasant visual clutter. I don't think there's any particularly good reason you need to know how much exactly a kill is worth in points or so. I think NS1 displayed the actual increase (+5 or so) on the scoreboard itself and it was more than sufficient.

    Could it be either completely removed or tranformed into crosshair changing shape or flashing with different color or something along those lines? I just absolutely dislike the general idea of quickly flashing text or numbers on the screen because they either end up ignored or steal your attention too much. Usually icons or such get the same message across without adding so much to the visual clutter and distraction.

    I know it's a small thing, but I think these make a huge difference when you're new to the game and trying to figure out what's essential.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members
    If you guys are so worried about player retention, then hire some veteran players to teach the god damn greenies how to play in rookie only servers. Give them a badge and everything.

    Interesting idea, if they get coached til lvl5 they would be better prepared for normal servers.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    If you guys are so worried about player retention, then hire some veteran players to teach the god damn greenies how to play in rookie only servers. Give them a badge and everything.

    Interesting idea, if they get coached til lvl5 they would be better prepared for normal servers.

    Out of interest, has anyone experimented with the inbuilt Steam streaming system? I feel the lacking spectate features and such have always increased the learning barrier in NS2 and helped to keep all the hidden information well hidden. Would it be possible for example to stream some gathers, PCWs and whatever else more organized stuff is going on?

    I haven't really looked into it, but the initial feel I got was that the system suits occassional quick n' easy streaming for small audience better than the twicthtv or such.
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    I was thinking of an ingame vote for people you find helpful learning game, tip and tricks ...
    Implentation is not easy to figure out tho.
  • RautapalliRautapalli Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72710Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2016
    Bacillus wrote: »
    If you guys are so worried about player retention, then hire some veteran players to teach the god damn greenies how to play in rookie only servers. Give them a badge and everything.

    Interesting idea, if they get coached til lvl5 they would be better prepared for normal servers.

    Out of interest, has anyone experimented with the inbuilt Steam streaming system? I feel the lacking spectate features and such have always increased the learning barrier in NS2 and helped to keep all the hidden information well hidden. Would it be possible for example to stream some gathers, PCWs and whatever else more organized stuff is going on?

    I haven't really looked into it, but the initial feel I got was that the system suits occassional quick n' easy streaming for small audience better than the twicthtv or such.

    My experience with steam streaming is that no one watches them. Even I tend to forget that feature even exists since all the streams are buried so deep inside steam community. If someone is looking to get better by watching NS2 streams I doubt anyone would check steam before twitch.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    You dont even need to gray it out, you can just utilize the existing shader effects for immediate change, just have the effect fade out slower and keep the ragdoll alive for slightly longer.
    Presto, you've now clearly communicated a changed state on top of the already obvious +5 popup, audio effects and killfeed highlight.

    How about death screams?

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=jVsjgjLpRB8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn6hhrX34Pw
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Screw the age ratings, the best way to convey death is the complete destruction of your enemy. I wanna blow fade arms off with a shotgun, pop the head off a skulk, turn the lerk into charred remains like an overcooked chicken. The onos is huge, that means it has huge guts, rip and tear!

    VKam7kV.png
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    Rautapalli wrote: »
    Bacillus wrote: »
    If you guys are so worried about player retention, then hire some veteran players to teach the god damn greenies how to play in rookie only servers. Give them a badge and everything.

    Interesting idea, if they get coached til lvl5 they would be better prepared for normal servers.

    Out of interest, has anyone experimented with the inbuilt Steam streaming system? I feel the lacking spectate features and such have always increased the learning barrier in NS2 and helped to keep all the hidden information well hidden. Would it be possible for example to stream some gathers, PCWs and whatever else more organized stuff is going on?

    I haven't really looked into it, but the initial feel I got was that the system suits occassional quick n' easy streaming for small audience better than the twicthtv or such.

    My experience with steam streaming is that no one watches them. Even I tend to forget that feature even exists since all the streams are buried so deep inside steam community. If someone is looking to get better by watching NS2 streams I doubt anyone would check steam before twitch.

    Yeah. I was mostly thinking that it might be the way to set up makeshift guidance whenever there's an opportunity rather than trying to establish some kind of regular streaming culture. Mostly I feel it could be a useful tool if people are doing the guide stuff anyway. If there's a gather going on, you could set up a stream quickly and just share it with a bunch of people who might want to check it out.

    I'm not sure if it's possible for example to have a casual server that sometimes cycles messages about available gather games and their streams or so. Just some extra visibility to get people exited about learning the game. One of the major problems with NS2 learning curve is that the game is inaccessible, but lacks that kind of day9 figure that says "This is why it's worth learning". That's how SC2 and Dota 2 got a lot of people playing despite pretty rough initial learning curves.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Screw the age ratings, the best way to convey death is the complete destruction of your enemy. I wanna blow fade arms off with a shotgun, pop the head off a skulk, turn the lerk into charred remains like an overcooked chicken. The onos is huge, that means it has huge guts, rip and tear!

    VKam7kV.png

    I would actually really appreciate if the last hits on a lifeform or even marine caused different sweet model effects like this based on where they land. It would only amplify the fade kill joy feeling
  • FoxyFoxy United Kingdom Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2016
    nizb0ag wrote: »
    Hey guys it seems that the name implementation isn't working very well, i've changed my name in game and it now changes my steam profile name. not the other way around?

    This is explained in the changelog.
    Your nickname in NS2 will now automatically update with changes to your Steam name (this can be disabled from the options menu, under General -> Keep Same As Steam)

    If you change name in steam OR in game with 'keep same as steam' enabled then both names will be changed to match.

  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited April 2016
    Foxy wrote: »
    nizb0ag wrote: »
    Hey guys it seems that the name implementation isn't working very well, i've changed my name in game and it now changes my steam profile name. not the other way around?

    This is explained in the changelog.
    Your nickname in NS2 will now automatically update with changes to your Steam name (this can be disabled from the options menu, under General -> Keep Same As Steam)

    If you change name in steam OR in game with 'keep same as steam' enabled then both names will be changed to match.

    Doesn't matter, by default it should be disabled and or shouldn't hook into your steam profile, this ruined the name history of my profile which was just my original name, i don't like that and i am sure many other people are. That and what logic does it go by where in game name changes steam name, usually it's done the other way around (would be alot less confusing too)

    ~comment only if you have answers, not if you want to be witty and give me the same old rehashed explanation about saving CPU power, because get lost with your shitty server hardware if you can't even maintain 30-40idle late game.
    Also again, could someone please explain as to what the difference is now as to why default moverate is 26 instead of 30? was there a reason behind that other then "save spare cycles and cpu power" or was there something more to it like code change? need to explain this more in depth before i just fuck around with it some more, people using outdated moverate on there shine configs so this doesn't help.

    Also could anyone explain the mysterious sensitivity issue that users are reporting on Australian servers?
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited April 2016
    @nizb0ag You should really read the entirety of the thread for more info on moverate
  • FoxyFoxy United Kingdom Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    nizb0ag wrote: »
    Doesn't matter, by default it should be disabled and or shouldn't hook into your steam profile, this ruined the name history of my profile which was just my original name, i don't like that and i am sure many other people are. That and what logic does it go by where in game name changes steam name, usually it's done the other way around (would be alot less confusing too)

    Its in the changelog man. Its also the second option on the first page of the options. I suppose the devs could have blocked name changes in game whilst 'Keep Same as Steam' was enabled but then people would complain how inconvenient it was to toggle it off.

  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Ironhorse i did read the changelog and this thread, i don't know why people are so broad with how they apply what they say to my posts just because i get a little infuriated.
    Default server moverate reduced from 30 to 26. This restores it to approximately what it was prior to build 279, and should help server performance

    Please define "restores approximately what it was prior to build 279" how did moverate change between builds? i never saw any change notes or any code changes posted or mused about for moverate atleast, i am sorry i just don't know why anyone would want to lower the moverate unless the values in spark core/networking were changed themselves to be more efficent, could @matso please chime in on this.

    Most servers have set there moverate to 30 from shine, so if you intended 26 to be a more efficient value then 30, please specify what was changed?

    No i think you misunderstand what i said @Foxy Either way, off by default for either of the options, they tried it once before in an old build and people didn't like it, this one is even worse in the sense it changs your steam profile/friends names without letting you know by default, that ruined something, imagine if i played as "Flayra" but my steam profile name was "Charlie" and i never changed it from Charlie, then all of a sudden my steam profile name changed to Flayra, my steam profile then listed various names i've used in the past on NS2 which are clearly stupid.

    so infuriating, sorry @IronHorse
  • Bobby_WasabiBobby_Wasabi USA Join Date: 2016-04-20 Member: 215990Members
    Bacillus wrote: »

    Now that we are talking about it, is the score popup still there? I always thought the quick number popup generated really unpleasant visual clutter. I don't think there's any particularly good reason you need to know how much exactly a kill is worth in points or so. I think NS1 displayed the actual increase (+5 or so) on the scoreboard itself and it was more than sufficient.

    Could it be either completely removed or tranformed into crosshair changing shape or flashing with different color or something along those lines? I just absolutely dislike the general idea of quickly flashing text or numbers on the screen because they either end up ignored or steal your attention too much. Usually icons or such get the same message across without adding so much to the visual clutter and distraction.

    I know it's a small thing, but I think these make a huge difference when you're new to the game and trying to figure out what's essential.

    I really enjoy seeing the green numbers pop up. They help me know when an enemy is dead (so I can stop shooting), and it is so satisfying to see 30+ points when I or someone kills an onos or annoying fade.


    nizb0ag wrote: »

    Doesn't matter, by default it should be disabled and or shouldn't hook into your steam profile, this ruined the name history of my profile which was just my original name, i don't like that and i am sure many other people are. That and what logic does it go by where in game name changes steam name, usually it's done the other way around (would be alot less confusing too)

    I can see why this upsets you. I have one name on alias history (with the exception of "username + music" or things along that line). I check people's alias history all the time and when I see that they have only had one name I know that they are legit players. That is now ruined for you.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited April 2016
    nizb0ag wrote: »
    how did moverate change between builds?
    On page 1 of the thread there's more info.

    But I guess there's no detailed explanation of how specifically.. I am not the best source on the topic but I can say that MR is not static (depend on player FPS etc) and is unbound from tickrate, and that this was originally changed to improve hitreg (or was a byproduct of such?) as it was not working correctly beforehand.

    After it got corrected the actual real world rate ended up being higher (closer to 40) ... this patch lessens the rate to more closely match what it was before it was corrected, and even then it's still slightly improved over pre-279.
    This is one of the reasons most server ops noticed performance decrease after the hitreg improvements.
  • develdevel Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Members
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @nizb0ag You should really read the entirety of the thread

    Possibility to change the Steam name from inside NS2 is an UX bug. Should acknowledge and fix that.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited April 2016
    @devel It was in regards to his moverate question, not the steam name thing.
    I've edited my post to more accurately reflect this.
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2016
    AFAIK (I am not 100% sure) the original moverate was dependent on frame rate. I would wait 1/MR seconds, then generate a move on the next frame. So at the default of 30, it would wait 33ms, then however long till the next rendered frame (at 100 fps that could be an additional 10ms). Matso updated it so that it takes frame time into account when waiting to generate the next move. On ENSL servers where people typically run lower settings to maximize framerates, I usually saw between 27-28 actual MR before the fix. So the increase is those situations is not as drastic as often described, and this patch is a decrease beyond even those values. I can see how for many servers an increase of 10-15% in the move rate would be a pretty big hurt on perf, but thats not quite the case for ENSL servers.

    I get that performance is a fickle beast in NS2, and when prototyping features you want something playable asap. But its important to go back and consider the costs both on server cpu and server bandwidth and update accordingly after. I am not sure when the performance regressions happened, but they are quite noticeable especially at the start of a round currently. This is something that happened after the move rate fix however, and is not related to that afaik.

    On the name issue, does changing your name in NS2 update steam? If so, the changelog does a poor job of communicating that:
    Your nickname in NS2 will now automatically update with changes to your Steam name
  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited April 2016
    yeah I can think of a ton of games that use my steam name as my in-game name, but not a single other one that actually changes my steam name let alone without warning or informing me. that's the sort of functionality I wouldn't even expect valve to give games. if this is all being done in order to not confuse new players, you should probably stick to how every other game on steam handles it, rather than adding another hidden 'feature' imo.
  • FoxyFoxy United Kingdom Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Just realized that Steam names and IGN is now linked. This bothers me a lot, since I play with a different name on NS2 than on other games.

    It's detailed in the changelog (link on main page and page 1 of this thread) where you'll also see that it's an option you can disable.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    @turtsmcgurt @devel @nizb0ag

    While it is supposedly intentional I have reported it as a bug in the meantime in order to raise the issue in the future, as I completely agree with you.
    https://trello.com/c/JEdLmwnf
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    edited April 2016
    Guys complaining about the name thing...

    First of all I think it's safe to assume that having the game change your steam name without warning is a glitch with this patch that will only affect current players. (and not even all current players.. For me it changed my in-game name to my steam name)

    If you go to make a nickname you're going to see the "keep name same as steam" checkbox under it... Is virtually impossible to miss.

    Furthermore having an alias on your account is no big deal. Saying that having an alias makes you a seem like suspicious player to other people just seems silly to me

    Besides you can always make a bunch of alias with the same name and paranthesis such as (no sound) or (no mic)

    It's not something worth complaining this much over.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2016
    REALLY? whining over a feature that you are able to TOGGLE, REALLY?

    Get back in there.
    busy-bees-creche-nursery-4.jpg
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Golden wrote: »
    Noone is whining over a feature that can be toggled. They're complaining because the game is changing their Steam name, which a game should never do. And to preempt Foxy, the changelog says:
    Your nickname in NS2 will now automatically update with changes to your Steam name (this can be disabled from the options menu, under General -> Keep Same As Steam)

    implying that changes to your Steam will affect your in-game name. Not the other way around. I've changed my steam name twice in the almost 13 years I've had it, I would hate for a game to do it for me without my consent.

    Yes this happened to me the other night. Pretty obnoxious as I had the same steam name for at least like 7 years. Now I look like a name changing scrub. Pretty disappointed :(
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