Just because the comp community have tweaked some values, this does not mean the game is broken. If it was, comp players would never play on a pub server ever.
I didn't play before compmod, but I assume it came to be because vanilla is in fact broken when it's 6v6 and players have higher mechanical skill and teamwork than public play. If it wasn't, the mod wouldn't exist.
There's a difference between a person joining a public server to have casual fun and going to a private server for smaller, more competitive gameplay.
I give up... this will go on forever ^^ @Foxy the damage changes on onos gore and minigun damage where tested by an entire server population for months... proven working by fun unexploitative games (cuz it's not possible anymore) the scenarios i described stayed missing... ergo working... it has to do with the wiki cuz how could you explain a floating balance easily... e.g. onos gore 90-110 DMG ... and yea I genuinly believe that the entire NS2+ has a significantly higher impact on the outcome of a game than changing the Onos Gore to 95 (was 100) and the minigun dmg to 21 (was 22) ... I'll stop now... go through the entire thread, cuz everything has been said. If you don't understand by now you either can't somehow or you have your fingers VERY deep in your ears.
none the less.. I hope this gets resolved quickly so ppl don't have more reasons to quit the game.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
I started this thread for one reason:
The Devs should give us an explanation why a official unsupported server is whitelisted while the "whitelister" says that they are not allowed to be and other servers with less gamechanges are not whitelisted.
I played a lot in uwe officials at the time. Because i was sure it was not modded. Nowadays situation seems same. You can't be sure how server has altered gameplay. Definitely going to avoid (s)hellarious bastards from now on (I liked those servers). I want vanilla gameplay.
I played a lot in uwe officials at the time. Because i was sure it was not modded. Nowadays situation seems same. You can't be sure how server has altered gameplay. Definitely going to avoid (s)hellarious bastards from now on (I liked those servers). I want vanilla gameplay.
I vote for not whitelisting any modded server.
Which is, imho, a shame. In the case of Hellarious Basterds this means that the non-whitelisting will both disencourage new rookies and vets from playing on it (as they will not get credited for playtime or gain ELO) - and thus miss out on the community formed by the regulars of those servers (and Hellrunner himself) who have, from the start, been encouraging and friendly to newcomers whilst maintaining a zero-tolerance against disruptive players.
tl;dr: A server with no modifications will not neccessarily yield a better experience for both vets and new players. Established communities and friendly regulars - regardless of whether we're talking HB, Wooza, TTO or whatever else you want - will.
PelargirJoin Date: 2013-07-02Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
I doubt newcomers care a lot about which servers are whitelisted and which aren't. The issue lies more on 'veterans' who would get away from those servers if they're concerned about their ELO or other vanilla servers that will get affected by players who usually play on non whitelisted servers.
Since the whole system works through the Hive, if you keep servers out of it, the lesser balanced teams will be.
The Devs should give us an explanation why a official unsupported server is whitelisted while the "whitelister" says that they are not allowed to be and other servers with less gamechanges are not whitelisted.
I thought you started it because you've been complaining about Wooza's server for the past 2 years.
I give up... this will go on forever ^^ @Foxy the damage changes on onos gore and minigun damage where tested by an entire server population for months... proven working by fun unexploitative games (cuz it's not possible anymore) the scenarios i described stayed missing... ergo working... it has to do with the wiki cuz how could you explain a floating balance easily... e.g. onos gore 90-110 DMG ... and yea I genuinly believe that the entire NS2+ has a significantly higher impact on the outcome of a game than changing the Onos Gore to 95 (was 100) and the minigun dmg to 21 (was 22) ... I'll stop now... go through the entire thread, cuz everything has been said. If you don't understand by now you either can't somehow or you have your fingers VERY deep in your ears.
none the less.. I hope this gets resolved quickly so ppl don't have more reasons to quit the game.
So basically it was tested by you on your server with your regulars. People who already believe the game is unbalanced will of course agree with you when you try random changes. Biased testing from the ground up and those people agreeing with you doesn't 'prove' anything, it just reinforces your opinion, which is all your argument is based on.
I give up... this will go on forever ^^ @Foxy the damage changes on onos gore and minigun damage where tested by an entire server population for months... proven working by fun unexploitative games (cuz it's not possible anymore) the scenarios i described stayed missing... ergo working... it has to do with the wiki cuz how could you explain a floating balance easily... e.g. onos gore 90-110 DMG ... and yea I genuinly believe that the entire NS2+ has a significantly higher impact on the outcome of a game than changing the Onos Gore to 95 (was 100) and the minigun dmg to 21 (was 22) ... I'll stop now... go through the entire thread, cuz everything has been said. If you don't understand by now you either can't somehow or you have your fingers VERY deep in your ears.
none the less.. I hope this gets resolved quickly so ppl don't have more reasons to quit the game.
So basically it was tested by you on your server with your regulars. People who already believe the game is unbalanced will of course agree with you when you try random changes. Biased testing from the ground up and those people agreeing with you doesn't 'prove' anything, it just reinforces your opinion, which is all your argument is based on.
It was also used in another server where the majority of the players were not biased, from or even particularly familiar with comp ns2 in any way. Many of them have went from playing in that 8v8 server with compmod to giving the competitive scene a go.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2016
@IeptBarakat
I hate this ***** wooza server and think every1 know this.
Its the cancer of NS2.
But thats not the reason i open this thread.
All i want is a clear statement of the devs why some servers are not ranked while unsupported are.
I want this statement cause im playing on Hellarious Basterds often lately wich isnt whitelisted anymore cause 2 small changes while another server can hack the exe to double the slotamount and its still whitelisted.
Did i mention that this makes no sense?
So, any dev out there who is willing to explain this to me?
And btw, can you explain also why last stand servers are ranked? Didnt they change the game also?
There would be no servers whitelisted. I haven't encountered an entirely vanilla server in so long, I can't even remember the last one.
Plus you're crazy if you think vanilla gameplay is an ideal ns2 experience imo.
@foxy some of your arguments really come off as vendetta logic and not real logic.
I can't control people's perception of what I say. My original comments were to explain how different compmod is to vanilla and how that alone should exclude it from whitelisting by Lukas' requirements. I also can't control if people such as HEllrunner want to hijack this thread to push their personal vendettas about losing whitelisting.
@Foxy hijacking? ... seriously... I write alot if it's important to me. why would I have a personal vendetta? I love NS2, you'd know if you'd know me. this is pointless.. you're clearly talking about stuff you have no grasp on... come to HB.. play exclusiveley with us for a couple of weeks and see for yourself... then you'll know what's up. with the server and the game. ... ppl like me... rude, man
@foxy fair enough, but sounded a bit like a campaign to me.
The way I personally interpret something as being game changing is not slightly changing values of dmg or cost of ups or even minor lifeform changes/biomass requirements. Hell even player count is not game changing imo. Why? Cuz you're still playing the same core game. The end-goal hasn't changed, and though there are slightly different paths to reach that same end-goal, it's not drastic by any means and still boils down to a balanced and enjoyable round of ns2.
Siege, last stand, combat. Those are more along the lines of game changing and I'd like to think that's what was meant in regards to the dev's statement on whitelisting requirements.
@Foxy hijacking? ... seriously... I write alot if it's important to me. why would I have a personal vendetta? I love NS2, you'd know if you'd know me. this is pointless.. you're clearly talking about stuff you have no grasp on... come to HB.. play exclusiveley with us for a couple of weeks and see for yourself... then you'll know what's up. with the server and the game. ... ppl like me... rude, man
Please don't try to label me as rude after the behaviour you displayed that got you removed from discord.
I LEFT discord... cuz it's pointless... cuz it's full of ppl like you
WHY does it sound rude?.. cuz I don't give a flying FU** who you are when I call you out on your bullsh** ?!
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I would argue that we should not YET worry to much about the current whitelisting. Because its flawed.
* It has comp mod servers in it.
- It skews the balance but you can not remove them from whitelist either. (or risk having 0 elo comp players stomping if they go into pub)
* It has partially invalid data.
- Rookies used to get 1000, now start at 0. Imagine if those rookies come back. (They did)
* It needs to be done manual.
* It has ns2large on it.
- Which skews the balance. But you can not remove it, fact is that its 'to big' now to go away. Its here to stay wherever we like it or not.
I would argue a new hive system with whitelisting would keep track for everything but split them up in different categories.
But still had a way to track skill across all of them.
Totally being unaware of any functionality of hive 2.0, it is in the making. Rather then complain, suggest how they can PREVENT issues in hive 2.0
Actually you were removed for displaying the same attitude that you do here. Constantly berating people that don't conform to your point of view. You even swore at IronHorse when he politely explained what was going on.
This thread has been derailed enough already, so I'm not going to converse with you anymore. I've made my views clear on the ranked or not ranked debate already.
FYI.. half of my posts have been deleted by IronHorse in that conversation (this censorship and puting things out of context to deamonize me was part of the reason I left)... get your facts straight... you don't even know me, dude! the only thing that you made abundantly clear is that you don't like me. And don't give a sh** about a not so smal part of the NS2 community... thx, be safe!
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I was present the whole convo in the ops channel, Hellrunner. You were going way overboard. Passionate is one thing, but there are limits to everything.
The censoring was done after to cleanup, as the whole thing was off topic.
FYI.. half of my posts have been deleted by IronHorse in that conversation
Because you were violating the rules of the channel and 2 different admins' orders, as was explained to you for you a 3rd time by foxy in this thread, and as @DC_Darkling backs up right there ^
Servers that enabled GAME BALANCE mods that are not COMPMOD will be removed from whitelisting. That's the rule, that's what I have told everyone in server ops on discord, that is what I told hellrunner. He agreed to remove the balance mod he was using and we whitelisted him, just a week or so later he made a new mod and hid balance changes in it, so the server was removed from the whitelist. I dont like doing this, but I also dont like being taken advantage of. Be honest and follow the policy and you get to be ranked.
If you have specific questions please write them in a post again and @WasabiOne me on it so I can get notified, thx
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2016
So changing serverslots above official limit via hex editor hack is ok by this rules?
Reducing gore damage by 5 is changing the game more than unofficial slotsizes?
Comments
I didn't play before compmod, but I assume it came to be because vanilla is in fact broken when it's 6v6 and players have higher mechanical skill and teamwork than public play. If it wasn't, the mod wouldn't exist.
There's a difference between a person joining a public server to have casual fun and going to a private server for smaller, more competitive gameplay.
none the less.. I hope this gets resolved quickly so ppl don't have more reasons to quit the game.
The Devs should give us an explanation why a official unsupported server is whitelisted while the "whitelister" says that they are not allowed to be and other servers with less gamechanges are not whitelisted.
I vote for not whitelisting any modded server.
Which is, imho, a shame. In the case of Hellarious Basterds this means that the non-whitelisting will both disencourage new rookies and vets from playing on it (as they will not get credited for playtime or gain ELO) - and thus miss out on the community formed by the regulars of those servers (and Hellrunner himself) who have, from the start, been encouraging and friendly to newcomers whilst maintaining a zero-tolerance against disruptive players.
tl;dr: A server with no modifications will not neccessarily yield a better experience for both vets and new players. Established communities and friendly regulars - regardless of whether we're talking HB, Wooza, TTO or whatever else you want - will.
Since the whole system works through the Hive, if you keep servers out of it, the lesser balanced teams will be.
I thought you started it because you've been complaining about Wooza's server for the past 2 years.
So basically it was tested by you on your server with your regulars. People who already believe the game is unbalanced will of course agree with you when you try random changes. Biased testing from the ground up and those people agreeing with you doesn't 'prove' anything, it just reinforces your opinion, which is all your argument is based on.
It was also used in another server where the majority of the players were not biased, from or even particularly familiar with comp ns2 in any way. Many of them have went from playing in that 8v8 server with compmod to giving the competitive scene a go.
There would be no servers whitelisted. I haven't encountered an entirely vanilla server in so long, I can't even remember the last one.
Plus you're crazy if you think vanilla gameplay is an ideal ns2 experience imo.
@foxy some of your arguments really come off as vendetta logic and not real logic.
I hate this ***** wooza server and think every1 know this.
Its the cancer of NS2.
But thats not the reason i open this thread.
All i want is a clear statement of the devs why some servers are not ranked while unsupported are.
I want this statement cause im playing on Hellarious Basterds often lately wich isnt whitelisted anymore cause 2 small changes while another server can hack the exe to double the slotamount and its still whitelisted.
Did i mention that this makes no sense?
So, any dev out there who is willing to explain this to me?
And btw, can you explain also why last stand servers are ranked? Didnt they change the game also?
I can't control people's perception of what I say. My original comments were to explain how different compmod is to vanilla and how that alone should exclude it from whitelisting by Lukas' requirements. I also can't control if people such as HEllrunner want to hijack this thread to push their personal vendettas about losing whitelisting.
The way I personally interpret something as being game changing is not slightly changing values of dmg or cost of ups or even minor lifeform changes/biomass requirements. Hell even player count is not game changing imo. Why? Cuz you're still playing the same core game. The end-goal hasn't changed, and though there are slightly different paths to reach that same end-goal, it's not drastic by any means and still boils down to a balanced and enjoyable round of ns2.
Siege, last stand, combat. Those are more along the lines of game changing and I'd like to think that's what was meant in regards to the dev's statement on whitelisting requirements.
Please don't try to label me as rude after the behaviour you displayed that got you removed from discord.
WHY does it sound rude?.. cuz I don't give a flying FU** who you are when I call you out on your bullsh** ?!
* It has comp mod servers in it.
- It skews the balance but you can not remove them from whitelist either. (or risk having 0 elo comp players stomping if they go into pub)
* It has partially invalid data.
- Rookies used to get 1000, now start at 0. Imagine if those rookies come back. (They did)
* It needs to be done manual.
* It has ns2large on it.
- Which skews the balance. But you can not remove it, fact is that its 'to big' now to go away. Its here to stay wherever we like it or not.
I would argue a new hive system with whitelisting would keep track for everything but split them up in different categories.
But still had a way to track skill across all of them.
Totally being unaware of any functionality of hive 2.0, it is in the making. Rather then complain, suggest how they can PREVENT issues in hive 2.0
Actually you were removed for displaying the same attitude that you do here. Constantly berating people that don't conform to your point of view. You even swore at IronHorse when he politely explained what was going on.
This thread has been derailed enough already, so I'm not going to converse with you anymore. I've made my views clear on the ranked or not ranked debate already.
The censoring was done after to cleanup, as the whole thing was off topic.
As for the thread itself, let's poke @AceDude since he's been dealing with whitelisted servers for quite a while now.
Now cease derailing this thread.
If you have specific questions please write them in a post again and @WasabiOne me on it so I can get notified, thx
Reducing gore damage by 5 is changing the game more than unofficial slotsizes?