Ranked or not ranked

dePARA

The Hellarious Basterds server made some minor changes to exos and onos lately.
I think the changes are between vanilla and comp mod now.
So while compmod servers are still ranked, Hellarious Basterds isnt anymore cause the changes.
On the other hand we have glory 42 slot servers wich are based on an hacked server.exe and this is ranked.

For me all this makes no sense.
While a server isnt ranked anymore cause it trys to find a middle way between comp and pub (7v7 with some changes near to compmod) another server wich is official unsupported is.
On top of that we have this comment:

So, whats going on here?

2cough

My hypothesis is that when a change is made to a server, it is automatically removed until the next batch of whitelist in which it will probably be readded once it has its 50 rounds (or whatever).

Example: no rookies pub was white listed for a long time. Medi ended up volunteering it for ensl use and added comp mod. It was removed from the whitelist after this. After a week or 2 of rounds on it, it started relaying rounds again.

Ofc this is conjecture, but this is what I've noticed.

HEllrunner2k

Onos Gore 95 (was 100, CompMod 90)
Exo Minigun DMG 21 (was 22 CompMod 20)

these are the changes in question ... the ONLY balance changes I "snuk" in again... regular players do not notice this and pros can not solo a round with an onos or exo anymore, effectivley exploiting vanilla balance... these changes are neccessary in 7v7... @UWE there is still the floating balance idea that would render all balance tweaks obsolete... till then trust the ops that don't go overboard with it to know what's best for thier community.

paskiainenjantunen

R

HEllrunner2k wrote: »

pros

could you fucking not?

MoFo1

The ns2large servers are so extremely bad (both performance and balance wise) that if they're going to whitelist them, they need to whitelist every server...

It's frustrating seeing a server like luckyfkers not whitelisted when utter garbage like woozas is...

ShellMo

I think for the sake of consistency it needs to be one way or the other. Are servers with comp mod running able to be whitelisted? What about Woozas?

If some servers are going to be allowed to use mods that modify damage/gameplay, there needs to be some kind of clarification as to what is ok, what is not and WHY. What reason is there for these other servers to be whitelisted and Hells to be not. Is there any documentation for this?

I don't really feel like I know enough about how this all works so forgive me if any of this is obvious.

Personally I don't see why these changes are such a big deal - I hadn't even noticed them back in the game!

HEllrunner2k

I dissagree with wooza's beeing garbage. It's a necessity to NS2. I try to filter my personal feelings out of my judgement. I would never play on a server other than the 7v7 format now days, cuz the gameplay is inferior. But that's personal preference... Yeah, to summ it up I agree. I am not fond of the selectivness with wich they whitelist. the hellarious servers are a competitive team forge since the begining. I do not understand thier intentions.

Blrg

2cough wrote: »

My hypothesis is that when a change is made to a server, it is automatically removed until the next batch of whitelist in which it will probably be readded once it has its 50 rounds (or whatever).

That is exactly what I was thinking. Seems a system to prevent a whitelisted server going crazy all of a sudden. Makes sense if that is the case. But it can also be a pain in the ass if the server keeps adding some minor tweaks, causing the server to be non-white all the time

ShellMo

From what I understand this was not an automated process. Changes were spotted and the server removed from the whitelist in accordance with the rules?

Tinki

You also changed ingame sound. "your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack, your base is under attack"

On a side note i don't think large server should be ranked just by the fact that your impact on the game is insignifant for the most part. And competitive server shoulndn't be rank either until "hive 2.0" since you will lose up to 50 point per rounds on these servers. Players who only play gathers have 1500 point but have the level of 2500 on pubs.
Skill points are designed to balance public games on a vanilla server so it should gather it's data only from these server (so no compmod, no large server, no modified servers).

HEllrunner2k

that's not how it works in action, @Tinki ... and the tweaks are neccessary so you guys can't rape pubs as easily... Again all the fuzz is about: Onos Gore 95 (was 100, Compmod 90) Minigun DMG 21 (was 22, compMod 20) ... also I did not change core mechanics. the "Base under attack" (or "YOUR base under attack" in vanilla) Sounds play exactly as often as it does in vanilla. If you find it annoying you're just not used to the supperior sounds yet that's all, and this therefore sounds like a "you" problem which doesn't fit in the discussion and is solvable by playing somewhere else

HEllrunner2k

but tell me.. @ all .... if the vanilla balance is perfect and untouchable (especially for 6v6,7v7)... why is there a compMod (former balance mod) in the first place? and how about UWE gathers data from a seperate whitelist... I GLADLY put in some changes so they don't recive data from the HB servers anymore if they want. problem solved, everyone happy

Tinki

It's not about "vanilla is perfect", it's about what data should hive use for points. The question is does this server have mods which can in anyway change the outcome of the game. Yours very little (in comparaisson to 42 slots) but you say it yourself : "the tweaks are neccessary so you guys can't rape pubs as easily" so it does affect the rounds (even if i disagree with you on that point). Your server doesn't give the same game experience as the other vanilla servers, i'm not saying it's a bad thing, i'm just saying it shouldn't be used for hive points, especially when you can have a closed sytem (like gathers) where some players only play in one place.

In the end it doesn't prevent you from using hive point for shuffle. Though I do believe we need 2 whitelist, one very strict (vanilla only) for skill point and one more laxist for hive score

HEllrunner2k

Tinki wrote: »

Your server doesn't give the same game experience as the other vanilla servers.

Yeeez.. I HOPE not ... we like tight, strategic games that are balanced ^^ ... no seriously... the gore from 100 to 95 is a higher impact on the game experience than going from 7v7 up to 10v10 ??? ... say THAT with a straight face XD

Tinki

" Yours very little" (that's my straight face)

The_Welsh_Wizard

Both servers should not be whitelisted. Luckily the changes on hellrunners seem to be only small ones, but still it is just bad to have too many different balance variants. I don't even like the segregation of the game with vanilla and comp mod, when every server now runs its own balance changes... no thanks. I don't want to play a different game everytime I switch servers. The sounds are bad too. You are not used to it. It takes longer to react to the requests because you are just not used to it. There is no reason at all to change the default sounds. I still play on the server because its 7v7, but it is really the only reason.

HEllrunner2k

well.. We'll rerecord em to fit em better in the soundscape... but the message is quicker and more precise.. It's also the foundation for a more detaled upgrade alert system that's not yet in place. and I TOTALLY agree with you @The_Welsh_Wizard there should be a floating balance in the game that reacts to playercount (like second IPs and Spawn ques) but in depth so rines are not OP on high player counts and Aliens not on low ones like it's the case since EVER ^^ till then I keep focusing on the 7v7 format ... maybe I should release a 7v7 mod .. with all the goodies (local talk, Fade Meta and everything) ... without the new alerts tho.. they should be HB exclusive... and then when you join a different 7v7 you can be ensured of the HB quality experience if the mod is running.. if not, you know where to find us ^^

Tinki

" NS3 : HB Experience " confirmed !

Vetinari

HEllrunner2k wrote: »

Tinki wrote: »

Your server doesn't give the same game experience as the other vanilla servers.

Yeeez.. I HOPE not ... we like tight, strategic games that are balanced ^^ ... no seriously... the gore from 100 to 95 is a higher impact on the game experience than going from 7v7 up to 10v10 ??? ... say THAT with a straight face XD

I imagine removing the ability of an onos to one-hit-kill a fully medded zero-armor marine is a actually quite a big change in pub. (One that I like, too. Onos are real game changers atm in pub.)

HEllrunner2k

that's the idea, yes @F0rdPrefect it doesn't match the experience change that you get from upping to 10v10 tho... that's WAY more significant.

nemo

Now is not the time to be upsetting people who are trying hard to improve things. Have we learned nothing?

The reality of the situation;

1. The impact on the skill system is trivial.
2. The servers affected are some of the most populated servers.
3. You are annoying someone who is spending a lot of time trying to improve NS2 by not whitelisting

You can always revisit this at a later date. For now it should be whitelisted.

2cough

@mofo someone said last time luckyfkrs was brought up that they opted out of the whitelist per their own request.

I guess the idea is that ppl don't get uptight about their elo during games there.

Foxy

Compmod should not now nor ever be whitelisted
</my2pence>

Pelargir

Foxy wrote: »

Compmod should not now nor ever be whitelisted
</my2pence>

Would be a good idea (sarcasm). Any veteran or new player playing competitive would just see their ELO fickle. I think I don't need to explain how bad would it be for public games with even more unbalanced teams since the competitive players would be poorly distributed. And let's set aside 40% of the active community by telling them all their competitive games will not be taken into account.

HEllrunner2k

nah ... that's not the solution.. @ unwhitelist everyone... just accept that Hive is not perfect but the best you can do and whitlelist ppl that request it. Don't put your damn data gathering over the fun of your customers! They balanced StarCraft 2 based on the beta data in the begining.. It was a mess. Balance is work and not listening to ppl that play the game on a daily basis is ... not that smart. Just acknowledge that the balance is never perfect in asymetric mp with changing player counts and SUPPORT the ppl that try to find solutions for it.. don't exclude em all together cuz you don't understand yet.

wooza

MoFo1 wrote: »

The ns2large servers are so extremely bad (both performance and balance wise)

www.apheriox.com/wonitor for "balance issues" (I am refering to my servers not NS2Large servers in general).

And regarding server performance: Check the Performance Rating or actually join the server and check for yourself.

I am not starting now a discussion why my server are whitelisted and Hellarious Basterds is not.

HEllrunner2k

this is not about your servers, man @wooza ... they are perfectly fine the way they are ^^ I tried to get the discussion away from that.

Nordic

wooza wrote: »

And regarding server performance: Check the Performance Rating or actually join the server and check for yourself.

I am glad your server is there for the large community that wants it. I just don't agree with you on the performance. I have about as good client performance as I can expect. I have a i5 3570k @ 4.6ghz with a 970. The last few times I have joined your server, once in recent months, it has been incredibly laggy.

ShellMo

Just to clarify - when I mention Woozas or any other server not quite Vanilla it's not because I believe they shouldn't be whitelisted. I just think that if a server so far from what is considered vanilla can and is connected to Hive, why not others? Especially given the tweet shown in the OP from January.

HEllrunner2k

Every one knows you always mean well, @ShellMo ^^ .... I think wooza took offense in some comments calling his server names, wich I find sad too, given the nessecity of em... ya know.. keeping the advertised promisses of the trailers and all ^^

wooza

Nordic wrote: »

I just don't agree with you on the performance. I have about as good client performance as I can expect. I have a i5 3570k @ 4.6ghz with a 970. The last few times I have joined your server, once in recent months, it has been incredibly laggy.

@Nordic That must have been when b279 came out which was really a neckbreaker for my servers. How can I manage to keep 2 servers full every day when they perform crap. High slot numbers does not mean it's easier to make a server popular. Infact it is very painful to manage such servers and rarely no one knows how much time I spent into to make the server enjoyable for most peoplle. The server runs degraded network specs now to avoid the many interpolation fails and warnings that exist since b279 till now. I have not heard any news from the devs yet. About 90% playing now without any issues, the rest has usually connection issues to my provider or playing on a potato