Removing the Terraformer

AlphaBlueArxAlphaBlueArx Join Date: 2015-05-11 Member: 204402Members
Are the devs really going to remove it? why?
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Comments

  • VexareVexare Austin,TX Join Date: 2016-01-05 Member: 210942Members
    Wait ... what?

    Noooooo! I hope this is not true. I've not seen this mentioned anywhere.

    I love the terraformer tool - it's great! Why remove it? It *does* cause some framerate stuttering if you use it 'excessively' (Do NOT unleash your 6 year old with one.... mass destruction ensues!) :open_mouth: but for normal play - it works great! I used it to create a completely enclosed artificial lagoon to test my fish release studies! I guess I better get some screenshots of that before it's gone!
  • R2T9R2T9 United States Join Date: 2016-01-03 Member: 210867Members
  • lxhlxh Austria Join Date: 2015-03-13 Member: 202074Members
    edited January 2016
    Hmmm, that's one application, Vexare, and I like you for that. But the other one is to cheat your way in and out of all the laboriously designed and hard to explore caves .. once detected by sonar. Yes yes ... there are two sides to every coin.

    Edit: Another reason could be the game engine itself. Don't know how much the luxury of a totally transformable terrain might cost, but it seems that we're getting performance issues already.
  • VexareVexare Austin,TX Join Date: 2016-01-05 Member: 210942Members
    lxh wrote: »
    Hmmm, that's one application, Vexare, and I like you for that. But the other one is to cheat your way in and out of all the laboriously designed and hard to explore caves .. once detected by sonar. Yes yes ... there are two sides to every coin.

    But a player can already 'cheat' pretty much anything they need via console commands so I don't see how the terraformer makes any difference to a player's choice to play legit or not. :(

  • SpacedInvaderSpacedInvader Join Date: 2016-01-08 Member: 211083Members
    Vexare wrote: »
    lxh wrote: »
    Hmmm, that's one application, Vexare, and I like you for that. But the other one is to cheat your way in and out of all the laboriously designed and hard to explore caves .. once detected by sonar. Yes yes ... there are two sides to every coin.

    But a player can already 'cheat' pretty much anything they need via console commands so I don't see how the terraformer makes any difference to a player's choice to play legit or not. :(

    Don't forget though that the console will probably be going away at some point. Its really only there for testing purposes so that playtesters can load anything immediately.
  • VexareVexare Austin,TX Join Date: 2016-01-05 Member: 210942Members
    Vexare wrote: »
    lxh wrote: »
    Hmmm, that's one application, Vexare, and I like you for that. But the other one is to cheat your way in and out of all the laboriously designed and hard to explore caves .. once detected by sonar. Yes yes ... there are two sides to every coin.

    But a player can already 'cheat' pretty much anything they need via console commands so I don't see how the terraformer makes any difference to a player's choice to play legit or not. :(

    Don't forget though that the console will probably be going away at some point. Its really only there for testing purposes so that playtesters can load anything immediately.

    Ah I did not know that.

    In my mind, a single-player sandbox game is not really a 'cheating' type of game because who are you competing against? Yourself. If one can't just play the game as it was intended and has to find cheats - well - I just don't know what would force them to do so as they choose to cheat. Removing a tool that does that is like telling someone they can only play in the sandbox with their hands and not a shovel. It's all fun and games until someone gets sand in their eyes. ;)

  • raven0akraven0ak finalnd Join Date: 2016-01-15 Member: 211425Members
    think its part of story updating also ... back in december you were still part of terraforming team that crash landed on planet. as of jan you are part of mining crew:)
  • BIPPITYBIPPITY England Join Date: 2015-06-06 Member: 205283Members
    Charlie Flayra said on his twitter that its because in Subnautica you aren't supposed to go around destroying everything, hence the lack of lethal weapons and the Terraformer is literally a destroy everything tool.
  • JacaraJacara Washington Join Date: 2015-06-11 Member: 205391Members
    Considering the advanced tech, I think it would be a strange absence to not be able to build or remove terrain. That said, I will be ok with its removal if, and only if, all structures have tightly controlled collision meshes. I really can't stand when you place a structure and it eats away enough land to build two of them, or it leaves an ugly square plot when its a round room.

    This so much, rooms are the big offenders of this and I use the terrafomer to cover my base back up. Also to unstick the Cyclops in its many many foul modes lol
  • TheJewelOfJoolTheJewelOfJool Southwestern Ontario Join Date: 2016-01-11 Member: 211261Members
    Exactly. Also, make base supports extend further.
  • RequiemfangRequiemfang Join Date: 2015-02-22 Member: 201492Members
    Vexare wrote: »
    Exactly. Also, make base supports extend further.

    Before I created an artificial lagoon reef, this was the main reason I used the terraformer. I noticed that the 'legs' of base platforms often did not extend properly on all sides if placed on incline/decline type surfaces so it was nice to build up a little earth underneath to make it appear more realistic.

    I also used the terraformer to make a power conduit tunnel from the geo-thermal vent (and my platform of generators) through the hill to my main base. I was careful not to disturb the surface flora/fauna and closed the tunnel off when I was done connecting the two sides. This was great fun and I'll be sad if these sorts of modified ideas are no longer possible. I honestly don't care if someone wants to use the terraformer to 'cheat' their way down into a cavern ... it's their game and their world - do with it as you will you have only yourself to blame if you wreck it.

    Now if it's being removed because of performance issues on console game platforms, then remove it from platform console gaming OS only. Leave it for those who can handle it on PC.

    I agree with this completely
  • R2T9R2T9 United States Join Date: 2016-01-03 Member: 210867Members
    I recall that the reason they are removing it is because it uses up to much space. Altering the terrain like that uses up a lot of data and storage in the game files, and they don't want that. Or something along those lines. I'll try and find where that was.
  • SpacedInvaderSpacedInvader Join Date: 2016-01-08 Member: 211083Members
    R2T9 wrote: »
    I recall that the reason they are removing it is because it uses up to much space. Altering the terrain like that uses up a lot of data and storage in the game files, and they don't want that. Or something along those lines. I'll try and find where that was.

    I would like to see this.
  • PiscatorPiscator Belgium Join Date: 2016-01-15 Member: 211434Members
    Another Trello card has been posted yesterday, making the things even worst : the Rock Puncher (the big guy in action) is being compromised. The devs wrote a note about this : "This guy is on the chopping block, especially now that we likely won't be terraforming the terrain."

    Another reason to beg UWE to keep the terraforming option available ? This seems clear for me, because I felt very impatient to encounter such a creature ... :'(
  • XadieXadie Germany Join Date: 2015-11-06 Member: 209020Members
    edited January 2016
    Piscator wrote: »
    Another Trello card has been posted yesterday, making the things even worst : the Rock Puncher (the big guy in action) is being compromised. The devs wrote a note about this : "This guy is on the chopping block, especially now that we likely won't be terraforming the terrain."

    They could just rename him and repurpose his Punching as way to attack his prey like the mantis shrimp on earth.... and could still destroy bases... So no need to put it on the choping block devs!
  • LightdevilLightdevil Austria Join Date: 2015-06-10 Member: 205381Members, Subnautica Playtester
    Aslong as they have enough diversity in the fauna in the end im okey with the rockpuncher dying a quick death. Theres so many creatures that could be just as awesome, im sure its not gonna be one creature less, its gonna be another idea replacing the rockpuncher, maybe that one will be even better :)
  • XadieXadie Germany Join Date: 2015-11-06 Member: 209020Members
    Sure they could replace the creature but thats like flushing down all the money they spend on creating the assets for it. :|
  • RequiemfangRequiemfang Join Date: 2015-02-22 Member: 201492Members
    Xadie wrote: »
    Sure they could replace the creature but thats like flushing down all the money they spend on creating the assets for it. :|

    true enough but remember if or when the development team decides or gets around to it, they have those extra assets for later in case they decide to make another game (possibly one that has co-op or multiplayer) or a DLC/expansion. Assets made for one game can be used in another if it isn't used for the game it was originally intended for, of course this is assuming it's specifically designed to be used in a certain game engine or not.
  • XadieXadie Germany Join Date: 2015-11-06 Member: 209020Members
    @Requiemfang They could but thats asking a lot. Apart of delaying a possible return of investment by a large margin (that would most likely be something like 2 years or more) it's questionable that the asset orignally intended for one game fits the art direction of another.
  • RequiemfangRequiemfang Join Date: 2015-02-22 Member: 201492Members
    not entirely true Xadie. Assuming they're using the same engine for the next game and not making or switching to a new one, the model itself (I can't be sure if it was specifically designed for the unity engine) can be used in another game. The X-Series of games up to X3: Albion Prelude used assets from previous games, hell even some of those assets were modder made. They were able to make use of those assets in the games because they all used the same exact engine. Also some assets from those previous games actually did make it into X Rebirth. Specifically for the Split race.

    Anyways as for the investment return the development team could and in my opinion should only make use of these assets they cut from the game after they've released the game fully from Alpha into the post early access phase. Developers for games don't just stop making games after one product is done. They will still be doing patches every once and a while to address bugs and other strangeness, no game is bug free completely. Besides that they'll be able to focus their attention on a new game or if they so wish to do it an addition to the game through a DLC or Expansion.
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members
    Maybe the terraformer is still good for the creative mode and only cut out from story modes (freedom, survival, etc.)
  • rhys_elcinsrhys_elcins UK Join Date: 2016-01-26 Member: 212148Members
    As far as I'm concerned..... (and this comes from no prior knowledge/experience)
    you could make it so that the only thing the terraformer does is allow base modules to excavate space around themselves (instead of you needing to manually evacuate space, or perhaps it allows you to 'dig' rock round them as well as sand?)

    but if someone's willing to 'cheat' on a single player game - what do they win? a reduced sense of accomplishment
    perhaps have it in an options menu with a warning 'the use of this item to access otherwise inaccessible areas is considered as good as cheating by many'?

    but for the (comparatively) legitimate uses I've been putting it to (building a platform up near the surface for my solar panels, and a ledge to put foundations on) it's not game breaking, it's game MAKING
  • DinkelsenDinkelsen Graz Join Date: 2015-10-05 Member: 208309Members
    Maybe removing the terraformer has technical reasons. I can think of 2, both of them have to do with terrain that cannot be changed:

    1.) Fixed terrain has fixed precalculated or hand-crafted LODs. At the moment terrain seems to be calculated when you enter an area. The game will stutter while the voxels are loaded and made into a mash that is displayed. This could be avoided with predefinied unalterable terrain, which only has to be loaded. There also are visible seams between terrain at different detail levels, this could also be adressed. (I must admit, I am guessing here, but it does make sense to me)

    2.) The terraformer allows us to bypass terrain constraints and go to places where we "should not". Maybe there will be areas that should be off limits, but we could cheat our way past those barriers with the Terraformer.
  • rhys_elcinsrhys_elcins UK Join Date: 2016-01-26 Member: 212148Members
    Sorry @Dinkelsen - but only #1 is a technical reason, #2 is a moral reason, which I discussed immediately above you....
    actually, thinking about your reason #1 - what happens when you level a mountain top with base units/corridors etc?
  • DinkelsenDinkelsen Graz Join Date: 2015-10-05 Member: 208309Members
    @rhys_elcins: You are right #2 is not a technical reason, the sentence is not clear. I didn't want to say that both reasons are technical reasons, just that I could think of two reasons - plus, there may be technical reasons, too, not only game design reasons. I didn't get that point across, the sentence is poorly worded. That and I did not see it from a "moral" point of view (even if I used the word "cheat") and I disagree that I repeated your argument.

    I saw it from an "accessability" point of view: You have to get somewhere where you cannot. I do not know why, maybe the crack is not wide enough or whatever. Now the seasoned player would just think: "hey thats a use for the Terraformer" and whip it out and go in. Maybe that is not the intended way to solve this problem. Maybe you "should" craft a tiny remote controlled drone or something... I have absolutely no idea why this is suddenly such a big deal, but it seems to be a big deal, soe Trello cards indicate that. Using the Terraformer in this situation wouldn't be cheating - even if I used the word, it would be using a legit toll available to the player that made him (or her) a little too powerful. Or one that he wasn't to have.

    But... if #2 was the only reason, well a Terraformer-proof material could still be implemented... So it must be something else or a combination if things.

    As for leveling mountaintops with bases... I don't know. Maybe this will not be possible in the future?

    I do not know anything for sure, I am speculating, but I wanted to look at this situation from a game developers point of view and not from a gamer-gets-taken-his-favorite-toy point of view. Because, there are always more than one point of view.
  • AlphaBlueArxAlphaBlueArx Join Date: 2015-05-11 Member: 204402Members
    Leveling mountain tops with bases?

    You'd need a lot of titanium to do so.

    Personally I hope they don't remove this capacity or placing the modules will become very difficult, especially the rooms and the moonpool.
  • JacaraJacara Washington Join Date: 2015-06-11 Member: 205391Members
    Leveling mountain tops with bases?

    You'd need a lot of titanium to do so.

    Personally I hope they don't remove this capacity or placing the modules will become very difficult, especially the rooms and the moonpool.

    I was hoping that they would put in terrain that can't be removed that way we still can have fun and not cause problems.
  • AlphaBlueArxAlphaBlueArx Join Date: 2015-05-11 Member: 204402Members
    Well...I could see their point.

    Though it could become a doozie for my base construction style ^^

    I like to built long sections encased in the rocks. ^^
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