Weapons?
sayerulz
oregon Join Date: 2015-04-15 Member: 203493Members
oregon Join Date: 2015-04-15 Member: 203493Members
I have seen a lot of people mentioning weapons, and a response I often see is that the game should not have any weapons besides the knife, as it is not meant to be combat oriented. But my thinking is this: They are planing on adding all sorts of big scary monsters (Reaper Leviathan, Crabsnake, Sea Emporer, ECT.) that a way to fight them only makes sense. Otherwise, you will just have them roaming around the map killing you, or hanging out in a spot and making it so you cant go there, which is just no fun. So I would like to know what people think are good ideas for weapons, or weather or not you think they should even be in the game. I personally like the idea of spots on the Cyclops where you can build turrets.
Comments
forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2237059#Comment_2237059
One which I think fits nicely is the idea of a net gun which can capture creatures to then be stored/studied/trained as pets later on. That way it is both a functional weapon for self defense as well as for exploration purposes.
feel like it would be good to have a disscusion for people who want to talk about weapon ideas without sorting through stuff about new creatures and biomes. Those are important, but I want to talk firepower. As for the net gun, I think that is a great idea, and one I suspect they might add, but what im mostly thinking of is stuff to deal with the real big boys, the "bosses" as I see them.
A big part of the game is actually putting the player in a position of vulnerability. You are NOT the big badass at the top of the food chain. You are the outsider. You don't belong. And you are in danger. This is fundamental to the premise of the game: explore and survive, escape and outsmart the dangers. And you use intelligence and resourcefullness (a human's ability to BUILD and adapt) to counter the dangers of the wild, not brute force.
That's why weapons DON'T make sense. I mean really, It's like you are all playing a car racing game and you say "boy, wouldn't it make sense if we could like, fly a jet in this?" Of course it wouldn't.
Besides, is that the best we can do? Guns? Torpedos? How about taking a chance to be creative for once? That's why there are so many shooters out there. People can't think outside the box.
Guns are the uncreative, boring, mediocre, dime-a-dozen answer for First-Person gameplay. I hope these developers can do better than that.
The Devs want a different game, so it shall be
Shark sticks, for example, don't blow the sharks to bits, they give them a bit of a jolt which drives them off.
Lethal weapons in a game where lethal weapons make *no* sense is just stupid, when there are non-lethal options.
It's just a game, and you don't actually die, you respawn and an easy way to not lose your items is to store anything important back at your base.
But what about all the huge monsters they are planing on adding? we have all seen bone sharks find there way to the escape pod and camp there, which isnt so much of a problem. But what if the reaper leviathan decides to do the same thing? I also dont want the game to be about fighting, but I dont see how they can have these huge hostile mobs without a good way to defend against them. I do like the idea of driveing them off rather than killing them outright though. Some sort of shock laser maby?
Actually what he says makes a LOT of sense, and I can tell you why. Man originally wasn't at the top of the food chain until we developed WEAPONS. What does the military use to combat a large threat? BIG. WEAPONS. If he said we should start with automatic death rays, i could easily see your point. But you're saying we have to let these giant creatures stomp all over us as we try to explore the world, search for awesome items and build possibly a colony-sized base? THAT doesn't make sense. I think the weapons should be something along the lines of a large javelin-like harpoon that takes massive skill to fire right because of aquatic physics thats hooked either to your base or sub, and you should have a very limited amount. Also, maybe a machete or ice-pick like weapon to combat smaller mobs better. But if i have to save every 2 seconds because a sea emperor decided to counter-kite me back home, the devs are doing something wrong. Also your "jet in a racecar game" analogy is ridiculous. This is an undersea game, with undersea happenings, requiring undersea solutions. Sayerulz, you have 100% support from me.
I understand what you mean, but... a "Shark Stick" also known as a "Bang Stick" is not a non-lethal weapon... It's essentially a shotgun shell on a stick... lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerhead
I would think an electrical discharge weapon/turret would be an obvious choice as it is how electric eels catch prey by stunning them, in real life a mild EM field can be used to dissuade aquatic predators sharks by overloading their electroreceptors. A similar device could be implemented in game as a passive/active defense/offense against larger predators with the obvious short range and high energy draw penalty.
The stasis rifle can be quite powerful (although I don't really like the concept of it), but I feel like it should not be effective on really big things, like the Reaper Leviathan. I would rather have some sort of shock-laser thing that can drive them away, that is too big to be carried, and so must be mounted on a sub. As for the monsters being bound to to an area, I think this will likely be how they do it, but they will still be making that area pretty inacessable. I,m not saying they should add nuke-torpedos with which you can blow up everything, I'm just sugesting that we need some weapons beyond a knife an a weird freeze-ray thingy.
Thanks. I actually think that a jet in a racecar game would be really cool
"You are NOT the big badass at the top of the food chain. You are the outsider. You don't belong"
Just as if it were a real life situation, defense or not, what right would be have to start blowing the natives to bits?
We should let them gnaw on our various limbs and or organs, it's only courteous, we did come along to their planet uninvited xD
I'm on the fence about lethal weapons, I don't really want to give myself a set of guns and kill my way through the ocean, but I wouldn't be against automated defensive structures for colonies using turrets like Mass Drivers or Directed Energy Weapons. Something that would more wound the big creatures to the point where they limp away holding their wounds. I'm not a hyper violent person, but I'd like to make the nasties think twice about messing with my base or submarine.
But I'd be up for non-lethal weaponry too, such as weaponized sonar pulses designed to cause discomfort in sea creatures and thus force them out of the area or repulsor fields designed to do much the same thing but be more like an actual shield that would require you to set up a perimeter of generators etc. I would also support things like noise makers for distraction and flash bangs for disorientation etc. Perhaps even an expansion on flares, to either scare or attract fish.
The points about lethal weapons have some ground, but I feel that the reasoning itself is invalid as it is not courteous to come to their planet uninvited and let them eat us, when creatures prove hostile intent the swiftest and most common response from humans is to shoot the hostile creature, not cuddle it. Remember that, you were part of a habitation vessel sent to make the planet livable for humans, that would imply you were coming to completely change up their homes without their consent, had the habitation vessel not crashed, it stands to reason they would have lethal weaponry on board in the event that the natives were hostile. This point is further reinforced by giving you tools such as a terraformer.
However the point about them does hold some ground in the sense that it would make the game a little too easy, all you do is explore for enough resources for a big Mass Driver and then nothing is off limits because you can kill anything. I wouldn't want the game to become about murdering everything in sight, but I would like something bigger than a pocket knife to take on/hold off a Reaper Leviathan.
1. Humans don't think, we know we are at the top of the food chain. We are considered an apex predator, a predator that is never prey. Why? Again, because we can fashion the tools to survive AND thrive. Sure, we could build enough so that we can stay out of the sea emperor/reaper leviathan/crab snake's zone, but then what's the point of going there if we can't do anything about them while our hunger, thirst, oxygen, and power dwindle away because we want to hug mushroom trees all day?
2. They are not sentient. they are monsters who have no tribe, no caste system, no friends, enemies, etc. All they have is instinct. Perhaps they have enough brain power to coordinate an attack, but the attack comes from instinct. To say that we'd be repeating the process of America is 100% incorrect. To say that we were taking matters into our own hands by crafting weapons to deal with these great beasts IS correct.
3. If humankind was the outsider to a foreign planet, and the locals there said "you don't belong here. I'm gonna tear you limb from limb." I'm pretty sure we wouldn't say "nuh uh i got a fort in your pool!". These things are after our meat. I say we deny them with heavy, but balanced firepower. Believe me, i don't want some underwater infinite ammo spartan laser blasting through harmless coral just as much as the next guy. But i do believe we deserve a fighting chance against the buggers. Even if the weapons are poorly accurate, low damage, minimal ammo, hard to master, so be it. It'd be nice to know that i could at least go up against a crab snake with a little more than a butter knife. I also think they should require a pretty large amount of materials if they're to be any good.
And for the person who said "they'll be given restrictions as to where they can go" that doesn't really help me or anyone else get past them to GET to the aurora if that's their biome. And not for nothing, but as for right now, and as far as i see in the pretty decent future, this is a SINGLEPLAYER game. So what if some guys beating the hell out of a peeper with a crowbar? you can't see it anyway. It's all your choice. If you don't want weapons, simply don't make them. But i think at least the schematics for the tools to survive should be passed onto us, so that we aren't constantly saying "NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE" all the way back to our escape pod, clutching our keyboard and crying softly in the corner, knowing your last save was over 2 hours ago. Just my opinion, not trying to hate on other's ideas, but it just seems silly to leave these things alone because we're the alien and they want our tasty insides.
Humans can't survive in the wild beyond our weapons, As a species, we may think we're at the top of the heap, but we are evolutionary failures.
Why do you think we have to spend years learning what other animals know from birth?
If Earth were to ever be thrust into some sort of apocalypse, humans would be the first to dye out because we'd end up killing each other first.
It is that kind of mental processing that has driven many of Earths animals to extinction, the Black Rhino is now extinct because of people who believe we can do what we wish because of our weapons. When, compared to most of the animal species on earth, Humans are newborns, only having been around a few hundred thousand years, compared to, well, the rhino, which has been around for several million.
That being said, You are no listening to the fact that this game is about exploration, survival and studying these creatures, not killing them. The biggest weapon we're likely to get is a netgun or something like a shark stick.
Stick a bunch of high powered weapons into a survival game and it no longer becomes a survival game.
Clearly we're not failures otherwise we already would not exist. You're right, humanity as a whole has evolved to use tools to survive, we have things like clothing, man made shelter and other creature comforts that comfort us. This is not a sign of evolutionary failure, it is a sign of our cognitive prowess. For example, when out camping, we're cold, we make a fire and sit around it to stay warm. When a forest creature is cold, it does not make fire, as it does not have the coginitive prowess required to do so.
You're indeed correct that if you take away all the tools humans are, in essence the weakest of the species, but taking away those tools is essentially taking away that which makes us human in the first place. The problem is your point appears to be for naught. We were not sent to this planet with the intention of studying and cuddling all the big scary sea monsters, no, that was the job of the colonists who were coming next. No. Our job was to come in, terraform the planet, make it livable for colonists, this includes subduing or removing any perceived threat. So implying the necessary tools were not brought along to do so, would be like implying we didn't bring the keg to a keg party. Or didn't bring the hammer to the construction job.
It is impossible to argue that we would be stripped of all of our tools and such, considering we have the capacity to build a giant, functioning submarine, sprawling undersea complexes and an abundance of resources, including things such as magnesium and diamond. You also have to consider the survival aspect, what is the first thing a stranded human makes after fire? Either a primitive axe or a primitive spear, depending on location and what it's needed for. Either way it's a weapon, used to ensure their survival.
I for one know if I was stranded, and had the opportunity to procure a fire-arm that might help to ensure my survival, I would certainly not say no. Also say what you will about shark sticks, but I ain't getting anywhere near a reaper leviathan with a stick, that'd be akin to slashing at it with our butter knives.
Also your statement that putting weapons into a survival game turns it into not a survival game is false, entirely false. Putting weapons into a survival game just provides another tool to aid in ones survival, if some psychotic fellow decides he's going to use them to blow apart every bit of coral in his way, let him, it's his digital world, his digital fantasy, not yours. No matter what you put in a game, the game will always be what you make of it.
If the issue of weapons is REALLY that big of an issue, offer two settings,
"Coral Hugger" for those modern age hippies who want to cuddle the leviathan instead of hurt it (All Weapons Disabled/Unavailable including the pocket knife)
and
"Sane Survivalist" for those of us who would like to actually survive past the first day. (A game with weapons enabled)
*Edit: Totally just noticed I pasted my profile link into the quote when I made it.
Humankind does not live in an illusion of being on top, and like i've been saying and you just proved my point, is that it is because of our ability to craft weapons. the game is about survival you said, correct? survival isnt just about making it to the next day curled up in a ball in the corner, last i checked. survival is about making sure you have more than bare minimum, so that you can not only survive, but THRIVE. you also said its about exploration, so have fun exploring past that monster that just ripped your ship in half because you were to worried about what the game would turn into with weapons to bother with some sort of defensive plan. if we don't have weapons, the exploration part of this game may as well not exist, because they have plans to add highly aggressive, extremely strong/fast/cunning creatures the likes of which you and i have never seen. so while you may think "weapons dont help us survive" believe me they DO. look at stranded deep, minecraft, salt, and just about every other survival game. 99% of them have weapons, and none of those weapons make it less of a survival game, if anything they make it more of one. why? because you just SURVIVED an encounter with a dangerous animal, thanks to that bow you made. weaponry itself isn't the issue, its the balancing act that will have to come with it, because i can almost guarantee a sea emperor is going to be programmed to send your cute little cyclops named helga into next week. how would you prevent that? not going past the sea emperor's domain? there goes exploration. AND there goes studying it, because you cant get close enough to it without it demolishing you. again, im not saying we need all the guns in the world, but if man knows the tools he needs to survive and thrive, hes going to make them. honestly i cannot fathom how a weapon could possibly take a survival games plot and twist it into "CONQUER ALL THE THINGS" if they are merely used for self-defense, and day to day needs, because after all, a weapon is a tool, and any tool can be a weapon, much like your knife that you use to cut seaweed or break rocks easier. but you dont want weapons right? so yeah just throw it in the trash, its not gonna help you do anything in this game.
They have said many times the won't be putting lethal weapons in simply because that isn't what the game is about
I dont go through their patch notes/dev notes/ threads enough. i just feel the player deserves a fighting chance against these beasts, but youre right that whatever the devs wanna do is whats going to happen. i just dont like when people say that killing in a videogame makes that videogame entirely about killing and nothing else.
Mod Support. Mod support is what can make a game thrive, or kill it off. For example, look at what space engineers did, there were a lot of things that players wished for, that went against the dev's initial plan, things like massive rail guns and such. The developers opened up to mod support and now the game is a roaring success, why? Because everyone is happy. It could work for Subnautica too, the Devs can continue to develop the game the way they want it to be, without lethal weaponry and exactly on track with their goals. This would satisfy the crowd who agree with the devs that it's all about science and exploration and not about murder.
Then for the crowds who cry out for a super death ray to sweep the ocean with, we can simply answer "There's a mod for that." Provided you can attract some good enough mod makers, and games like Subnautica, stranded deep etc etc are havens for mod makers, much like minecraft is. Perhaps integrate steam workshop support to streamline the mod installation so that anyone can use them, no matter how tech un-savvy they are. Then that would satisfy the crowd who wish to take their game further. People like myself, who don't particularly want to kill the ocean creatures, but they do wish to scare them off with a very big rail guns. Mod support would of course allow for fan created creatures, scripts, tools, submarines etc, it wouldn't be all about guns.
The other good thing is that offering mod support means all of that content is entirely optional, nobody forces you to even acknowledge it is there, and that should, in theory satisfy every crowd to at least some degree.
Edit: I totally didn't see the above post, I apologise but I fully agree with Kodasa.
Definety a good idea, the game should have mod support and a workshop. However, there still needs to be some way to cope with crabsnakes and such in vanilla, since having the game unplayable by default is obviously no good. However, it will be good to have mods to give you the option of super-death rays if you want it.
I'm sure the devs have something planned involving non lethal weapons, stuff to scare or distract it. So the game won't be unplayable, it will simply be different. Maybe they'll offer a way to subjugate them and put them in a zoo or something, if they added repulsor fields/sonic fences then we could potentially make our own under water zoo.
Having weapons of a lethal variety would purely be for mods, and people using mods would be able to murder their way through as much of the ocean as they please or defend themselves against whatever they please with lethal force. As I said. Mod support = Everybody happy. Provided there are good enough mod makers on the task, and as I said earlier, there should be, considering how popular survival/exploration games are with mod makers most of the time.