Just going to remind everyone that NS2 has been exceptional in remaining active for so long. You'd be hard-pressed to find many non-AAA games out there that can retain this many players for this long.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2015
Some mentioned CS:Go here.
Here are my 2 cents why CS:Go is so successfull:
1. Valve did an amazing job with implementing clansupport and preparation for competitive play.
You can watch running matches ingame with one click.
The top clanplayers are like popstars.
Official ranked pub rounds only played in an 5v5 environment. So new players play in the same environment like the pros and learning the game that way.
If you want to play on large community servers, you have to live with no rank improvements.
If you leave a match on an official ranked server midgame, you get an penalty up to a week or more (try something like that in NS2, would be funny how people react. In CS:Go this is normal)
In NS2:
Top clanplayers "destroying" the game when they playing pub.
New players end on the 42 wooza clusteruck and learning how bad NS2 can be (balance and perfomance wise)
Rage quits are normal.
There is no ingame info about clanactivitys.
2. Perfomance
The 11 year old HL2 engine is running on an toaster with 30 fps. So its playable on every 9 year old 3,50€ Office Laptop.
Sad thing is: it looks exactly like that: A 11 year old game with some little shader effects.
But:
CS:Go wants to be a competitive game. Does a game like this need super fancy Graphic effects?
No.
All the competitive players are playing NS2 on minimum settings anyway.
In NS2:
Well you need an average PC to get playble FPS. But the problem with these FPS since ages is: They dont feel like FPS in other games.
70 fps in CS:Go are smooth in NS2 its a stutterfest.
3. Skins
There people out there who are willing to pay 3€ for an random weapon skin.
Why? i dont know . But it seems something like this attracts a special type of players.
"Uh look, i have the super rare AK47 wich "cost" 800€"
Valve did an amazing job here also to bind these type of players to the game.
NS2 had the potential to be an great e-sport game.
But everything you need to be that isnt in the game.
Now its too late.
Its the fault from everyone:
- UWE didnt put enough effort (or didnt had the time) to implement the things from above.
- Serveradmins hacking the server.exe to host servers wich the engine cant handle and breaking the balance
- Rookie farming is and was normal for an special type of players.
So, if NS2 is dead (wich is not the case), EVERYONE (Developer, Serveradmins, Player) was helping here to get to this point.
Just because there are 4-6 servers out there that hold more than 24 players is in no way going to kill the game. That is just crazy talk.
I believe his point is that Wooza has a very steady population, therefore attracts a lot of first-time or new players (because there's almost at any time a game going on and a slot available). At the same time, it makes them play a game in a scale it wasn't designed or balanced for, learning the mechanics in a way that simply don't work on a normal-sized server.
Just because there are 4-6 servers out there that hold more than 24 players is in no way going to kill the game. That is just crazy talk.
I believe his point is that Wooza has a very steady population, therefore attracts a lot of first-time or new players (because there's almost at any time a game going on and a slot available). At the same time, it makes them play a game in a scale it wasn't designed or balanced for, learning the mechanics in a way that simply don't work on a normal-sized server.
And the magnet effect on older players of course.
Most player who goes on wooza won't help much while they could seed some servers.
Make at least one map with open spaces. Many people dislike to play in confined spaces.
Can't really do anything about it if people dislike it, making a map full of Cargo-esque rooms simply breaks the game, which in turn would cause even more uproar.
Besides, I've never really heard anyone complain about the maps having too little space in some areas.
I'd like to see some new weapons/abilities. For example, something like a heavy pistol or dual wielding pistols. It doesn't create a new role, just does the existing pistol's role in a different way. Less ammo, slower fire rate, higher damage. Just something to switch things up a little, keep things interesting.
I like the idea of weapon skins, but maybe something a little more than a redone texture. A new or modded weapon model? I've seen some pretty cool weapon models made by the community. Maybe use some of those if the creators are still around and something can get worked out?
if a player join >> Kill that bot and replace with new connected player ^^
Good idea , and if im developers i will do match making like CSGO ( simple is put everyone that have test ping <250ms to one server)
Everyone hates bots. If it's 6 vs 5 and you add a bot to even the teams, you'll clear out the server. There is at least one person on the server like me who would leave immediately. And then you'd have to add more bots, and then more people would leave. It's a downward spiral.
@schu This is common knowledge thanks to news articles with graphs from Valve.. but it never ever credited Matchmaking??
In fact the large success was from the added content, as you pointed out.
Observe:
CSGO's "Queue" Matchmaking was introduced October 2012.. notice how little that impacts the graph? The free weekend is what pulled it up.
Still, at least they had 12,000 players with which to match..
It's pretty clear that matchmaking alone with a playercount of 500 players would do absolutely nothing.
But if you included tons of new content and updates and free weekends, maybe you can spike those numbers and finally keep them with something as fostering as matchmaking and tutorials..
Maybe he dealt with it later but...I thought Schu said this:
"On top of that, you NEED a match making system."
Which means he's not saying it is just a matchmaking issue, as you seem to imply he has. It's a combination of factors wherein if you have a free weekend you will bolster your number of players, but you won't keep them without good matchmaking and microtransactions. That is my take on his point anyway...
As much as we can all have a hearty little chuckle at "nanites" with a nudge and a wink, we'll be nudging and winking at a giant gaping hole where a really colourful sci-fi universe is just waiting to be brought forth into existence.
I'm not saying scifi stories will bring in lots of new players, but its a big dollop of icing that nerds-that-might-like-ns2 love to baka otaku hentai the shit out of
As much as we can all have a hearty little chuckle at "nanites" with a nudge and a wink, we'll be nudging and winking at a giant gaping hole where a really colourful sci-fi universe is just waiting to be brought forth into existence.
I'm not saying scifi stories will bring in lots of new players, but its a big dollop of icing that nerds-that-might-like-ns2 love to baka otaku hentai the shit out of
The game does deserve its praise for staying active so long, no matter what anyone says NS2 is an good and successful game. Everyone that has worked on it in any way deserve a praise for a job well done. Even though my older comments tended to be very direct I always had that thought in mind.
Its a shame though NS2 only used about 25% of its true potential. There is still a big gap in the fps gaming industry and its not to late for NS2 to come in and build an strong playerbase. This would take commitment, changes and a lot of work. The focus would need to start on the ground floor before even thinking about e-sports. Starting with the new players entering the game.
The game needs to teach the player how to play while they are playing and then steer him in the right direction. For more casual player they would have to be shown how to access community driven servers with more casual atmosphere while more competitive type of players would be steered in the other direction. NS2 should do it from within itself so players would not have to find out that ensl exist, it should exist as a step forward inside the game. Same with communities such as Yo-clan.
Both ns1 and ns2 have both had the big weakness with steep learning curve for beginners where they just keep dieing again and again without feeling useful. This is even worse in ns2 than in ns1 because in newer players in ns1 felt save and very useful playing gorge. The lerk was much easier to learn in ns1 giving new players an advance lifeform they could play while learning the game without dieing to much. The punishment from losing lifeform in ns2 is also much greater as the resource flow is slower but I'm not going to dig deeper into that discussion here . In the end both games were really weak at introducing new players to the game and the best thing that was made to do that was combat. (Wow killed ns1, not combat as many believe, Combat helped the game a great deal).
For the amount of work needed it would be better to make NS3 and take the best from both ns1 and ns2 and make them a strong community driven game.
Even though I gave up hopes of NS2 reaching its top potential awhile ago a part of me is always hoping. I do hope that I will see Natural Selection reach greatness it deserves one day. Playing through both ns1 and ns2 have both been wonderful experiences and I will never forget the players that I have met through that journey.
Edit: I personally believe the lack of rule 34 content is the only thing holding NS2 back.
Shameless used to run a server with a different name daily in a rotation. Examples such as skulk on top on mondays and fade on fade action on thursdays.
As much as we can all have a hearty little chuckle at "nanites" with a nudge and a wink, we'll be nudging and winking at a giant gaping hole where a really colourful sci-fi universe is just waiting to be brought forth into existence.
I'm not saying scifi stories will bring in lots of new players, but its a big dollop of icing that nerds-that-might-like-ns2 love to baka otaku hentai the shit out of
People already want the game to match realism and made up lore. If official lore was made people would want the game to cling to the lore when ns3 could be as different as ns2 was to ns1 and the lore wouldn't fit.
For more casual player they would have to be shown how to access community driven servers with more casual atmosphere while more competitive type of players would be steered in the other direction. NS2 should do it from within itself so players would not have to find out that ensl exist, it should exist as a step forward inside the game.
NSL shortcut/ iframe/ whatever on the main menu 2 years ago would have been a wonderful thing.
I think that more frequent posts on NS2 mainpage wouldn't do any damage. Now when its 1-3 months between the posts, what does this indicate? I personally would think, hmm not much is happening here. The posts must not always be about updates and technical stuff. What about a "Beginners guide to Skulk movement" or "Commanding, the essentials"? Competitions are also a good idea where you for an example can win a free key to the game or maybe even a GORGE PLUSHIE!
Comments
@Zavaro it might be a better idea to keep the price the same for a few months and have a 50% off sale instead, then eventually lower the price
people will always buy a 50% off $10 instead of a 0% off $10
I'd love to set my server up this way. Having bot commanders would be cool too even though I think that would a bi-yatch to code the AI.
Here are my 2 cents why CS:Go is so successfull:
1. Valve did an amazing job with implementing clansupport and preparation for competitive play.
You can watch running matches ingame with one click.
The top clanplayers are like popstars.
Official ranked pub rounds only played in an 5v5 environment. So new players play in the same environment like the pros and learning the game that way.
If you want to play on large community servers, you have to live with no rank improvements.
If you leave a match on an official ranked server midgame, you get an penalty up to a week or more (try something like that in NS2, would be funny how people react. In CS:Go this is normal)
In NS2:
Top clanplayers "destroying" the game when they playing pub.
New players end on the 42 wooza clusteruck and learning how bad NS2 can be (balance and perfomance wise)
Rage quits are normal.
There is no ingame info about clanactivitys.
2. Perfomance
The 11 year old HL2 engine is running on an toaster with 30 fps. So its playable on every 9 year old 3,50€ Office Laptop.
Sad thing is: it looks exactly like that: A 11 year old game with some little shader effects.
But:
CS:Go wants to be a competitive game. Does a game like this need super fancy Graphic effects?
No.
All the competitive players are playing NS2 on minimum settings anyway.
In NS2:
Well you need an average PC to get playble FPS. But the problem with these FPS since ages is: They dont feel like FPS in other games.
70 fps in CS:Go are smooth in NS2 its a stutterfest.
3. Skins
There people out there who are willing to pay 3€ for an random weapon skin.
Why? i dont know . But it seems something like this attracts a special type of players.
"Uh look, i have the super rare AK47 wich "cost" 800€"
Valve did an amazing job here also to bind these type of players to the game.
NS2 had the potential to be an great e-sport game.
But everything you need to be that isnt in the game.
Now its too late.
Its the fault from everyone:
- UWE didnt put enough effort (or didnt had the time) to implement the things from above.
- Serveradmins hacking the server.exe to host servers wich the engine cant handle and breaking the balance
- Rookie farming is and was normal for an special type of players.
So, if NS2 is dead (wich is not the case), EVERYONE (Developer, Serveradmins, Player) was helping here to get to this point.
Thanks for pointing that out
And the magnet effect on older players of course.
Most player who goes on wooza won't help much while they could seed some servers.
Can't really do anything about it if people dislike it, making a map full of Cargo-esque rooms simply breaks the game, which in turn would cause even more uproar.
Besides, I've never really heard anyone complain about the maps having too little space in some areas.
I like the idea of weapon skins, but maybe something a little more than a redone texture. A new or modded weapon model? I've seen some pretty cool weapon models made by the community. Maybe use some of those if the creators are still around and something can get worked out?
Everyone hates bots. If it's 6 vs 5 and you add a bot to even the teams, you'll clear out the server. There is at least one person on the server like me who would leave immediately. And then you'd have to add more bots, and then more people would leave. It's a downward spiral.
Maybe he dealt with it later but...I thought Schu said this:
"On top of that, you NEED a match making system."
Which means he's not saying it is just a matchmaking issue, as you seem to imply he has. It's a combination of factors wherein if you have a free weekend you will bolster your number of players, but you won't keep them without good matchmaking and microtransactions. That is my take on his point anyway...
Like, 'official' lore.
As much as we can all have a hearty little chuckle at "nanites" with a nudge and a wink, we'll be nudging and winking at a giant gaping hole where a really colourful sci-fi universe is just waiting to be brought forth into existence.
I'm not saying scifi stories will bring in lots of new players, but its a big dollop of icing that nerds-that-might-like-ns2 love to baka otaku hentai the shit out of
Agreed, people need to want to do things like this https://youtube.com/watch?v=zPLmNwT5L88
Edit: I personally believe the lack of rule 34 content is the only thing holding NS2 back.
Its a shame though NS2 only used about 25% of its true potential. There is still a big gap in the fps gaming industry and its not to late for NS2 to come in and build an strong playerbase. This would take commitment, changes and a lot of work. The focus would need to start on the ground floor before even thinking about e-sports. Starting with the new players entering the game.
The game needs to teach the player how to play while they are playing and then steer him in the right direction. For more casual player they would have to be shown how to access community driven servers with more casual atmosphere while more competitive type of players would be steered in the other direction. NS2 should do it from within itself so players would not have to find out that ensl exist, it should exist as a step forward inside the game. Same with communities such as Yo-clan.
Both ns1 and ns2 have both had the big weakness with steep learning curve for beginners where they just keep dieing again and again without feeling useful. This is even worse in ns2 than in ns1 because in newer players in ns1 felt save and very useful playing gorge. The lerk was much easier to learn in ns1 giving new players an advance lifeform they could play while learning the game without dieing to much. The punishment from losing lifeform in ns2 is also much greater as the resource flow is slower but I'm not going to dig deeper into that discussion here
For the amount of work needed it would be better to make NS3 and take the best from both ns1 and ns2 and make them a strong community driven game.
Even though I gave up hopes of NS2 reaching its top potential awhile ago a part of me is always hoping. I do hope that I will see Natural Selection reach greatness it deserves one day. Playing through both ns1 and ns2 have both been wonderful experiences and I will never forget the players that I have met through that journey.
-Grissi
People already want the game to match realism and made up lore. If official lore was made people would want the game to cling to the lore when ns3 could be as different as ns2 was to ns1 and the lore wouldn't fit.