Grenade launchers aren't a homing shotgun. it is and always will be an anti-structure thing. and occasionally hitting a skulk in the fact. (if you can does this, you deserve the kill)
this is just not true. lerk hunting with a GL is surprisingly easy, and it's generally not that hard to hit a fade either.
yeah, it's pretty much only a problem in ~10v10 and up. Good luck finding/getting in to a server that isn't 20+ players though.
If you want to talk about 2 GL's hitting you, then that's 2 players, unfortunate, but you cannot make 1 v 2 = fair. But then you might as well have 8 players with GL and 8 gorges rushing a base. Increasing the number to prove a point is fruitless.
But that is the point. 8 Gorges Biling can melt a marine base in no time, but bile doesn't kill people, only structures. That is Bile's purpose, massive damage to structures and armor.
GLs on the other hand do massive damage to literally everything. And that is a problem. An 8-man GL rush melting a hive is a good thing (mechanicswise), but an 8-man GL push destroying literally everything in its path is not. The GL is supposed to be a support weapon, like the Flamer. Does good damage to structures but you need a pal with a shotgun to cover your back.
While it's a good idea to have a pal with a shotty, a pal with a GL will work just as well now, and that's not a good thing IMO.
I'd be interested to see what happened if Grenades didn't bounce at all. Simply exploding on first contact or after a time (whichever happens first). In addition to a reduced damage to players. It might also be worth experimenting with a longer fire rate (more time between shots) so that you can't coat a doorway in solid explosions for a time.
Sigh.. There's simply no way to please people in this community.
One thread will complain about the game being too difficult for rookies. The other will complain about a mechanic that helps rookies get frags.
This sort of thing is in every popular game and HAS to for it to survive. In starcraft, it's called 6p or 4g. In counter-strike, it's called awp (ok not a perfect example ill admit). In call of duty it's the noobtube. In NS2, it's GL's and Onos. And that's how it should be.
Get to a particular level of skill and the GL is simply not a thread anymore - but it helps the rookies, so it's perfectly well balanced as far as I'm concerned. And just to be clear - as a skilled player the GL is not necessarily ineffective. But it will never be as effective as a shotgun - and that's really the reason why the GL is so well balanced imo.
Like in the other games and mechanics I listed. You just have to suck-it-up, learn how to deal with it, and move on with the knowledge that even though it causes you frustration, it's a better game for it.
I really don't understand this gl-onos comparison...
They are both things that are simple to use for a new player with little training while still being quite effective. That is a good thing to have in a game since it eases players into it.
I don't think the onos is easy for new players to use. The fraction of new players I've seen who go onos and who don't die in their first or second engagement is absolutely tiny.
The ability to stand 'safely' at the back/middle of a pack of marines and launch grenades around a corner towards targets you can't see doesn't in any way correlate with what is required of onos play (even on pubs).
I don't think the onos is easy for new players to use. The fraction of new players I've seen who go onos and who don't die in their first or second engagement is absolutely tiny.
The ability to stand 'safely' at the back/middle of a pack of marines and launch grenades around a corner towards targets you can't see doesn't in any way correlate with what is required of onos play (even on pubs).
It very much depends on what you mean by "easy to use". It depends on the goal you set for your onos. Most new players goal is simply, a K/D => 1. That goal is exceedingly easier with an onos than with anything else. Maybe they won't reach it, but they'll very likely get close - and as such the new casual player will generally feel more enjoyment from playing the onos, because the reward is generally easier to get. If your goal is to play "well" with your onos, in a more deep strategical and tactical sense - then yea, a new player is not going to be very successful, I don't think anyone could expect that...
This is not about balance. This is about the enjoyment of new players. No one is saying that the Onos is supposed to be as easy as the grenade launcher. This game is assymetrical after all. The GL should be a little bit random to allow for some easy frags - As long as it doesn't actually exceed the effectiveness of a skilled lmg'er or sg'er. The same with onos - it's pretty easy to get frags, but a skilled onos will never be as effective as a skilled lerk. They are rookie tools and if you truly want player retention to rise or stabilize, then you don't nerf the rookie tools in a game that is notoriously unforgiving for rookies.
In fact, you should all try to research GL's more in low level pubs and instruct rookies to go onos. It's the best way right now to ensure their enjoyment of the game and reach that KD=>1 goal.
I understand the frustrations. It's also frustrating to put 1500 dmg in an onos and still die. Or run out of a corner and get one-shot by an awp. Or get 6 pooled or 4 gated in Starcraft. Or smartgunned in TitanFall. But without these mechanics and strategies, the game will simply die.
And it's not like these things are difficult to counter if you actually put the work in lets face it.
Some made the argument that the lerk is easy to frag with the GL'er. Only if you play it very recklessly - but, it's fucking 25 pres.. by the time they have GL's, go ahead and buy a new lerk.
The same with onos - it's pretty easy to get frags, but a skilled onos will never be as effective as a skilled lerk.
Lerk: The new turtle-breaker endgame lifeform.
Yeah, it's true that an early lerk probably has more impact on the game that a late Onos - but I don't think you can compare those two like that, they are just too different
@Santaclaws but that's blatantly not what happens to new players going onos.
They wait all game, saving up, racking up tens of deaths as skulk, with maybe a kill or two to show for it.
Finally, they are ready! Evolve onos... oooh here we go, massive space cow OH YEAH.
Run into 5 marines.
Maybe kill 1.
Die.
&*&%*%^%^%^%&*';#*!
That has to be one of the most frustrating things in any game ever, and it happens ALL the time.
It's different in combat, of course, because they will get their onos back, but in vanilla, that's it for at least the next 20 minutes, better luck next time.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
In my experience, I've had way more rookie Onos kill me by sheer amount of hp and damage than rookie grenade launchers spamming around corners.
To be honest, I've had more frustrations (as a marine) watching rookie GL sitting at a armory, spamming and back paddling, accomplishing nothing or pushing a hive.
Some made the argument that the lerk is easy to frag with the GL'er. Only if you play it very recklessly - but, it's fucking 25 pres.. by the time they have GL's, go ahead and buy a new lerk.
In my case, it is grenades and mines (moreso mines) that kill my lerk. You say a shotgun is more beneficial in a pros hands and it is, but I can easier avoid that. I have had good players wait for me to enter a room just to snipe me with the GL. It doesn't happen often though.
I have no idea why the onos is even mentioned, in some ways, onos are the hardest lifeform to play even after the movement change. GLs can be affected by skill as I've seen in the hands of some good players but they aren't even comparable in what is required mentally. Onos aren't really a mechanically demanding lifeform like a fade but they are difficult to play vs good players who can trap and flank you. This is even accounting for the fact that an onos is designed in such a way to defeat a single person without a JP in every conceivable way other than hiding, GL is not.
If you're dying to an onos then its your fault, your teams fault or you're sacrificing yourself for your team (the big stomping sound is a giveaway) yet a GL, sometimes you can't predict them and sometimes you will get gibbed at random. How many times have we as a skulk managed to get up to a GL maybe get 3 bites in and died to a nade instantly that he shot randomly out of panic? Enough to annoy some people I have no doubt and maybe the shotgun can do that sometimes in the hands of a bad player but the shotgun is designed perfectly for that situation, the GL is not.
The GL...just feels out of place. Every weapon/tech has its designated role and abilities but the GL is good against nearly everything when in higher numbers yet is not meant to be the bread and butter like the shotgun or rifle is. It's just strange.
I will say that this thread has sparked some surprising viewpoints and some extreme dissonance. I might be wrong but some people do share the same opinion and I just hate what the GL has become as I hate xenocide but at least I know why xenocide is there and the limitations it has, the GL is an enigma. Lowering player damage by about 25%, increasing AoE player damage and increasing travel speed of the nades would be my choice though.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2014
Would it be better if Grenade Launcher deals Heavy damage, but at a much lower amount (<100)? That should help reinforce its role as a support weapon.
A fully Carapace upgraded Skulk would survive a direct hit, but Fades and Onos would lose their armor much quicker to grenades, and risk dying to conventional weapons such as Rifle and Shotgun.
Umbra should be changed to protect aliens from long range grenade artillery, while Flamethrower can burn Umbra to help Marines siege, but at risk to the FT user due to its short range.
I really don't understand this gl-onos comparison...
They are both things that are simple to use for a new player with little training while still being quite effective. That is a good thing to have in a game since it eases players into it.
Onos are tougher to play as than you might think. Sure, they're a big, tough battering-ram, but they're a huge target, impossible to miss, and they'll go down easily if they don't retreat in time. I've solo killed at least 2 rookie Onos because they couldn't hit me (ADDDAAADADDADADADADADDDDADADA, etc.) and just couldn't bring themselves to retreat without getting the kill. Sometimes you'll retreat with at least half your health still there, and end up only just barely making it home. Onos is not a no-skill class.
I have no idea why the onos is even mentioned, in some ways, onos are the hardest lifeform to play even after the movement change. GLs can be affected by skill as I've seen in the hands of some good players but they aren't even comparable in what is required mentally. Onos aren't really a mechanically demanding lifeform like a fade but they are difficult to play vs good players who can trap and flank you. This is even accounting for the fact that an onos is designed in such a way to defeat a single person without a JP in every conceivable way other than hiding, GL is not.
Yea it's pretty clear that you don't understand the context of these comments. It is purely a comparison for new and casual players. Bringing in good players is irrelevant, but sure I'll be the first to agree with what you wrote here.. But still, this comment doesn't really apply to the discussion at hand. It's pointless to discuss GL's in the hands of strong players, because strong players don't use GL's in the first place. They can accomplish a lot more with a lmg.
If you're dying to an onos then its your fault, your teams fault or you're sacrificing yourself for your team (the big stomping sound is a giveaway) yet a GL, sometimes you can't predict them and sometimes you will get gibbed at random. How many times have we as a skulk managed to get up to a GL maybe get 3 bites in and died to a nade instantly that he shot randomly out of panic? Enough to annoy some people I have no doubt and maybe the shotgun can do that sometimes in the hands of a bad player but the shotgun is designed perfectly for that situation, the GL is not.
Again, nobody is disputing this. What is being discussed is wether or not this is bad design. The fact that it causes people frustration is a necessary price. But I won't bother explaining why, because if you cared at all you'd have read the earlier comments.
The GL...just feels out of place. Every weapon/tech has its designated role and abilities but the GL is good against nearly everything when in higher numbers yet is not meant to be the bread and butter like the shotgun or rifle is. It's just strange.
The role for the GL is very well defined, again already explained multiple times in the thread by myself and others... Just because it has no use in competetive play (I'm a former competetive player btw I've used the GL maybe twice in 3k hours) does not mean that the tech doesn't have a role. It has a role in low level play, because that's how it is designed - on purpose (I'm guessing, if it's by accident, w/e still good design imo).
I have no idea why the onos is even mentioned, in some ways, onos are the hardest lifeform to play even after the movement change. GLs can be affected by skill as I've seen in the hands of some good players but they aren't even comparable in what is required mentally. Onos aren't really a mechanically demanding lifeform like a fade but they are difficult to play vs good players who can trap and flank you. This is even accounting for the fact that an onos is designed in such a way to defeat a single person without a JP in every conceivable way other than hiding, GL is not.
Yea it's pretty clear that you don't understand the context of these comments. It is purely a comparison for new and casual players. Bringing in good players is irrelevant, but sure I'll be the first to agree with what you wrote here.. But still, this comment doesn't really apply to the discussion at hand. It's pointless to discuss GL's in the hands of strong players, because strong players don't use GL's in the first place. They can accomplish a lot more with a lmg.
If you're dying to an onos then its your fault, your teams fault or you're sacrificing yourself for your team (the big stomping sound is a giveaway) yet a GL, sometimes you can't predict them and sometimes you will get gibbed at random. How many times have we as a skulk managed to get up to a GL maybe get 3 bites in and died to a nade instantly that he shot randomly out of panic? Enough to annoy some people I have no doubt and maybe the shotgun can do that sometimes in the hands of a bad player but the shotgun is designed perfectly for that situation, the GL is not.
Again, nobody is disputing this. What is being discussed is wether or not this is bad design. The fact that it causes people frustration is a necessary price. But I won't bother explaining why, because if you cared at all you'd have read the earlier comments.
The GL...just feels out of place. Every weapon/tech has its designated role and abilities but the GL is good against nearly everything when in higher numbers yet is not meant to be the bread and butter like the shotgun or rifle is. It's just strange.
The role for the GL is very well defined, again already explained multiple times in the thread by myself and others... Just because it has no use in competetive play (I'm a former competetive player btw I've used the GL maybe twice in 3k hours) does not mean that the tech doesn't have a role. It has a role in low level play, because that's how it is designed - on purpose (I'm guessing, if it's by accident, w/e still good design imo).
Angry post and impressive hours. I'm not entirely sure you've read the thread. Or, at least, the last two pages.
Would it be better if Grenade Launcher deals Heavy damage, but at a much lower amount (<100)? That should help reinforce its role as a support weapon.
A fully Carapace upgraded Skulk would survive a direct hit, but Fades and Onos would lose their armor much quicker to grenades, and risk dying to conventional weapons such as Rifle and Shotgun.
Umbra should be changed to protect aliens from long range grenade artillery, while Flamethrower can burn Umbra to help Marines siege, but at risk to the FT user due to its short range.
Quoting this because it's the only productive post that offers a viable solution to the 'problem' (not gonna say it is, not gonna say it's not) all thread. (apologies if you also offered a productive post, I missed it in amongst all the bitching and autofellatio).
Can we discuss things like this more and less discussion about things like how much everyone else is wrong please.
When i'm hitting hives with GL i always hit the lower end of the hive, because that creates a bigger chance of killing eggs and newly spawned aliens. Which then as a result means enemies can't really spawn to retaliate...
Would it be better if Grenade Launcher deals Heavy damage, but at a much lower amount (<100)? That should help reinforce its role as a support weapon.
A fully Carapace upgraded Skulk would survive a direct hit, but Fades and Onos would lose their armor much quicker to grenades, and risk dying to conventional weapons such as Rifle and Shotgun.
Umbra should be changed to protect aliens from long range grenade artillery, while Flamethrower can burn Umbra to help Marines siege, but at risk to the FT user due to its short range.
Quoting this because it's the only productive post that offers a viable solution to the 'problem' (not gonna say it is, not gonna say it's not) all thread. (apologies if you also offered a productive post, I missed it in amongst all the bitching and autofellatio).
Can we discuss things like this more and less discussion about things like how much everyone else is wrong please.
Well its an interesting idea but its hard to tell what after-effects it could have if any. The only consistent change I find that most people tend to agree on is lowering player damage.
Making the GL Deal Heavy damage would be a terrible idea.
iirc, Heavy damage has a 1:1 ratio vs armor, with would make the GL BETTER at killing players.
Structural damage is the type we are looking for, as it deals a percentage less damage to anything not labelled "structure"
making the ratio of damage reduction towards players even larger would be the best way to keep the GL useful, but make it harder to kill players with.
I meant around 90-100 StructuralHeavy damage (1:1 ratio to armor, 200% damage to structures). Against an armored player, 100 Heavy damage would be similar to the current (terrible-terrible) 165 damage that each grenade deals. Against someone without armor however, "Heavy" Grenade would only deal 100 damage.
so long as a lerk can survive a near miss, I'd be good.
Was more concerned that the heavy damage with the current numbers would be too strong.
Im hesitant to suggest reducing AoE radius due to how effective that is against clustered buildings (which is supposed to be the purpose of the GL....right?)
It has a role in low level play, because that's how it is designed - on purpose (I'm guessing, if it's by accident, w/e still good design imo).
Good design?.. No.. no it is not.
It's a bandaid / foo mechanic at best, and just a plain noob trap at worst.
This isn't to say the weapon is useless, it's just that the way you regard it as being a savior comes off as somewhat of a false idol.
I know you are just repeating a penny arcade video (a show which i love but isn't without error) that has some good points.. but really consider this:
If a game has a properly designed skill curve, do you still need "foo" mechanics like a noobtube?
Answer: You don't.
The only justification for their existence in the first place is to make up for a poor design somewhere - it's a bandaid and demonstrates lack of forethought.
Meanwhile, they become the bane of existence for the rest of the playerbase and just highlight the uninitiated more than they would have been, creating a gap.
Comments
this is just not true. lerk hunting with a GL is surprisingly easy, and it's generally not that hard to hit a fade either.
yeah, it's pretty much only a problem in ~10v10 and up. Good luck finding/getting in to a server that isn't 20+ players though.
GLs on the other hand do massive damage to literally everything. And that is a problem. An 8-man GL rush melting a hive is a good thing (mechanicswise), but an 8-man GL push destroying literally everything in its path is not. The GL is supposed to be a support weapon, like the Flamer. Does good damage to structures but you need a pal with a shotgun to cover your back.
While it's a good idea to have a pal with a shotty, a pal with a GL will work just as well now, and that's not a good thing IMO.
I'd be interested to see what happened if Grenades didn't bounce at all. Simply exploding on first contact or after a time (whichever happens first). In addition to a reduced damage to players. It might also be worth experimenting with a longer fire rate (more time between shots) so that you can't coat a doorway in solid explosions for a time.
One thread will complain about the game being too difficult for rookies. The other will complain about a mechanic that helps rookies get frags.
This sort of thing is in every popular game and HAS to for it to survive. In starcraft, it's called 6p or 4g. In counter-strike, it's called awp (ok not a perfect example ill admit). In call of duty it's the noobtube. In NS2, it's GL's and Onos. And that's how it should be.
Get to a particular level of skill and the GL is simply not a thread anymore - but it helps the rookies, so it's perfectly well balanced as far as I'm concerned. And just to be clear - as a skilled player the GL is not necessarily ineffective. But it will never be as effective as a shotgun - and that's really the reason why the GL is so well balanced imo.
Like in the other games and mechanics I listed. You just have to suck-it-up, learn how to deal with it, and move on with the knowledge that even though it causes you frustration, it's a better game for it.
They are both things that are simple to use for a new player with little training while still being quite effective. That is a good thing to have in a game since it eases players into it.
The ability to stand 'safely' at the back/middle of a pack of marines and launch grenades around a corner towards targets you can't see doesn't in any way correlate with what is required of onos play (even on pubs).
It very much depends on what you mean by "easy to use". It depends on the goal you set for your onos. Most new players goal is simply, a K/D => 1. That goal is exceedingly easier with an onos than with anything else. Maybe they won't reach it, but they'll very likely get close - and as such the new casual player will generally feel more enjoyment from playing the onos, because the reward is generally easier to get. If your goal is to play "well" with your onos, in a more deep strategical and tactical sense - then yea, a new player is not going to be very successful, I don't think anyone could expect that...
This is not about balance. This is about the enjoyment of new players. No one is saying that the Onos is supposed to be as easy as the grenade launcher. This game is assymetrical after all. The GL should be a little bit random to allow for some easy frags - As long as it doesn't actually exceed the effectiveness of a skilled lmg'er or sg'er. The same with onos - it's pretty easy to get frags, but a skilled onos will never be as effective as a skilled lerk. They are rookie tools and if you truly want player retention to rise or stabilize, then you don't nerf the rookie tools in a game that is notoriously unforgiving for rookies.
In fact, you should all try to research GL's more in low level pubs and instruct rookies to go onos. It's the best way right now to ensure their enjoyment of the game and reach that KD=>1 goal.
I understand the frustrations. It's also frustrating to put 1500 dmg in an onos and still die. Or run out of a corner and get one-shot by an awp. Or get 6 pooled or 4 gated in Starcraft. Or smartgunned in TitanFall. But without these mechanics and strategies, the game will simply die.
And it's not like these things are difficult to counter if you actually put the work in lets face it.
Some made the argument that the lerk is easy to frag with the GL'er. Only if you play it very recklessly - but, it's fucking 25 pres.. by the time they have GL's, go ahead and buy a new lerk.
Lerk: The new turtle-breaker endgame lifeform.
Yeah, it's true that an early lerk probably has more impact on the game that a late Onos - but I don't think you can compare those two like that, they are just too different
They wait all game, saving up, racking up tens of deaths as skulk, with maybe a kill or two to show for it.
Finally, they are ready! Evolve onos... oooh here we go, massive space cow OH YEAH.
Run into 5 marines.
Maybe kill 1.
Die.
&*&%*%^%^%^%&*';#*!
That has to be one of the most frustrating things in any game ever, and it happens ALL the time.
It's different in combat, of course, because they will get their onos back, but in vanilla, that's it for at least the next 20 minutes, better luck next time.
To be honest, I've had more frustrations (as a marine) watching rookie GL sitting at a armory, spamming and back paddling, accomplishing nothing or pushing a hive.
Perhaps I'm playing on the wrong servers
If you're dying to an onos then its your fault, your teams fault or you're sacrificing yourself for your team (the big stomping sound is a giveaway) yet a GL, sometimes you can't predict them and sometimes you will get gibbed at random. How many times have we as a skulk managed to get up to a GL maybe get 3 bites in and died to a nade instantly that he shot randomly out of panic? Enough to annoy some people I have no doubt and maybe the shotgun can do that sometimes in the hands of a bad player but the shotgun is designed perfectly for that situation, the GL is not.
The GL...just feels out of place. Every weapon/tech has its designated role and abilities but the GL is good against nearly everything when in higher numbers yet is not meant to be the bread and butter like the shotgun or rifle is. It's just strange.
I will say that this thread has sparked some surprising viewpoints and some extreme dissonance. I might be wrong but some people do share the same opinion and I just hate what the GL has become as I hate xenocide but at least I know why xenocide is there and the limitations it has, the GL is an enigma. Lowering player damage by about 25%, increasing AoE player damage and increasing travel speed of the nades would be my choice though.
A fully Carapace upgraded Skulk would survive a direct hit, but Fades and Onos would lose their armor much quicker to grenades, and risk dying to conventional weapons such as Rifle and Shotgun.
Umbra should be changed to protect aliens from long range grenade artillery, while Flamethrower can burn Umbra to help Marines siege, but at risk to the FT user due to its short range.
Onos are tougher to play as than you might think. Sure, they're a big, tough battering-ram, but they're a huge target, impossible to miss, and they'll go down easily if they don't retreat in time. I've solo killed at least 2 rookie Onos because they couldn't hit me (ADDDAAADADDADADADADADDDDADADA, etc.) and just couldn't bring themselves to retreat without getting the kill. Sometimes you'll retreat with at least half your health still there, and end up only just barely making it home. Onos is not a no-skill class.
Again, nobody is disputing this. What is being discussed is wether or not this is bad design. The fact that it causes people frustration is a necessary price. But I won't bother explaining why, because if you cared at all you'd have read the earlier comments.
The role for the GL is very well defined, again already explained multiple times in the thread by myself and others... Just because it has no use in competetive play (I'm a former competetive player btw I've used the GL maybe twice in 3k hours) does not mean that the tech doesn't have a role. It has a role in low level play, because that's how it is designed - on purpose (I'm guessing, if it's by accident, w/e still good design imo).
Angry post and impressive hours. I'm not entirely sure you've read the thread. Or, at least, the last two pages.
Quoting this because it's the only productive post that offers a viable solution to the 'problem' (not gonna say it is, not gonna say it's not) all thread. (apologies if you also offered a productive post, I missed it in amongst all the bitching and autofellatio).
Can we discuss things like this more and less discussion about things like how much everyone else is wrong please.
Well its an interesting idea but its hard to tell what after-effects it could have if any. The only consistent change I find that most people tend to agree on is lowering player damage.
iirc, Heavy damage has a 1:1 ratio vs armor, with would make the GL BETTER at killing players.
Structural damage is the type we are looking for, as it deals a percentage less damage to anything not labelled "structure"
making the ratio of damage reduction towards players even larger would be the best way to keep the GL useful, but make it harder to kill players with.
Also maybe have the nades themselves have a small light or something.
I think it's a bad idea since then it will be almost impossible to kill lifeforms with it (on purpose).
I think that's the point.
then what's the point of GL? Flame and arcs are anti structure. Shotgun and GL are area anti-personnel weapons.
I meant around 90-100 StructuralHeavy damage (1:1 ratio to armor, 200% damage to structures). Against an armored player, 100 Heavy damage would be similar to the current (terrible-terrible) 165 damage that each grenade deals. Against someone without armor however, "Heavy" Grenade would only deal 100 damage.
Was more concerned that the heavy damage with the current numbers would be too strong.
Im hesitant to suggest reducing AoE radius due to how effective that is against clustered buildings (which is supposed to be the purpose of the GL....right?)
It's a bandaid / foo mechanic at best, and just a plain noob trap at worst.
This isn't to say the weapon is useless, it's just that the way you regard it as being a savior comes off as somewhat of a false idol.
I know you are just repeating a penny arcade video (a show which i love but isn't without error) that has some good points.. but really consider this:
If a game has a properly designed skill curve, do you still need "foo" mechanics like a noobtube?
Answer: You don't.
The only justification for their existence in the first place is to make up for a poor design somewhere - it's a bandaid and demonstrates lack of forethought.
Meanwhile, they become the bane of existence for the rest of the playerbase and just highlight the uninitiated more than they would have been, creating a gap.