It's been pretty tough to judge if the hit reg is worse or better with how many different server setups there are atm.
I'm seeing the same BS across all servers regardless of their config. It also has nothing to do with getting used to anything. If i parasite and make 3 bites in a very early game, there is no bloody way that marine is walking away (and i'm sure there were no medpacks). Instead i was continuously dying for not getting the kill i should get.
Turn on the hitsound feedback (options/sounds). Gives you accurate feedback (the visuals are much harder to follow).
In general, hitreg for games like NS2 where you have targets moving as erratic and fast as in NS2 makes it very difficult to be certain that hitreg is correct - you would need full-game 100% accurate recordings for that, and a client with rewind/slow-mo capacity.
What I _can_ say is that there is a lot of people that have no problems killing me, either as marine or alien.
So hitreg can't be completly screwed up.
I don't think anyone is blaming the game itself, I think it's more related with poor performing servers. The game is just too demanding for them. It's still funny seeing all the ns2 guardians come out and try and pretend nothing is wrong. I also find it hilarious you put these performance warning popup messages on 24+ count servers when half of the 24 slot servers bomb in performance mid-late game. A large majority of the filled servers do it. The way you word those popups, you give the imperssion to new players that you won't have issues elsewhere, and of course when things go laggy and bad on non-labeled servers, who do you think will get the blame? NS2.
Almost all the servers tank under heavy load and fighting. Even the official servers I've seen the tickrate drop to low teens. When it happens, you can throw hit detection out the window.
Almost all the servers tank under heavy load and fighting. Even the official servers I've seen the tickrate drop to low teens. When it happens, you can throw hit detection out the window.
Well, thats not true.
I know atleast one server wich didnt have any performanceproblems and this server has the same name like my signature
There are some other servers wich also have no problems with endgame.
What region are you located in @ns2isgood? I am in NA westcoast and only 1-2 servers usually has performance problems. I see pings are high, so did you just pull the 9 lowest performing servers from around the world?
If you have a network issue you can't play the game.
you can play single player or training...no, acutally, i just tried. @Narfwak
i can not even play vs bots if the internet is down (and thus can not play with this game on any level).
this is a much greater QA & Usability FAIL than i originally thought.
@Flayra it may be time to make NS2 free-to-play....then maybe you'll get a larger userbase and more community devs.
nobody should be expected to pay for a game that they can not play.
If you have a network issue you can't play the game.
you can play single player or training...no, acutally, i just tried.
i can not even play vs bots if the internet is down (and thus can not play with this game on any level).
this is a much greater QA & Usability FAIL than i originally thought.
@Flayra it may be time to make NS2 free-to-play....then maybe you'll get a larger userbase and more community devs.
nobody should be expected to pay for a game that they can not play.
It is not technically possible at this moment to provide model previews in the main menu, which is why it's only available ingame.
there are already 2 model previews in the main menu using the game engine.
Those are cinematics, not even close to what's being done in-game. Otherwise it would have already been done. We need to make changes in the engine to accomodate for that, so in the meantime it's only in-game. You already got that answer before, but I'll reiterate, hopefully we don't need to repeat it a third time.
Read this to understand that thoughts about it (including Cinematics) have been made already: https://trello.com/c/I00vW1Pv/297-customization-menu-on-main-menu
The costumization menu has just been added recently, before it was boring suboptions in the settings menu. True, usability of the menu is not up to the scratch, but CDT is working on it and the game has more important zones to tend to. Luxus problem you mention here.
i too ran into the hit reg issue on skulks. kkg captain server #1, update/tick are 30 and it was only two minutes into the game so I highly doubt either of those were fluctuating.
edit: it was significant amount as well, he was at a medium range side strafing on the ground (i didn't miss) and all I was getting for seemingly half my clip was blood splatter and nothing more. i only noticed a couple times. edit2: 18 people in the server at the time.
i always only play on 100% performance servers due to filter settings. completely forgot there are lower ones out there...
as for the sp-argument to make the game f2p: that's the most ridicolous thing i read in months, seriously hoping you want to troll/provoke. it's like saying i cannot play soccer with myself so now every soccer ball/equipment/club/whatever in the entire world should be completely free for everyone to make up for that. wut?
i always only play on 100% performance servers due to filter settings. completely forgot there are lower ones out there...
as for the sp-argument to make the game f2p: that's the most ridicolous thing i read in months, seriously hoping you want to troll/provoke. it's like saying i cannot play soccer with myself so now every soccer ball/equipment/club/whatever in the entire world should be completely free for everyone to make up for that. wut?
Just because you see 100% of the server browser doesn't mean you'll get that over the course of an entire match. Profiling for server performance isn't as useful as it should be at the moment and still makes it a guessing game when it comes to weeding out the bad servers at times, hence those screenshots. If the servers showed 50% performance when it's empty, do you think people would still join (with the exception of the larger player count)? These servers need to be weeded out and abandoned by the community.
What region are you located in @ns2isgood? I am in NA westcoast and only 1-2 servers usually has performance problems. I see pings are high, so did you just pull the 9 lowest performing servers from around the world?
My region is completely irrelevant to a servers hardware performance. And you see a lot of 100% because the performance label is deceiving. I've joined a couple servers that showed 100% performance only to check why I'm lagging and rubber banding so bad late game and see the server at 40% performance on the server browser. And lets not act like there is a plethora of server selection either, sometimes you're forced to play on these bad servers due to the community being so small.
I'm still getting barely 30-40FPS on mid-high, and some odd lag spikes every minute or so. Shrug.
Edit:
Getting more so 50FPS now, must of just been that one time.
i too ran into the hit reg issue on skulks. kkg captain server #1, update/tick are 30 and it was only two minutes into the game so I highly doubt either of those were fluctuating.
edit: it was significant amount as well, he was at a medium range side strafing on the ground (i didn't miss) and all I was getting for seemingly half my clip was blood splatter and nothing more. i only noticed a couple times. edit2: 18 people in the server at the time.
Of course everyone will say that:
a) your aim sucked
b) you were just imagining things
c) your system sucks
d) it's servers fault
The fact that this NEVER happened before 267 on ANY server tells a lot. After 500 hours of gameplay i'd spot at least one case for sure. There were non kills before, but never liek this and never so consistently the same...
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited August 2014
Or just
e) Get us the data / reproduction steps by providing us with a video.
We haven't seen a thing of it in weeks of testing, and cannot reproduce it, (and others cannot outside of mods) so unfortunately we need more info from users.
Thanks!
Well, I can't say if there's something actually *wrong*... but I've noticed situations like @RejZoR describes, and never had those before 267.
It's most notable at the start of the game, because you know Marines are at A0. *Parasite* *chomp* *chomp* .... (huh?) ... *chomp* ... (still not dead?!) ... *chomp* ... Marine finally dies. I'm pretty sure I hit with the bites, and I did not notice any Medpack drops.
To be clear: I don't think there's something wrong with the damage mechanics. Maybe Medpack drops are easier to overlook since 267? Different sound priorities or something? I once noticed Medpacks on the floor after such a situation, but didn't see/hear a single pickup during the fight. That doesn't say anything about the weird effect, but it shows the commander was paying attention and actually trying to med the Marine.
I don't know what mods where running at that time, because I shrugged it off and carried on. But I'll try to capture a video if this happens again.
(For reference, performance is much better for me in 267. Slightly better fps, and everything's much smoother.)
Play some games, talk to some people in various servers. Quite a few people, myself included, have had pretty bad performance issues since 267. I can't play fade anymore! the fps by even 7-8 mins in is terrible. Definitely seems to drop the second you approach a marine/ he starts firing. Of course, my FPS counter shows 70+ but its more like 15.
If it counts for anything, the game does feel 'smoother' but only really in the sense that when the game hitches, it's over a longer period of time and to a lower fps... So definitely smoother, however it results, for me, in an overall lower average fps. As i said, its fine just walking around but as soon as marines start shooting it's AWFUL.
Aaaand also I am getting skulk bites not hitting - no sound or feedback, no numbers, but definitely a bite. Like, I've been jumping against a stationary player with him dead in the center of my screen and "missed" a bite. I want to blame the FPS issues for throwing off my register of whether my crosshair was on a guys balls when I clicked, but this was kind of undeniably not due to that.
I'll film some games from OBS and see if I can get any evidence
Or just
e) Get us the data / reproduction steps by providing us with a video.
Every now and then I had hits that didn't register on the server. I started recording all my games with Shadowplay in 1080p @ 60fps. When I played back those situations in slow motion it turns out that I actually didn't hit. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you haven't had problems with hit registration. Just that I thought I had problems but when I looked closer into it it turns out hitreg was just fine.
My issue is when blood spurts up and you get the sound cues from a hit - but you get no hitsound or draw damage. If that means my hit didn't connect, so be it, but please do something about the animations then.. It's very confusing and I don't know if I have to correct my aim or not in these situations.
This happens on NSL gather servers and HBZ for me - I don't play other servers.
I'm pretty sure this is mod specific. I'm sure you won't have missed it during playtesting, as when it happens it's really obvious. Now the tricky thing is working out which mod it is and getting to the bottom of the problem!
Ordinarily, I might have joined the ranks with 'l2p' here, but I'd have been wrong if I did. It might not be on totally vanilla servers, but short of destroying newbies on UWE officials, good luck finding a vanilla server on which to play.
I have seen skulks who I know are going to land those bites find themselves missing them and complaining also about the collision boxes. There is a very real issue somewhere out there, but it's not clear to me at least which mod or mods are causing it.
My issue is when blood spurts up and you get the sound cues from a hit - but you get no hitsound or draw damage. If that means my hit didn't connect, so be it, but please do something about the animations then.. It's very confusing and I don't know if I have to correct my aim or not in these situations.
This happens on NSL gather servers and HBZ for me - I don't play other servers.
The problem is the 'Hit Effects' like blood etc, are client-side effects, the client plays them on what it believes to be a hit. However, if the server decides that it wasn't a hit. then it wasn't a hit, regardless of what the client thought.
This is why you see 'hits' registering, but on the server, they are misses, and thus you don't get the server notifications of damage (hitsounds & draw damage). Ignore the blood splatter effects, and notice draw damage and hitsounds. If you get draw damage and hit sounds, server says you hit, and the server is what counts.
Same crap as Source engine then. What's the point of that if it essentially means nothing at all, it's just some fancy meaningless graphic... i need a visual confirmation, otherwise we can make entire game pretty much random and shell out hit damage randomly on scale from 0 to 300.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The problem with making the client effects trigger when the server confirms a hit is delay etc. The server would have to make the call, then notify the client to start playing the animation, this would then mean a delay to the effects playing.
Prediction irons this out and will generally get the target correctly. The problem comes in with high moving objects, such as skulks, etc, who can move very quickly and be in a different place to where they were expected to be due to player control. This gives prediction a headache, but it is still much more reliable than not.
Trust me, you would much rather have the predicted system currently used, than having to wait for server confirmation of every command before the world updated..... It would be like a stuttering video playback.... with players being adjusted into new positions all the time.
I'm well aware of that. But in current state it's just drastically worse than it was in pre-267 builds. If more people have all of the sudden noticed this, then i'm not making things up just for the sake of bashing NS2 and its devs, but because i've observed a consistently repeating anomaly that wasn't happening before.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Who says it wasn't happening before?
With the smoother frames, any problems like this that may have been hidden away will begin to show themselves.
I highly doubt this is because of 267, however, I firmly believe that latent issues that have been in the engine and game for a while will become more noticable and prevalent the more the game gets fixed up.
I'm pretty sure this is mod specific. I'm sure you won't have missed it during playtesting, as when it happens it's really obvious. Now the tricky thing is working out which mod it is and getting to the bottom of the problem!
I am getting issues on the vanilla YOclan server, I disabled my client-side mods and it still didnt seem to make a difference
With the smoother frames, any problems like this that may have been hidden away will begin to show themselves.
I highly doubt this is because of 267, however, I firmly believe that latent issues that have been in the engine and game for a while will become more noticable and prevalent the more the game gets fixed up.
I don't really see it any smoother (it still starts at 150fps and goes to bottom like it used to and feels pretty much the same while doing that), so that hasn't changed much and thus hasn't skewed the "results". And it started the moment i've updated the game to 267. I was playing 266 the same day in the morning and it was fine. And the day before and the day before that...
Sure there was random nonsense before 267, but was in fact actually random and was happening here and there and not in every game and in the exactly same way. That's my observation. If devs don't like it, i don't care. That's what i've observed. They are the geniuses to figure it out somehow if they are interested.
Comments
I don't think anyone is blaming the game itself, I think it's more related with poor performing servers. The game is just too demanding for them. It's still funny seeing all the ns2 guardians come out and try and pretend nothing is wrong. I also find it hilarious you put these performance warning popup messages on 24+ count servers when half of the 24 slot servers bomb in performance mid-late game. A large majority of the filled servers do it. The way you word those popups, you give the imperssion to new players that you won't have issues elsewhere, and of course when things go laggy and bad on non-labeled servers, who do you think will get the blame? NS2.
Almost all the servers tank under heavy load and fighting. Even the official servers I've seen the tickrate drop to low teens. When it happens, you can throw hit detection out the window.
unfortunately official servers sucked lately.
But there are good servers out there. Basicly the better maintained server DONT lose tickrate lategame.
Well, thats not true.
I know atleast one server wich didnt have any performanceproblems and this server has the same name like my signature
There are some other servers wich also have no problems with endgame.
i can not even play vs bots if the internet is down (and thus can not play with this game on any level).
this is a much greater QA & Usability FAIL than i originally thought.
@Flayra it may be time to make NS2 free-to-play....then maybe you'll get a larger userbase and more community devs.
nobody should be expected to pay for a game that they can not play.
there are already 2 model previews in the main menu using the game engine.
OH MAH GADS AH CANNA PLAE NS2 SINGLAL PLAYAH
Seriously?
The costumization menu has just been added recently, before it was boring suboptions in the settings menu. True, usability of the menu is not up to the scratch, but CDT is working on it and the game has more important zones to tend to. Luxus problem you mention here.
NS2-free-to-play has been discussed.
About your single player rant: This IS a pure multiplayer game, it even says in the requirements that you need internet connection.
edit: it was significant amount as well, he was at a medium range side strafing on the ground (i didn't miss) and all I was getting for seemingly half my clip was blood splatter and nothing more. i only noticed a couple times. edit2: 18 people in the server at the time.
as for the sp-argument to make the game f2p: that's the most ridicolous thing i read in months, seriously hoping you want to troll/provoke. it's like saying i cannot play soccer with myself so now every soccer ball/equipment/club/whatever in the entire world should be completely free for everyone to make up for that. wut?
Just because you see 100% of the server browser doesn't mean you'll get that over the course of an entire match. Profiling for server performance isn't as useful as it should be at the moment and still makes it a guessing game when it comes to weeding out the bad servers at times, hence those screenshots. If the servers showed 50% performance when it's empty, do you think people would still join (with the exception of the larger player count)? These servers need to be weeded out and abandoned by the community.
My region is completely irrelevant to a servers hardware performance. And you see a lot of 100% because the performance label is deceiving. I've joined a couple servers that showed 100% performance only to check why I'm lagging and rubber banding so bad late game and see the server at 40% performance on the server browser. And lets not act like there is a plethora of server selection either, sometimes you're forced to play on these bad servers due to the community being so small.
Edit:
Getting more so 50FPS now, must of just been that one time.
Of course everyone will say that:
a) your aim sucked
b) you were just imagining things
c) your system sucks
d) it's servers fault
The fact that this NEVER happened before 267 on ANY server tells a lot. After 500 hours of gameplay i'd spot at least one case for sure. There were non kills before, but never liek this and never so consistently the same...
e) Get us the data / reproduction steps by providing us with a video.
We haven't seen a thing of it in weeks of testing, and cannot reproduce it, (and others cannot outside of mods) so unfortunately we need more info from users.
Thanks!
It's most notable at the start of the game, because you know Marines are at A0. *Parasite* *chomp* *chomp* .... (huh?) ... *chomp* ... (still not dead?!) ... *chomp* ... Marine finally dies. I'm pretty sure I hit with the bites, and I did not notice any Medpack drops.
To be clear: I don't think there's something wrong with the damage mechanics. Maybe Medpack drops are easier to overlook since 267? Different sound priorities or something? I once noticed Medpacks on the floor after such a situation, but didn't see/hear a single pickup during the fight. That doesn't say anything about the weird effect, but it shows the commander was paying attention and actually trying to med the Marine.
I don't know what mods where running at that time, because I shrugged it off and carried on. But I'll try to capture a video if this happens again.
(For reference, performance is much better for me in 267. Slightly better fps, and everything's much smoother.)
If it counts for anything, the game does feel 'smoother' but only really in the sense that when the game hitches, it's over a longer period of time and to a lower fps... So definitely smoother, however it results, for me, in an overall lower average fps. As i said, its fine just walking around but as soon as marines start shooting it's AWFUL.
Aaaand also I am getting skulk bites not hitting - no sound or feedback, no numbers, but definitely a bite. Like, I've been jumping against a stationary player with him dead in the center of my screen and "missed" a bite. I want to blame the FPS issues for throwing off my register of whether my crosshair was on a guys balls when I clicked, but this was kind of undeniably not due to that.
I'll film some games from OBS and see if I can get any evidence
Every now and then I had hits that didn't register on the server. I started recording all my games with Shadowplay in 1080p @ 60fps. When I played back those situations in slow motion it turns out that I actually didn't hit. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you haven't had problems with hit registration. Just that I thought I had problems but when I looked closer into it it turns out hitreg was just fine.
This happens on NSL gather servers and HBZ for me - I don't play other servers.
Ordinarily, I might have joined the ranks with 'l2p' here, but I'd have been wrong if I did. It might not be on totally vanilla servers, but short of destroying newbies on UWE officials, good luck finding a vanilla server on which to play.
I have seen skulks who I know are going to land those bites find themselves missing them and complaining also about the collision boxes. There is a very real issue somewhere out there, but it's not clear to me at least which mod or mods are causing it.
The problem is the 'Hit Effects' like blood etc, are client-side effects, the client plays them on what it believes to be a hit. However, if the server decides that it wasn't a hit. then it wasn't a hit, regardless of what the client thought.
This is why you see 'hits' registering, but on the server, they are misses, and thus you don't get the server notifications of damage (hitsounds & draw damage). Ignore the blood splatter effects, and notice draw damage and hitsounds. If you get draw damage and hit sounds, server says you hit, and the server is what counts.
Prediction irons this out and will generally get the target correctly. The problem comes in with high moving objects, such as skulks, etc, who can move very quickly and be in a different place to where they were expected to be due to player control. This gives prediction a headache, but it is still much more reliable than not.
Trust me, you would much rather have the predicted system currently used, than having to wait for server confirmation of every command before the world updated..... It would be like a stuttering video playback.... with players being adjusted into new positions all the time.
With the smoother frames, any problems like this that may have been hidden away will begin to show themselves.
I highly doubt this is because of 267, however, I firmly believe that latent issues that have been in the engine and game for a while will become more noticable and prevalent the more the game gets fixed up.
I am getting issues on the vanilla YOclan server, I disabled my client-side mods and it still didnt seem to make a difference
One day I'll take over the world, my plans are far too good.
I don't really see it any smoother (it still starts at 150fps and goes to bottom like it used to and feels pretty much the same while doing that), so that hasn't changed much and thus hasn't skewed the "results". And it started the moment i've updated the game to 267. I was playing 266 the same day in the morning and it was fine. And the day before and the day before that...
Sure there was random nonsense before 267, but was in fact actually random and was happening here and there and not in every game and in the exactly same way. That's my observation. If devs don't like it, i don't care. That's what i've observed. They are the geniuses to figure it out somehow if they are interested.