we played it on sunday but as aliens (i was commanding) we got boxed in very early starting in power silo and marines in vestibule. cyst chains just kept getting cut with marines pressuring through Generator room and elevator shaft. I kind of feel silo access north and viaduct access east need to be connected and maybe viaduct access west to communications hub.
Maybe we should of gone for a gorge rush and go hive drop down cargo bay or some other map specific tactic but it was quite hard to consider doing that when marines were pressuring us so heavily.
Needs more games I think. Its got a lot of potential, and the fact I cant recall the original didn't help matters. If I command again i'll try form a strong game plan from the start
Alright. Well, this map seems kinda terrible for NS2. It is very long corridors, the tunnels that do exist tends to be horribly long and out of the way, and every important room is huge, and that will make Jetpacks into gods. Viaduct to Kismet tunnels is also insanely long. Cargo to Viaduct West is also horribly long, and completely flat. One Marine in there will block an infinite number of Skulks.
Like, the map itself needs a reorganizing as well. The Cargo Bay into Generator into Vestibule has an ungodly amount of res. If the Aliens spawn on the North side of the map, like what happened in the custom map play test, it is over for Aliens. As Marines, I just had to control Generator Room and I got 5 res locations due to having the South side of the map. I know this is breaking the original map, but I see no sane reason for the southeast side of the map to control so many res points in such a tiny area.
I know this is a rework, but it needs original work to be done to it to make it great for NS2. Generator into Vestibule overall seems like it is decent. Silo and everything on the West side of the map seems kind of bad. Silo itself is so far from any res that it hurts.
Edit. It should be noted that I want to love all maps. I am not a hater!
Awesome thanks @Gibs. Was funny reading the in game comm and listening to those wise words of one of your mates over voice chat.
What I will be focusing on next is:
- finish the last entry into Viaduct
- Replace the vent from Cargo to Viaduct with a few rooms
- Add a new room from Viaduct to Silo so Viaduct isn't completely locked down from the Intimidation area.
- Rework the center of the map around gen. Will most likely remove the TP but will see how everything looks after the mods.
- Fix the hallways around the map.
Thanks again for the video. If you guys play anymore rounds on it let me know, I might be able to jump on depending the time....I'm in Sydney so we will see.
It appears this is another port that hasn't followed the same map orientation as the original. Not sure how much work is involved in rotating a whole map in NS2 or if it's even worthwhile doing, but NS1 players would be less confused if the key points were in the same place on their screen as they are used to. This only affects the map views anyway.
Original orientation showing power silo is at the north east (the two corridors two it are labeled "Silo Access North/South" and really are north/south of the power silo hive location):
Looks like I'm already subscribed to it on the workshop. Will look forward to playing this.
This is a question which I have seen appear a few times now and unfortunately I don't believe I will be able to rotate it.
I ported the map directly from NS1 and didn't rotate it at all. However I believe the angle at which NS2 views from is different from the HL engine and has caused the minimap to rotate.
If I were to rotate the map back to the original orientation, it would cause a lot of the props and faces within the map to become unaligned from the grid, which makes it harder to work on.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I believe the coordinate system is left-handed in Spark, whereas it was right handed in HL. This causes me huge issues when navigating a map, as I always seem to be going the wrong way. Or maybe it's just the overviews that come out rotated, but I noticed this when mapping myself in Beta, I couldn't tell left from right on the minimap, but hey...
Fair enough. I'm sure we'll all get used to it anyway.
It may be useful to rename some corridors though to account for the new orientation. Power silo north/south to west/east, and viaduct east/west to north/south for example so the names on the map make more sense.
Fantastic screenshots though, and I'm also curious to see how the tech point in generator room works out. This was always a key room to maintain in the NS1 days and now you've given it a useable merit for holding in the same way crossroads and hydroanalysis have on summit/descent. I did wonder if generator room would be too small for a tech point, but then again good that it can't be turtled so hard. This could be cleared out with a good bile, arc, or grenades making it a task to defend.
I've had an explore. First thoughts, very impressed indeed. The first thing I noticed when joining marines is I started in cargo, so it's great to see you've not made marines start in a static location. Biodome, eclipse, and veil are all a disadvantage to the marines with their static start position. In my opinion maps need to stop doing this.
As a developer and tester for another game I of course couldn't resist noticing some detail issues. Here's what I found:
Loading screen: I know some official maps have the map cut off a little bit on 4:3 screens, but yours is very cut off indeed.
Ventilation Chamber: The signs on the wall behind the resource node cut in to the wall brush making them flicker. More easily seen by approaching them than in a screen shot.
The Viaduct: There is a slight clipping issue when walking up between the stairs and wall shown. You often snag with the stairs. (trivial issue, just adds a tiny delay)
Vent at S77 vestibule (didn't screenshot): If you go in that vent as a marine or gorge you'll be stuck there until death. I think this happened in NS1 too though.
Didn't bother screenshotting the leaks in viaduct access west as it's obviously not completed.
Still -- Excellent progress, and a fine re-work indeed. I look forward to playing a round on here.
It may be useful to rename some corridors though to account for the new orientation. Power silo north/south to west/east, and viaduct east/west to north/south for example so the names on the map make more sense.
Fantastic screenshots though, and I'm also curious to see how the tech point in generator room works out. This was always a key room to maintain in the NS1 days and now you've given it a useable merit for holding in the same way crossroads and hydroanalysis have on summit/descent. I did wonder if generator room would be too small for a tech point, but then again good that it can't be turtled so hard. This could be cleared out with a good bile, arc, or grenades making it a task to defend.
Exactly my thoughts as well and that's why I stuck a TP in there. After I rework the room I think it will play out a lot better.
I've had an explore. First thoughts, very impressed indeed. The first thing I noticed when joining marines is I started in cargo, so it's great to see you've not made marines start in a static location. Biodome, eclipse, and veil are all a disadvantage to the marines with their static start position. In my opinion maps need to stop doing this.
Yeah I agree. I find it adds an extra dynamic to each round because you will need to mix your strats up.
Loading screen: I know some official maps have the map cut off a little bit on 4:3 screens, but yours is very cut off indeed.
Ventilation Chamber: The signs on the wall behind the resource node cut in to the wall brush making them flicker. More easily seen by approaching them than in a screen shot.
The Viaduct: There is a slight clipping issue when walking up between the stairs and wall shown. You often snag with the stairs. (trivial issue, just adds a tiny delay)
Vent at S77 vestibule (didn't screenshot): If you go in that vent as a marine or gorge you'll be stuck there until death. I think this happened in NS1 too though.
- Interesting. I thought I made the screenshots the exact same size as the official ones. Will add this to the things to look at down the track.
-Thanks for point this out, I will fix it up.
- ^
- haha yeah I noticed that vent last night when I was watching the video @Gibs made for me. Will fix this up next build.
- Will also fix this one next build.
-^
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2014
It is possible to rotate the map without screwing with the grid placement of faces and props. You can create huge face that covers the whole map and some more in the top view, then select everything and rotate it. Then with the move tool press "."(punctuation mark) to change where the move pivot is placed and make sure that the corner you are controlling is at the same grid size that it was before rotating. Make sure you use the texture lock as well so you don't ruin any texture work you have done. This should not put anything off grid.
Hope that helps, and that the map can get its original rotation back!
Edit: I actually realized that it may be necessary to use this method for faces and props separately, just repeat the exact method for each and it should be even better! This is the method I use when I need to move around larger parts of my maps.
It is possible to rotate the map without screwing with the grid placement of faces and props. You can create huge face that covers the whole map and some more in the top view, then select everything and rotate it. Then with the move tool press "."(punctuation mark) to change where the move pivot is placed and make sure that the corner you are controlling is at the same grid size that it was before rotating. Make sure you use the texture lock as well so you don't ruin any texture work you have done. This should not put anything off grid.
Hope that helps, and that the map can get its original rotation back!
Edit: I actually realized that it may be necessary to use this method for faces and props separately, just repeat the exact method for each and it should be even better! This is the method I use when I need to move around larger parts of my maps.
Better way: Select everything in the map (geo, props, lights, EVERYTHING). Rotate that 90 degree or however many degrees you want it rotated. Grab any previously on-grid vertex from the level (ie a corner -- something that should be on the grid). Copy + paste that vertex, and move that vertex to be on-grid in all 3 dimensions. Then, select everything that was rotated, and, keeping in mind the original vertex you had copied, click and drag that vertex over to the one you pasted in that's on-grid. Everything in the level should snap back into place.
I own and operate the server Black Mesa Research Facility, I gave this map a play-through on my server at full capacity and figured I would share some general feedback with you;
I thought the map looked great, general consensus from the players was that they felt the map was overly dark, but looked good visually. (I don't mind darkness personally). Others mentioned more or less that there's just issues during comm view with walls inherently blocking med/ammo drops, etc. Obviously some of the guys who hadn't played custom maps asked about west viaduct and I explained it was a [WIP]. I would like to see this map completed, and when you do finish it I would love to add it to my map rotation. Anyhow it's one of the better custom maps as relates to feedback and they'd like to experience it as a polished entity.
Nonetheless, I just want to encourage you to keep on keepin' on and know that it'd have a place in the rotation at my server. Thanks for making this for the community.
Still working on the next update, but here are the minimap changes so far:
- Extended Threshold and added a res node.
- Removed res node from docking
- Removed res node from Vent Chamber
- Modified entrances to Cargo
- Reworking rooms between Cargo and Viaduct
- Modified Viaduct Access to join into Silo Access. Also now includes a res node.
Still need to rework the middle of the map around Gen.
Spent a good portion of the weekend working on it actually. I've reworked the entire middle of the map and moved res nodes around to make things more symmetrical.
Another week or two and I should be able to publish the next update to steam
Oh btw, with the latest NS2 release - I've now enabled Red Room for gorges to place tunnels This is something I always wanted to do, however I will keep an eye on the impact it has to gameplay mechanics,
I will post up some screenies soon of the new rooms I've developed.
I find it difficult to get the right lighting in particular areas sometimes. Maybe I'm not using them right but will play with them more once I've sorted out the layout.
Alright, I just walked through the map a bit, and here are my thoughts,
I am giving criticism to make the map become an official,
- First off, Cargo bay transfer, The Hive seems out of siege range and has only one entrance point, I don't know if this is going to be like in the final version, and I know it has it in ns1, and for ns1 it was fine, but I think every hive needs at least 2 entrance points and 1 outside siege location.
- The middle tech point, great, someone who listens, small, competitive and hard to hold.
- My biggest concern, The long small hallways, we've seen it in ns_eclipse and it has been the biggest concern for ns1 players. Here you made them even smaller and longer, which means you become a practise target for a marine, because you can't hide behind anything, or fight them head on. I know they were like that in ns1 but I think you need to make them wider, or have object behind them where aliens can hide behind or ambush. Here is a list of hallways that have my concern
Silo access North really needs a change
- The map is very 2 dimensional, and with that I mean there is only one layer to fight on. The hallways have low ceilings, I really see you tried to copy over ns2_nothing 1 on 1, but the game has changed a lot, and on a game like this, the map needs to change a bit aswell. I wouldnt wanna be a lerk on this map.
- Viadcut is set up a bit weird, the hallway ( north to south) is way to long (due to the limits of the drawdistance) You cannot properly siege the tech point. I would redesign viaduct, Place the Hive a bit more north, and make sure you can siege it from viaduct acces east, Or remove red room, build a hallway (and room) between viaduct hallway east and west with a lot of vent access from multiple point, (including above)
- I would recommend in adding a hallway, + small room of some kind between viaduct access west and cargo bay foyer, this way cargo bay foyer can be sieged, and then remove the fixed spawn for marines and aliens, Make sure they spawn somewhere in one of the 4 outer techpoints. This way the games will be unpredictable for both marines and aliens, (giving marines a fixed start is kinda unfair)
I would also recommend to make the vents a bit wider...
Comments
Yes, will stick this on YO!
Maybe we should of gone for a gorge rush and go hive drop down cargo bay or some other map specific tactic but it was quite hard to consider doing that when marines were pressuring us so heavily.
Needs more games I think. Its got a lot of potential, and the fact I cant recall the original didn't help matters. If I command again i'll try form a strong game plan from the start
Like, the map itself needs a reorganizing as well. The Cargo Bay into Generator into Vestibule has an ungodly amount of res. If the Aliens spawn on the North side of the map, like what happened in the custom map play test, it is over for Aliens. As Marines, I just had to control Generator Room and I got 5 res locations due to having the South side of the map. I know this is breaking the original map, but I see no sane reason for the southeast side of the map to control so many res points in such a tiny area.
I know this is a rework, but it needs original work to be done to it to make it great for NS2. Generator into Vestibule overall seems like it is decent. Silo and everything on the West side of the map seems kind of bad. Silo itself is so far from any res that it hurts.
Edit. It should be noted that I want to love all maps. I am not a hater!
Try doing romms in these corridors would work better with the map.
Change those corridors or this beautiful map full of nostalgia also fall into oblivion as my map ns2_triad.
What I will be focusing on next is:
- finish the last entry into Viaduct
- Replace the vent from Cargo to Viaduct with a few rooms
- Add a new room from Viaduct to Silo so Viaduct isn't completely locked down from the Intimidation area.
- Rework the center of the map around gen. Will most likely remove the TP but will see how everything looks after the mods.
- Fix the hallways around the map.
Thanks again for the video. If you guys play anymore rounds on it let me know, I might be able to jump on depending the time....I'm in Sydney so we will see.
Looks like I'm already subscribed to it on the workshop. Will look forward to playing this.
This is a question which I have seen appear a few times now and unfortunately I don't believe I will be able to rotate it.
I ported the map directly from NS1 and didn't rotate it at all. However I believe the angle at which NS2 views from is different from the HL engine and has caused the minimap to rotate.
If I were to rotate the map back to the original orientation, it would cause a lot of the props and faces within the map to become unaligned from the grid, which makes it harder to work on.
Hope that explains why I won't be able to do it.
It may be useful to rename some corridors though to account for the new orientation. Power silo north/south to west/east, and viaduct east/west to north/south for example so the names on the map make more sense.
Fantastic screenshots though, and I'm also curious to see how the tech point in generator room works out. This was always a key room to maintain in the NS1 days and now you've given it a useable merit for holding in the same way crossroads and hydroanalysis have on summit/descent. I did wonder if generator room would be too small for a tech point, but then again good that it can't be turtled so hard. This could be cleared out with a good bile, arc, or grenades making it a task to defend.
I've had an explore. First thoughts, very impressed indeed. The first thing I noticed when joining marines is I started in cargo, so it's great to see you've not made marines start in a static location. Biodome, eclipse, and veil are all a disadvantage to the marines with their static start position. In my opinion maps need to stop doing this.
As a developer and tester for another game I of course couldn't resist noticing some detail issues.
Loading screen: I know some official maps have the map cut off a little bit on 4:3 screens, but yours is very cut off indeed.
Ventilation Chamber: The signs on the wall behind the resource node cut in to the wall brush making them flicker. More easily seen by approaching them than in a screen shot.
The Junction: There are a few leaks in the brushwork here. Another | Another
Between ominous kismet, elevator shaft 01, and silo access north: There is a vent you can enter but is soon blocked by a fan grate. Possibly intended, though the vent continues to ominous kismet.
The Viaduct: There is a slight clipping issue when walking up between the stairs and wall shown. You often snag with the stairs. (trivial issue, just adds a tiny delay)
Vent at S77 vestibule (didn't screenshot): If you go in that vent as a marine or gorge you'll be stuck there until death. I think this happened in NS1 too though.
Didn't bother screenshotting the leaks in viaduct access west as it's obviously not completed.
Still -- Excellent progress, and a fine re-work indeed. I look forward to playing a round on here.
Will do.
Exactly my thoughts as well and that's why I stuck a TP in there. After I rework the room I think it will play out a lot better.
Yeah I agree. I find it adds an extra dynamic to each round because you will need to mix your strats up.
- Interesting. I thought I made the screenshots the exact same size as the official ones. Will add this to the things to look at down the track.
-Thanks for point this out, I will fix it up.
- ^
- haha yeah I noticed that vent last night when I was watching the video @Gibs made for me. Will fix this up next build.
- Will also fix this one next build.
-^
Thanks again for the feedback
Hope that helps, and that the map can get its original rotation back!
Edit: I actually realized that it may be necessary to use this method for faces and props separately, just repeat the exact method for each and it should be even better! This is the method I use when I need to move around larger parts of my maps.
Better way: Select everything in the map (geo, props, lights, EVERYTHING). Rotate that 90 degree or however many degrees you want it rotated. Grab any previously on-grid vertex from the level (ie a corner -- something that should be on the grid). Copy + paste that vertex, and move that vertex to be on-grid in all 3 dimensions. Then, select everything that was rotated, and, keeping in mind the original vertex you had copied, click and drag that vertex over to the one you pasted in that's on-grid. Everything in the level should snap back into place.
Firstly, here is the link to the round http://ns2stats.com/round/round/204819
I thought the map looked great, general consensus from the players was that they felt the map was overly dark, but looked good visually. (I don't mind darkness personally). Others mentioned more or less that there's just issues during comm view with walls inherently blocking med/ammo drops, etc. Obviously some of the guys who hadn't played custom maps asked about west viaduct and I explained it was a [WIP]. I would like to see this map completed, and when you do finish it I would love to add it to my map rotation. Anyhow it's one of the better custom maps as relates to feedback and they'd like to experience it as a polished entity.
Nonetheless, I just want to encourage you to keep on keepin' on and know that it'd have a place in the rotation at my server. Thanks for making this for the community.
- Extended Threshold and added a res node.
- Removed res node from docking
- Removed res node from Vent Chamber
- Modified entrances to Cargo
- Reworking rooms between Cargo and Viaduct
- Modified Viaduct Access to join into Silo Access. Also now includes a res node.
Still need to rework the middle of the map around Gen.
Still working on it? *hopes!*
Spent a good portion of the weekend working on it actually. I've reworked the entire middle of the map and moved res nodes around to make things more symmetrical.
Another week or two and I should be able to publish the next update to steam
I will post up some screenies soon of the new rooms I've developed.
I'm still working on the middle of the map as well as changing communications and viaduct access.
Hopefully this will tie you over for a few more weeks
Enjoy
p.s the screenshots are a little darker compared to in game.
Reworked "Ominous Kismet"
New junction between Viaduct and Power Silo:
Modified cargo entrance:
New "Threshold" res location to even it out
Why using so many ambient lights ?
I find it difficult to get the right lighting in particular areas sometimes. Maybe I'm not using them right but will play with them more once I've sorted out the layout.
Followed by adding audio.
Remaining items I need to address before the release:
- Finish viaduct access ceiling
- Update occlusions
- Update locations
- Hide models from commander view
I am giving criticism to make the map become an official,
- First off, Cargo bay transfer, The Hive seems out of siege range and has only one entrance point, I don't know if this is going to be like in the final version, and I know it has it in ns1, and for ns1 it was fine, but I think every hive needs at least 2 entrance points and 1 outside siege location.
- The middle tech point, great, someone who listens, small, competitive and hard to hold.
- My biggest concern, The long small hallways, we've seen it in ns_eclipse and it has been the biggest concern for ns1 players. Here you made them even smaller and longer, which means you become a practise target for a marine, because you can't hide behind anything, or fight them head on. I know they were like that in ns1 but I think you need to make them wider, or have object behind them where aliens can hide behind or ambush. Here is a list of hallways that have my concern
Silo access North really needs a change
- The map is very 2 dimensional, and with that I mean there is only one layer to fight on. The hallways have low ceilings, I really see you tried to copy over ns2_nothing 1 on 1, but the game has changed a lot, and on a game like this, the map needs to change a bit aswell. I wouldnt wanna be a lerk on this map.
- Viadcut is set up a bit weird, the hallway ( north to south) is way to long (due to the limits of the drawdistance) You cannot properly siege the tech point. I would redesign viaduct, Place the Hive a bit more north, and make sure you can siege it from viaduct acces east, Or remove red room, build a hallway (and room) between viaduct hallway east and west with a lot of vent access from multiple point, (including above)
- I would recommend in adding a hallway, + small room of some kind between viaduct access west and cargo bay foyer, this way cargo bay foyer can be sieged, and then remove the fixed spawn for marines and aliens, Make sure they spawn somewhere in one of the 4 outer techpoints. This way the games will be unpredictable for both marines and aliens, (giving marines a fixed start is kinda unfair)
I would also recommend to make the vents a bit wider...
The released map is still the old version and I have addressed some of the points you mentioned in the new one which will be out this week.
Once the new map is out I would appreciate any feedback you have on it.
There are still a few long hallways I need to work on in future builds along with reworking the hives to improve gameplay.
You will see the reworked cargo and generator (now transport) in the build coming out this weekend.
Cheers