Combat Developer Q&A with Faultline Games - Natural Selection 2

24

Comments

  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Oh my god, they really did put devour back in. I cannot say how disappointed I am. Combat is great, but competitive mode combat mod is even better, largely because there aren't any oni, exos and xeno ruining the game.

    There is NOTHING you can do to make devour a good gameplay mechanic. It is ridiculously frustrating, takes away from the skill aspect of the game, and reduces the quality of the game.

    This is so unbelievably disappointing. I really really wanted to support combat, but now I just cannot justify it. Devour has no place in this game. None.


    i can see devour being more useful in standard ns2 becuase its more of a teamplay mechanic, combat doesnt really need features like devour imo
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
    edited June 2014
    Get 4 marines to tase the onos and he poops the undigested marine out. Tase him, bros.
  • DefaultErrorDefaultError Minnesota Join Date: 2013-10-31 Member: 188917Members, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Really looking forward to this, preorder for sure :D
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Roobubba wrote: »
    There is NOTHING you can do to make devour a good gameplay mechanic.

    Only a sith thinks in extremes
    Absolutes, not extremes...

    You can't mess that line up, man :-/ ... it was basically the only good dialogue out of all 3 of the new movies.

  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    Maybe he watched it in german.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    I did watch it in German. I'm terribly sorry.
  • the_tickthe_tick Netherlands Join Date: 2014-01-20 Member: 193352Members
    edited June 2014
    Here is an idea, get the exo out of the game, reintroduce the HMG, but not the heavy, instead make some kind of crysis suit where you can straf burst to the left, right and forward. like 5 meters, with an energy meter, when u use it twice it needs to recharge... Makes it harder for aliens to aim...

    I mean the game is based in a science fiction setting...
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
    edited June 2014
    the_tick wrote: »
    Here is an idea, get the exo out of the game, reintroduce the HMG, but not the heavy, instead make some kind of crysis suit where you can straf burst to the left, right and forward. like 5 meters, with an energy meter, when u use it twice it needs to recharge... Makes it harder for aliens to aim...

    I mean the game is based in a science fiction setting...

    Lmao. On everything said and concluded from that. Too much to type. I'm hoping it's sarcasm.
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    Game needs more Exo.... stop making me play Titanfall for my Mech fix :P
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    the_tick wrote: »
    Here is an idea, get the exo out of the game, reintroduce the HMG, but not the heavy, instead make some kind of crysis suit where you can straf burst to the left, right and forward. like 5 meters, with an energy meter, when u use it twice it needs to recharge... Makes it harder for aliens to aim...

    I mean the game is based in a science fiction setting...

    dude you really have to let go NS1.
  • the_tickthe_tick Netherlands Join Date: 2014-01-20 Member: 193352Members
    the_tick wrote: »
    Here is an idea, get the exo out of the game, reintroduce the HMG, but not the heavy, instead make some kind of crysis suit where you can straf burst to the left, right and forward. like 5 meters, with an energy meter, when u use it twice it needs to recharge... Makes it harder for aliens to aim...

    I mean the game is based in a science fiction setting...

    dude you really have to let go NS1.


    Dude, that isn't NS1, Troll
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    the_tick wrote: »
    the_tick wrote: »
    Here is an idea, get the exo out of the game, reintroduce the HMG, but not the heavy, instead make some kind of crysis suit where you can straf burst to the left, right and forward. like 5 meters, with an energy meter, when u use it twice it needs to recharge... Makes it harder for aliens to aim...

    I mean the game is based in a science fiction setting...

    dude you really have to let go NS1.


    Dude, that isn't NS1, Troll

    Well, "NS1" is a useful disambiguation to make it clear that I don't speak of the Natural Selection franchise as a whole - which would include NS2 - but only NS2's precedessor Natural Selection.

    ...
  • odkkenodkken Join Date: 2013-09-14 Member: 188234Members
    For anyone worried about the rage-inducing qualities of devour, I can say with confidence I hated it as much as, probably more than you did. Since NS1, I've almost exclusively played marines, and when people were asking us to put devour back in at PAX, I had a hard time not laughing in their faces. It was absolutely horrible in its initial implementation, and I question anyone's opinion on balance who says otherwise.

    In its current implementation, believe it or not, it actually adds to the experience for both teams. We would not have added it just for the sake of being able to say "look, here's another ability" - we put it back in because aliens actually need a way to deal with extremely fast (yes, faster than ever before) jetpackers, and we thought we could salvage devour. The alternative is to slow jetpacking way down, but is that really a more fun solution for anyone?

    In the ~1.5 months since we implemented the ability in its current form, I have not once been frustrated being devoured (perhaps because, for a number of reasons, it occurs very rarely), and I encourage everyone who is curious about how it plays to apply to the playtest group:

    http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135005/ns2-combat-looking-for-playtesters
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited June 2014
    So your answer to an apparently overpowered jetpack is to include a 1-shot time-waster ability?

    Is the time between being devoured and respawning (if killed) the same as time between normal death and spawn? How long does it take to devour a player - is it dependent on health? If so, what is the maximum time the devoured player will have to do nothing before being permitted to play the game again? Does the player have the option to /kill to respawn?

    If I'm devoured, will I be spending the next minute doing absolutely nothing?

    You're not selling this idea at all well, and believe me, you didn't hate devour more than me. It absolutely ruined NS1 for me, and I had to stop playing it entirely.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited June 2014
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    I knew you were one of the players who kills himself inside an onos xD
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Who wouldn't. The novelty wears off half way through being devoured the first time. It's just a time waster. You know if the onos is going to die and you'll be permitted to play again the instant it happens.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Bind k "kill"

    Muahahahaha
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    A suicide option is needed, one that still gives an Onos the benefit for devouring a marine while still keeping the devour ability on cooldown.

    That or they could wait it out if they think they'll survive. Also you could make it harder to use, like requiring the marine to be on the ground via stomp in order to be devoured.
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    Give the Onos health or stamina if he suicides. Then ppl can chose what is more important to them/the team. A damaged Onos or a faster spawn. Win win. But just exploiting your way out of a game mechanic is too cheap.
  • the_tickthe_tick Netherlands Join Date: 2014-01-20 Member: 193352Members
    RapGod wrote: »
    the_tick wrote: »
    Here is an idea, get the exo out of the game, reintroduce the HMG, but not the heavy, instead make some kind of crysis suit where you can straf burst to the left, right and forward. like 5 meters, with an energy meter, when u use it twice it needs to recharge... Makes it harder for aliens to aim...

    I mean the game is based in a science fiction setting...

    Lmao. On everything said and concluded from that. Too much to type. I'm hoping it's sarcasm.


    constructive feedback isn't your thing huh, that's what I can conclude from your behavior on this forum.
  • the_tickthe_tick Netherlands Join Date: 2014-01-20 Member: 193352Members
    Devour is the one thing that made the game great, the ability to eat your opponent was something unique, and still there isn't a game out there where you can do this. Also, there are a million ways to make devour less "overpowered" 2nd, I think the combat system used in NS1 can use a slight change, more customization ala LoL, since that is what the public wants nowadays, so for example, items you can buy with different statistics and buffs... Hell, even throw a new life form in there, to mix it up a bit more, it is combat, it can use a change from the default ns combat a bit...

    In combination with some good multi-dimensional mapping I think it could be great, Don't forget to add objectives to the game, that would make it great.
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
    the_tick wrote: »
    RapGod wrote: »
    the_tick wrote: »
    Here is an idea, get the exo out of the game, reintroduce the HMG, but not the heavy, instead make some kind of crysis suit where you can straf burst to the left, right and forward. like 5 meters, with an energy meter, when u use it twice it needs to recharge... Makes it harder for aliens to aim...

    I mean the game is based in a science fiction setting...

    Lmao. On everything said and concluded from that. Too much to type. I'm hoping it's sarcasm.


    constructive feedback isn't your thing huh, that's what I can conclude from your behavior on this forum.

    Again, I hope this is sarcasm. I'm sorry that some of your ideas are absurd. I don't think I'm alone in this. You made a post that wasn't constructive either. More of a joke. I seriously had hoped that was a troll post. Sorry I mixed trolling with being absurd.
  • the_tickthe_tick Netherlands Join Date: 2014-01-20 Member: 193352Members
    edited June 2014
    RapGod wrote: »
    the_tick wrote: »
    RapGod wrote: »
    the_tick wrote: »
    Here is an idea, get the exo out of the game, reintroduce the HMG, but not the heavy, instead make some kind of crysis suit where you can straf burst to the left, right and forward. like 5 meters, with an energy meter, when u use it twice it needs to recharge... Makes it harder for aliens to aim...

    I mean the game is based in a science fiction setting...

    Lmao. On everything said and concluded from that. Too much to type. I'm hoping it's sarcasm.


    constructive feedback isn't your thing huh, that's what I can conclude from your behavior on this forum.

    Again, I hope this is sarcasm. I'm sorry that some of your ideas are absurd. I don't think I'm alone in this. You made a post that wasn't constructive either. More of a joke. I seriously had hoped that was a troll post. Sorry I mixed trolling with being absurd.

    [Mod-Edit] I need to be nicer to people.
  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Members
    Wait a sec..

    Aren't you the troll? Fuck the internet is confusing.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited June 2014
    [ModeEdit]
    omg
    such Mode
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited June 2014
    The Tick got.rekt by Obi. :D

    But really guys, I have yet to see a legit reason why Devour should be in the game. Ject's statement pretty much sums everything up.
    Jekt wrote: »
    Who wouldn't. The novelty wears off half way through being devoured the first time. It's just a time waster. You know if the onos is going to die and you'll be permitted to play again the instant it happens.
  • odkkenodkken Join Date: 2013-09-14 Member: 188234Members
    edited June 2014
    Hopefully to soothe some concerns about wasted time, a full hp/armor marine with full nano armor takes about 6 seconds to die in a belly. During that time, they can deal ~50% of an onos max HP in damage.

    Somewhat unrelated: respawning no longer happens in waves, and spawn times on average have gone way down.
  • NinjiNinji Join Date: 2009-07-11 Member: 68109Members
    Personally I think devour should have stayed in NS2, in NS1 its purpose was like that of a majority of the Special Zombies in the L4D series. It was to keep the players together and nervous, and not running off [although people still do that, though most get pounced and have to sit there and watch as a leaper then begins clawing at their face for the next 10-20 seconds depending, and they have no ability to respond, no punching/struggling]. Funny how there is no complaints there.

    I mean granted the Onos could run off with you, but your commander could easily tell where it was by listening and warn you before hand [or your team afterwards if you were kidnapped] if he invested into the beacon enough and there was a high chance of being able to get free, ...unless it was working together with the rest of its team you could chase the Onos and gun it down quite easily. I always liked the mechanic, not only did it punish you for not sticking close to your team, it also punished you for not being aware of your surroundings (you could hear the Onos a mile away most of the time, especially if it had kidnapped a fellow marine lol) but it also reinforced teamwork in others because being down one person while you have the enemy team right outside your door isn't a inviting proposition, also the fact that you could lose a very expensively equipped player just outright hurt, [ not taking into account the loss of manpower too...], in NS1 if a Onos ran off with a HMG(heavy machine gun) Exo [+ Jetpack if modded, I forget if it was only in mods that you could combine Exo and Jetpacks...] player that was ultimately at the least a hit in your resources and manpower due to time lost which was perfect.

    Things like that encouraged team-members to try their best to push after the Onos [usually... if they were competent :P] and try to save their teammate or at least get the HMG ( :P ). I have had that happen in the past by the way, way... way back when NS1 was more popular. [Fun times]

    Personally however, I am going to wait and see how this Combat standalone does, I'm itching to throw money at the developers... but I already threw money at a game before only to have sections ripped out underneath my feet for the sake of streamlining due to FoTM complaints from FoTM players... However, though my wallet 'IS' at the ready and the moment I see some stable gameplay... and if the developers don't cave to the negligible excuse of: "I have to wait X amount seconds and then wait 2-3 more seconds to respawn!" (Need I remind everyone of L4D1 and 2? Unless you were surrounded by a horde, you were going to get slapped/strangled/slammed/ridden on repeatedly until death and you had to sit there and watch it and you couldn't do a thing about it yourself... and then wait for your team to possibly progress to a magical checkpoint possibly a few minutes or more later where anyone dead would appear behind the 'locked' door and hope they opened that door for you. [or finished the level]

    So, all I can say is, if this development team is sticking a bit closer to the roots [while giving a refreshing change without making the iconic ability too useless, aside from the previously stated reasons a Onos used devour 'usually' for the HP regen as well.] Then I wont be too afraid to show my support.
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