* New players often don't realize the importance of armor (if you heal them, they almost always leave just after they recieve full health and little/no armor). The armor portion of the health meter could be displayed in an exaggerated way, as if it corresponded to a certain amount of health points (assume normal damage). This would make it apparent that it is more important than health points.
Good ideas, and that one is actually how NS2 already works!
So for example, a gorge without carapace (160 HP and 75 armor) will have a armor bar the size of just below half of the health/armor circle. A skulk with carapace is close to half as well (43%). With an armor point being worth two HP points, this is already a good representation.
Simplest solution would be to make the HP and energy display elements scalable, no? They've always been relatively small in my opinion, and while you can certainly get used to them, I think newer players would appreciate the option to scale them up a bit.
A more transparent version of planet side 2 's alternative / experimental HUD could work I believe.
I don't know about you guys, but personally I think that is obnoxious
Ingame you never see it actually, you only notice it when you have to notice it. Go try it it's free!
At least it is way better and usable than what we have in NS2.
But yeah, I don't think the interface is the main problem.
There is one thing that drives me crazy for a long time now. It is rather unimportant, but it jumps in my face every day...
If I join a server and fail (server full etc.), I get thrown back to the main menu and not the server browser. Is there a reason behind that? Must it be that way? Would that be easy to change? Just an idea if you have too much time :P
A more transparent version of planet side 2 's alternative / experimental HUD could work I believe.
I don't know about you guys, but personally I think that is obnoxious
If left permanently on the screen yeah it would be but parts of it only show up when they are relevant as you can see in the vid below. Left would be jetpack, Right ammo, bottom health.
IMO I would rather keep what we currently have then implement that exactly but the "centralized hud" idea ps2 uses Is very convenient at times. I would prob use a hud like this for ns2 if it was made more minimalistic.
If there's one thing holding NS2 back from having that 'polished' feel, it's lack of a refined, bloat-free HUD.
You can subscribe to the MOD NS2+ in order to give yourself more options for a clean HUD.
I hear people say this a lot "just subscribe to ns2+" yet not all servers run ns2+, Its not really a solution. An actual solution would be to get many of the HUD options from ns2+ into 267.
Except for that time when we walled in the IPs with armories to see what would happen if they couldn't get pushed anywhere. Verdict: don't do that.
And clogged up IP's ? Thats to happen slightly more often in an acual game.
I can't remember if we tested that or not, but it should produce the same result. The system simply applies a physics force to nudge an idle player off the IP, but it doesn't do anything special. If something is in the way that prevents them from being nudged far enough they can stay on it and still create a problem. Anything more radical has a solid chance to create bigger problems, so we went with the simple solution that, while not covering every edge case, works in most "reasonable" scenarios.
TL;DR - it's better than nothing without being worse than nothing.
Ns2 is way too fast paced to warrant a ps2 style health bar, please don't waste any time on this. You only have time to really consciously check and base your next move on the remaining % as an exo or onos. In all other life forms there is no reason to check your hp mid engagement, if you do then your playing it wrong. <- just to elaborate, I mean you should kinda know if your getting shot at, right? And if you are then gtfo of the room ^^
In all honestly I can't see why ns2+ isn't being adapted into build 267 in its entirety, Any particular reason @WasabiOne ?
If there's one thing holding NS2 back from having that 'polished' feel, it's lack of a refined, bloat-free HUD.
You can subscribe to the MOD NS2+ in order to give yourself more options for a clean HUD.
It usually fails consistency on non-ns2+ servers.
Could we just make it so any server NOT running ns2+ crashes constantly? IMO, ns2+ isn't even optional for a server. Either it's on the server, or I'm not playing.
Is there a breakdown of what ns2+ features will be incorporated, and which aren't? I'd really like to see the changes to atmospherics come into the game. (Instead of on/off, you get a 0.0-1.0 slider, and flashlight atmospherics get a separate slider). Personally, I have a tough time aiming if I don't have the flashlight on (maybe it's just dark rooms w/ shadow skulks? can't say for sure), and I hate knowing I might be blinding my teammates who for whatever reason are playing with atmospherics on.
EDIT: Actually, while we're at it, just get rid of the whole damned flashlight atmospherics, or at least make 0.0 the default value. I can't even think of an up-side here to having that on.
* The player sounds do not indicate damage properly. [...] Most FPS since doom have had something like this, including NS1; you take a big chunk of damage in one hit or in a short amount of time and you make a special pain noise.
great point here. but playing different sounds might be tricky with the voice actors already being done with their stuff. so just in case, what other options are there? playing the sound with different volume might work to a certain degree (maybe only for the person being hit) but probably not all the way... anyone got some more ideas?
* The health counter does nothing obvious to indicate current health that can be seen without looking directly at it. There are many plausible ways to do this. [...] You can change colour gradually from green through to red in direct proportion to the health (again including armor as health, assuming normal damage). You can unfurl the little circular bar into a straight bar and display it with a length proportional to remaining health so that it's easily visible in the corner of your eye.
i'm very much in favor of a more striking health display, but i highly recommend experimenting with multiple different color schemes:
this might turn up something which fits even better into the HUD and/or works better with different map textures in the background around the health indicator.
also, it might be easier to read the health from the corner of your eye (e.g. a certain type of green might not work too well on kodiak).
and there is another thing to consider: about 0.5% of females and 8% of males are red-green color blind (if you think about it, that's actually quite a significant number of people).
although the green->yellow->red color scheme is very very popular among games since decades, this issue is already being addressed by (relatively) new games such as League of Legends or Faster than Light by introducing the option to use a different color scheme for health bars, one that does not contain green and red at the same time. i'm not colorblind myself but i still often use these settings as they simply look better (in my opinion at least, maybe because its a refreshing change).
i admit that green->yellow->red is very easy to understand initially (because it's so popular in many games), but i doubt it will longer than 1-2 matches to get used to a different scheme and if it is picked well, people might even instantly understand it (e.g. AvP simply goes bright->dark for aliens).
there is also the possibility of letting people chose among different color schemes in the options.
another suggestion (i think this is already implemented for the spectator mode?): briefly show how much health recently went away. e.g. street fighter: the red stuff going away from the yellow bar whenever hit.
A more transparent version of planet side 2 's alternative / experimental HUD could work I believe.
I don't know about you guys, but personally I think that is obnoxious
You must have missed that part where i said 'a more transparent version'.. use your imagination
Also, odd that people would be so against a transparent overlay when we considered obstructing HUD elements in the past to be totally acceptable...
I find the current alien HP and energy portion of the HUD to be near useless..
it's a very small, same colored circle at the bottom corner of my screen that often requires direct glancing instead of peripheral.
I'd much rather have a medium sized, non obstructing, damn near completely transparent bar. Wish a mod existed for this..
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Indeed 'Ahhh ns1'.
What I would truly love to see is a ability to disable selecting marines without drawing over them. So basicly:
* draw a area over 1 or more marines, still select.
* try to med/ammo/shield a single marine > no selecting the marine ever.
The amount of times I had my poor marines die because I selected them instead of medding, cant even count how much.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
IMO, I would like to see an option to disable selecting marines players, the way point system is cool and all, but because of either use mic or text to order their marines around it gets underused and is also kind of pointless. Clicking on the player doesn't really give me access to thing I can't already tell him to do. Alien commander being a prime example. I don't need to click on the player to see his health and ammo status anyways.
This in turn would allow for less botched med packs from rapidly clicking. Yes you could just make the argument "E+S+Click, Repeat" to get around it, but it's just a usability thing.
If anything I find more value in selecting aliens to see their health status, which behaves extremely finicky right now. If I wanted to see the HP of a retreating onos, I have to spam click him like crazy as the selection never seems to stick for too long because of line of sight breaks.
This in turn would allow for less botched med packs from rapidly clicking. Yes you could just make the argument "E+S+Click, Repeat" to get around it, but it's just a usability thing.
If anything I find more value in selecting aliens to see their health status, which behaves extremely finicky right now. If I wanted to see the HP of a retreating onos, I have to spam click him like crazy as the selection never seems to stick for too long because of line of sight breaks.
Literally everything you described in your post is in NS2+ ...
I love that you guys are already working on a new build. My concern is most of that stuff on that tracker is barely noticeable. The most significant gameplay change I see is getting rid of cafeteria/locker close spawns on docking, which would be welcome but is hardly impactful. The only thing that gets me kind of excited is the "Implement new skill system" which in no way should be one line item (lol) and ideally phased in throughout multiple builds and tweaked as need. It should be obvious, but the community will give you loads of feedback on it. They will show you ways to abuse or break it in ways you won't think of.
I know you all have real jobs and lives, but please don't work on stuff just to work on stuff. If I could accidentally load up b255 right now, I wouldn't notice a difference in what I'm playing from what's live now. It looks like b257 might be the same way. If the goal is too bring people back to the game, I don't see that tracker doing it. Maybe I'm missing the goal of the CDT here. Is it too many playtesters focused too much on very rare bugs? Are there main gameplay goals you want to have accomplished in say 5 builds, 10 builds?
I don't want to see you waste your time, when something like "Add an option for server owners to tag their server: [Casual] or [Competitive]" could have an immediate player experience impact right now while you work on longer term solutions.
Comments
Good ideas, and that one is actually how NS2 already works!
So for example, a gorge without carapace (160 HP and 75 armor) will have a armor bar the size of just below half of the health/armor circle. A skulk with carapace is close to half as well (43%). With an armor point being worth two HP points, this is already a good representation.
I don't know about you guys, but personally I think that is obnoxious
At least it is way better and usable than what we have in NS2.
But yeah, I don't think the interface is the main problem.
If I join a server and fail (server full etc.), I get thrown back to the main menu and not the server browser. Is there a reason behind that? Must it be that way? Would that be easy to change? Just an idea if you have too much time :P
If left permanently on the screen yeah it would be but parts of it only show up when they are relevant as you can see in the vid below. Left would be jetpack, Right ammo, bottom health.
http://www.twitch.tv/current1y/c/3892932?t=30s
IMO I would rather keep what we currently have then implement that exactly but the "centralized hud" idea ps2 uses Is very convenient at times. I would prob use a hud like this for ns2 if it was made more minimalistic.
#problem solved.
You can subscribe to the MOD NS2+ in order to give yourself more options for a clean HUD.
I hear people say this a lot "just subscribe to ns2+" yet not all servers run ns2+, Its not really a solution. An actual solution would be to get many of the HUD options from ns2+ into 267.
Now put that in a skulk mouth. Then hold bite. Get shot too. Eye rape.
In all honestly I can't see why ns2+ isn't being adapted into build 267 in its entirety, Any particular reason @WasabiOne ?
It usually fails consistency on non-ns2+ servers.
Could we just make it so any server NOT running ns2+ crashes constantly?
Is there a breakdown of what ns2+ features will be incorporated, and which aren't? I'd really like to see the changes to atmospherics come into the game. (Instead of on/off, you get a 0.0-1.0 slider, and flashlight atmospherics get a separate slider). Personally, I have a tough time aiming if I don't have the flashlight on (maybe it's just dark rooms w/ shadow skulks? can't say for sure), and I hate knowing I might be blinding my teammates who for whatever reason are playing with atmospherics on.
EDIT: Actually, while we're at it, just get rid of the whole damned flashlight atmospherics, or at least make 0.0 the default value. I can't even think of an up-side here to having that on.
i'm very much in favor of a more striking health display, but i highly recommend experimenting with multiple different color schemes:
this might turn up something which fits even better into the HUD and/or works better with different map textures in the background around the health indicator.
also, it might be easier to read the health from the corner of your eye (e.g. a certain type of green might not work too well on kodiak).
and there is another thing to consider: about 0.5% of females and 8% of males are red-green color blind (if you think about it, that's actually quite a significant number of people).
although the green->yellow->red color scheme is very very popular among games since decades, this issue is already being addressed by (relatively) new games such as League of Legends or Faster than Light by introducing the option to use a different color scheme for health bars, one that does not contain green and red at the same time. i'm not colorblind myself but i still often use these settings as they simply look better (in my opinion at least, maybe because its a refreshing change).
i admit that green->yellow->red is very easy to understand initially (because it's so popular in many games), but i doubt it will longer than 1-2 matches to get used to a different scheme and if it is picked well, people might even instantly understand it (e.g. AvP simply goes bright->dark for aliens).
there is also the possibility of letting people chose among different color schemes in the options.
another suggestion (i think this is already implemented for the spectator mode?): briefly show how much health recently went away. e.g. street fighter: the red stuff going away from the yellow bar whenever hit.
You must have missed that part where i said 'a more transparent version'.. use your imagination
Also, odd that people would be so against a transparent overlay when we considered obstructing HUD elements in the past to be totally acceptable...
I find the current alien HP and energy portion of the HUD to be near useless..
it's a very small, same colored circle at the bottom corner of my screen that often requires direct glancing instead of peripheral.
I'd much rather have a medium sized, non obstructing, damn near completely transparent bar. Wish a mod existed for this..
What I would truly love to see is a ability to disable selecting marines without drawing over them. So basicly:
* draw a area over 1 or more marines, still select.
* try to med/ammo/shield a single marine > no selecting the marine ever.
The amount of times I had my poor marines die because I selected them instead of medding, cant even count how much.
This in turn would allow for less botched med packs from rapidly clicking. Yes you could just make the argument "E+S+Click, Repeat" to get around it, but it's just a usability thing.
If anything I find more value in selecting aliens to see their health status, which behaves extremely finicky right now. If I wanted to see the HP of a retreating onos, I have to spam click him like crazy as the selection never seems to stick for too long because of line of sight breaks.
pretty sure this exists in ns2+
Literally everything you described in your post is in NS2+ ...
imo it was a good idea to hand development to the most capeable community members. please keep up the great work you guys!
Grenade launcher doesnt do damage against webs. which it should, since cluster grenades do damage against them...
Wondered about that a few days ago.
Follow our progress and vote on the most important to you on our Trello board here:
https://trello.com/b/91ApENY6/ns2-cdt-development-tracker
I love that you guys are already working on a new build. My concern is most of that stuff on that tracker is barely noticeable. The most significant gameplay change I see is getting rid of cafeteria/locker close spawns on docking, which would be welcome but is hardly impactful. The only thing that gets me kind of excited is the "Implement new skill system" which in no way should be one line item (lol) and ideally phased in throughout multiple builds and tweaked as need. It should be obvious, but the community will give you loads of feedback on it. They will show you ways to abuse or break it in ways you won't think of.
I know you all have real jobs and lives, but please don't work on stuff just to work on stuff. If I could accidentally load up b255 right now, I wouldn't notice a difference in what I'm playing from what's live now. It looks like b257 might be the same way. If the goal is too bring people back to the game, I don't see that tracker doing it. Maybe I'm missing the goal of the CDT here. Is it too many playtesters focused too much on very rare bugs? Are there main gameplay goals you want to have accomplished in say 5 builds, 10 builds?
I don't want to see you waste your time, when something like "Add an option for server owners to tag their server: [Casual] or [Competitive]" could have an immediate player experience impact right now while you work on longer term solutions.