Pub Stompers

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Comments

  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited May 2014
    Proper tutorials and game info would have gone a huge way into educating players as to the basics and help the problem massively.
    So would a larger playerbase, so high and low skill level players wouldnt be forced to mix in order to have a game.
    Proper tutorials would also greatly raise the skill floor (people coming into the game would at least have SOME idea of how the game is meant to play, rather than charging in blindly for a couple hundred hours before they decide getting better is an insurmountable task.

    Our steam sales etc were kinda the ticket out of the problem (in part at least), but player retention issues totally fucked it. I dont think most players that already came and left will give the game a second chance now unless we pull off something spectacular.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Proper tutorials and game info would have gone a huge way into educating players as to the basics and help the problem massively.
    So would a larger playerbase, so high and low skill level players wouldnt be forced to mix in order to have a game.
    Proper tutorials would also greatly raise the skill floor (people coming into the game would at least have SOME idea of how the game is meant to play, rather than charging in blindly for a couple hundred hours before they decide getting better is an insurmountable task.

    Our steam sales etc were kinda the ticket out of the problem (in part at least), but player retention issues totally fucked it. I dont think most players that already came and left will give the game a second chance now unless we pull off something spectacular.

    But where do we get a tank?
  • KungFuJVKungFuJV Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15167Members
    I don't think I have ever played with the main people debating in this topic. So this post had nothing to do with these huge quote walls. But I will respond to the quote wall that @nachos posted on my post on the last page.

    Exactly what your saying in that post is elitism.. people play the game for fun, and to escape the harsh realities of you know....real world shit.

    To expect them to self criticisize themselves every single second? To expect them to spend every single minute of time spent gaming to find out their problem? To expect them to memorize every mistake, every problem, every map position advantage?

    Please....that very definition is what separates a competitive players view of the game from a casual players. It has nothing to do with intelligence, to suggest that is......guess what...elitism.

    Now I'm not trying to insult you or your buddies( or be condescending). But look what you said in that post from a CASUAL standpoint.. and see how silly that sounds to expect what comes as second nature to you, to be second nature to the ENTIRE community.

    To end my post with a analogy..think of sc2. By your very mindset, EVERY player in sc2 should be playing at the pro level of play simply because hey...top pro players have reached this level of play, so why haven't you.
  • nemonemo Join Date: 2003-01-05 Member: 11908Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2014

    You may want to ensure that your mod doesn't gimp a player for simply just performing well (maybe on a lucky kill streak or perhaps he's finally "getting it"). This is not to be confused with your goal to gimp a clearly consistently well performing "pro" player.

    If I may, I would maybe flip this around and instead of gimping a pro player, just give a handicap to weaker players based on how.. "non pro" or lack of hours or skill that he has.

    The less hours he has the more fortitude/damage (whatever) he will receive giving him more suitability and lethality.

    This has 2 effects, it gives a weaker player more "time" to react to the fast pace nature of the game and the "pro" player would ideally have a slightly harder time dealing with the weaker player. Two weaker players would basically take longer to right each other, but I doubt they would care, again this gives them more time to adapt to one another. A "pro" player, being as good as he is, a slight bump in damage and health for the weaker player shouldn't cripple the "pro" player so much as he cannot compete.

    I had considered buffing rookies instead, as its far less invasive and more people would be willing to agree with it. However I saw two problems with it that made me change my mind.

    1. Anything that applies a buff is an attack vector for being exploited.
    2. Rookies would learn to play against an altered version of the game, this would give them an unrealistic idea of what kind of attacks they could pull off. Also it modifies the learning curve, I worry if the game suddenly got harder for them it would harm player retention. By that I mean they start as rookies and perform poorly, the system would compensate for it, and as they get better it would compensate less and less, from their perspective they wouldn't be getting any better.
    3. Typically the server is already in a reasonable state before an extremely high skill player comes in. Its the addition of that extremely high skilled player that ruins the equilibrium so I should focus my efforts there.

    To other people that say that I should do nothing, or that the other players need to learn better I have this to say.

    The things you say on this forum are not going to stop servers from emptying when a player comes in and stomps the entire server. I don't pay money to run multiple servers to have only one person enjoying themselves out of 18. Thus I need something which acts far more immediately, and I need something that is automatic. All I am trying to do is find something which beats that action being a simple kicking of that pro player.
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Inside the play-ground an absolute and peculiar order reigns.
    Here we come across another, very positive feature of play: it
    creates order, is order. Into an imperfect world and into the con-­
    fusion of life it brings a temporary, a limited perfection. Play
    demands order absolute and supreme. The least deviation from
    it "spoils the game", robs it of its character and makes it worth­
    less. The profound affinity between play and order is perhaps the
    reason why play, as we noted in passing, seems to lie to such a
    large extent in the field of aesthetics. Play has a tendency to be
    beautiful. It may be that this aesthetic factor is identical with the
    impulse to create orderly form, which animates play in all its
    aspects. The words we use to denote the elements of play belong
    for the most part to aesthetics, terms with which we try to describe
    the effects of beauty: tension, poise, balance, contrast, variation,
    solution, resolution, etc. Play casts a spell over us; it is "enchant­-
    ing", "captivating". It is invested with the noblest qualities we
    are capable of perceiving in things: rhythm and harmony AND PUBSTOMPING


    YOLO!!1

    art.yale.edu/file_columns/0000/1474/homo_ludens_johan_huizinga_routledge_1949_.pdf
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    KungFuJV wrote: »
    To expect them to self criticisize themselves every single second? To expect them to spend every single minute of time spent gaming to find out their problem? To expect them to memorize every mistake, every problem, every map position advantage?
    This is the very problem with the players at the moment. If you're not doing this then you're literally playing braindead. We don't get extra time to think about things or have extra information and banks of statistics to help us make decisions, we're at the same advantage as every player in this aspect.
    KungFuJV wrote: »
    To end my post with a analogy..think of sc2. By your very mindset, EVERY player in sc2 should be playing at the pro level of play simply because hey...top pro players have reached this level of play, so why haven't you.
    Apart from APM and muscle memory are akin to reflex and reaction speed which is what differentiates sc2 players (I think, honestly I have no idea about sc2)
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    nachos wrote: »
    KungFuJV wrote: »
    To expect them to self criticisize themselves every single second? To expect them to spend every single minute of time spent gaming to find out their problem? To expect them to memorize every mistake, every problem, every map position advantage?
    This is the very problem with the players at the moment. If you're not doing this then you're literally playing braindead. We don't get extra time to think about things or have extra information and banks of statistics to help us make decisions, we're at the same advantage as every player in this aspect.
    KungFuJV wrote: »
    To end my post with a analogy..think of sc2. By your very mindset, EVERY player in sc2 should be playing at the pro level of play simply because hey...top pro players have reached this level of play, so why haven't you.
    Apart from APM and muscle memory are akin to reflex and reaction speed which is what differentiates sc2 players (I think, honestly I have no idea about sc2)

    now your just being a muppet.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    now your just being a muppet.
    If you're holding W into comp lab vs 5 skulks you are currently thinking that's the best thing to do, or you wouldn't be doing it.
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    That's not what he said and you know it.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    That's not what he said and you know it.
    No but it's what I'm saying happens all the time. There are thought processes behind each decision you make. It's not hard to stop yourself from making the bad decisions and doing the right one. If you consistently do bad decisions, it's effectively being braindead.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    nachos wrote: »
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    That's not what he said and you know it.
    No but it's what I'm saying happens all the time. There are thought processes behind each decision you make. It's not hard to stop yourself from making the bad decisions and doing the right one. If you consistently do bad decisions, it's effectively being braindead.

    You are describing the difference between pub play and comp play. I often play games because I don't want to think. I have enough muscle memory etc etc where I can do well enough with out thinking too. Then there are times when I want to play better so I actively think and analyze, but for the majority of the time I just don't want to. Yes I build bad habits, but I don't care because I am pubbing.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    james888 wrote: »

    You are describing the difference between pub play and comp play. I often play games because I don't want to think. I have enough muscle memory etc etc where I can do well enough with out thinking too. Then there are times when I want to play better so I actively think and analyze, but for the majority of the time I just don't want to. Yes I build bad habits, but I don't care because I am pubbing.

    Well I'm terribly sorry for thinking and killing you all...?
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    nachos wrote: »
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    That's not what he said and you know it.
    No but it's what I'm saying happens all the time. There are thought processes behind each decision you make. It's not hard to stop yourself from making the bad decisions and doing the right one. If you consistently do bad decisions, it's effectively being braindead.

    How does someone know it's a bad decision, you can do the right thing and still get destroyed. If your only experience is a public game your never going to be aware of comp tactics or why a player would move in a certain way through rooms. Why they would stand in a certain place. now your expecting them to do this in quite frankly the short amount of time some players get. That is elitism, I'd suggest reading into the allegory of the cave before judging others.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    nachos wrote: »
    james888 wrote: »

    You are describing the difference between pub play and comp play. I often play games because I don't want to think. I have enough muscle memory etc etc where I can do well enough with out thinking too. Then there are times when I want to play better so I actively think and analyze, but for the majority of the time I just don't want to. Yes I build bad habits, but I don't care because I am pubbing.

    Well I'm terribly sorry for thinking and killing you all...?
    Your funny. You took that wrong. I was describing that there are two different mindsets here, and they are colliding. I have also played comp for a short while before. I know how to improve, and the mindset it takes.

    Comp and pub players think differently, and want different things out of the game.
  • MoFoMoFo Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188047Members
    edited May 2014
    nachos wrote: »
    james888 wrote: »

    You are describing the difference between pub play and comp play. I often play games because I don't want to think. I have enough muscle memory etc etc where I can do well enough with out thinking too. Then there are times when I want to play better so I actively think and analyze, but for the majority of the time I just don't want to. Yes I build bad habits, but I don't care because I am pubbing.

    Well I'm terribly sorry for thinking and killing you all...?

    It's kind of pointless to even try to debate with you or get you to understand... Your whole attitude is "you all just suck, get better" and it's pathetic.

  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    MoFo wrote: »
    ...
    nachos wrote: »
    james888 wrote: »

    You are describing the difference between pub play and comp play. I often play games because I don't want to think. I have enough muscle memory etc etc where I can do well enough with out thinking too. Then there are times when I want to play better so I actively think and analyze, but for the majority of the time I just don't want to. Yes I build bad habits, but I don't care because I am pubbing.

    Well I'm terribly sorry for thinking and killing you all...?

    I honestly don't think I've ever seen anyone with a more elitist attitude. It's kind of pointless to even try to debate with you or get you to understand... Your whole outlook is "you all just suck, get better" and it's pathetic.

    Indeed, I quite wonder if folks like this will be able to work out why there are no populated servers around.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited May 2014
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    How does someone know it's a bad decision, you can do the right thing and still get destroyed. If your only experience is a public game your never going to be aware of comp tactics or why a player would move in a certain way through rooms. Why they would stand in a certain place. now your expecting them to do this in quite frankly the short amount of time some players get. That is elitism, I'd suggest reading into the allegory of the cave before judging others.

    Because they see "pro" players who are stomping them.
    MoFo wrote: »
    nachos wrote: »
    Well I'm terribly sorry for thinking and killing you all...?

    I honestly don't think I've ever seen anyone with a more elitist attitude. It's kind of pointless to even try to debate with you or get you to understand... Your whole attitude is "you all just suck, get better" and it's pathetic.
    It's a game, competitive by nature. If I chose to use everything at my disposal that is available to everyone else (so no 3rd party software), and you choose not to, you die, get frustrated, and abuse me, the least I can do is provide help to change your way of thinking from cry baby to "I can do better!".

    EDIT: Also ad hominem all you like. It's not as if I'm not used to this blame culture propagated and circle jerked throughout this community these days anyway.
  • BishopCBishopC Germany Join Date: 2014-02-18 Member: 194139Members
    Hmm, so you say, we have some kind of darwinistic play system, where the stronger beings are allowed to stomp on those who didn't put hundreds of hours into a game?
    Honestly, that's just bullying, and I want to say "Pick on someone your size!" i.e. play NSL gathers or Clan matches or whatever. When you are on a server with a low skill level, and your KD is astronomical, LEAVE! Why would a Harlem Globetrotter play in the Little League?
    It's a game, competitive by nature.
    No, that's sports. You are messing things up, buddy. No offense. A game is supposed to be fun.
    Mathematically:
    Game = fun
    more players having fun > one player having fun

    If you go into sports, there a weight classes, leagues, levels, really, every good sport has some kind of balancing mechanism to ensure that it is fair, SC2 has those funny silver, gold, diamond leagues. NS2 doesn't have that. So it is up to us, the players, to make fair teams, fair play.

    If you don't know what fair play is and/or don't want to live by its rule, I pity you.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    Havent played in over a month, mostly because of this. With 2000+ hours of NS2 and probable 2x that of NS1 getting stomped never seemed to be a problem.

    However being an admin with an interest in the servers success ensured that "stacking" was not on my mind, quite the opposite. The importance of the community should exceed your own.

    However the "PRO" community has both destroyed this game and disgusted me with their childish mindset of "but mom, I wana play too". The argument that you paid for this game and have every right to have fun with it is an immature shortsighted perspective.

    We all know this game had amazing potential, that UWE did a great job, had decent exposure, and has DIED a rather quick death. Simple reason being people who stomp.

    So yes you have the right to play, but great job with ensuring that you dont get to play for long by ensuring that no one plays at all.

    Match-making would have been nice, but then banning the top 5% of players from 95% of servers would have done the job as well.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited May 2014
    BishopC wrote: »
    Hmm, so you say, we have some kind of darwinistic play system, where the stronger beings are allowed to stomp on those who didn't put hundreds of hours into a game?
    Honestly, that's just bullying, and I want to say "Pick on someone your size!" i.e. play NSL gathers or Clan matches or whatever. When you are on a server with a low skill level, and your KD is astronomical, LEAVE! Why would a Harlem Globetrotter play in the Little League?
    I pick HBZ and YOclan servers to play on.
    They are white, non "rookie-friendly" servers.
    I play on them because they are the highest quality servers I have the option of playing on. (I DO NOT STOMP ROOKIE FRIENDLY SERVERS)
    Being told to leave these servers means you are denying me playing ANY public at all. Denying me aspects of the game I payed for like everyone else. I am apart of this community too.
    I've mentioned time after time the abuse I get despite losing supposed "stacked" games, do you not consider these comments a form of bullying?
    Seriously why you should deny me being able to play the game except the few occasions there is a gather or a pcw available is mind blowingly similar logic to you claiming
    more players having fun > one player having fun
    . These players could take the simple option of going to a server where the skill is more appropriate to them. If that's bullying... jeeze you have some hypersensitivity issues.

    EDIT: With respect to mad_maX because I started writing before his post was published. I don't go around all servers chasing people to "stomp". I play specifically the highest quality public servers available so that my impact is limited to the people who chose those 2 servers. I'm being reasonable in making that compromise to only play on 2 servers, aren't I?? Oh and this is the blame game and toxic ideologies that ruined the community. This ideology is shared in servers where the players aren't pro, but just better than everyone else in the server. It 'aint the pros, it's the skill disparity and the whining that comes with it.

    Wow... game is synonymous to sport. There's a winner and a loser, it's competitive. The game is called NATURAL SELECTION, by which very definition means members of a species competing with each other for survival. What you have posted has merit in so much as that it should be fun, but the psychology of "oh two people same team we lose" despite any self-imposed handicaps or awareness of rookie helping, new commander, or the rest of the mediocre players joining just for the win, is what needs to be addressed in my mind. Everyone's hell-bent on playing the blame game.
    BishopC wrote: »
    If you don't know what fair play is and/or don't want to live by its rule, I pity you.
    You clearly haven't read the comments where we said that the few rounds we do play together, one goes gorge, or GL, or commands so lesser the impact but allow us to still play together...
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    I'll think you'll find Yo has always been "rookie friendly".
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    I'll think you'll find Yo has always been "rookie friendly".
    Doesn't have the tag, the players you find there are often higher skilled than other servers, and when there are rookies, I do still respect that and provide help. I've commanded in the past, given tips in the past, played against teammates in the past. Often even when I play, games are close.

    The other day modest mouse was ecstatic that he beat a team involving you and me both on the field on veil. He claimed the "stacked" team lost. I didn't think it was stacked having looked at the teams, I couldn't anticipate which way it would swing. I play to play, and we had a fantastic game out of it.

  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited May 2014
    @BishopC

    Even public servers that are basically advertised as competitive friendly servers get whiners that join and complain about getting rolled.

    I could reverse the argument and say get the hell off those servers if you don't want to get rolled.

    I played NS public since I was 12 and I don't really see the problem with competitive players playing public unless they are INTENTIONALLY ruining servers for people really trying to learn the game.

    NSL Gathers/Reddit Pugs are only at certain times and can be few and far between depending on the time zone you live in. "Clan matches" or whatever you're referring to? I assume team scrims/matches.. Are something that you need to practice for.. which means playing the game by whatever means is available.. which almost always is public games.
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    @nemo Fair points, if you can mange to make a handicap system that works for both parties, I encourage it. Try things in small doses, i mean values can always be changed, but I think the "detecting" algorithm is probably going to be the keystone there.

    Best of luck and maybe bickering threads like this can come to an end :)
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    edited May 2014
    dePARA wrote: »
    Try following:
    Open http://ns2stats.com/ and look @ the last games tracked there.
    Im sure you will find these "chosen ones" as someone mentioned before on 80% of these rounds.
    I find a round where the OP had 13-1 on a rookie server:
    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/258226
    Is 13-1 pub stomping? Well, looks like.

    Haha yeah check out this guy:
    http://ns2stats.com/player/player/2065

    8 out of 10 of his last rounds were on that same server with K:D of 21:2, 23:4, 34:1
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited May 2014
    Desther wrote: »
    dePARA wrote: »
    Try following:
    Open http://ns2stats.com/ and look @ the last games tracked there.
    Im sure you will find these "chosen ones" as someone mentioned before on 80% of these rounds.
    I find a round where the OP had 13-1 on a rookie server:
    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/258226
    Is 13-1 pub stomping? Well, looks like.

    Haha yeah check out this guy:
    http://ns2stats.com/player/player/2065

    8 out of 10 of his last rounds were on that same server with K:D of 21:2, 23:4, 34:1

    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/256356
    Went gorge to help balance

    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/256352
    Played against a prem div player and several other experienced competitive players.

    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/256347
    Top player on other team was also clearly better than others so there's an argument of attempting to counter balancing each other

    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/256343
    Not even top of the team and equal to top 2 players on opposite team

    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/256092
    Commanded

    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/256084
    Top player on other team was similar.


    Not to mention it's incredibly difficult for you to tell if he was playing WITH a teammate and "stacking", or if the mediocre players were "stacking" to him.
  • AnzestralAnzestral Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185327Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    KungFuJV wrote: »
    I don't think I have ever played with the main people debating in this topic. So this post had nothing to do with these huge quote walls. But I will respond to the quote wall that @nachos posted on my post on the last page.

    Exactly what your saying in that post is elitism.. people play the game for fun, and to escape the harsh realities of you know....real world shit.

    To expect them to self criticisize themselves every single second? To expect them to spend every single minute of time spent gaming to find out their problem? To expect them to memorize every mistake, every problem, every map position advantage?

    Please....that very definition is what separates a competitive players view of the game from a casual players. It has nothing to do with intelligence, to suggest that is......guess what...elitism.

    Now I'm not trying to insult you or your buddies( or be condescending). But look what you said in that post from a CASUAL standpoint.. and see how silly that sounds to expect what comes as second nature to you, to be second nature to the ENTIRE community.

    To end my post with a analogy..think of sc2. By your very mindset, EVERY player in sc2 should be playing at the pro level of play simply because hey...top pro players have reached this level of play, so why haven't you.


    Do you think we are trying to make everyone play on premier division level? That is not at all what we are asking for. We are asking for basic things wich we already described in numerous examples... Btw I completely agree with you that most casual players just want to relax and have some fun. If their understanding of fun in this game is to play brainless and just spray or spam grenades I am fine with that. But since we have been accused of stacking on one of the top skill EU servers let me just emphasise it one last more time: THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO PLAY BRAINDEAD! Please, if you want to have fun that way go on lower skill servers, where all the other guys want to play in the same way, but do not ruin the games on the high skilled servers, where the game is normaly played in another way.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Desther wrote: »
    dePARA wrote: »
    Try following:
    Open http://ns2stats.com/ and look @ the last games tracked there.
    Im sure you will find these "chosen ones" as someone mentioned before on 80% of these rounds.
    I find a round where the OP had 13-1 on a rookie server:
    http://ns2stats.com/round/round/258226
    Is 13-1 pub stomping? Well, looks like.

    Haha yeah check out this guy

    Actually you've given me a really great break and idea.

    No 1. Hive stats
    http://hive.naturalselection2.com/profile/78116737
    Rookie server stomping

    No 2. Hive stats
    http://hive.naturalselection2.com/profile/1844314
    Rookie server stomping

    No 3. Hive stats
    http://hive.naturalselection2.com/profile/21010299
    Rookie server stomping.


    Now are you definitely sure, that we are the issue?
  • AnzestralAnzestral Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185327Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    maD_maX_ wrote: »
    However the "PRO" community has both destroyed this game and disgusted me with their childish mindset of "but mom, I wana play too".

    Do you still live on the same planet?
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    @nachos @Desther‌ @dePARA‌ I realise you're just using arbitrary players as examples for the moment. But, for future reference, I'd prefer it if this didn't turn into a name & shame thread.
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