DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I commanded loads and loads in public months back. No badge, didnt need.
Badge introduced? I hardly bothered. And I feel many are with me, badge isnt worth the hassle.
In public you have:
* your uttermost willing rookie.
- BEST to have if both teams are filled with them. 0 clue, willing to learn. They listen instantly and without question to the comm. They learn, they enjoy. Even if only one side has a experienced comm, such rookie teams stick around as long as comm does round swaps.
* the unwilling rookie.
- only here because it was cheap and hyped. Brainless zerg. Not worth the time to command.
* the so called experienced or pro player.
- does not listen, knows everything better. Not worth the effort to command.
* The real experienced player.
- rare the encounter in pubs. Will at times listen to comm but is usually filling in other jobs also needed because the rest of the team is usually among the command waste categories.
* server communities & server regulars.
- Mixed skill, amongst the 'experienced' and experienced players worth the effort to command.
So our first group becomes more rare as more and more rookies who are genuinely interested already tried.
The last group is on servers filling fast or in closed matches like scrims.
I would be on the side debating commanding in public is NOT worth the effort unless you find either of the most rare groups.
A lot of people that command in pugs/comp won't command in pubs. It's super frustrating to be a commander, know exactly what needs to be done, and have 1 out of 12 on your team actually listen. Especially when you have people demanding hand grenades and exo suits.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
Honestly, if you have the badge it means you've commanded enough in the past to deserve a break from the chair for a game. The people who don't have it are the ones that ought to get their butts in there and learn the other half of the game. Sure, if you're absolutely green this doesn't really apply to you, but I doubt anyone reading this thread is very green at all.
It's honestly a waste. Only helps noob comms get a little badge after sitting in long 3v3 noob fest. I haven't seen any difference in the commanding ability with these new badges. People seem to be terrible or mediocre (the latter being commanders that rely entirely on their field commanders and pro killers). The good commanders don't all have badges.
Anyway, as it stands, I really don't see this badge as productive. All it really shows is someone was in the chair long enough to win or lose some games, no matter the map, the team help, and the server size. Makes people think they are better than they are and don't need advice from some ''bitching noob'' on the field who could have much more experience in the game overall.
But whatever, give them shiney stuff. At least make money from it if it hardly affects the game lol
I was field commanding my position in game like i usually do, and the commander, with a badge, and over 300 hours of play time felt inclined to explain to me that I don't know what I am doing, and that he didn't see my commander badge.
I have commanded more hours than he has played in total. I've personally been avoiding commanding once they patched in that badge, I'm not sure why, but I like not having it, and seeing so many bads who do, get cocky.
I love when commanders, even experienced ones, say "Repair phase is under attack. Everyone go to repair." Oddly enough the entire team goes to repair except for the few people sitting in base. Then the commander proceeds to complain that were are not protecting the RT's while were in repair, because we lost 3 of them.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
I love when commanders, even experienced ones, say "Repair phase is under attack. Everyone go to repair." Oddly enough the entire team goes to repair except for the few people sitting in base. Then the commander proceeds to complain that were are not protecting the RT's while were in repair, because we lost 3 of them.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
In my experience player name on minimap has helped alleviate this a lot as long as the commander takes advantage of it and calls people out by name. It's a tiny bit more mental effort to actually think of your teammates as more than identical grunts, but the UI changes helps in that regard so much that it's pretty sloppy commanding not to do that even in a pub nowadays.
I love when commanders, even experienced ones, say "Repair phase is under attack. Everyone go to repair." Oddly enough the entire team goes to repair except for the few people sitting in base. Then the commander proceeds to complain that were are not protecting the RT's while were in repair, because we lost 3 of them.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
This is when i would normally press my map key "C" watch where all the lemmings move, and move to a place where i am needed, that being said, if none did use the PG, then i would
Its all about using your map!
I love when commanders, even experienced ones, say "Repair phase is under attack. Everyone go to repair." Oddly enough the entire team goes to repair except for the few people sitting in base. Then the commander proceeds to complain that were are not protecting the RT's while were in repair, because we lost 3 of them.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
This is when i would normally press my map key "C" watch where all the lemmings move, and move to a place where i am needed, that being said, if none did use the PG, then i would
Its all about using your map!
The problem is when you're the only one watching the map AND listening to your comm... because you basically try to do everything at once (defend RTs, attack RTs, zoning, comm orders...). I've found myself in this situation recently...
I love when commanders, even experienced ones, say "Repair phase is under attack. Everyone go to repair." Oddly enough the entire team goes to repair except for the few people sitting in base. Then the commander proceeds to complain that were are not protecting the RT's while were in repair, because we lost 3 of them.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
This is when i would normally press my map key "C" watch where all the lemmings move, and move to a place where i am needed, that being said, if none did use the PG, then i would
Its all about using your map!
The problem is when you're the only one watching the map AND listening to your comm... because you basically try to do everything at once (defend RTs, attack RTs, zoning, comm orders...). I've found myself in this situation recently...
I've had to do that after about 2 weeks of it being sold as 'released'. I just give up trying to protect some structures. Too many deaths and no one cleans it up for you. Always have to field command. Some commanders take it offensively... but I actually like an extra pair of eyes when I'm commanding. As long as they aren't completely... wrong.
No one presses c ...
Up all night and hyper, apologies if this is a random tangent. Which, may be redundant.
I love when commanders, even experienced ones, say "Repair phase is under attack. Everyone go to repair." Oddly enough the entire team goes to repair except for the few people sitting in base. Then the commander proceeds to complain that were are not protecting the RT's while were in repair, because we lost 3 of them.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
Yeah this really gets on my nerves and I'll always call out a commander if they're being a twat like this.
As a comm, I will usually call out a disclaimer at round start so everyone is on the same page,
"Hi guys, I'm your comm for this round. If I say "somebody go to XX" - if you dont see somebody doing that and you're relatively nearby, it is YOUR responsiblity to fill in that role"
but yes, player names on minimap are freaking excellent and have made this much less of a problem (well, theoretically speaking at least- a lot of commanders are too used to the old playing style but I'm sure they'll adjust)
I love when commanders, even experienced ones, say "Repair phase is under attack. Everyone go to repair." Oddly enough the entire team goes to repair except for the few people sitting in base. Then the commander proceeds to complain that were are not protecting the RT's while were in repair, because we lost 3 of them.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
In my experience player name on minimap has helped alleviate this a lot as long as the commander takes advantage of it and calls people out by name. It's a tiny bit more mental effort to actually think of your teammates as more than identical grunts, but the UI changes helps in that regard so much that it's pretty sloppy commanding not to do that even in a pub nowadays.
It is just laziness of not wanting to put in that minimal extra effort. I see experienced and even comp players do this. Maybe they just don't want to try all the time and decided to comm.
I love when commanders, even experienced ones, say "Repair phase is under attack. Everyone go to repair." Oddly enough the entire team goes to repair except for the few people sitting in base. Then the commander proceeds to complain that were are not protecting the RT's while were in repair, because we lost 3 of them.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
This is when i would normally press my map key "C" watch where all the lemmings move, and move to a place where i am needed, that being said, if none did use the PG, then i would
Its all about using your map!
There are multiple ways in which one can handle this kind of comm. Call them out. Eject them and comm yourself. Keep playing and try to field comm. Depending on the situation, but I usually will run the opposite of the herd. Comm says "everyone go repair to save the phase gate, I run to mezzanine/elevator to protect the line as best I can.
The key to a good game of NS2 is communication, get a microphone and talk. The regulars I play with all use mic's were always talking and can call on weak spots. Got a sneaky gorge tunnel, team arranged base rushes, no ones at this phase gate etc.
The more eyes and voices on the field makes it very easy to com and you might make some new friends along the way.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I'd like to see Tiered Commander Badges, Bronze, Silver, Gold separated in marine and alien to denote experience commanding. Farmer's won't get that high as the requirements should increase not only by hours, but also Win/Loss Ratio.
Bronze = Replaces the current comm badge
Silver = Modest amount of hours + 50% wins at comm
Gold = x amount of hours + say 80%?
Again these would show the TSF logo and Alien logo respectively. So if you're an exceptional commander, you'd rock a Golden Khara and TSF Logo ?
I'd like to see Tiered Commander Badges, Bronze, Silver, Gold separated in marine and alien to denote experience commanding. Farmer's won't get that high as the requirements should increase not only by hours, but also Win/Loss Ratio.
Bronze = Replaces the current comm badge
Silver = Modest amount of hours + 50% wins at comm
Gold = x amount of hours + say 80%?
Again these would show the TSF logo and Alien logo respectively. So if you're an exceptional commander, you'd rock a Golden Khara and TSF Logo ?
80%, that is pretty ridiculously high. How many players even have an 80% win rate without being a commander.
I'd like to see Tiered Commander Badges, Bronze, Silver, Gold separated in marine and alien to denote experience commanding. Farmer's won't get that high as the requirements should increase not only by hours, but also Win/Loss Ratio.
Please, no winrate. There is no way to make a winrate based system work without making people grinding quick matches, not commanding if they think they will lose, and remove any possible screw around games.
The only thing I would say is that a Commander Badge requires a person to command at least an hour every two weeks to stay active. That is it.
just don't let people out of starting room (pre-game) and make a countdown when enemy team has comm (like in Shine), this will speed up the process.
Remember good old days, when game would start five seconds after both teams have one player? People were racing to comm chair/hive. Because you know, if nobody comms = instant lose. Now people are running around the map and procrastinating during pre-game.
I'd like to see Tiered Commander Badges, Bronze, Silver, Gold separated in marine and alien to denote experience commanding. Farmer's won't get that high as the requirements should increase not only by hours, but also Win/Loss Ratio.
Bronze = Replaces the current comm badge
Silver = Modest amount of hours + 50% wins at comm
Gold = x amount of hours + say 80%?
Again these would show the TSF logo and Alien logo respectively. So if you're an exceptional commander, you'd rock a Golden Khara and TSF Logo ?
Tying badges to something fluid like W:L seems like a very bad idea. Besides, 80% winrate is like top tier grandmaster in a conventional RTS. On top of that it's totally possible to lose games you're commanding due to no fault of your own, so stressing win rate for public play in particular seems pretty silly.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Hence making the gold badge have real value. Listen, the criteria don't matter, the point is making commanding more rewarding and worth doing.
Commanding is stressful sure, but I've seen people who never command get motivated to get better just to get the badge, and I've seen people with the badge who still need to work on some basic stuff.
I'd just like to see a more reliable indicator between the guy who tried for ten hours, the guy who can manage the rigors of commanding and the guy who can inspire new commanders.
After all, ns2 put more emphasis into commanders than ns1 and puts other RTS/FPS hybrid to shame, why not celebrate it?
I'd just like to see a more reliable indicator between the guy who tried for ten hours, the guy who can manage the rigors of commanding and the guy who can inspire new commanders.
Buttttttt, how do you do that? Unless your answer requires no work by any dev, odds are it is not going into the game.
Tying it to winrate would have the opposite effect. Unless I knew I stacked the team with my friends, I would never command because GOLD IS COOL!
Its a good idea, but maybe to high of winrate, bronze could be 10%, silver 30%, gold 50%. but winrate may not be the best way to go,
As of now i think just time spent commanding either side would be enough, Again i really think 10 hours min spent commanding is not enough for a person to gain the much needed game awareness that others that have spent 100+ hours commanding have, now thats only counting newer players.
Comments
Badge introduced? I hardly bothered. And I feel many are with me, badge isnt worth the hassle.
In public you have:
* your uttermost willing rookie.
- BEST to have if both teams are filled with them. 0 clue, willing to learn. They listen instantly and without question to the comm. They learn, they enjoy. Even if only one side has a experienced comm, such rookie teams stick around as long as comm does round swaps.
* the unwilling rookie.
- only here because it was cheap and hyped. Brainless zerg. Not worth the time to command.
* the so called experienced or pro player.
- does not listen, knows everything better. Not worth the effort to command.
* The real experienced player.
- rare the encounter in pubs. Will at times listen to comm but is usually filling in other jobs also needed because the rest of the team is usually among the command waste categories.
* server communities & server regulars.
- Mixed skill, amongst the 'experienced' and experienced players worth the effort to command.
So our first group becomes more rare as more and more rookies who are genuinely interested already tried.
The last group is on servers filling fast or in closed matches like scrims.
I would be on the side debating commanding in public is NOT worth the effort unless you find either of the most rare groups.
Anyway, as it stands, I really don't see this badge as productive. All it really shows is someone was in the chair long enough to win or lose some games, no matter the map, the team help, and the server size. Makes people think they are better than they are and don't need advice from some ''bitching noob'' on the field who could have much more experience in the game overall.
But whatever, give them shiney stuff. At least make money from it if it hardly affects the game lol
I have commanded more hours than he has played in total. I've personally been avoiding commanding once they patched in that badge, I'm not sure why, but I like not having it, and seeing so many bads who do, get cocky.
You can tweak the scenario a bit, but I see this so often.
In my experience player name on minimap has helped alleviate this a lot as long as the commander takes advantage of it and calls people out by name. It's a tiny bit more mental effort to actually think of your teammates as more than identical grunts, but the UI changes helps in that regard so much that it's pretty sloppy commanding not to do that even in a pub nowadays.
That's why marines was so fun, you had to earn your shit, every game
This is when i would normally press my map key "C" watch where all the lemmings move, and move to a place where i am needed, that being said, if none did use the PG, then i would
Its all about using your map!
The problem is when you're the only one watching the map AND listening to your comm... because you basically try to do everything at once (defend RTs, attack RTs, zoning, comm orders...). I've found myself in this situation recently...
I've had to do that after about 2 weeks of it being sold as 'released'. I just give up trying to protect some structures. Too many deaths and no one cleans it up for you. Always have to field command. Some commanders take it offensively... but I actually like an extra pair of eyes when I'm commanding. As long as they aren't completely... wrong.
No one presses c
Up all night and hyper, apologies if this is a random tangent. Which, may be redundant.
Yeah this really gets on my nerves and I'll always call out a commander if they're being a twat like this.
As a comm, I will usually call out a disclaimer at round start so everyone is on the same page,
"Hi guys, I'm your comm for this round. If I say "somebody go to XX" - if you dont see somebody doing that and you're relatively nearby, it is YOUR responsiblity to fill in that role"
but yes, player names on minimap are freaking excellent and have made this much less of a problem (well, theoretically speaking at least- a lot of commanders are too used to the old playing style but I'm sure they'll adjust)
It is just laziness of not wanting to put in that minimal extra effort. I see experienced and even comp players do this. Maybe they just don't want to try all the time and decided to comm. There are multiple ways in which one can handle this kind of comm. Call them out. Eject them and comm yourself. Keep playing and try to field comm. Depending on the situation, but I usually will run the opposite of the herd. Comm says "everyone go repair to save the phase gate, I run to mezzanine/elevator to protect the line as best I can.
The more eyes and voices on the field makes it very easy to com and you might make some new friends along the way.
Just ask Modest Mouse
:x
It's true.
Lies mucky.
Bronze = Replaces the current comm badge
Silver = Modest amount of hours + 50% wins at comm
Gold = x amount of hours + say 80%?
Again these would show the TSF logo and Alien logo respectively. So if you're an exceptional commander, you'd rock a Golden Khara and TSF Logo
80%, that is pretty ridiculously high. How many players even have an 80% win rate without being a commander.
Please, no winrate. There is no way to make a winrate based system work without making people grinding quick matches, not commanding if they think they will lose, and remove any possible screw around games.
The only thing I would say is that a Commander Badge requires a person to command at least an hour every two weeks to stay active. That is it.
just don't let people out of starting room (pre-game) and make a countdown when enemy team has comm (like in Shine), this will speed up the process.
Remember good old days, when game would start five seconds after both teams have one player? People were racing to comm chair/hive. Because you know, if nobody comms = instant lose. Now people are running around the map and procrastinating during pre-game.
Commanding is stressful sure, but I've seen people who never command get motivated to get better just to get the badge, and I've seen people with the badge who still need to work on some basic stuff.
I'd just like to see a more reliable indicator between the guy who tried for ten hours, the guy who can manage the rigors of commanding and the guy who can inspire new commanders.
After all, ns2 put more emphasis into commanders than ns1 and puts other RTS/FPS hybrid to shame, why not celebrate it?
Buttttttt, how do you do that? Unless your answer requires no work by any dev, odds are it is not going into the game.
Tying it to winrate would have the opposite effect. Unless I knew I stacked the team with my friends, I would never command because GOLD IS COOL!
You mean that thing that is known to have a ton of problems?
As of now i think just time spent commanding either side would be enough, Again i really think 10 hours min spent commanding is not enough for a person to gain the much needed game awareness that others that have spent 100+ hours commanding have, now thats only counting newer players.