General Tactics and Build orders
Calego
Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
We all know this game updates too quickly to build and maintain an accurate database of "Current Tactics." But I'm interested in getting back into commanding and want to know how most of you do things in pubs and even in pugs/matches. I'm mostly concerned with when what should be going up.
For aliens, should I have two out of three upgrades before second hive, or should they all be up? When should which lifeform abilities be researching?
For marines It's a decent rule to have Wep1 and Arm1 before shotguns roll out but what then? How do upgrades balance with getting a proto up?
And this is the age old one for pubs: Should I start with an Obs and Phase tech or go for early upgrades?
For aliens, should I have two out of three upgrades before second hive, or should they all be up? When should which lifeform abilities be researching?
For marines It's a decent rule to have Wep1 and Arm1 before shotguns roll out but what then? How do upgrades balance with getting a proto up?
And this is the age old one for pubs: Should I start with an Obs and Phase tech or go for early upgrades?
Comments
1) rush phasegates
2) Spam your mic so people think you know what you're doing.
If you don't you'll get ejected. That's all there is to know.
European servers, 2013: Mostly PGs first, sometimes upgrades
European servers, 2014: Upgrades first
American servers, 2012: Phase gates first
American servers, 2013: Phase gates first
American servers, 2014: Phase gates first
Firepower.
A few times I was questioned why would I start gorge before biomass three, it gives you no benefit (babblers aren't much use), and biomass three on the other hand wold give some HP to whole team. Well, my answer was that gorge takes much much longer to upgrade, that's just enough time for me to save for new hive/biomass three depending on map control. If X ability requires you A and B, I usually start with one that takes longer to research, say, we have 2 biomass on first hive and second hive just have been grown, if I want leap, I'd grow a whip and start skulk upgrade first, only then upgrade biomass on second hive. Even tho biomass would give you some benefit before skulk upgrade, we'll have leap sooner this way. I usually aim for Biomass 4, leap and bile bomb as sooner as possible.
Australian Marines kick ass without support.
Yeah, I like this. I've noticed a trend with some commanders to play the same way that some of the comp team commanders play, delaying PGs while focusing on weapon upgrades and med support. It rarely works though, and often results in an early concede due to losing most of the map in the first 5 minutes. Not everyone can aim like the pros, and unless everyone is packing a welder from the start, sooner or later an Alien rush will take out the marines, regardless of med support.
I rarely command, so I'm not the best person to give advice on this, but from playing the game, I have found the best commanders are the ones that adapt their tactics based on how well the team is doing and how the match is playing out. Saying that, you really can't go wrong with early PGs and Mines.
Personally, I prefer having an Assault Rifle over a Shotgun, so I prefer spending my pres on Mines.
You get map control by winning fights.
You win fights if you have upgrades and med support.
Phase gates give you map PRESENCE.
This does not necessarily mean control.
If you can't aim and need phasegates to get around quickly, you'll just end up not aiming, losing the engagement, and then losing the PG.
If you can't aim, armor gives you more time to make mistakes because it takes more bites, and weapons makes your mistakes less costly because you can hit fewer times to kill an alien.
What's easier for aliens?
A rush 10 seconds from their hive into a phasegate where marines have 0 upgrades and are the easiest to kill at any point in the game.
OR
A rush 30 seconds from their hive to marine base where they will most likely get spotted by the trickling waves of marines and then have to fight against armoured marines.
Also, an alien team who has to rush 2-3 marines holding down a key route/expansion point is overcommitting to killing those marines and NOT res biting!
I'm not advocating PGs first and foremost, I think W1/A1 is a really good early investment. But I would rather have PGs and Mines after that, rather than W2/A2, because losing an early engagement is too costly for Marines in terms of the time it takes to travel back, kill the Aliens and rebuild structures.
I much prefer pushing out from the start, building RTs up, and then defending them (easier to do in the larger rooms) while waiting for tech. Once PGs and Mines are available, then you can push forward from there.
Having Marines continue to push while focusing on upgrades is a high risk/high reward style that only works when you have players capable of pulling it off. It shouldn't be the baseline strategy of commanders to be used in every match.
1) Is this map tram, veil, refinery, or summit? Upgrades first. Now, do I have a lot of good shooters on the team? If yes, fast upgrade W1. Not so much? A1 first, and encourage welder use and the buddy system. Delay armory until its needed. Drop the 2 natural expansion nodes.
2) Is this map mineshaft, biodome, eclipse, or docking? Drop obs and fast upgrade phase tech. Drop armory and research mines, aim to have it finished by the time phase tech is done. Drop the 2 natural expansion nodes. Ask for mines on the first gate that goes up, and to spread them out on the gate.
3) If people are getting slaughtered, work in a second IP as soon as you're able. Tell them to use the buddy system and welders. Assign individual players to each other if needed, try to announce this while they're both dead in the spawn queue or in close proximity to each other.
4) Keep a close eye on the clock in every game you comm. Always try to have shotguns finished by 6 minutes as that's when fades will start to appear. Remind your team to get a few shotguns on the field to anticipate battling the fade before it appears, and to stop saving for exos. If shotguns are starting to get a bit thinned out on the scoreboard, remind them again to stop saving for exos and spend their res again by name if needed, preferably on more shotguns, welders, and mines.
5) Aim to have a proto dropped and JPs researching by 10 minutes if possible. If you're still at A2, W2 that's fine just go for JPs and get W3 later. If your team is doing really well, sometimes you can do W3 before proto. Onos will start appearing on the field by now if the aliens are organized, and you will start losing ground the longer you're without jetpacks. Once JPs are up, encourage everybody to stop saving for exos, and buy a JP if they can. Especially catch people in the spawn queue by name to buy a JP unless they have plans for their res. Remind them you're not getting exos again. Assign dead people in the spawn queue by name to recap nodes, they will be bored waiting and love you for doing it. Keep doing that the whole game.
- I'm usually stingy on the meds in the very early game until I get 3-4 RTs secured. That is unless a group are attacking an important structure or area (taking down an early gorge tunnel). Once steady res is secured, direct people by name to attack RTs and to take someone with them if needed. Medpacks for these people take priority.
Exo's are usually one of the last upgrades, as using catpacks and nanoshield are generally more useful, along with more weapons on the team. If your team is doing well, you can get away with 1-2 people getting an exo and hopefully using it well after the other upgrades are researched and income is steady. Verify there is someone on the team that has enough money for an exo first.
For Marines it looks like this is the formula:
Wep1 Arm1 w/ Arms lab drop if the map is small or the team is skilled.
Phasetech and Mines if the map is large or the team doesn't know what to do.
Wep3 and Jets is the endgame goal. With the proto hopefully up and researching jetpacks by 10 minutes.
Shotties out by around 6 minutes (After w1a1) to deal with fades.
Mix in some Arcs if needed and you can afford them.
I think my main problem is that I believe in my marines too much and spend too much res on supporting them in fights they end up losing.
If you're determined to play a strategy game, go play Starcraft or Age of Empires, and enjoy watching your units do whatever they're told
At start drop robo + armoury, find out which hive it is and direct marines to the opposite side of nano (if it's sub, then take east wing).
Make 2 arcs and run them down to east/west wing, make an obs and sentires (optional) on the arcs. 2 arcs is easily enough to take nano and because it's so early a marine can spot for you. Aliens are unlikely to see it coming until the first arc lands.
From there just carry on as normal.
You still need to take a tech point, but it's a cheap way to get 2 RTs + tunnel and probably 3 hydras.
No Cover. All Man.
'Merica!
As an American I try to do upgrades but it rarely works. I speculate Europeans are just more skilled at games.
This is true. SC2, CS, Quake EU always dominate US players :P
I've noticed that, but I've also noticed American players are far more social/likely to use voice comms during a match. On some EU servers it can be deathly quiet while playing.
European Marines? If both teams were skilled as equally it shouldn't make much difference, right?
Fatality.
Though I imagine that's because only the higher tier .au players bother playing on NA/EU servers.
Here's a track to follow. It's a series of videos for rookies, but it's still relevant.
I go for 3 upgrades before second hive, although an aware gorge or two can combine with early structures very well, leaving ups to wait a little.
I find echoing out res nodes isn't to helpful on pub servers compared to what benefits the pros seem to feel that strat should bring (I've only played pub).
2nd hive comes after bile and gorge ups usually, unless we are winning so much 'strategy' is synonymous with 'trying to spend res fast enough' - Gorge tunnels and structures also make a 2nd hive location defendable without needing the Hive, echo out eggs to that location if people don't get the hint on tunnel use (The players still need to click on the map to force spawning at those eggs, unfortunately) - good drifter use can also eat up res that in prior builds would have gone on a new Hive.
Essentially, with the biomass system (The Many Sings To Us!), that 2nd hive has been pushed back a bit in the general build order, but once that 2nd hive drops, hard choices have to be made between ups and abilities.
Sometimes having a MIC can make you the most hated person on a server.