Point of second com?
orbitalshape
gameland Join Date: 2014-02-03 Member: 193754Members
gameland Join Date: 2014-02-03 Member: 193754Members
Comments
As for a 2nd commander station:
-It can be used to avoid having all your eggs in one basket, why risk a gorge rush when you could otherwise basetrade?
-It can be used to have a different location to beacon all your troops too, maybe rush the next door room?
-It can be used as a way to spread out your troops without phasegates. A person spawning might kill the skulk attacking a res point in the room next to his spawn, but normally wouldnt go into 2 phasegates and then a room to kill a skulk.
-It can be used to get a protolab closer to a hive location. Duel exos might be lol IYR (IMO they are meh), but what about single exos? Jetpacks without a phase?
Hope that gives you some idea of potential uses for a 2nd com.
But on topic, do u lads think that marines need to be able to pick spawn IP, and exos to have welder ?
I mean ninja hive is efective, second com just when u have res to waste?
Right now it's just for dual exos and eating bacon.
That's the only reason ever to drop a second cc unless you're trolling with dual exos for the lols
Let me ask you though, what do you want a second command chair to do exactly anyway?
Some maps (well, Veil mostly) only have 4 tech points. So you wouldn't be able to see lategame marine tech on those maps vs. lategame alien tech.
Another reasoning was that it would be more fun for field players if they had access to (almost) all the tech on 1 CC. Games would often end before the lategame stuff really had a chance to hit the field. And part of the asymmetry of the game was supposed to be that tech points mattered to aliens for tech progression but not so much to marines, who should be more reliant on holding RT territory in general.
Alien can pick spawns, marine can not.
Now before gorge tunels that was ok,but now im not sure.
Alien have 1 com, and 3 hive, and all are usefull. And u say marines have 1 com, and they dont need more CS, care to say why?
Also, you didn't answer my question. You say you want 2nd cc to be useful and that it isn't useful currently. What are you expecting it to do to make it useful?
It is far from pointles, if u get to crosroads as alien u can make gorge tunel before marines.
But if u get to crosroads as marine before aliens u cant hold it before PG. I mean after balte for crosroads is over in beging of game, marines cant spawn there if not all IP im main are busy
I want , to marines can pick spawn ip.
Its a waste of team res, it takes like 10 seconds to run from whatever starting tech point to crossroads. If the marines get wiped out in crossroads a IP there isn't going to save it. Just have 2 in your starting base, group up, and move out. Its not hard.
All seriousness, there are times and places for chair drops. Emergency base rushes, blocking sneaky hive drops late game, and necessary for beaconing to whatever base if beacon needed (permitting nearby obs).
Map control / securing TPs should be more than just denying the other team.. it should be directly tied to upgrades like it is for aliens and like it used to be for marines, before it was changed to "allow for more comebacks" that never really actually occur due to alien end game tech that had to be designed to deal with the natural byproduct of this decision: Turtling.
Which makes the change entirely pointless.
Imagine if aliens kept all 3 hive tech and biomass because their singular original base remained.
It's linear and its poor game design imo. Being linear means It creates an artificial timer that must be beat before X irreversible condition occurs.
For instance, taking subsector back from marines does not mean they are back to A2, W2 and without exos /jp , because that arms lab sits safely in the well guarded base.
These days it is just defended in the novelty laden name of asymmetry.
And don't say that asymmetry is what makes this game, as that would be a short sighted comment.
The mechanics and direct input/gameplay should be asymmetric ... but access to winning conditions should be symmetric to ensure a fair and balanced design.
If you disagree with this, then you do not grasp why RT travel times are important or why they are balanced so finely per team, and obviously do not play pubs enough to loathe the byproduct of turtling games and the bandaid that is concede.
I do not harp on this game being designed for competitive more than pub. I vehemently defend this point, typically. The one change I cannot defend, however, is this.
Its clear that this change around build 250 was suggested by people who do not play pub regularly and do not feel games like these were enjoyable. The suggestion came from someone who never experienced a pub turtle, either, (or just did not care) nor understand the gameplay design importance of equal access to winning conditions.
TLDR; Map control should lead to loss of tech, just as much as it leads to accruing tech, for many important reasons that are mostly derived from "fun" pub gameplay.
@Elodea now let me ask you, why should aliens be the only ones who lose tech when they lose tech points?
Not to snob you off, but kinda tired of the old debate of mirroring marine to alien regarding techpoints. Pretty sure we've discussed these very same points before some time in the past. I'm against it for gameflow reasons.
I agree with OP it would be nice to be able to choose which ip you spawn from through.
And while it's true that it theoretically promotes marine turtling, let's face it: Most marine turtles aren't so successful because of that protolab... You'd have to tie ups to CCs, which they never were in the first place, if you wanted to prevent turtling. Afaik that was tested and didn't work out well.
No one publicly ever requested it to change, either. The suggestion came at some point during BT mod testing when sewlek was taking lots of feedback, and it must have come internally from balance team since it never was mentioned publicly (i would have pounced on it)..
@elodea
If you're tired of the subject why persist asking users about it??
Also.. That answer is wholly inadequate and you know it. I even outlined why in my post. You can also use that answer for anything - it's that much of a cop out.
Why are exos useless compared to onos?
Asymmetry!
Why are harvesters 8 tres instead of 10 like extractors?
Asymmetry!
Why doesn't lerk carapace scale as well as the other classes and with marine ups?
Asymmetry!
It's too often the novelty excuse given when someone doesn't understand the mechanics behind it or have a good reason to give.
Most importantly it does not justify imbalance or poor design, ever.
And gameflow? Please... removing epic back and forth games in pub, creating an artificial timer, and enabling turtling is good gameflow??
You do realize that the chance of comebacks are entirely unaffected by this mechanic, yes? The chances are the exact same regardless, so really the only outcome are the byproducts/ downsides given, all in the name of.... Asymmetry!...
I liked that too, but it also meant that if you didn't have a second chair by the time you saw an onos, the team would concede.
Really? That must have been before my time, then. Do we both talk about a/w ups here?
Because I recall Sewlek mentioning in the balance thread (for BT) that they tried it and didn't work.
So if a 20 second travel time and the cost of an armory cannot be accomplished before an Onos comes onto the field, your team has larger issues at hand.
Especially considering most PG placements are at least near a TP..
I am not sure as I've never tested it, but starting recycle and canceling it should make current marine start spawning at other place.
I'm tired of debating this with you, and for that matter anyone else who partook in forum discussions on this very same topic in the past. What has needed to be said has already been said by both sides. Your point of view doesn't seem to have changed since, and i'm not too inclined to try and convince you otherwise (a futile attempt).
As for the OP, I wanted to encourage him to think through his thoughts more and actually put something out that was concrete. OP did not mention anything about tech points tied to tech. I wanted him to think beyond his initial thoughts of "why isn't this symmetrical, this needs to be symmetrical", which he then proceeded to do btw.
If CC's became more important, will we have to spend longer sitting around building them? I'd rather not. Would they cost more?