F2P

FulgoFulgo Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
edited March 2014 in NS2 General Discussion
Need more players. Sell weapon skins and go f2p.

Edit: Made myself clear a bit more:
Fulgo wrote: »
I'm glad this started some discussion and some very good points have been made here and there. Whether or not going f2p is the right way to go, NS2 could use some more players and income for the developers, and I think most of us can agree with that. Sure there are players who don't care about playing in a small scene and people who just sit in forums writing stuff and really don't play that much at all and for that reason don't really know what is going on, but they are the minority.

Now let's think how UWE could get some more players, keep them and make some profit out of it. Let's start with cosmetics.

Selling harmless cosmetics is a really good way to make money. Look how much Reinforcement Program alone made profit with just few character skins and badges. Cool looking weapon skins that fit on the game's atmosphere (no pink eye blowing skins with ponies here even if someone likes that stuff), new character skins and even custom emblems would definitely be a selling point. Reinforcement Program even left many people craving for more onos badges, so there sure are people ready to pay for these things. Hell, I would even buy the black marine from NS1 and it wouldn't need a whole new character model, animations, voices, just some changes to the face. Cosmetic things also help players feel more devoted to their character and adds the feel of uniqueness, which I don't see as a bad thing at all.

Now we need players that will pay for these things. And by that I mean we need players playing the game, we need numbers. If the game has more players, it also has more potential payers. Now the way of getting these players can, will and has been argued many times before. There has been Steam sales, Humble Bundle sales (1$), updates, tournaments, mods etc. but the problem has always been in retaining the player base. Sure there are many reasons why this game doesn't fit to the masses, mainly the game being complex and hard to get in and the word going around that the game is dead, which it is not as of yet. Now some of you may disagree with me here, but I believe that some of the major reasons is the lack of good matchmaking, feel of progress (all that CS:GO, BF4, COD leveling stuff that us old school players really don't even care about, but many people do) and character customization. Players need to feel somewhat more addicted. I know people who play CS:GO for just the sake of new weapon skins. UWE has done some ground work here already, which is fantastic. But when the work is finished, we still need to attract more new players for matchmaking to properly work and I don't think it can be done when there are only 200-800 players online. Now that steam sales has been used so many times that it doesn't even get attention anymore, Humble Bundle option is used, I don't know how this game could get that final burst of players coming in without using heavy and really expensive marketing OR going f2p. If there is something else that UWE could do to increase the player base and which I can't figure out now, then for the sake of this game do it.

If the game goes f2p, it needs to be ready for it. That means good matchmaking, stable build and all that stuff I mentioned in this post before. It needs to retain the players. F2p is the final option, feels scary in a way and shouldn't be taken lightly, so it needs to be done right once and for all. This was a long post and even longer post to be written by me, but I hope you give it a thought.
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Comments

  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    There's only one classic server left and it's nearly always empty. If the game could still be populated by going f2p I wouldn't mind it at all.

    Though I worry it may get to SMNC levels of inactivity. It went f2p and still didn't survive. http://steamcharts.com/app/104700

    Here's ns2 in comparison: http://steamcharts.com/app/4920
  • RegnarebRegnareb Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62008Members, NS2 Playtester
    I don't have a problem with cosmetics if they don't break the atmosphere/gameplay AND if there is a command to have a vanilla game.

    Having a skin for marine weapons can already be gamebreaking if you have to think of what weapon the marine in front of you is carrying.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2014
    Regnareb wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with cosmetics if they don't break the atmosphere/gameplay AND if there is a command to have a vanilla game.

    Having a skin for marine weapons can already be gamebreaking if you have to think of what weapon the marine in front of you is carrying.

    Isn't this the case with every shooter nowadays? CS:GO and other modern games all have countless skins and multiple guns with the same stats.
  • RegnarebRegnareb Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62008Members, NS2 Playtester
    Regnareb wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with cosmetics if they don't break the atmosphere/gameplay AND if there is a command to have a vanilla game.

    Having a skin for marine weapons can already be gamebreaking if you have to think of what weapon the marine in front of you is carrying.

    Isn't this the case with every shooter nowadays? CS:GO and other modern games all have countless skins and multiple guns with the same stats.
    A lot of FPS are done for console first today, is that a reason to do it even more?
  • NazoNazo Such Is Life in The Zone Join Date: 2010-12-16 Member: 75720Members, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    The NS2Stats signature is what completes the joke for me
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2014
    The time is going to come when F2P makes sense... I would wait until the matchmaking and skill ranking systems work better though. A more complete tutorial would be good too. But if making the game F2P will increase its lifespan and allow us to continue playing for longer, I'm all for it.
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    edited March 2014
    There's only one classic server left and it's nearly always empty. If the game could still be populated by going f2p I wouldn't mind it at all.

    Though I worry it may get to SMNC levels of inactivity. It went f2p and still didn't survive. http://steamcharts.com/app/104700

    Here's ns2 in comparison: http://steamcharts.com/app/4920

    I thought Super Monday Night Combat was F2P from the outset. The earlier paid-only game (Monday Night Combat) was quite a bit different and also never really found an audience.

  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2014
    Regnareb wrote: »
    Regnareb wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with cosmetics if they don't break the atmosphere/gameplay AND if there is a command to have a vanilla game.

    Having a skin for marine weapons can already be gamebreaking if you have to think of what weapon the marine in front of you is carrying.

    Isn't this the case with every shooter nowadays? CS:GO and other modern games all have countless skins and multiple guns with the same stats.
    A lot of FPS are done for console first today, is that a reason to do it even more?

    Keep reaching, you'll find an argument someday.
    Desther wrote: »
    I thought Super Monday Night Combat was F2P from the outset. The earlier paid-only game (Monday Night Combat) was quite a bit different and also never really found an audience.

    Yes, you're probably right. One of my friends was a big fan of that game and what he talked about sounded a bit comparable to this current situation.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    As long as there is some form of barrier for entry, if not a price tag..

    Don't you think this game has enough barriers already? If it's not the community, it's the learning curve, if it's not that then it's game performance and so on.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    edited March 2014
    I'm impartial about this but leaning closer to disagree. At this point UWE isn't gonna sell many more copies of NS2 anyways. Player count is good enough for me but I guess a few more players could be used. However, f2p means we get more low-quality players (which are worse than noobs).

    Also, some players who have already bought the game might get mad because they didn't want to spend money. Also UWE would have to start putting more development into NS2 and that isn't gonna happen.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    There's only one classic server left and it's nearly always empty. If the game could still be populated by going f2p I wouldn't mind it at all.

    Though I worry it may get to SMNC levels of inactivity. It went f2p and still didn't survive. http://steamcharts.com/app/104700

    Here's ns2 in comparison: http://steamcharts.com/app/4920

    Do you happen to know the timezone those stats are given in? From the loops I see, peak players are around 7pm-8pm, which if they are relevant to my time zone, means Eurozone players seem to be the peak, although if they relate to Steam Time zone, then the majority of the NS2 players are in Seattle :0
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2014
    F2P, silly hats for aliens. I want me a Linux red hat on my gorge ;-)
    ltfNcWd.jpg

    EDIT: added shameless picture and double post from Gorge Plushies thread.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    [
    Don't you think this game has enough barriers already? If it's not the community, it's the learning curve, if it's not that then it's game performance and so on.
    You should not underestimate what you get with F2P in regards to the quality of the players.
    Providing an entry barrier that keeps those who can't be asked to learn how to play from jumping into a game, would only slightly assist in filtering out the worst kind of player from those masses.

    Your concerns of the learning curve being a pre existing entry barrier would be alleviated with my suggestion.
    I do not believe that the other two factors you listed count, considering a F2P community is generally an "anything goes" community that is well known by now (see my previous fears and LoL) and game performance.. well.. welcome to PC gaming?

    I don't know about you, but If i have to choose between playing

    1) with a lesser player count of mature, teamwork oriented, quality players.. and
    2) having a high player count from the flooding, bumbling raging masses that plague and accompany all F2P games

    ..... I definitely choose #1
    You can keep your F2P degree of player..

    An entry barrier creates a better game through better participants, imo.
    The one we have now is lacking.. so if it is removed, lets at least replace it with something that improves the player further and gets them to understand and enjoy the game - creating more player retention than before, and better game for everyone participating.

    comics-penny-arcade-games-league-of-legends-583494.jpeg
    i-Nd34phz-1050x10000.jpg
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    [
    Don't you think this game has enough barriers already? If it's not the community, it's the learning curve, if it's not that then it's game performance and so on.
    You should not underestimate what you get with F2P in regards to the quality of the players.
    Providing an entry barrier that keeps those who can't be asked to learn how to play from jumping into a game, would only slightly assist in filtering out the worst kind of player from those masses.

    Argh, I spent 30 minutes on my reply to you and since I opened the reply in another tab and hit preview, the contents are gone forever.
    Key points of the original message.

    1. Toxic players are everywhere, in every community regardless of price restrictions. (Especially in competitive scenes.)
    2. Most players don't want to go through a lengthy mandatory tutorial, if you forced it on the existing playerbase I'm sure there would be complaints.
    3. Entry barrier's don't make better players, they make it harder for more players to be interested.
    4. The game performs terribly at times and the load times are abysmal. You can look at the initial specs again for a good laugh.

    Regarding your interestingly worded choice, I'd go for the choice that actually populates the official servers.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited March 2014
    1) So that makes it ok to foster and invite more of it?? What?
    2) Good.. that solves the issue of having waves of people who cant be asked to learn how to play at a basic level. Are you honestly advocating against the #1 suggestion to address player retention for rookies?
    3) I disagree. The pricetag can sure be an incentive and create interest in a game for me and most people i know. Steam sales also say hi.
    4) I would obviously agree that the specs listed in the store page are laugh worthy.. they always have been and no ones agreed with them. But hardware required to play isn't an entry barrier that any other game doesn't already share - so i have a hard time considering it. If it were to be considered, i'd still say "good.. it keeps the candy crush netbook users out" .. but i realize that's just me.

    I guess we're going to have to disagree in regards to the quality of players and the community we each desire.
    I would not trade the NS2 community - despite any of its issues - for League of Legends' player base, just to fill largely unadmined servers. Never.
  • AnzestralAnzestral Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185327Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    Sell black armor...
    Wait no, don't wanna step on the feet of all the preorderers...
    How about a super mega dark gray armor?

    :-P
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    The day NS2 goes free to play is the day the current community bails.
  • RegnarebRegnareb Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62008Members, NS2 Playtester
    edited March 2014
    Regnareb wrote: »
    Regnareb wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with cosmetics if they don't break the atmosphere/gameplay AND if there is a command to have a vanilla game.

    Having a skin for marine weapons can already be gamebreaking if you have to think of what weapon the marine in front of you is carrying.

    Isn't this the case with every shooter nowadays? CS:GO and other modern games all have countless skins and multiple guns with the same stats.
    A lot of FPS are done for console first today, is that a reason to do it even more?

    Keep reaching, you'll find an argument someday.
    Already did. There is plenty of books and article talking about it. It is a basic rule of video game, movies, etc.. Unless you don't care about readability (it can be viable in some games).




    IronHorse wrote: »
    [
    Don't you think this game has enough barriers already? If it's not the community, it's the learning curve, if it's not that then it's game performance and so on.
    You should not underestimate what you get with F2P in regards to the quality of the players.
    Providing an entry barrier that keeps those who can't be asked to learn how to play from jumping into a game, would only slightly assist in filtering out the worst kind of player from those masses.
    1. Toxic players are everywhere, in every community regardless of price restrictions. (Especially in competitive scenes.)

  • wulfwulf Join Date: 2008-08-03 Member: 64749Members
    As long as gameplay and the NS aesthetic isn't altered I'm fine throwing things like badges and shadow skulk skins in.

    But f2p? lol
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    I'm not sure NS2 has the right tone for lots of silly F2P cosmetics. Most successful F2P games have a great deal of brevity so that they can get away with all the silly hats and mustaches.
  • ScatterScatter Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
    Might be something that could work in combat standalone
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    ^ FTP Combat standalone with weapons and skins for sale... then for a few bucks they can come play NS2 if they like the AvM style... this way game isnt ruined by badies..
  • alf90alf90 Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 170766Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold
    I couldn't care less if the game went F2P.

    But the way some people make it sound is idiotic, they assume F2P equals a toxic influx of players, which is merely assumption based on opinion. And NS2 is hardly a massive game, so even if it went f2P we would unlikely have a massive influx of new players anyway.

    I think some people have a naive rose tainted view of this games players, there is already quite a few toxic players out there relative to the small size of the player base.

    From my own experience of F2P, i have never found it all that different to payed games, the majority of players are nice enough if not anonymous in the since they play the game but don't get involved in the community aspect, and of course there is the toxic player who is there to troll or just be a d~~k. fortunately the toxic player is the minority regardless of F2P or payed (even if they are sometimes the vocal minority).

    How many people whine about the player base of CoD, its one of the most expensive game out there, even during sales, yet it still perceived as having a awful playerbase.
    I'm not saying its a perfect comparison by any means, all i'm saying is its not as simple as F2P = bad players.

    The key to having decent games is to play on decent servers, un-admined/bad servers risk having toxic players play, regardless of whether the games F2P or payed.
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    NS2 was designed to be fully modded so why would they build a standalone of anything? Wasn't this the point of the game jam session with the beat'em'up and the last stand mods showing what was possible?
  • OwNzOr1990OwNzOr1990 Join Date: 2013-08-29 Member: 187203Members, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow
    make it free, it'll double or triple the player base easily. A larger playerbase is what this game needs. UWE can make a nice income from selling vanity items indeed, i'd buy the cool ones for sure ^^.

    Too many people are complaining that it'll turn ns2 into a noob infested game... truth is there isn't any single pub server out there without 70% noob players on it.
  • T3URAST4J4T3URAST4J4 Castles in the sky Join Date: 2014-03-07 Member: 194573Members
    edited March 2014
    Im not sure if F2P wud increase activity of this game, but surely it wud give at least opportunity to people who wants give it to try but doesnt wanna pay for it (or has missed sale days). Like always on sales there are alot rookies on servers, but after week they are gone again, so I dont agree that F2P wud make every day like sale day. It wud make new players just coming in game smoother, not in big rush like at sales day. Problem at those sales days are exactly the high amount of rookies... Every server is full of them and even commanders are rookies. New players cant get a simply idea how to play when Marine base is full of robotics and 5-7 armslabs, so they lose intrest for game (same as alien except there is 4-8 shades and 5 drifters). F2P might be possibility to have stable income of new players which eaze the stability at servers having "total newbies" and "advanced rookies". And how F2P games survive and can still have active development team? CS:GO aint F2P but greedy bastards behind it still want more cashflow => weapon skins, boxes, keys. I also have played Team Fortress 2 which is nice F2P game with alot of stuff u can buy/found/swap with eachothers, that propably wudnt fit in NS2 scene, but weapon skins cud be it like those shoulder marks which already has been done. There are some servers which use NS2 Hive gamehours to detect how long player have played. Maybe there shud be system which helps players to get just servers where they might fit in. Like unlocking higher playhours servers. 10 hours of this game wont make much, you need more like 100 hours to get basics and atleast 100 hours more to get alien basics. But what do I know? ;D Pz HabizZ + sry for bad english xD
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