@maD_maX_ I don't mean the actual addition of the prop, more the legwork in deciding which spots needs it and getting it done on each map as opposed to a blanket solution which based on what @IronHorse said is what happened.
After thinking about it a little more and playing Gorge the past two days, I have to change my stance and admit that some tunnel places are a little OP so early in the game.
They still shouldn't nerf where they can be placed though.
I think they should put the Gorge back to where it was before reinforced. With Gorge tunnels needing research by the commander, and Babblers being available at the start. Plus move webs so they come up sooner (biomass 4 maybe).. I've only been able to use them once lol.
Locking down gorge tunels usage is the most pathetic solution anyone could think of. Innovative gorge tunnel placement is the key strategy of aliens to win (i'm talking this as a rather experienced gorgie). With locking down ability to where you can place them (and even right now there are wtf places where tunnel gets red even though you should be F able to place it) pretty much ruins the game as it wil be so predictable it makes them pointless then.
If they will lock down gorge tunnel usage, then they also have to restrict the creation of blockades with marine buildings which can totally block off narrow hallways and power nodes from attacks of lets say onos. Marines just pop in an armory in a hallway and onos can go F himself. How fair is that? And then people rage over gorge tunnels.
Or when marines get jetpacks on open maps, it's pretty much like enabling god mode for them. No one seems to be bothered by that either. But gorge tunnels are the problem. Seriously!? Are you all mad!? If you ask me i'd even give Gorge tunnels ability to be sticked to the walls and ceilings. Even if that means it's an one way passage for certain aliens.
And i would also give marines ability to place phase gates and turrets on top of objects like the Cafeteria tables, containers, boxes and other tall objects with flat top surface. That would give marines unique ways to make defens elines just like aliens could create attack points with wall/ceiling mountable gorge tunnels.
It's all about innovative out of the box thinking. And i've seen quite a lot of it up till now. If you're planning to lock down the way you can use Gorge tunnels, we may just as well go and play a freakin chess with fixed square fields...
Locking down gorge tunels usage is the most pathetic solution anyone could think of. Innovative gorge tunnel placement is the key strategy of aliens to win (i'm talking this as a rather experienced gorgie). With locking down ability to where you can place them (and even right now there are wtf places where tunnel gets red even though you should be F able to place it) pretty much ruins the game as it wil be so predictable it makes them pointless then.
If they will lock down gorge tunnel usage, then they also have to restrict the creation of blockades with marine buildings which can totally block off narrow hallways and power nodes from attacks of lets say onos. Marines just pop in an armory in a hallway and onos can go F himself. How fair is that? And then people rage over gorge tunnels.
Or when marines get jetpacks on open maps, it's pretty much like enabling god mode for them. No one seems to be bothered by that either. But gorge tunnels are the problem. Seriously!? Are you all mad!? If you ask me i'd even give Gorge tunnels ability to be sticked to the walls and ceilings. Even if that means it's an one way passage for certain aliens.
And i would also give marines ability to place phase gates and turrets on top of objects like the Cafeteria tables, containers, boxes and other tall objects with flat top surface. That would give marines unique ways to make defens elines just like aliens could create attack points with wall/ceiling mountable gorge tunnels.
It's all about innovative out of the box thinking. And i've seen quite a lot of it up till now. If you're planning to lock down the way you can use Gorge tunnels, we may just as well go and play a freakin chess with fixed square fields...
The first tunnel placement may be innovative, all the following repeats are just boring copy-cat exploits. In many maps, these tunnels are game-breakingly effective and practically undestroyable until 15 minutes into the game. The fact that you argue that fixing this exploit would "ruin the game" and compare a post-tunnel-nerf NS2 to chess is baffling
Are there other imbalanced things? Sure. Personally, I think JP and marine jump need tweaking. The correct call however is to fix balance issues, not trade alien and marine balance issues on a this-for-that basis ie. "you get to keep your OP gorge tunnels if we get to keep our OP JPs".
to be fair it takes about 2-3 minutes to get it up into a sneaky place and back to base.
On refinery I can get to conduit, gestate to gorge, and fully build a GT in 30 seconds - from any starting hive.
On docking I can get to landing pad, gestate to gorge, and fully build a GT in 40 seconds - from any starting hive.
I stopped testing any further than that because i realized its the same for just about any map..
And the time it takes to get back to the hive as a gorge, at most was 30 seconds, meaning i can get an exploiting tunnel in most maps up and operational in 1 minute..
This is not a L2P issue.
yep, it needs to go along with strafe jump.
However how should it be taken out of the game ? Should GT be researchable again so that they only appear later in the game ? I have a feeling that GT wont be used anymore again though
Or, should it fall to the mappers to make changes so that GT cant be placed in those exploitable locations ?
With changes already on the way, and how using unreachable places is not allowed in comp games i find GT just a perfect feature for the alien team to have that enforces creative thinking and does as bit of a fun factor as well so all the merrier.
I'm more bedazzled how a map like refinery ever was accepted in to this game, most of the other maps have a limited amount of the 'natural mechanics' that just didnt work in ns1, excessive water, voids, ladders. And i've been glad about it, then i see refinery and all that useless lava. That kind of mapping should be in a singleplayer game, not in something like ns2. If you're going to make maps that have lava pooring from the top then atleast dont make main or alternative pathways so damn close a potential instant death, that's just going add a whole lot of frustration in intense combat situations.
Also, all you peeps with bringing random public variations. If you're going to bring out a sobstory how a GT ruined your day, at least make an effort in trying to disguise a reasonable solution to it, It really makes for uninteresting reading to read a random occurance like "There was this GT up top, but i was like so pro that i went to their hive and killed everyone instead".
Anyway might have gotten sidetracked a bit, feel free to continue the bashing of each other now! glhf
^bash everyone in the thread posting pictures, passive aggressive ending about nothing in the thread being constructive, another valuable constellation member for sure. Did ya see it? I did it too hyuk hyuk.
All these "out of the box innovation" kind of posts read like wank, nearly all of these tunnels are in areas of the map marines can't respond to within the first 15-20 minutes of your average public server. There's nothing innovative about that at all, specifically in refinery and that horrible as fuck containment marine start. I'd much rather have these spots removed and people innovate some fucking team work for once in pubs and have gorges co-ordinate with the team pre-round or during round about where they'll set up a gorge fort and pressuring/backing up pushes instead of having 2-3 gorges camping random vents.
Maps like biodome and veil need "innovative" gorge tunnel locations far more than refinery ever will.
Thanks a lot guys, now the Gorge Tunnel placementbox is as large as my p**** (that means its huge). Ridiculous.
Recently tried to get one into Shuttle Bay? Impossible if not directly at the entrance stairs to Launch Control.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Its now restricted to nav mesh, so only where macs and drifters can go.
The command to see this mesh is nav_debug in the console. If you find poor spots in a map please take a screen shot with that command and post it in tech support forums.
Comments
you can shoot it after climbing for 5 seconds and knife it after climing for 15 sec
@Golden we have work to do.
P.S. Unless you are under the assumption there is a hive in the room already. Then nvm, I know how.
They still shouldn't nerf where they can be placed though.
I think they should put the Gorge back to where it was before reinforced. With Gorge tunnels needing research by the commander, and Babblers being available at the start. Plus move webs so they come up sooner (biomass 4 maybe).. I've only been able to use them once lol.
If they will lock down gorge tunnel usage, then they also have to restrict the creation of blockades with marine buildings which can totally block off narrow hallways and power nodes from attacks of lets say onos. Marines just pop in an armory in a hallway and onos can go F himself. How fair is that? And then people rage over gorge tunnels.
Or when marines get jetpacks on open maps, it's pretty much like enabling god mode for them. No one seems to be bothered by that either. But gorge tunnels are the problem. Seriously!? Are you all mad!? If you ask me i'd even give Gorge tunnels ability to be sticked to the walls and ceilings. Even if that means it's an one way passage for certain aliens.
And i would also give marines ability to place phase gates and turrets on top of objects like the Cafeteria tables, containers, boxes and other tall objects with flat top surface. That would give marines unique ways to make defens elines just like aliens could create attack points with wall/ceiling mountable gorge tunnels.
It's all about innovative out of the box thinking. And i've seen quite a lot of it up till now. If you're planning to lock down the way you can use Gorge tunnels, we may just as well go and play a freakin chess with fixed square fields...
The first tunnel placement may be innovative, all the following repeats are just boring copy-cat exploits. In many maps, these tunnels are game-breakingly effective and practically undestroyable until 15 minutes into the game. The fact that you argue that fixing this exploit would "ruin the game" and compare a post-tunnel-nerf NS2 to chess is baffling
Are there other imbalanced things? Sure. Personally, I think JP and marine jump need tweaking. The correct call however is to fix balance issues, not trade alien and marine balance issues on a this-for-that basis ie. "you get to keep your OP gorge tunnels if we get to keep our OP JPs".
yep, it needs to go along with strafe jump.
However how should it be taken out of the game ? Should GT be researchable again so that they only appear later in the game ? I have a feeling that GT wont be used anymore again though
Or, should it fall to the mappers to make changes so that GT cant be placed in those exploitable locations ?
I'm more bedazzled how a map like refinery ever was accepted in to this game, most of the other maps have a limited amount of the 'natural mechanics' that just didnt work in ns1, excessive water, voids, ladders. And i've been glad about it, then i see refinery and all that useless lava. That kind of mapping should be in a singleplayer game, not in something like ns2. If you're going to make maps that have lava pooring from the top then atleast dont make main or alternative pathways so damn close a potential instant death, that's just going add a whole lot of frustration in intense combat situations.
Also, all you peeps with bringing random public variations. If you're going to bring out a sobstory how a GT ruined your day, at least make an effort in trying to disguise a reasonable solution to it, It really makes for uninteresting reading to read a random occurance like "There was this GT up top, but i was like so pro that i went to their hive and killed everyone instead".
Anyway might have gotten sidetracked a bit, feel free to continue the bashing of each other now! glhf
All these "out of the box innovation" kind of posts read like wank, nearly all of these tunnels are in areas of the map marines can't respond to within the first 15-20 minutes of your average public server. There's nothing innovative about that at all, specifically in refinery and that horrible as fuck containment marine start. I'd much rather have these spots removed and people innovate some fucking team work for once in pubs and have gorges co-ordinate with the team pre-round or during round about where they'll set up a gorge fort and pressuring/backing up pushes instead of having 2-3 gorges camping random vents.
Maps like biodome and veil need "innovative" gorge tunnel locations far more than refinery ever will.
Recently tried to get one into Shuttle Bay? Impossible if not directly at the entrance stairs to Launch Control.
The placement box has not changed...
The command to see this mesh is nav_debug in the console. If you find poor spots in a map please take a screen shot with that command and post it in tech support forums.