32-Bit Crashes - What's going on!? - Natural Selection 2

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  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 772 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    @Squeal_Like_A_Pig
    Was your face painted 50% blue when u wrote that september13 post? Epic speech lol. "WE MIGHT NOT BE BLIZZARD! BUT.. RRAAWRRR!"

    Edit: not a real quote, i know.

    Edit2: Name Dropper badge! fuckyeh!
    grrrr im beast
  • onimusha111onimusha111 Join Date: 2012-10-22 Member: 163070Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 3

    Hi all,

    Not sure where to post this but It is a momory error.
    Windows 7 64bit 16GB RAM. SSD

    ERROR MESSAGE after CRASH
    "NS2 failed to allocate 25772600 bytes and will not terminate"

    Please help. Happen say every 1-2 hours of play
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    Now THAT'S interesting...
    76561197996992409.png
    DC_Darkling
  • creamcream Join Date: 2011-05-14 Member: 98671Members Posts: 73
    i like how this thread degenerated into the user's fault for not having a 64bit os.

    meanwhile we have people claiming UWE is "TEH BEST DEVELOPER PERIOD!!1!" in other threads.

    you people never fail to disappoint.
    NO EDITS.
  • majorpainmajorpain Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187515Members Posts: 64
    ^^
    I was finding it amusing too, more so with some 64 bit systems having the same out of memory errors as 32 bit.
  • darkhunt333darkhunt333 Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165414Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 75 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    Can we get a simple Y/N on 64 bit please?
    majorpain wrote: »
    ^^
    I was finding it amusing too, more so with some 64 bit systems having the same out of memory errors as 32 bit.

    You just fail to read the thread. You read the first 2 posts and skipped to typing a message? THE GAME IS 32 BIT IT DOESN'T GIVE A F*CK WHAT BIT SYSTEM YOU HAVE. Whatever hugh said on the second post just shows how disconnected with reality some of the devs are.
    Post edited by darkhunt333 on
    http://i.imgur.com/OqptiXX.png
    ^ signature images must not exceed 400x75 and 40Kb in size, scale down that monster sig a bit if you please -Kouji San
                                   Move forward with 64 bit already!                                                    Not. One. Step. Back!
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    Yes this is occurring for 64 bit users as well.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • KamamuraKamamura Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 669 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    I had a crash on a 64bit system yesterday too. Granted, it's rare, but it happened. Sent those reports, but even on 64bit, the game is not crash-proof.
    Each day, hundreds of enthusiastic new players rush to join the ranks of the TSF to protect the universe, our beloved and the values of our society from the alien menace.

    Glory to the TSF! Glory to Arstotzka ! Glory to the mods!
  • majorpainmajorpain Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187515Members Posts: 64
    edited September 2013
    @darkhunt333
    Can we get a simple Y/N on 64 bit please?
    majorpain wrote: »
    ^^
    I was finding it amusing too, more so with some 64 bit systems having the same out of memory errors as 32 bit.

    You just fail to read the thread. You read the first 2 posts and skipped to typing a message? THE GAME IS 32 BIT IT DOESN'T GIVE A F*CK WHAT BIT SYSTEM YOU HAVE. Whatever hugh said on the second post just shows how disconnected with reality some of the devs are.

    http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/132111/ns2-failed-to-allocate-bytes-and-will-now-terminate#latest
    ^^
    Have a read of this thread before your next brain fart concerning me and you will see that i have been having this issue for weeks and i am not posting random comments without having some experience of it myself.
    What i was refering to with my comment was the fact that some are still under the illusion that these crashes and poor performance that a lot of players are experiencing is a result of 32 bit users and 64 bit users are immune, which is simpley untrue.
    Yes its been going on too long and yes i am a little p*ssed.
    Post edited by majorpain on
  • Ninja_IguanaNinja_Iguana Join Date: 2013-06-30 Member: 185814Members Posts: 7
    In their explanation as to why this was happening, I find it odd to blame it on the new player skins. How do skins cause the game to consume 7 times more memory than before the update?

    Before the update I recall seeing the game consuming about 500 MB of memory. I have 16 GB of ram on Windows 8 Pro 64-bit. Now it's consuming in excess of 3 GB at the time of crash (as reported by task manager).
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    @ninja_iguana
    Because originally it was just the 3 different male models : Black, Normal, Deluxe.
    With the model and animations running just over 100 MB each.
    Now these new models have been introduced: Assault, Elite Assault, and soon female Assault and elite assault, shadow skulk, female normal, female deluxe, female black ... that's 8 more models. 0.0

    The female marine obviously does not use the same animations as the male model, either.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • majorpainmajorpain Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187515Members Posts: 64
    Are UWE considering adding an option to just display the default skins/models as the devs of the Unreal game introduced, seems like this would put these new crashes to bed, as has been suggested on these forums ?
    soccerguy243
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    @majorpain
    Actually it was quake 3 who did that first iirc.
    And yeah I've suggested it to the devs and so have others. It would slightly dampen the reward though with certain users no longer able to see what goods you paid for.. So it should be considered as a last resort.

    Rest assured though, the Devs are working on fixing this issue as I type this. I am betting Max will be able to sort this out with ease ;-)
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • DarkLaunch357DarkLaunch357 Campinas, Brazil Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187599Members Posts: 77 Fully active user
    edited September 2013
    Maxunit wrote: »
    I still do not understand, why 32-bit is so widespread in 2013. A lot of people run around with Dual or Quad Core CPUs, at least 4 GB of memory, or even more. *hint*8GB in my rig*hint*

    If I look back, then only a handful of games either have both x86 and x64 binaries or only x64.

    Sure, 64bit is more like "Oh my goodness, I can allocate more than 4 GB", but think about that. Games get more and more...graphical. Such data needs more memory to be placed in.

    If I look back at Hellgate: London for example...it ships with x86 and x64 binaries (depends on what version you install). DX10 was included, too.

    My Fallout 3/New Vegas installations were always modded to hell, so that I needed at least 4 GB of memory just for the game. Same applies to Skyrim.

    32Bit is, in my opinion, restricting development for both Games and Applications, because you are limited to 4 GB of Memory instead of 512 GB.

    Yes, 512 GB sounds ridiculous, but still...that's the amount of memory, which Windows 8 Ultimate can allocate. Windows 7 Ultimate can allocate up to 192 GB.

    I am not familiar with the entire technical mumbojumbo now and do not know, if a 64bit EXE for Natural Selection 2 would be a curse or would do something good...but I hope you know what I mean.

    I do agree with you, but my inner geek must object with you in a few things. Windows 8 Ultimate doesn't exist... ;) and those memory limits are actually purely artificial as well. There exists a 512 GB limit for Windows 8 Pro and Windows 8 Enterprise, and a 128 GB for Windows 8 Core and Windows 8 Single Language. The x64 architecture can address up to 16 exabytes of memory :)
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    In their explanation as to why this was happening, I find it odd to blame it on the new player skins. How do skins cause the game to consume 7 times more memory than before the update?

    Before the update I recall seeing the game consuming about 500 MB of memory. I have 16 GB of ram on Windows 8 Pro 64-bit. Now it's consuming in excess of 3 GB at the time of crash (as reported by task manager).
    Animations take up a lot of the memory footprint of new models. With Reinforced, before we even put in the new donation reward skins, we had added the female marine with her own entire animation set, which is quite extensive. We also added 3 different grenade types, with their own set of first person and 3rd person animations.

    We have discussed adding an option to disable the new skins, but it isn't very realistic, because we'd also have to remove grenades as well as female marines. We would also have to devote programming time to adding that option in, testing time to insure it is working properly, so we've decided it is much better to devote the time and energy into fixing the problem the right way, which is what we are doing. It might mean a few extra days of living with the crashes, but it won't be much longer now.

    I like the attitude of not doing a band-aid fix.
    76561197996992409.png
    majorpainshonan
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 616 Fully active user
    _Necro_ wrote: »
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    Been unable to play since the "update" the game simply wont work without a fatal crash. This is effecting both me and my sons accounts, how close are you guys to a fix and what compensation will we receive?

    Have you deactivated all mods? Did you send the crash report to UWE?


    Yes and yeah off both machines Ive run it on. Shame because with over 1200hrs of game play its daft that since the update Ive been unable to get past the loading screen.


    [Cult]MartyMcFly - Yo!Clan Regular - Player of Real-Lifeâ„¢
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")
  • hyckshycks Join Date: 2013-08-14 Member: 186848Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 56
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Yes this is occurring for 64 bit users as well.

    medium.png
  • MeyfarthMeyfarth Join Date: 2007-11-13 Member: 62901Members Posts: 4
    I've got crash issues as well. I noticed that every time I ALT-TAB when joining a server (during loading map & precaching), the next changemap or main menu return, the game crashes.
    It doesn't happen when I do not ALT-TAB. I only ALT-TABed on the 1st loading (which is sooooo long), so I can't tell if it happens everytime.
    Running NS2 on Windows7 64-bits, Full screen with DXD9.
    The problem wasn't here before the Reinforced update.
  • NovisNovis Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19193Members Posts: 98
    In their explanation as to why this was happening, I find it odd to blame it on the new player skins. How do skins cause the game to consume 7 times more memory than before the update?

    Before the update I recall seeing the game consuming about 500 MB of memory. I have 16 GB of ram on Windows 8 Pro 64-bit. Now it's consuming in excess of 3 GB at the time of crash (as reported by task manager).
    Animations take up a lot of the memory footprint of new models. With Reinforced, before we even put in the new donation reward skins, we had added the female marine with her own entire animation set, which is quite extensive. We also added 3 different grenade types, with their own set of first person and 3rd person animations.

    We have discussed adding an option to disable the new skins, but it isn't very realistic, because we'd also have to remove grenades as well as female marines. We would also have to devote programming time to adding that option in, testing time to insure it is working properly, so we've decided it is much better to devote the time and energy into fixing the problem the right way, which is what we are doing. It might mean a few extra days of living with the crashes, but it won't be much longer now.
    I'm a bit confused by your answer, maybe you can clarify this a bit:
    You basically say that the reason for the new content requiring multiple amounts of the previous memory usage is because of the new content (wasn't that the premise of the question anyway?), particularly model animations. And because disabling the extra content is "not an option" you have just decided to give it some extra days and "do it right" - but what is done right in this case? Reducing models, working on in-memory representation of some 150MB of model data, improving engine scalability...what can expect in a few extra days?
    And what happened to the other issues, like the increased memory fragmentation, cases where the game runs for a while even with the memory consuming female animations. Have these issues been fixed in the previous two weeks before? (possibly in 256?)
    And maybe the big question: Can we expect that the game will ever run sufficiently on the pre-253 hardware specs again?
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer Posts: 2,816 admin
    Novis wrote: »
    I'm a bit confused by your answer, maybe you can clarify this a bit:
    You basically say that the reason for the new content requiring multiple amounts of the previous memory usage is because of the new content (wasn't that the premise of the question anyway?), particularly model animations. And because disabling the extra content is "not an option" you have just decided to give it some extra days and "do it right" - but what is done right in this case? Reducing models, working on in-memory representation of some 150MB of model data, improving engine scalability...what can expect in a few extra days?
    And what happened to the other issues, like the increased memory fragmentation, cases where the game runs for a while even with the memory consuming female animations. Have these issues been fixed in the previous two weeks before? (possibly in 256?)
    And maybe the big question: Can we expect that the game will ever run sufficiently on the pre-253 hardware specs again?
    I was merely clarifying that the problem goes beyond just the addition of the new skins as part of the donation reward tiers, that some people have been implying, and that it isn't as simple as just adding an option to turn off those skins. Because we'd basically have to roll back the actual gameplay content, such as hand grenades, as well, which is much more complicated and time consuming, and frustrates the majority of players who are not having these memory issues.

    There were a number of things, not just with the new art (and each pretty small by themselves) that were added / changed in 252 that just tipped the game over the edge on the memory usage.

    There is a whole range of different optimizations that can and are being done, most of them over my head on the technical side. There have been quite a few checkins such as "Changed the Broadphase class to use a pool allocator to reduce fragmentation" and " Reduced memory usage for storing model indices (saves about 16 MB on ns2_summit)" , so there are a lot of different ways the memory issue is being tackled, and lots of good progress is being made.

    We fully intend to be able to get the game running on the pre-252/253 hardware specs, and ideally improve things so that the game runs even better then it was before.
    madsauce
  • NovisNovis Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19193Members Posts: 98
    There were a number of things, not just with the new art (and each pretty small by themselves) that were added / changed in 252 that just tipped the game over the edge on the memory usage.

    There is a whole range of different optimizations that can and are being done, most of them over my head on the technical side. There have been quite a few checkins such as "Changed the Broadphase class to use a pool allocator to reduce fragmentation" and " Reduced memory usage for storing model indices (saves about 16 MB on ns2_summit)" , so there are a lot of different ways the memory issue is being tackled, and lots of good progress is being made.

    We fully intend to be able to get the game running on the pre-252/253 hardware specs, and ideally improve things so that the game runs even better then it was before.

    Thanks a lot for this! There's finally some beef which makes sense to me and probably a lot others with a bit of technical background.
    I'm not sure if you think that such details are usually wasted in a forum post about what's going on, but imho the gist of progress posts seemed a bit shallow recently, but I definitely appreciate those details, it had a more positive effect on my picture about the development than all those "Things being fixed! Things looking good! Fixing things better!"(excuse my bluntness) reports .
  • nawoanawoa Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174777Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 21
    IMHO anyone still using 32-bit has no right to complain. There's no reason anyone should be using XP anymore and 32-bit Windows Vista/7 is just stupid, you're crippling yourself for no reason. Seriously guys, 3 GB of RAM? You want to play games on that in 2013?

    UW's obligated to support your sorry-ass computers because they said they would from the beginning but I really hope the next generation of consoles having 8 GB of RAM finally renders these 32-bit dinosaurs obsolete so we can all move on from the dark ages.
  • ViVnetViVnet Join Date: 2004-05-27 Member: 28947Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 35 Fully active user
    hycks wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Yes this is occurring for 64 bit users as well.

    I laughed, but not as much as when it was said that 32-bit was the cause!
    tuxator
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members Posts: 1,171 Advanced user
    I have heard of some games having an option to display a standard skin/model for all player classes to reduce memory use. Why not implement this for ns2, since the memory crash is evidently affecting a significant portion of the user base. Or some setting which prevents textures from fully loading and keeps them in the primitive form you see when the game has just loaded.
  • darkhunt333darkhunt333 Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165414Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 75 Advanced user
    ViVnet wrote: »

    I laughed, but not as much as when it was said that 32-bit was the cause!

    It is the cause? Are you even here?
    http://i.imgur.com/OqptiXX.png
    ^ signature images must not exceed 400x75 and 40Kb in size, scale down that monster sig a bit if you please -Kouji San
                                   Move forward with 64 bit already!                                                    Not. One. Step. Back!
  • tuxatortuxator Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69958Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 145 Fully active user
    nawoa wrote: »
    IMHO anyone still using 32-bit has no right to complain. There's no reason anyone should be using XP anymore and 32-bit Windows Vista/7 is just stupid, you're crippling yourself for no reason. Seriously guys, 3 GB of RAM? You want to play games on that in 2013?

    UW's obligated to support your sorry-ass computers because they said they would from the beginning but I really hope the next generation of consoles having 8 GB of RAM finally renders these 32-bit dinosaurs obsolete so we can all move on from the dark ages.

    why would I use a 64bit operating system? You got a bunch of driver problems, especially in Windows 7 64bit (have to deal with that on a nearly daily basis, because customers think '64bit == better'). Also the game itself is only a 32bit program anyway, so it can't even use all of your shiny 16 GB overpriced memory.

    The problem here is that a game uses such an amount of RAM without needing it. Seriously, take a look at openworld games or MMORPGs, you got a huge amount of models and items there and those games rarely take in more than 1.5 GB.

  • HobocopHobocop Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75226Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 130
    Because I'm sure each individual model and texture in open world games and MMORPGs has the same graphical fidelity as a model in a less broad, more focused game.

    Please, use some common sense.
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members Posts: 681 Fully active user
    Any news/progress so far?
    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win" - 孫子 "When you think you win, tighten the strap of your helmet"

    ns2_yakushima, ns2_honorguard
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    Watching the frequent internal code check ins from the developers, i can tell you they are working on this issue as I type this.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    Narfwak
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