I would just like to chime in as well as an old hand and a Con/Reinforce subscriber - The problem with such massive updates is that, much like what happened to NS1, UWE can be its own worst enemy. I am very worried this game could be patched into obsolescence with all the changes. On that note a part of me does wish you had gone the DLC/Expansion route, as it would at least preserve the 'forks' you keep adding to the game.
On the other hand, as others have noted, its a ridiculous value for how much entertainment it brings me, on that note I'm plenty happy paying a subscription for the 'new' versions. Previously I just kept buying extra gift copies out of guilt.
I just don't want this to be like an MMO where if I don't play for 3 months, everything is different. Don't be Blizzard. If you update the game into something I no longer want to play, I'm left with nothing but the long wait for NS3, just like with NS1. There is the golden rule that if the changes are drastic enough, start a new project. There are enough changes here for this to be NS3.
Also, from a purely business perspective, it seems healthier to me to start these 'fundraisers' prior to committing to the project as opposed to incurring a debt to repay.
Good points about UW moving on to another project, I hadn't really thought of it that way. In my mind, NS is still so malleable, with so many possible changes and not very many distinctions on what the 'right' answer is yet, I'd love to see a stable product hang around for a few years. Proper dlc/expansions can only truly occur on a game with a stable foundation anyway, or people will see them for the ad hoc patches/hotfixes that they are.
I mean there are so many things that suffer from these changes, the most obvious being any attempt at a competitive scene. I mean sure there is one, and it's great to see, but those players thrive on the ability to truly dissect the game and understand it. Can't do that with such drastic changes. Other casualties of this are things like the mentor program.. which is great, but how many people are going to line up to be mentors when the damn game changes so much, they may not feel competent enough to teach rooks as they try and relearn the specifics themselves?
The majority of these changes have been in response to severe balance issues realized through the course of competitive play, right? Under the assumption that the end product, regardless of the changes, will be a more balanced, more playable product. The recent builds have gone a long way to address this, but when does it end? Feels like if they moved to a new project now, with 100% of their team, would be like abandoning ship on a game that may have been better or more solid in a previous version.
Are rollbacks really hard? Just musing, not exactly srs.
So far im liking the new build ALOT better than 250/251. However, there is some bad stuff from 250 that was not changed, but, I will overlook that since general gameplay has improved.
(still needs to weed out some major bugs and needs more balancing, for example: marines maneuverability has been buffed too much)
Decided to try the tutorial out and the first thing that happened is that it got stuck since the tutorial asked me to join the marine team but since there was a marine commander bot in the marine team I couldn't join because of "too many players". One would think that you would notice that when you made the tutorial
Nevermind, it was because one of the mods (The Faded) that I had installed. When I disabled it it worked fine. Stupid me!
the fact that:
1.FREE DLC
2.COST OF 550.000$
3.NOW PLZ DONATE 550.000$
is all mentioned in the same video says it all. All i see is 2 new maps in 2013 and 254 changes in the game. its gonna money well spent haha precashe and new build every single day next anyone?
Dude, nobody FORCES you to donate. That's the whole point. You're not fine with it, and we're fine with you not being fine with it. If you don't like it, don't donate. It's easy as that.
Thank, you this is what I wanted, why cannot UWE communicate this and "we need you to betatest this, plz" before these things happen. Also 8 000 000, nice!
Here's what happens when commander get res punished:
So I'm an alien commander, teams are almost equally filled with greens and we a currently having a fight for 3rd tech point and we managed to push marines back and I crash. I try to rejoin ASAP, because servers get filled ever so quickly during free weekend. And I get back into the game and I see that we have 175 res available. Nobody jumped into the hive to drop 3rd hive, cysts and stuff.
So I ask our top player (who has 200+ hours), why didn't you take over ?
The answer: I didn't want to get res punished.
If I didn't rejoin, aliens would lose (but we won).
Here's what happens when commander get res punished:
So I'm an alien commander, teams are almost equally filled with greens and we a currently having a fight for 3rd tech point and we managed to push marines back and I crash. I try to rejoin ASAP, because servers get filled ever so quickly during free weekend. And I get back into the game and I see that we have 175 res available. Nobody jumped into the hive to drop 3rd hive, cysts and stuff.
So I ask our top player (who has 200+ hours), why didn't you take over ?
The answer: I didn't want to get res punished.
If I didn't rejoin, aliens would lose (but we won).
This is clearly a bad mechanic.
This is clearly a bad egotist.
There's one more thing I'm curious about. You (Unknownworlds) threw about an arbitrary number defining Reinforced development cost. Since you're asking the community to refund these costs with donations I think its only fair that you're a little more transparent about what these costs actually are. It may also give a little more insight into what goes into making a game like this.
I don't really play NS2 as often anymore (I miss the dynamic gameplay style of NS1 where a base location isn't pre-determined), but this devteam always has my love and support, so sign me up for Shadow! They have poured their blood into this project ever since NS1.
I might have further supported development of NS2, but then there was the whole "you will get used to the new alien vision because it will make you will appreciate our artwork" thing
It's a wise decision on their part. In fact, it's something I suggested every since NS2 was in beta. It was always pretty lame to have to play in the "vision" mode and miss out on all the atmosphere due to the advantage it had. Now you can have the advantage and atmosphere at the same time. It's a welcome addition, in my books.
Well I donated, thou frankly seeing how people are acting I think they should switch to a Paid DLC route at this point, if people think a none mandatory donation is just "AWFUL OF THEM" then let them charge for each piece of DLC like CoD or Halo been doing for years.
Wait, it's now Linux-able, but still not mac-able? I bought this game 2 years ago, and havent played it once because i thought Unknown would add mac relatively quickly. I am happy for the linux users, but really pissed that mac STILL cant play the game. WIll i have to wait another 2 years or will you FINALLY decide to make NS2 macable? It looks like such an awesome game, which makes it even more annoying that i cannot play it.
Wait, it's now Linux-able, but still not mac-able? I bought this game 2 years ago, and havent played it once because i thought Unknown would add mac relatively quickly. I am happy for the linux users, but really pissed that mac STILL cant play the game. WIll i have to wait another 2 years or will you FINALLY decide to make NS2 macable? It looks like such an awesome game, which makes it even more annoying that i cannot play it.
I feel your pain. There's no reason to do Linux first. There are far more OS X users than Linux (source: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey). But oh well, I asked and they said OS X will be ready soon.
Comments
On the other hand, as others have noted, its a ridiculous value for how much entertainment it brings me, on that note I'm plenty happy paying a subscription for the 'new' versions. Previously I just kept buying extra gift copies out of guilt.
I just don't want this to be like an MMO where if I don't play for 3 months, everything is different. Don't be Blizzard. If you update the game into something I no longer want to play, I'm left with nothing but the long wait for NS3, just like with NS1. There is the golden rule that if the changes are drastic enough, start a new project. There are enough changes here for this to be NS3.
Also, from a purely business perspective, it seems healthier to me to start these 'fundraisers' prior to committing to the project as opposed to incurring a debt to repay.
If I had the free money I really would donate that amount
I mean there are so many things that suffer from these changes, the most obvious being any attempt at a competitive scene. I mean sure there is one, and it's great to see, but those players thrive on the ability to truly dissect the game and understand it. Can't do that with such drastic changes. Other casualties of this are things like the mentor program.. which is great, but how many people are going to line up to be mentors when the damn game changes so much, they may not feel competent enough to teach rooks as they try and relearn the specifics themselves?
The majority of these changes have been in response to severe balance issues realized through the course of competitive play, right? Under the assumption that the end product, regardless of the changes, will be a more balanced, more playable product. The recent builds have gone a long way to address this, but when does it end? Feels like if they moved to a new project now, with 100% of their team, would be like abandoning ship on a game that may have been better or more solid in a previous version.
Are rollbacks really hard? Just musing, not exactly srs.
(still needs to weed out some major bugs and needs more balancing, for example: marines maneuverability has been buffed too much)
Maybe you should have finished the game before release.
Nevermind, it was because one of the mods (The Faded) that I had installed. When I disabled it it worked fine. Stupid me!
No! See the second video here for a good explanation!
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/30/natural-selection-2-needs-cash-asks-the-crowd/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rockpapershotgun/steam+(Rock,+Paper,+Shotgun:+Steam+RSS)
The game = 22€ => 5.8€(-75%)
What the hell !
Crowdfunding is a sort of DLC for restrictive people.
Bad idea - UWE
:-q
Sorry, what?
1.FREE DLC
2.COST OF 550.000$
3.NOW PLZ DONATE 550.000$
is all mentioned in the same video says it all. All i see is 2 new maps in 2013 and 254 changes in the game. its gonna money well spent haha precashe and new build every single day next anyone?
Thank, you this is what I wanted, why cannot UWE communicate this and "we need you to betatest this, plz" before these things happen. Also 8 000 000, nice!
So I'm an alien commander, teams are almost equally filled with greens and we a currently having a fight for 3rd tech point and we managed to push marines back and I crash. I try to rejoin ASAP, because servers get filled ever so quickly during free weekend. And I get back into the game and I see that we have 175 res available. Nobody jumped into the hive to drop 3rd hive, cysts and stuff.
So I ask our top player (who has 200+ hours), why didn't you take over ?
The answer: I didn't want to get res punished.
If I didn't rejoin, aliens would lose (but we won).
This is clearly a bad mechanic.
FTFY
I've played many games today and watched newbie commanders make the same mistake over and over again.
Ignoring players requests to drop power points and extractors whilst concentrating on building the base instead.
Are you sure you didn't mean 300% ???????
Marketing, maybe?
It doesn't have a deadline yet. Maybe it will never have a deadline, who knows.
It's a wise decision on their part. In fact, it's something I suggested every since NS2 was in beta. It was always pretty lame to have to play in the "vision" mode and miss out on all the atmosphere due to the advantage it had. Now you can have the advantage and atmosphere at the same time. It's a welcome addition, in my books.
Good point. They are on events like PAX, though, and I'm sure that's not cheap.