The new marine jumping feels terrible
Kamamura
Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
There was always a problem with the skulk vs. marine close range combat in this game, and it relates to how human eye vs. computer display works. Basically, if you are fighting, or playing a fast ball game, etc. you seldom lose track of the ball/opponent, because the human eye and brain automatically prioritize the important objects and the human eye tracks its user even being aware of it. Observe a person looking out of a train window, you will see his eyes are performing fast movements related to tracking of the objects of interest on the moving landscape outside.
However, a computer game like this is quite different - there is no "auto tracking" your eye can do fast and without manual input (unlike mouse), you have much smaller cone of vision (eyes can do almost 180 degrees including the peripheral areas), you have no peripheral vision that is tuned to be ultra sensitive to fast movement. Yet, you are supposed to track a fast moving target that moves in and out of your field of vision - sometimes, due to the low refresh rate of LCD monitors, shown only as a few discrete frames.
Before, it was possible to develop a sort of prediction playing as skulk, allowing you to know where the jumping marine will land, thus compensating for having him outside of your small field of vision. But with this patch, the marine jumps have become too erratic, unpredictable and hard to track. IMO less skill dependency and more luck. I have already noticed good players moving backwards in combat in a desperate attempt to get marines back into field of vision, which of course exposes them to bullet fire and already nerfs the recently nerfed skulk. Worse contrast of the new vision modes further aggravate the problem (even though I like the new vision better overall).
However, a computer game like this is quite different - there is no "auto tracking" your eye can do fast and without manual input (unlike mouse), you have much smaller cone of vision (eyes can do almost 180 degrees including the peripheral areas), you have no peripheral vision that is tuned to be ultra sensitive to fast movement. Yet, you are supposed to track a fast moving target that moves in and out of your field of vision - sometimes, due to the low refresh rate of LCD monitors, shown only as a few discrete frames.
Before, it was possible to develop a sort of prediction playing as skulk, allowing you to know where the jumping marine will land, thus compensating for having him outside of your small field of vision. But with this patch, the marine jumps have become too erratic, unpredictable and hard to track. IMO less skill dependency and more luck. I have already noticed good players moving backwards in combat in a desperate attempt to get marines back into field of vision, which of course exposes them to bullet fire and already nerfs the recently nerfed skulk. Worse contrast of the new vision modes further aggravate the problem (even though I like the new vision better overall).
Comments
I mind the frustrating unpredictability that makes aiming the bites so frustrating, luck-dependent affair.
But I need more time to see if I can adapt and find a counter to this new marine behavior before I will start to cry in the forums.
I've played 15-20 rounds of this build none very enjoyable as kharaa .
Every marine round has had me laughing either medpacking an immortal marine jumping his ass off or just running around alone with no strategy killing things that have been patiently awaiting to ambush.
Okay, I'll give it a few days then, before we see you back.
I'd recommend everyone go through their settings one by one as many things were reset or tweaked, and some of the on/off stuff may need to be toggled to correctly represent their current state.
The marine jump definitely does take some getting used to, though, so give yourself some time to practice against it.
Maybe we need a tutorial outlining the art of the disengage.
Marine spam jumping has been the one thing I hate about NS2 over the past 3 years. I have sort of given up complaining about it though as nothing changes and in fact since 250 it has become considerably worse. I pity the new players over the next few days playing aliens and especially the Skulk.
I hear a lot of people complain about it in game and on the forum but UWE seem to only listen to those within their ranks or those with a clan tag added to their nick.
Before anyone says it...I have over 1000 hours in and consider myself above average so its not a L2P iss. Its just unnecessary and frustrating.
Aliens have to close that distance to get within melee range. I have said this a hundred times, but Aliens should never be at a disadvantage once they get in melee range but they are, as a marine can now just jump so far and keep jumping that the alien is constantly have to get within the biting range again.
Combat is not fun as it just consists of both Marines and Aliens spam jumping in circles until someone dies. It feels more like luck than skill and this alone has stopped me playing anywhere near as much as I was.
Its probably this mentality that is getting so many people frustrated. In my extensive NS experience, marine accuracy increases rapidly the closer you get to them. It isn't melee range where you have the advantage, its on the approach. Getting into melee range of a marine is ridiculously easy for anybody who has played any FPS for 10 minutes. If aliens had an overwhelming advantage when in close range, all noobs would die and all vets would constantly kill every marine.
The idea that aliens have a melee advantage is erroneous in my opinion. Aliens have a damage output advantage.
In order to address this properly, and improve your game play as a skulk, i recommend the following.
When engaging a target, try to enter at max speed. bite the target and then continue moving.
you will regain speed,then take your next bite. You can also gain leverage by moving away from target, walking up on wall, then jump down onto target to bite him again.
I was able to kill 6 people in a row last night by running, jumping, biting.
As a skulk, doing the tango dance usually gets you killed.
This is IMO so wrong in so many ways I don't know where to begin. The marine advantage is the initiative coming from having ranged weapons, the positioning, and most importantly, the ability to concentrate fire in a group. A group of skulks are at a serious disadvantage UNLESS they can get into range. In every game that pits melee vs ranged troops against each other it is like that. In reality, ranged weapons became dominant with enough rate of fire, since real life battlefields are so huge, the range is so great and people die so easily, but until repeating rifles, it was not so clear. With an automatic weapon, the advantage is huge of course (even though the damage per bullet is pea-shooter like), so the game must compensate to the melee fighter somehow.
In games like Space Hulk, genestealers enjoy considerable advantage up close. If you can have ranged weapons and the alien is at a disadvantage, but he proves to be cunning enough to get into melee range, and you can still out-jump him with ease, you are dealing with a broken game.
How does an attack of a predatory animal like bear, tiger or a wolf looks in reality? The animal pounces it's prey, knocking it off its feet, and tears it apart on the ground. The "jump-jump-jump" gameplay comes from the ancient times of Quake, Duke Nukem, HL1 and other old games where engines were super simple and jumping was discovered as a simple way to dodge and provide a difficult target. It's worst form is the BF2 dolphin diving, but IMO in modern games, it's an obsolete and ancient relic that does not provide satisfying combat experience.
And by the way, I am no newbie, I have been playing this game since December and other games most of my life.
EDIT: It's one of the reasons old games like Quake are as good as they are.
You can kill jumping marine as alien and you can evade skulk bites, as marine. Just a little practice and there you go.
You miss my points entirely. It's your right, of course.