Build 250 is now live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2

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Comments

  • RabidWeaselRabidWeasel Members Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5337Posts: 955 Fully active user
    I am pretty sure about 50% of the complaining is because of an inaccurate perception by some that BT was an independent mod (made by super elitists who hate fun obv) that somehow got integrated into the main game. If it had been called "official NS2 beta test" or something like that from the outset that the perception would have (correctly) been that it was just a change in development strategy from previously.
    MrFangselodea
  • KamamuraKamamura Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Posts: 669 Advanced user
    edited June 2013
    I have tried the new build, and I like the most of it. The only changes I really dislike are both related to skulk:

    - having to pay pres for alien upgrades
    - removal of glancing bites

    Glancing bites were good IMO, they rewarded accuracy, but still gave less skillful players a chance. But paying for upgrades is very bad - skulks are the fallback lifeform for less skilled players, they worked as cannon fodder while the higher lifeform had to stay alive. Skulks have no means of getting out of combat, they don't have the resilience of a gorge, speed of lerk nor the agility of the fade, not to mention the heap of HP of an onos. When the new system discourages skulks sacrificing themselves for the team, it's not good. Plus, do marines have to re-pay for upgrades? No.

    Otherwise I am happy that the game is worked upon even so long after release. The long testing period is nice, at least we are getting a solid, tried product.

    Good luck with future patches!
    Each day, hundreds of enthusiastic new players rush to join the ranks of the TSF to protect the universe, our beloved and the values of our society from the alien menace.

    Glory to the TSF! Glory to Arstotzka ! Glory to the mods!
    Mattk50
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Members Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Posts: 280 Advanced user
    Skulk ups don't cost anything :S
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Posts: 1,037
    @Kamamura you do not need to pay for skulk upgrades. I agree that would have been a pretty bad change.
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
  • KamamuraKamamura Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Posts: 669 Advanced user
    You don't? Okay then, I apologize. I must have misread the changelog.
    Each day, hundreds of enthusiastic new players rush to join the ranks of the TSF to protect the universe, our beloved and the values of our society from the alien menace.

    Glory to the TSF! Glory to Arstotzka ! Glory to the mods!
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Posts: 1,037
    Yeah, prices for upgrades scale based on the lifeform. So they are free for skulks but cost more for higher lifeforms (2 gorge, 3 lerk, 5 fade, 8 onos)
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
  • SUPER_SARSSUPER_SARS Members Join Date: 2013-02-13 Member: 183039Posts: 274 Advanced user
    Kamamura wrote: »
    You don't? Okay then, I apologize. I must have misread the changelog.

    0 for any skulk upgrades
    2 for any gorge upgrades
    3 for any lerk upgrades
    5 for any fade upgrades
    8 for any onos upgrades

    5 res to go gorge
    25 res to go lerk
    40 res to go fade
    60 res to go onos

    The cost of the lifeforms have been lowered but offset by the costs of the upgrades. If you spend a lot of time as a skulk, every single upgrade is free. Any upgrade you can change on the fly for any lifeform, but you must pay the above cost.
  • StrikerX3StrikerX3 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168423Posts: 259 Fully active user
    edited June 2013
    Basically it costs about the same as before to evolve a lifeform with 2 upgrades. Skulks are still free and you can swap upgrades anytime you want.

    Removal of glancing bites is actually a good thing since it now removes the damage scaling. You can now count the number of bites and be sure of the amount of damage you did to the marine.
    .StrikerX3 :: Steam :: YouTube :: Twitch.tv :: Blog
  • EndymionisEndymionis Members Join Date: 2013-06-27 Member: 185727Posts: 3
    Ok, time for more "constructive" criticism. First of all let's start with the alien tech three. It's no longer a three, just a very long branch. Before you had to adapt to your aliens, strategy and your opponents. Now it is very linear. Parts of the changes are not innovative at all, just taken from NS1, not necessarily a bad thing, but I feel UWE can do better than this.
    The alien com does have have more thing he can do to keep himself busy, but I do not think it is worth the trade-off.

    Too me it seems very unbalanced, at least the games I have played so far has been. (Perhaps this will change with time)

    I did not think the bt mod was testing of a new version, I thought it was testing of various changes that *might* be implemented into the game.
    One at a time. And I hoped that most would not.

    The community seems very divided on this, some like it, many hate it. On the forums many seems positive to the new changes, but when you play you will get a totally different impression.
    Zomb3hRobotixKenshir0
  • KuddlyKalliKuddlyKalli Yuggera CountryMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2010-12-23 Member: 75905Posts: 446 Advanced user
    To all those saying that the changes came without warning:
    Maybe next time you should read the news updates posted on the main menu in game.

    This has been a long time coming and was mentioned repeatedly across all media platforms. If you bury your head in the sand you won't see the tide coming in.
    ♥ KuddlyKalli
    MiniH0wie
  • LastdonLastdon Members Join Date: 2012-06-29 Member: 153767Posts: 67 Advanced user

    Anyone up for an experiment?

    Go marine comm and immediately research AA, hold a few RTs for a while and get an Obs so you can beacon, then once advanced weapons are up buy 1 or 2 GLs and a bunch of flamers and rush the main hive.

    I bet you can win about 90% of pub games this way. There is virtually no counter to it unless marines are extremely incompetent.

    Nerf GLs and flamers. Seriously.

    Try fade VS jetpack flamer marine watch yourself get destroyed in .5 secs and can't even get away cause they zap your energy. Even worse turn the corner shotgun and flamethrower marines Insta gibbed.
    Zomb3hKenshir0Robotixhalfofaheaven
  • sotanahtsotanaht Members Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Posts: 1,020 Fully active user
    Lastdon wrote: »
    Anyone up for an experiment?

    Go marine comm and immediately research AA, hold a few RTs for a while and get an Obs so you can beacon, then once advanced weapons are up buy 1 or 2 GLs and a bunch of flamers and rush the main hive.

    I bet you can win about 90% of pub games this way. There is virtually no counter to it unless marines are extremely incompetent.

    Nerf GLs and flamers. Seriously.

    Try fade VS jetpack flamer marine watch yourself get destroyed in .5 secs and can't even get away cause they zap your energy. Even worse turn the corner shotgun and flamethrower marines Insta gibbed.

    Two flamer JPs can gank and chase down an onos from full to dead. With the JP upgrades and onos range nerf, the JP can VERY easily dodge out of the onos attack. No matter which way the onos runs, at them or away, they can keep up and out of reach while burning him down and finishing his HP before even needing to reload. One flamer can do about 70%.
    Zomb3hRobotixInzann
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Posts: 616 Fully active user
    edited June 2013
    Ive played lots, I am giving serious concideration to uninstalling... HATE THIS PATCH!!!

    Stop messing with the core mechanics that have been in place for years, concentrate on new maps. Honestly please take this back to the last build gameplay and stop pushing us away from this game.


    [Cult]MartyMcFly - Yo!Clan Regular - Player of Real-Lifeâ„¢
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")
    Zomb3hInzannMattk50Blake IceNS2Player
  • JektJekt Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    edited June 2013
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    Ive played lots, I am giving serious concideration to uninstalling... HATE THIS PATCH!!!

    Stop messing with the core mechanics that have been in place for years, concentrate on new maps. Honestly please take this back to the last build gameplay and stop pushing us away from this game.

    What core mechanics are you even talking about? Especially curious about the ones that have been in place for years. They all seem in tact to me. In fact overall, rounds still play out in a near identical way.

    Marines and aliens don't get along. Marines get res. Aliens get res. They try to kill the opponents res. Aliens get more life forms with res. Marines get weapons with res.

    Which core mechanics aren't there anymore?


    Inzann
  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Posts: 368 Fully active user
    Just wanted to give some quick anecdotal feedback before I'm off for tonight.
    The patch is AWESOME! I had a game on summit where marines had an epic comeback from one chair and no tech mid game! It was so brilliant, everyone was like: "stuff this, let's just concede" as power in our went down. But we relocated to Atrium, got some control over Xroads and had two ppl with enough res to buy dual exos after we had our proto lab back up. In a back and forward battle with many onoses dying we gained ground and finally defeated the alien team!
    I'm not sure if that was due to the bt changes, but I know that within the 300+ h I've played this game, I've never seen such an epic comeback!
    From the folks I play with several have been on the verge of dropping NS2 (me included) because it just got too predictable. The overwhelming tenor after playing 250 was, that it feels fresh and much more dynamic.

    I also have to say: I love the new fade even more than the old one: chuck on some regen and cele and never stop moving. Fade now isn't so much a killing machine but a damage and distraction machine.

    Thanks UWE for this amazing patch, for all the work you put into this game! I feel really sorry for you that you have to take so much shit from ppl who just don't want to give this a fair chance. Some ppl can only be pleased by not pleasing them...
    InzannBicsumgeggis
  • VonDoomVonDoom Knee deep in the latencyMembers, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-10-08 Member: 68989Posts: 143 Fully active user
    I have been enjoying it so far, I like the additional emphasis on teamwork + welding and the biomass element. And cheaper lifeforms for aliens + rines can build on infestation = more action and variety, which is a positive thing.
  • Mad selectionMad selection Members Join Date: 2013-01-01 Member: 176967Posts: 50
    To all those saying that the changes came without warning:
    Maybe next time you should read the news updates posted on the main menu in game.

    This has been a long time coming and was mentioned repeatedly across all media platforms. If you bury your head in the sand you won't see the tide coming in.

    Maybe they should warn that the gameplay experience is gonna be *completely different*.

    There is a difference between major changes (aka I've heard that we would weld each others to repair armor, fine by me) and transforming the gameplay into an obnoxious and quite boring spamfest (die in 2 bites, can't face a decent marine player without dying right away as skulk).

    I'm sure you'll be delighted that tons of peoples probably won't be there "next time". Keep the game for yourself, bury your head in the sand and make sure you close yourself to the rejection of your ideas. That sure is a winning strategy for the company.
    Zomb3hMattk50BottNS2Player
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Members Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Posts: 681 Fully active user
    Is there a way to disable the upgrade icons in the hud?
    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win" - 孫子 "When you think you win, tighten the strap of your helmet"

    ns2_yakushima, ns2_honorguard
  • SlowLeftySlowLefty Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2011-02-13 Member: 81653Posts: 55
    I have mixed feelings, but going to give it some more time. I feel doing a sale after a major change was stupid, you have thrown new players into a pool of confusion and bitching, which is not good for a first experience. I just hope they get through it and stick around.
    NominousMrFangs
  • Kenshir0Kenshir0 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-02-25 Member: 183347Posts: 28
    Jekt wrote: »
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    Ive played lots, I am giving serious concideration to uninstalling... HATE THIS PATCH!!!

    Stop messing with the core mechanics that have been in place for years, concentrate on new maps. Honestly please take this back to the last build gameplay and stop pushing us away from this game.

    What core mechanics are you even talking about? Especially curious about the ones that have been in place for years. They all seem in tact to me. In fact overall, rounds still play out in a near identical way.

    Marines and aliens don't get along. Marines get res. Aliens get res. They try to kill the opponents res. Aliens get more life forms with res. Marines get weapons with res.

    Which core mechanics aren't there anymore?


    Lets say movement for example or the upgrade system...

    Here is the changelog in case you didnt read which by the looks of your post you didnt : http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/build-250-is-now-live-on-steam/

    NS2Player
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, BelgiumMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Posts: 1,305 Advanced user
    Ch ch ch ch chaaaaanges. Turn and face the strange. Ch ch changes...
    SeeVeeRamaangeggis
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call?Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    Okay I've tried to pin down this fade clipping bug (and before you ask, yes I can play the new fade). I have been clipped on the top of an extractor, and get clipped on marines quite a lot. That particular game I spent being desperately careful to avoid getting stuck, which was fine, but the very next game I lost my fade very quickly through getting stuck on a marine again.
    For people who don't know how to fade, this is probably the least of their problems with the new fade. For those of us who do, it can be devastating (and if you're the fade keeping the team together... it's pretty much gg).

    Really need to get to the bottom of this one. @Ironhorse, any ideas?
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
  • EucomolhamasEucomolhamas Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-10 Member: 183841Posts: 120 Advanced user
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    Ive played lots, I am giving serious concideration to uninstalling... HATE THIS PATCH!!!

    Stop messing with the core mechanics that have been in place for years, concentrate on new maps. Honestly please take this back to the last build gameplay and stop pushing us away from this game.

    Yeah, we get it, you don't like the patch. Now would you stop spamming?



    Yep, it's me again. I played the whole day simply because I am open minded and a person who won't just give up on learning something and guess what happened?
    I totally ravage with the fade. :D
    Now I see that the SS and blink switch just made playing a fade much easier, which is awesome considering the damage reduction. I'm still trying to adapt to the new skulking, but haven't fully mastered it yet.

    As I said earlier, I wasn't raging. Just giving first impressions after the few hours of gameplay. I immediately adapted the bunnyhopping, but there's one thing that was pretty misleading in the video that covered the new movement.
    In the video he used blink in between of every jump, and as I tried it I simply lost all my energy really fast when the true technique is using blink once and then bunnyhopping like a rabbit on steroids.


    Now I still do prefer the old version (for now), but after getting back to my all time favorite thing in NS2 I can't see why not just play the game.




    Oh, one more thing! I promised you guys that I'd play more. :> NS is just simply not something I could give away just like that.

    Nominous
  • extolloextollo Ping Blip Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72457Posts: 368 Advanced user
    Neoken wrote: »
    Ch ch ch ch chaaaaanges. Turn and face the strange. Ch ch changes...

    just gonna have to be a different man
  • IndustryIndustry Esteemed Gentleman Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2010-07-13 Member: 72344Posts: 698
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Okay I've tried to pin down this fade clipping bug (and before you ask, yes I can play the new fade). I have been clipped on the top of an extractor, and get clipped on marines quite a lot. That particular game I spent being desperately careful to avoid getting stuck, which was fine, but the very next game I lost my fade very quickly through getting stuck on a marine again.
    For people who don't know how to fade, this is probably the least of their problems with the new fade. For those of us who do, it can be devastating (and if you're the fade keeping the team together... it's pretty much gg).

    Really need to get to the bottom of this one. @Ironhorse, any ideas?

    I haven't experienced this one but if you are able to record it happening in a decently HQ format it could probably be reproduced and nailed down from that.
    THE IP ADDRESS IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE.
  • RamaanRamaan Members Join Date: 2013-06-27 Member: 185734Posts: 5
    Just wanted to give some quick anecdotal feedback before I'm off for tonight.
    The patch is AWESOME! I had a game on summit where marines had an epic comeback from one chair and no tech mid game! It was so brilliant, everyone was like: "stuff this, let's just concede" as power in our went down. But we relocated to Atrium, got some control over Xroads and had two ppl with enough res to buy dual exos after we had our proto lab back up. In a back and forward battle with many onoses dying we gained ground and finally defeated the alien team!
    I'm not sure if that was due to the bt changes, but I know that within the 300+ h I've played this game, I've never seen such an epic comeback!
    From the folks I play with several have been on the verge of dropping NS2 (me included) because it just got too predictable. The overwhelming tenor after playing 250 was, that it feels fresh and much more dynamic.

    I also have to say: I love the new fade even more than the old one: chuck on some regen and cele and never stop moving. Fade now isn't so much a killing machine but a damage and distraction machine.

    Thanks UWE for this amazing patch, for all the work you put into this game! I feel really sorry for you that you have to take so much shit from ppl who just don't want to give this a fair chance. Some ppl can only be pleased by not pleasing them...


    I think it is kind of naiv to state the balance of this patch just by taking 1 Game in consideration. Those "comebacks" could be done before too with arcs and aggressive teamplay. Fade was never "meant" to be a killing machine, it is a fast, precise assassin (luv me some Gls ^^) , but overall I know what you are trying to say. Nevertheless the same can't be done by aliens due to biomass limitations altough rines can upgrade even JP/Exo with one cc so where is the gameplay-mechanics for aliens in this case ?
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