Build 250 is now live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2

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Comments

  • jonsjons Join Date: 2013-02-01 Member: 182705Members
    The change to marine armor (which is not healed by the armory) completely changed my playstyle and has made me more dependent on my teammates to survive. While this is better for competitive play, it made pub play more frustrating because everyone has to relearn and get into the habit of buying a welder (they usually do not buy one). What this change also did was made it a bit harder for marines to turtle (the armory regenerated your armor faster than a welder did), but this was offset slightly by needing only one techpoint to buy jetpacks and exos.

    If this were an RPG, i'd say that the marine's attack went up and marine's defense went down. A lot of people are underestimating this change. You can either SHOOT or "heal" your teammate. A lot of pubbers choose to shoot. This places a very big emphasis on the welder. I think that maybe an advanced armory* should be allowed to heal marine's armor.
    On the other hand, I feel that the change to marine armor has buffed the lerk because they can just strip off their armor and the lerk poison bite does more damage.

    Changes to the skulk are amazing, as it is much faster than before. Overall, most of the alien gameplay for me was mostly relearning how to move around. I thought that the biggest nerf for aliens was the onos range and damage, as phantom and aura are amazing upgrades that aliens can utilize early game.

    Overall, I think there are still going to be more changes to the game once the dust clears.

    P.S. The grenade launcher is very fun to use now
  • RemiGotoRemiGoto Join Date: 2013-06-27 Member: 185715Members
    Ghosthree3
    페이드의 속도 유지가 중요한것이 아닙니다
    쉐도우스텝, 블링크, 사용중에도 페이드를 더 잘 볼수있다는것이 중요합니다.

    샷건의 연사속도 상승, 페이드는 살아남기 힘듭니다.

    그리고 페이드는 더이상 샷건 마린과 교전하기 힘듭니다
    아드레날린이 부족하기 때문에

  • RemiGotoRemiGoto Join Date: 2013-06-27 Member: 185715Members
    내가 해온 어떤 게임도 한번의 패치로 이렇게 많은것들
    게임 안에서의 전반적인 운영, 움직임, 각 유닛의 능력, 기타등등 모든것이 바뀌지않았습니다.

    이런 큰 패치는 분명 좋아하는 사람도 있겠지만, 나와같이 싫어하는 사람도 있습니다.
    그렇다면 이 패치를 싫어하는 사람들은 게임을 플레이하지 않게 되겟죠

    이해할 수 없다.
    이런 패치를 한번의 패치에 적용시키는것
  • HayakuHayaku Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165417Members
    Wow. You have made some nice changes to balance changes that you have made earlier. Congrats on that.

    Now just remove this &$%# and revert some changes to aliens (at least fade blink/shadowstep changes) and everything will be nice. Biomass + scalable upgrades = randomness of health and defense. I can't assess if I can rush somewhere now cause My health/defense can drastically shrink anytime.

    I hope that you won't test balance changes for next month but quickly repair some things (and remove biomass).

    Also look at this in a way I'm looking at it now: I'm having vacation from end of May to end of September. Me and my friends can't play until some normal balance changes will be made. You will probably leave biomass for now so we won't be able to play until Biodome update. After that you will roll out next balance update cause it will change game a bit and also then you will know what was wrong in this big balance change that you have made now. So let's say that game will be fixed in terms of balance in mid September (Biodome update will be released in August/September so lets say that in late August). That leaves us (me with friends) with a maximum of whole September to play normally (as for vacation). And now add many more people that have the same view at balance changes that you have made.

    I hope that this post will bring something to community and make some people think.
  • halfofaheavenhalfofaheaven Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168660Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold
    I don't understand why nothing has been done about early FT/GL and early umbra being MASSIVELY overpowered. It's been an issue for weeks now.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited June 2013
    RemiGoto wrote: »
    Ghosthree3
    페이드의 속도 유지가 중요한것이 아닙니다
    쉐도우스텝, 블링크, 사용중에도 페이드를 더 잘 볼수있다는것이 중요합니다.

    샷건의 연사속도 상승, 페이드는 살아남기 힘듭니다.

    그리고 페이드는 더이상 샷건 마린과 교전하기 힘듭니다
    아드레날린이 부족하기 때문에

    그래, 난 그것뿐만 아니라 매우 어려운 지금 산탄 총을 가지고 해병대 (품위 손상을하는 동안) 살아남을 찾을 때문에 나는별로 에너지 관리의 몇 번 죽었을하지만 난 시간이 더 할 것 같아요. 페이드 비록 지금은 확실히 약하다 (내 생각에)하지만 그것은 게임에 대한 나쁜 너무 나쁘지 않다.

    Yes, I as well find it VERY difficult to survive (while doing decent damage) to marines that have shotguns now, I have died a few times because of poor energy management but I think I'll do better with time. Fades are definitely weaker now though (in my opinion) but it's not so bad that it's bad for the game.
  • Mattk50Mattk50 Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    test unsuccessful. fix fades.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    You can't say fix fades when you haven't taken the time to learn the new one, I bet you weren't exactly raping marines the first time you played the old fade either. NOW you're just pissed because you WERE good at it, and now you're not (I feel your pain). But it's a good change I think (SS Fade OP).
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Honestly at this point I wouldnt want to go back to the SS Fade, I have more control over the blinking fade than was ever possible with SS
  • XaoXao Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174840Members
    I don't even care what remi is saying but I hope he hates it.
    I don't understand why nothing has been done about early FT/GL and early umbra being MASSIVELY overpowered. It's been an issue for weeks now.

    Can't balance nano shield in 6 months, lets just give it to aliens in the form of a new umbra that is idiot proof in application and available by 7 mins or less.

    Attacking a GL as fade is Russian roulette still.
  • DarkRaven17DarkRaven17 Join Date: 2013-06-27 Member: 185711Members
    So many complaints about the fade, give it time, it is much better now.

    It will take you time to get used to it, but overall it has a higher skill ceiling, instead of just randomly SS'ing in the heat of battle you have to use your brain.
    Not only that, but you have to learn to pick and choose your battles.
    One good fade will still destroy pub games.
  • RockyMarcRockyMarc Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69519Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2013
    Does the grenade launcher do as much damage to marines as what it deals out to aliens?
    By that I mean if you smack a fade in the face with a grenade up close and hit yourself.
  • RevyRevy Join Date: 2008-03-22 Member: 63928Members
    Well there we go game died at version 250 Onos Bar signing out
  • wirywiry Join Date: 2009-05-25 Member: 67479Members
    stop hitting yourself.
  • Zomb3hZomb3h Join Date: 2011-01-27 Member: 79241Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    TO ALL TESTERS, PLEASE READ.

    Here's my feedback on two things which I find highly annoying:
    Biomass, and Air Control during combat.

    Biomass:
    Why should Biomass increase health? Shooting Skulks is a pain in the #*$(
    Marines have infinite sprint simply because of how fast Aliens can cover the map now, correct?
    So what's the reasoning behind Biomass' increase of health?

    Air Control during combat
    Initial thoughts: Air control (acceleration) is extremely high.
    If you PRESS forward, jump, and turn a 360 at the SAME TIME, you can land on the same spot. You couldn't do that before in pre-250.
    I bet if you turned your sensitivity high enough, you could pull off a 720xXnoscopeXx and still land on the same spot.
    It almost feels like a mouse-accelerated style of turning in that the speed at which you turn is determined by how fast you move your mouse.

    Which brings an important factor of Skulk CQC and gameplay: TRACKING.

    If a marine is constantly moving out of your FOV, tracking him is crucial yes? THIS BUILD MAKES TRACKING DIFFICULT AND ERRATIC.
    In any fast CQC situation in this build, trying to turn with haste results in a fast, unpredictable sense of tracking because you're already turning past the guy when you think you have him in your sight.

    With no strong sense of tracking, in addition to the absence of glancing bites, Skulking becomes an extremely random and punishing experience.

    Conclusion:
    Overall, I don't enjoy this build.
    Infinite sprint is about the only pro I can think of. Wall-jumping is a half pro/half con, because if I'm having more fun wall-jumping than actual combat, then I'm only fulfilling half the role of a Skulk.

    As a Marine, you have to deal with increased Kharaa health under Biomass, which is a constantly changing variable.
    As a Skulk, the new movement code results in too much and too fast Air Control, making it painstakingly difficult for tracking purposes.

    Pre-250, I would play Skulk with my chest high knowing when I went out that hive room, I was 100% confident in my tracking abilities despite how fast the TSF moved out of my FOV.

    Post-250, I feel like a neutered Skulk, having ZERO confidence and ZERO drive to continue playing, with every fight being a gamble and a roll of the dice.

    TL;DR on this build
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    edited June 2013
    I downloaded the patch, tried it for a couple of hours and cried. Cried not of joy (which I had hoped after waiting for the patch so long since it looked soooo good), but of grief about the new fade...

    I mean really? I'll try my best not to rage here, I know I just have to do that tens of hours of practice again, but I just can't stop getting my face red over the new fade.

    First of all, how slow it is. I can't see why shadowstep and blink should change places, I'd say just replace blink with something more useful, but it had to become the bane of the fades, the ultimate energy consumer, the reason you can get into battle but not out of it. Well, at least before everyone learns something new (yes, people spammed me about just having to learn it, no, they didn't bother giving any tips, so I guessed they had no idea either).

    Second, I guess the momentum change with SS means no more shadowstep + jump, darn, I couldn't even find a way to build any momentum with the blink, are adrenaline fades dead now?


    From these experiences, I saw nothing so big as the fades. Marines feel pretty much the same excluding the weldspam, and skulks are pretty much exactly the same if you bothered to walljump before, so first impression: neither are perfect, but I prefer the old one.

    Shall try again tomorrow if there's any chances of people learning some tricks while I'm gone.


    P.S. I wonder how many "lol u mad?" minded replies I'll get. :D

    I recently played bt with some people who were new to it. They felt like fade was so slow now, and disliked the movement changes in general, until I explained them how to use the new movement system. They picked it up almost immediately once they knew what to do, and ultimately concluded then new skulk/fade was much more fun to play than vanilla.

    This is why I really hoped UWE would not just put BT mod out there without any sort of proper guidance. As much as I love the bt mod, I wouldn't have mind it coming out a week later if that meant there was a good video and tutorial prepped to go with it. First impressions are so important.


    For those still wondering:

    - As fade, shortly tap blink once, then keep jumping while holding forward key. Holding down crouch too will stop you from hitting you head on doorways and such. Tap blink once and again if you start losing speed.

    - Skulks still have the walljumping mechanic, but you'll want to jump while passing by a wall or object (close enough so you can actually make contact and jump from it, but not too close so you won't get stuck on it and lose speed) and then keep jumping while pressing forward key. The more wall jumps you chain together like this, the faster you'll go. Important is not to make any sharp sudden turns, as that will cause you to lose speed. Try to make slow gentle turns/adjustments as much as possible.

    Once you got that under control, try to mix some strafejumping in there.
  • Zomb3hZomb3h Join Date: 2011-01-27 Member: 79241Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2013
    So many complaints about the fade, give it time, it is much better now.

    It will take you time to get used to it, but overall it has a higher skill ceiling, instead of just randomly SS'ing in the heat of battle you have to use your brain.
    Not only that, but you have to learn to pick and choose your battles.
    One good fade will still destroy pub games.

    The absence of momentum turns the Fade from a Shadow-Step wonder, to an adrenaline-induced blink spamming machine. If anything, the cost of the adrenaline shouldn't be so damn high if it's the only means of dodging and maneuvering.

    Shadow Step is even more useless considering you drop like your ankles were strapped to a sack o' bricks. Anyone with good timing and aim can destroy a Fade dumb enough to do that mid-battle. I only see it useful for dodging Railguns.
  • RemiGotoRemiGoto Join Date: 2013-06-27 Member: 185715Members
    edited June 2013
    페이드의 움직임이 빨라진것<<<<<<<<<<<<페이드가 잘보이는것

    페이드가 더이상 블링크 사용중에도 안개속으로 사라지지않는다.
    알고있어?

    50res짜리 SS페이드와
    40res+카라페이스, 아드레날린(팬텀,아우라) = 50res, 250페이드

    같은 가격이지만 효율성은 더욱 떨어진다.
    마린은 많은것을 가졌지만
    카라는 많은것을 잃어버렸다. 250패치

    페이드의 움직임은 잘 보이는것보다 중요하지않아.
    빠른 속도로 적을 때릴수있지만. 페이드의 동선은 더욱 단순해졌다.

    그리고 나는 화난것 맞아.
    250 패치에 화난것도 있지만, 800시간 넘게 플레이한 게임에 실망해서 화난것

    English basic translation from Google:

    <<<<<<<<<<<< Movement will fade faster fade to visible

    Blink no longer fade into the fog does not disappear during use.
    Do you know?

    50res old SS fades
    40res + Kara paced, adrenaline (phantom, aura) = 50res, 250 Fade

    The same price, but the efficiency drops further.
    But many gajyeotji Marine
    Kara has lost a lot. 250 Patch

    Fade more important than the movement does not look good.
    Although you can beat the enemy as fast. Fade the path became more simple.

    That's right, and I will be angry.
    250 patches're angry, but disappointed in the game play more than 800 hours and is angry

    Please post in English. Thanks. -Obraxis
  • XaoXao Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174840Members
    Wait wtf, the 32p server is down???

    Where else will I play NS 1 SG and HMG with custom MT??????????????

    There's also a glitch/invisible wall down east side of nanogrind hallway leading into the double res, ns_veil, seems to happen when the infestation goes into the doorway and nearly blocks all movement.
  • AiorosAioros Join Date: 2003-03-24 Member: 14850Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2013
    Revy wrote: »
    Well there we go game died at version 250 Onos Bar signing out
    thanks god ! thats like the best part of 250

    @halfofaheaven umbra isnt an issue as long as u get 1 flamer.
    it takes you 20 + 30 res for biomass as well as another 30res for umbra upgrade and 15 res for the crag itself. (95 res) to go straight for umbra and u dont got carapace or anyother upgrade till then.
    The marin enconomy is much faster then the alien in terms of the early game. So i dont see any issues in going for a 4min AA to counter umbra on pubs or competetive.
    Umbra isnt the issue, its the alien harvester and economie being out of hand. (8 res harvesters)

    And to the balance like I said befor, change alien rts back to 10 res with the same amount of health and/or lower fade health with biomass 3 and make them only as powerful as they are now with biomass 4. there is no real need to get a second hive up befor you got fades out. All you need to do in the early game is spamm harvesters till you got the pres for fades.

    @ the fade movement
    to relearn the fade doesnt take you that long ... creat a lan server (sv_cheats 1; debugspeed) and go for it. Just watch ezekiels tutorial videos and you got the hang of it in less then a few hours. its easy to learn but diffcult to master and thats how it supposed to be.
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    edited June 2013
    "- MACs can no longer weld each other
    - multiple MACs are no longer able to weld the same target"
    Finally the spam has an end...

    "- cloaked players are always slightly visible"
    Great, now you made camo totaly useless...

    This patch is very interesting, can't wait to see all these changes. but the jp and exo at 1 cc is crazy.
  • Zomb3hZomb3h Join Date: 2011-01-27 Member: 79241Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2013
    NH_ wrote: »
    I'm a casual NS2 player and I didn't know this patch was coming out. I go to play and the entire fade play style is different. My feeling is that at this point I'd rather just learn a different game than re-learn fade. Especially if in a couple months I have to re-learn my favorite class again. I'm not looking to argue or start anything I just thought I'd share my opinion.
    Well said. I would've been happy if only the wall-jump was included. But I'm about ready to move on from this game.
  • kalakujakalakuja Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159045Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter
    Gj with the fade. So good that the no skill spam shift noskill fade is gone. Next step is to bring back metabolize so that the fades can keep the pressure.
  • RegnarebRegnareb Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62008Members, NS2 Playtester
    Price wrote: »
    "- cloaked players are always slightly visible"
    Great, now you made camo totaly useless...
    Camo? What is this? :D
  • troopstroops Wales Join Date: 2003-02-17 Member: 13664Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Everyone needs to take a step back and just play the game, the updates have been out for one day.(Although some people have been playing BTmod including me)

    There are massive changes, but their needed changes first few games i played of BTmod i hated, but guess what i played more i learnt how to play with the changes and i really enjoy them. I really enjoy commanding and with the massive alien changes i was a little nervous at trying to relearn it but the changes have added a lot and a game or two and i was right back to being find with commanding.

    Just give it a try come back in a week or two of you playing the game with a open mind then you can come on the forums and moan and i'm sure people will listen to you more constructively then.

    Also no one is saying 250 is perfect, there will be changes to this but only small tweaking with costs and such.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I'm kind of sad that the BT mod test server is gone now. It was really enjoyable with so many good players playing there sometimes.
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    Gorge's Belly Slide has been nerfed with regards to cornering. You can no longer slide around corners since you instantly lose all your speed.
  • wirywiry Join Date: 2009-05-25 Member: 67479Members
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I'm kind of sad that the BT mod test server is gone now. It was really enjoyable with so many good players playing there sometimes.

    Back to YO Clan. \o/

  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I'm kind of sad that the BT mod test server is gone now. It was really enjoyable with so many good players playing there sometimes.

    [HBZ] @ sewleks balance test

    Never forget
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