It's sad, when games can finally manage to get rid of hitboxes and have accurate hitzones on the model and than players blame the hitreg because hits between the legs aren't counting anymore.
Then it gets reverted back to the inaccurate state of the old hitboxes to keep the old feeling.
Don't think the bullet trace radius was a necessary change. Potentially problematic, impedes future diagnosis of real hit reg problems, and doesn't solve root causes.
If the arguement is that 0.1 to 0.2 is so small as not to be a big concern, then the question is why change it at all. Would prefer to see other long needed fixes first such as correct lmg spread, better animations, and actual hit reg fixes.
However 0.2 seems small enough of an increase that i only disagree with the approach from a more theorycraft standpoint. Don't think at this level it's anything to worry about. Still small enough not to solve any real animation problems. The gaps between skulk legs and variability in other things like biting body animations are obviously a bit bigger than 1.8 ingame cm at ~interp bite ranges.
Regarding the hitreg changes, I would be interested to what people think about how many shots they are hitting now. Do you feel like your hitting shots that you are missing? It was easy to kill skulks before, but now i feel that there is little challenge, and it feels like all the positives from the movement changes just make this worse, your much more predictable and easy to shoot.
This is difficult to evaluate as people always overestimate their own skill level, but personally I feel that this change makes too many shots hit, and overall will only make the early game brutal for aliens.
The same could be said for you, mr let me solo an exosuit as a fade, but lets not turn this into a warzone. The point is, bullets miss on skulks when we're hitting them on our screen, but due to model twitching a bullet can do something such as "pass" a skulk body part by the smallest amount, hence why this cone fix makes us hit our shots. Even as a skulk I could tell I was being shot more because of this change, but I was still able to get my job done (especially adding bhop into my combat) see, it's a team game so as skulks we should initiate the marines in groups, multiple targets for them to hit and eventually they'll have to reload and we should win the initiation (most of the time) but if you enter a battle alone vs two rines and get smashed, and then simply say.. oh it's too easy for marines to hit, cause now those shots would have been misses, I disagree.
The only thing that I ever felt had a large problem, was getting a shotgun on a warping fade, I feel so many times during a shadowstep or blink, the shot will just "half ass" hit the fade, but I think that's more because of the fast movement and the game not updating quick enough
Sewlek said it was nothing but a line, he added some double consistency check which seems to be the main part of the improvement, then we tried 0.4, 0.3, and now I believe it's 0.2 (I don't think the vanilla game has any value) again I can be corrected if wrong just remembering off my head. I thought the changes were pretty good to be honest, it also "felt" good, which is a good thing. However a few players disagreed with it and it was reverted lower.. I still think this all needs to be tested in an ORGANIZED 6v6 before they all complain about what happened in a 12v12
Anyway, trying to remember everything off the top of my head
Bugs: this may or may not have been fixed, I don't know, you're crazy and fix stuff mid-game
1) Onos cannot crouch and jump, and if he's crouched then jump, he will go into standing position. This causes him to get stuck behind team mate clogs/and get stuck on ledges (veil, above system waypointing the opposite direction of nano grid, there's a straight hallway as soon as you enter there's a box on your right and a ledge, fall down that ledge as an onos and you can't get back up without team mates help. Same for marine, your only option is to go through the vent)
2) Echoing an egg with a Tres lifeform, will cause it so you cannot enter that egg
3) Onos sprint doesn't work with celerity, now that onos moves faster, the sprint doesn't seem to give any type of boost
4) Skulk leap in bhop doesn't accelerate because you're already topping the speed HOWEVER I don't think this needs to be changed, because leap still works fine in combat (which it should) and can help get your momentum up when starting a bhop or making a very sharp turn
5) Babblers on an alien cause it so the alien cannot attack anything
6) When a mac is set to follow & weld a marine, they will block the marines FOV by standing in their face and also bullets cannot go through the mac, causing shots to be missed
7) When you're an onos, sometimes your melee attack doesn't hit a structure, or when they're say two onos attacking a power node, your attack won't go through because it thinks you're hitting your team mate onos instead of the node, I believe you need to get really close and angle your melee a certain way for it to go through (this sounds like it would be hard to fix)
8) GORGEgous doesn't miss shotgun shots on my lerk, causes me to not nomnomnom marines as lerk, must be fixed asap
9) Some alien structures lose all their hp but don't die, and randomly get some hp back
10) When you send whips to move in a group, it seems that only one of them goes at a time
Feature request:
1) Buy menus for both marines and aliens
Alien example: abilities are hotkeyed 1-6, so say it's celerity/adrenaline/phantom/aura/regen/carapace would be 1-6, so i'd spawn, hit b + 1 + 3 + 6 + enter = and I'd begin evolving into celerity/phantom/carapace
Marine example: Everything in order of the armory/prototype lab
1 = mines , 2 = welder , 3 = shotgun , = 4 nade launcher, 5 = flamethrower and etc, same goes for proto lab. This will shorten buy time and make it fun, cause I love just rapidly buying stuff lol
2) Make parasite not last forever on structures, I'm not sure, I just feel weird that parasite lasts forever on something like a command chair, the team knows it's there once you see it, so why have bugs running along it the whole time
3) Possibly lower jetpack fuel, I feel like it should be equal to a fade shadowstep spamming to flee, so you can chase but only for so long (skulks really can't touch you if you're jet packing) I mean I really don't want lower fuel, but it probably makes sense balance wise
4) Maybe give skulks a bit more air control (see what others say and what you think) cause if you're going for a marine and they jump over you, the distance that just happened causes you to not be able to get back to that marine (you'll die before it happens) if we had more air control we could 180 snap and head back for the marine as soon as the jump occurs
Sewlek said it was nothing but a line, he added some double consistency check which seems to be the main part of the improvement, then we tried 0.4, 0.3, and now I believe it's 0.2 (I don't think the vanilla game has any value) again I can be corrected if wrong just remembering off my head. I thought the changes were pretty good to be honest, it also "felt" good, which is a good thing. However a few players disagreed with it and it was reverted lower.. I still think this all needs to be tested in an ORGANIZED 6v6 before they all complain about what happened in a 12v12
So is it a Trace with a thickness now or multiple Traces within the radius?
From what I know, NonZeroExtentTraces work by having their extent projected as axis aligned box (non-axis aligned would probably be much more intense to compute) through the world to see if it hits geometry, so depending on the angle you are shooting from relative to the world axis, your shot might end up with slightly different sizes (a shot from a 45 degreee angle relative to a world axis would have a diameter of 1.4142 * a (the diagonal of a uniform cube via Pythagoras) while an axis aligned shot would have a diameter of a (the side length of a uniform cube).
Sewlek said it was nothing but a line, he added some double consistency check which seems to be the main part of the improvement, then we tried 0.4, 0.3, and now I believe it's 0.2 (I don't think the vanilla game has any value) again I can be corrected if wrong just remembering off my head. I thought the changes were pretty good to be honest, it also "felt" good, which is a good thing. However a few players disagreed with it and it was reverted lower.. I still think this all needs to be tested in an ORGANIZED 6v6 before they all complain about what happened in a 12v12
So is it a Trace with a thickness now or multiple Traces within the radius?
From what I know, NonZeroExtentTraces work by having their extent projected as axis aligned box (non-axis aligned would probably be much more intense to compute) through the world to see if it hits geometry, so depending on the angle you are shooting from relative to the world axis, your shot might end up with slightly different sizes (a shot from a 45 degreee angle relative to a world axis would have a diameter of 1.4142 * a (the diagonal of a uniform cube via Pythagoras) while an axis aligned shot would have a diameter of a (the side length of a uniform cube).
In a 6v6 this mod would be walk to hive and spawncamp, there is no debating that currently. You would need to give people a reasonable amount of time to learn the movement before any reasonable game could be had, which any comp team is simply not going to do currently. The point stands that it was still easy enough to hit skulks, there was no reason to make it easier by effectively making every single alien hitbox in the game bigger. If the skulk wasnt already huge I might not have a problem with this change, but given how large the skulk is, it already makes very close range shots hard to miss, and this change makes it even harder. My biggest problem with this change is the impact on the very close range shots.
If you actually took the time to listen to what I said in game instead of spewing nonsense, my problem with the exo is not that a fade cannot solo it, its the fact that as a fade, you cannot even engage an decent exo. It simply does way too much damage, especially considering that this mod actually BUFFS exos, and makes them cheaper. Fighting a unit which can kill your 500 pres lifeform in 14 bullets is far from fun.
I haven't got to play the mod recently, but from what I gather weapon and armor upgrades are tied to CC amount. I want to say, if true, I Absolutely love this. I suggested this to my inner circle of friends/old teammates awhile back and am very excited to see it implemented. I hope to get in game after this last tax day and expand on this feedback and other changes.
sidenote: i also would like to note how I as a consumer appreciate this thread and the mod.
It's sad, when games can finally manage to get rid of hitboxes and have accurate hitzones on the model and than players blame the hitreg because hits between the legs aren't counting anymore.
Then it gets reverted back to the inaccurate state of the old hitboxes to keep the old feeling.
Well maybe a game is better off as an abstract simulation of simple geometric shapes (boxes and lines) and not as a photo-realistic physically accurate simulation. It's kind of funny that games almost simulate two parallel realities, one for the gameplay, and one for the graphics. After playing for a while the player
can often get a feel for the abstract simulation that is hidden behind the graphics.
It's sad, when games can finally manage to get rid of hitboxes and have accurate hitzones on the model and than players blame the hitreg because hits between the legs aren't counting anymore.
Then it gets reverted back to the inaccurate state of the old hitboxes to keep the old feeling.
Well maybe a game is better off as an abstract simulation of simple geometric shapes (boxes and lines) and not as a photo-realistic physically accurate simulation. It's kind of funny that games almost simulate two parallel realities, one for the gameplay, and one for the graphics. After playing for a while the player
can often get a feel for the abstract simulation that is hidden behind the graphics.
Mhh... fair enough. But this change does look like a step back technically.
If you actually took the time to listen to what I said in game instead of spewing nonsense, my problem with the exo is not that a fade cannot solo it, its the fact that as a fade, you cannot even engage an decent exo. It simply does way too much damage, especially considering that this mod actually BUFFS exos, and makes them cheaper. Fighting a unit which can kill your 500 pres lifeform in 14 bullets is far from fun.
I'd actually like to see the exo damage toned down and some of the restrictions lifted, notably adding back the ability to build and weld (claw exo only). This would need some additional art though to communicate it to the player like the hand morphing to a welding tool or some such.
The biggest problem with the exo in vanilla is that it is so limited and expensive despite being a powerhouse. The mod nerfed it some to drop the cost which is awesome, but it is still pretty ludicrous and still a big liability if you die as one. We tried lifting the phase restriction but that didn't work well and I think it is time to take a look at letting them weld/build like the HA of yore could. Hell you could even have them use a rebalanced welder so exos welding is worse than the PRes welder from the armory.
In a 6v6 this mod would be walk to hive and spawncamp, there is no debating that currently. You would need to give people a reasonable amount of time to learn the movement before any reasonable game could be had, which any comp team is simply not going to do currently. The point stands that it was still easy enough to hit skulks, there was no reason to make it easier by effectively making every single alien hitbox in the game bigger. If the skulk wasnt already huge I might not have a problem with this change, but given how large the skulk is, it already makes very close range shots hard to miss, and this change makes it even harder. My biggest problem with this change is the impact on the very close range shots.
If you actually took the time to listen to what I said in game instead of spewing nonsense, my problem with the exo is not that a fade cannot solo it, its the fact that as a fade, you cannot even engage an decent exo. It simply does way too much damage, especially considering that this mod actually BUFFS exos, and makes them cheaper. Fighting a unit which can kill your 500 pres lifeform in 14 bullets is far from fun.
yeah that point about the exo is so true. exo vs fade is so extreme it's almost like marine vs babbler.
i think exo's should have greatly reduced dps or accuracy. the value for money should be in defense - protecting marines; not the ability to kill a fade, onos and hive in 1.33 seconds.
What is the counter argument to bring Exo DPS (vs Lifeforms) down to a reasonable level and decrease the costs of the Exo at the same time? So that they don't feel like the end-game-death-robot but like an HMG-Heavy-Marine?
Exo damage and health has already been nerfed through the upgrade changes. Remains to be seen if that compensates for the cost reduction.
Yeah, but it's damage now scales with upgrades eventually making it more powerful than it is in live. As above I'd like to see it nerfed further with other compensations. Depending on how it plays out the pres cost maybe could be dropped a tad more.
In a 6v6 this mod would be walk to hive and spawncamp, there is no debating that currently. You would need to give people a reasonable amount of time to learn the movement before any reasonable game could be had, which any comp team is simply not going to do currently. The point stands that it was still easy enough to hit skulks, there was no reason to make it easier by effectively making every single alien hitbox in the game bigger. If the skulk wasnt already huge I might not have a problem with this change, but given how large the skulk is, it already makes very close range shots hard to miss, and this change makes it even harder. My biggest problem with this change is the impact on the very close range shots.
If you actually took the time to listen to what I said in game instead of spewing nonsense, my problem with the exo is not that a fade cannot solo it, its the fact that as a fade, you cannot even engage an decent exo. It simply does way too much damage, especially considering that this mod actually BUFFS exos, and makes them cheaper. Fighting a unit which can kill your 500 pres lifeform in 14 bullets is far from fun.
There goes a much better post
Ok so agree, at VERY CLOSE range a marine will for sure be putting an extra bullet or two into a skulk which may be unintentional (however adding the double check improved it without changing any of the size, or so that's what I'm thinking) so that is an issue
You did engage me as a fade, and you got in two or so swipes before dying, the hp overall is lower on the exo. Since we're able to get them earlier than before (however they aren't doing nutty damage until 3 com chairs, at which point the aliens should be getting close to losing) I could see a minor reduction in damage, but lets turn the tables around
When you're a marine with a jetpack and a shotgun, and you engage a decent onos by yourself, can you really engage that onos? Sure you'll shoot him a bit flying around, once your out of fuel you're dead in 2-3 hits. Have no jetpack and you're just dead probably getting in one or two shots. The same occured with the fade v exo (especially since the engage was in a very open area (cafeteria on docking, where all favors are on my side)
So are the two really so different? Besides onos being close range and having more health, an onos fighting a dual exo at a close range encounter will favor the onos still (although your hp will be very low)
And they're both costing the 750 pres for both players. And the marine com cannot drop a TRes dualie, while the alien com can drop an TRes onos without any hive requirement
On the 6v6, ok I get it teams will only practice on the current version, doesn't mean the good players currently playing BT can't organize a 6v6, since we've been playing it a lot, we understand it and should lead to a good example of how it would pan out in a match. I really can't see an egg lock happening immediately (and he already toned down the .04 cone whatever thing) so pick a date and a time that everyone can agree on and we'll do a match (and balance the teams) and play a few rounds/maps while sewlek spectates to collect info. Because he really needs to see it in action to make proper changes
Exo damage is buffed with W3, and is only nerfed on the lower weapon upgrades. Even on w0 an exo would kill a fade in ~18 bullets, which is still crazy.
Exo damage is buffed with W3, and is only nerfed on the lower weapon upgrades. Even on w0 an exo would kill a fade in ~18 bullets, which is still crazy.
An onos kills a marine in 2 hits, crazy. I get your point, but you keep coming back to wanting to be able to take on the strongest marine lifeform with the second strongest alien life form, if a team initiation happens against a solo exo, he can only do so much damage before overheating and then dying (not to mention you go down very fast being attacked by 3+ aliens)
If you enter a room as a fade, and an exo is the first thing you see in the distance, I'd blink backwards and get the hell out of there, notify the team, then engage at close encounters with the team. I wouldn't shadowstep towards him to try and take him on, same as a marine, I wouldn't be like, oh hey an onos and he's all alone, let me chase him with my 200 pres shotgun and 150 pres jetpack so I can lose them both
How often do you really see an exo come out besides in public matches? Not much, but with the changes they may start to come out, and it will require teamwork to take one down just like it requires teamwork with marines to take down an onos. I think it's being done right
Having onos and exo be both so powerful is dull for gameplay. They are the two most boring roles to play, and to fight. Gone is the fun from fighting fade vs jp, onos vs exo is just a slugfest of camping corners and watching HP numbers. Part of the goal was to make exos more useable so that they would actually see use in comp games, just disregarding the problems and saying 'eh, it works' is a crappy solution long term, and does nothing to fix the onos explosion that aliens can always overwhelm marines with. And as I said before, I am not saying a fade should solo an exo, but a fade shouldnt need to get half his team to come with him to kill a single marine. I do not think the onos is in a good state, but with a jetpack you can generally avoid an onos (much more room dependant). In the correct room, an exo can make itself all but unkillable.
A single decent dual exo can shut down like 3 fades at the same time. I think that might be a sign of too much damage.
The only things that counter exo right now with any certainty are drifter spam hp tanks and any kind of visual obstruction i.e. purple blink, bilebomb, bullet impact smoke, you get the idea. Both of which are problems of their own (insane drifter hp, insane ammount of vision block).
Comments
Then it gets reverted back to the inaccurate state of the old hitboxes to keep the old feeling.
I'm all for aiming at the ground between the aliens' feet to hit their box.
If the arguement is that 0.1 to 0.2 is so small as not to be a big concern, then the question is why change it at all. Would prefer to see other long needed fixes first such as correct lmg spread, better animations, and actual hit reg fixes.
However 0.2 seems small enough of an increase that i only disagree with the approach from a more theorycraft standpoint. Don't think at this level it's anything to worry about. Still small enough not to solve any real animation problems. The gaps between skulk legs and variability in other things like biting body animations are obviously a bit bigger than 1.8 ingame cm at ~interp bite ranges.
If you do know any real hitreg issue, submit a video of it.
I doubt it.
The same could be said for you, mr let me solo an exosuit as a fade, but lets not turn this into a warzone. The point is, bullets miss on skulks when we're hitting them on our screen, but due to model twitching a bullet can do something such as "pass" a skulk body part by the smallest amount, hence why this cone fix makes us hit our shots. Even as a skulk I could tell I was being shot more because of this change, but I was still able to get my job done (especially adding bhop into my combat) see, it's a team game so as skulks we should initiate the marines in groups, multiple targets for them to hit and eventually they'll have to reload and we should win the initiation (most of the time) but if you enter a battle alone vs two rines and get smashed, and then simply say.. oh it's too easy for marines to hit, cause now those shots would have been misses, I disagree.
The only thing that I ever felt had a large problem, was getting a shotgun on a warping fade, I feel so many times during a shadowstep or blink, the shot will just "half ass" hit the fade, but I think that's more because of the fast movement and the game not updating quick enough
Sewlek said it was nothing but a line, he added some double consistency check which seems to be the main part of the improvement, then we tried 0.4, 0.3, and now I believe it's 0.2 (I don't think the vanilla game has any value) again I can be corrected if wrong just remembering off my head. I thought the changes were pretty good to be honest, it also "felt" good, which is a good thing. However a few players disagreed with it and it was reverted lower.. I still think this all needs to be tested in an ORGANIZED 6v6 before they all complain about what happened in a 12v12
perfect hitboxes ≠ bigger hitboxes or bigger bullets
i know it all comes down to balance etc, but skulks were incredibly easy to hit before... therefore it's a very unusual change to make it easier.
Bugs: this may or may not have been fixed, I don't know, you're crazy and fix stuff mid-game
1) Onos cannot crouch and jump, and if he's crouched then jump, he will go into standing position. This causes him to get stuck behind team mate clogs/and get stuck on ledges (veil, above system waypointing the opposite direction of nano grid, there's a straight hallway as soon as you enter there's a box on your right and a ledge, fall down that ledge as an onos and you can't get back up without team mates help. Same for marine, your only option is to go through the vent)
2) Echoing an egg with a Tres lifeform, will cause it so you cannot enter that egg
3) Onos sprint doesn't work with celerity, now that onos moves faster, the sprint doesn't seem to give any type of boost
4) Skulk leap in bhop doesn't accelerate because you're already topping the speed HOWEVER I don't think this needs to be changed, because leap still works fine in combat (which it should) and can help get your momentum up when starting a bhop or making a very sharp turn
5) Babblers on an alien cause it so the alien cannot attack anything
6) When a mac is set to follow & weld a marine, they will block the marines FOV by standing in their face and also bullets cannot go through the mac, causing shots to be missed
7) When you're an onos, sometimes your melee attack doesn't hit a structure, or when they're say two onos attacking a power node, your attack won't go through because it thinks you're hitting your team mate onos instead of the node, I believe you need to get really close and angle your melee a certain way for it to go through (this sounds like it would be hard to fix)
8) GORGEgous doesn't miss shotgun shots on my lerk, causes me to not nomnomnom marines as lerk, must be fixed asap
9) Some alien structures lose all their hp but don't die, and randomly get some hp back
10) When you send whips to move in a group, it seems that only one of them goes at a time
Feature request:
1) Buy menus for both marines and aliens
Alien example: abilities are hotkeyed 1-6, so say it's celerity/adrenaline/phantom/aura/regen/carapace would be 1-6, so i'd spawn, hit b + 1 + 3 + 6 + enter = and I'd begin evolving into celerity/phantom/carapace
Marine example: Everything in order of the armory/prototype lab
1 = mines , 2 = welder , 3 = shotgun , = 4 nade launcher, 5 = flamethrower and etc, same goes for proto lab. This will shorten buy time and make it fun, cause I love just rapidly buying stuff lol
2) Make parasite not last forever on structures, I'm not sure, I just feel weird that parasite lasts forever on something like a command chair, the team knows it's there once you see it, so why have bugs running along it the whole time
3) Possibly lower jetpack fuel, I feel like it should be equal to a fade shadowstep spamming to flee, so you can chase but only for so long (skulks really can't touch you if you're jet packing) I mean I really don't want lower fuel, but it probably makes sense balance wise
4) Maybe give skulks a bit more air control (see what others say and what you think) cause if you're going for a marine and they jump over you, the distance that just happened causes you to not be able to get back to that marine (you'll die before it happens) if we had more air control we could 180 snap and head back for the marine as soon as the jump occurs
So is it a Trace with a thickness now or multiple Traces within the radius?
From what I know, NonZeroExtentTraces work by having their extent projected as axis aligned box (non-axis aligned would probably be much more intense to compute) through the world to see if it hits geometry, so depending on the angle you are shooting from relative to the world axis, your shot might end up with slightly different sizes (a shot from a 45 degreee angle relative to a world axis would have a diameter of 1.4142 * a (the diagonal of a uniform cube via Pythagoras) while an axis aligned shot would have a diameter of a (the side length of a uniform cube).
No idea what you just said
If you actually took the time to listen to what I said in game instead of spewing nonsense, my problem with the exo is not that a fade cannot solo it, its the fact that as a fade, you cannot even engage an decent exo. It simply does way too much damage, especially considering that this mod actually BUFFS exos, and makes them cheaper. Fighting a unit which can kill your 500 pres lifeform in 14 bullets is far from fun.
sidenote: i also would like to note how I as a consumer appreciate this thread and the mod.
Well maybe a game is better off as an abstract simulation of simple geometric shapes (boxes and lines) and not as a photo-realistic physically accurate simulation. It's kind of funny that games almost simulate two parallel realities, one for the gameplay, and one for the graphics. After playing for a while the player
can often get a feel for the abstract simulation that is hidden behind the graphics.
Mhh... fair enough. But this change does look like a step back technically.
I'd actually like to see the exo damage toned down and some of the restrictions lifted, notably adding back the ability to build and weld (claw exo only). This would need some additional art though to communicate it to the player like the hand morphing to a welding tool or some such.
The biggest problem with the exo in vanilla is that it is so limited and expensive despite being a powerhouse. The mod nerfed it some to drop the cost which is awesome, but it is still pretty ludicrous and still a big liability if you die as one. We tried lifting the phase restriction but that didn't work well and I think it is time to take a look at letting them weld/build like the HA of yore could. Hell you could even have them use a rebalanced welder so exos welding is worse than the PRes welder from the armory.
yeah that point about the exo is so true. exo vs fade is so extreme it's almost like marine vs babbler.
i think exo's should have greatly reduced dps or accuracy. the value for money should be in defense - protecting marines; not the ability to kill a fade, onos and hive in 1.33 seconds.
Yeah, but it's damage now scales with upgrades eventually making it more powerful than it is in live. As above I'd like to see it nerfed further with other compensations. Depending on how it plays out the pres cost maybe could be dropped a tad more.
DISCLAIMER: Frontiersmen Inc. can not be held liable for any differences in bullet size that are caused by the direction you fire the bullet at.
There goes a much better post
Ok so agree, at VERY CLOSE range a marine will for sure be putting an extra bullet or two into a skulk which may be unintentional (however adding the double check improved it without changing any of the size, or so that's what I'm thinking) so that is an issue
You did engage me as a fade, and you got in two or so swipes before dying, the hp overall is lower on the exo. Since we're able to get them earlier than before (however they aren't doing nutty damage until 3 com chairs, at which point the aliens should be getting close to losing) I could see a minor reduction in damage, but lets turn the tables around
When you're a marine with a jetpack and a shotgun, and you engage a decent onos by yourself, can you really engage that onos? Sure you'll shoot him a bit flying around, once your out of fuel you're dead in 2-3 hits. Have no jetpack and you're just dead probably getting in one or two shots. The same occured with the fade v exo (especially since the engage was in a very open area (cafeteria on docking, where all favors are on my side)
So are the two really so different? Besides onos being close range and having more health, an onos fighting a dual exo at a close range encounter will favor the onos still (although your hp will be very low)
And they're both costing the 750 pres for both players. And the marine com cannot drop a TRes dualie, while the alien com can drop an TRes onos without any hive requirement
On the 6v6, ok I get it teams will only practice on the current version, doesn't mean the good players currently playing BT can't organize a 6v6, since we've been playing it a lot, we understand it and should lead to a good example of how it would pan out in a match. I really can't see an egg lock happening immediately (and he already toned down the .04 cone whatever thing) so pick a date and a time that everyone can agree on and we'll do a match (and balance the teams) and play a few rounds/maps while sewlek spectates to collect info. Because he really needs to see it in action to make proper changes
An onos kills a marine in 2 hits, crazy. I get your point, but you keep coming back to wanting to be able to take on the strongest marine lifeform with the second strongest alien life form, if a team initiation happens against a solo exo, he can only do so much damage before overheating and then dying (not to mention you go down very fast being attacked by 3+ aliens)
If you enter a room as a fade, and an exo is the first thing you see in the distance, I'd blink backwards and get the hell out of there, notify the team, then engage at close encounters with the team. I wouldn't shadowstep towards him to try and take him on, same as a marine, I wouldn't be like, oh hey an onos and he's all alone, let me chase him with my 200 pres shotgun and 150 pres jetpack so I can lose them both
How often do you really see an exo come out besides in public matches? Not much, but with the changes they may start to come out, and it will require teamwork to take one down just like it requires teamwork with marines to take down an onos. I think it's being done right
edit: Also an exo takes more aim than an onos
The only things that counter exo right now with any certainty are drifter spam hp tanks and any kind of visual obstruction i.e. purple blink, bilebomb, bullet impact smoke, you get the idea. Both of which are problems of their own (insane drifter hp, insane ammount of vision block).