IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited March 2013
And everyone said my assumption of it not being polling was crazy :-P
Something is running in the background or Windows is being a busy bee. That message is a low level Windows function according to a dev.
Its important to note I've never seen that before (just like Scardybob hasn't) so its very uncommon. Try creating another user account, restart and log onto it, install ns2 and try it.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
AHA.. WINDOWS!.
I know more about digging through that then NS2. hehehe.
go to http://www.sysinternals.com. (You get redirected to MS technet)
Download process explorer. It shows much much more of what your computer is actively running + has a small history in each graph.
Check which process or processes are using most cpu power.
If its interrupts, go check hardware and drivers. Start with the harddisk
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
I love process and file explorer
It's just not user friendly.. so be sure to tell it to ignore/hide anything occurring during idle so you can see what's ran during ns2 only
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Why would you want that? If something in windows is lagging him, we want all the info.
A shiny way to find this out.. in the top right is the cpu graph.. click it open. maximize.
Your screen is now filled with the graph. The graph slowly moves to the left, so basicly that is your cpu history.
Hover with your mouse over the graph to see what the most cpu intensive process was.
creating another user account, restart and log onto it, install ns2 and try it.
Do you mean I should create a new Steam - Account? Because i won't be able to activate the game on a different account even if it is already installed, if i recall correctly
go to http://www.sysinternals.com. (You get redirected to MS technet)
Download process explorer. It shows much much more of what your computer is actively running + has a small history in each graph.
Check which process or processes are using most cpu power.
If its interrupts, go check hardware and drivers. Start with the harddisk
downloaded and installed it. But still I wonder how come i can play Battlefield 3 fluently and
with NS2 my Computer seems pretty busy, although its on the lowest settings + resolution...
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
you have a lot opened.
In process explorer is a tree option. You can see what opens what then.
Although bob may be up to something here.
A big reason many other games do not produce problems is because it is rare to find a game which is so hevae on the CPU as NS2 is. If there is a cpu issue, ns2 will find out. hehe
BEst to run NS2 a bit and tab out to process explorer just after a spike.
okay, killed the KhalScroll.exe, giving it another try
interesting, coming to think about it, in swtor, the camera was incredibly fast, although all the camera/mouse settings were on low... at that time, i already was using the logitech scroll - thingy
hmm okay, did not really help, i tried on highest graphics and highest resolution and it was a lot better than before but still impossible to aim... gotta go now, i'll upload a vid tomorrow
here's the Graph, tabbed out directly after i tried to kill someone, failed miserably and died so at that time there were many lag spikes, caused by the aiming
In the past two weeks I finally made the switch from mx518 to the replacement g400.. glad I did!
You're going to get yourself a lot of hate mail saying anything's better than the 518, Ironhorse. I've never heard of polling rate affecting CPU, but I'm going to go test this with my Razer mamba tonight, which I usually leave at it's maximum rate because why not. Would hate to learn my low fps is due not to my CPU/GPU, but my mouse.
Spaceforkz, because you're seeing the same issue at any resolution, please make another video at a size that won't cut off the statistics. At least 1280X800, preferably better, so that it can be seen.
I love process and file explorer
It's just not user friendly.. so be sure to tell it to ignore/hide anything occurring during idle so you can see what's ran during ns2 only
Spaceforkz, because you're seeing the same issue at any resolution, please make another video at a size that won't cut off the statistics. At least 1280X800, preferably better, so that it can be seen.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Nonononono.
ALMOST correct. When you have that graph, hover with your mouse over the peaks. It shows what executable was being busy.
Im most interested in the red spikes as red is stuff running in kernel mode.
Also, it'd be useful to post a screenshot of peaks in both the CPU and I/O tabs of that Process Explorer graph.
The issue with NS2 is that it puts much more strain on your CPU than most other games out there. For example, most games are typically limited by the power of your GPU, such that if you have programs running in the background that use extra CPU cycle, it has little to no impact on your in-game fps. However, in NS2, its the other way around, such that most people are bottlenecked by their CPU. Now, these background programs that are typically harmless when it comes to gaming performance can cause huge lag problems in NS2. What we need to do is to track down which program and/or driver is eating up CPU cycles when your using your mouse and disable it (or find an alternative).
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Shame @ScardyBoB
Didn't you read my post telling him to get that program? because yes it is awsome!
The whole technet of sysinternals is full of awsome programs. (free hint, if you know how to do it, setting symbols in process explorer gives you even more options like even checking the threads per executable and seeing which thread does what)
So technicly its not only possible to see if the cpu spike he means is NS2 or a other program.. you may even be able to find out what the exact thread is causing the problem. Great isnt it?
Shame @ScardyBoB
Didn't you read my post telling him to get that program? because yes it is awsome!
The whole technet of sysinternals is full of awsome programs. (free hint, if you know how to do it, setting symbols in process explorer gives you even more options like even checking the threads per executable and seeing which thread does what)
lol, total brainfart on my part. Trying to keep track of so many tech support threads that I'm missing important info.
okay, wow, so awesome that you guyz answer so fast
somethings wrong with either youtube or my internet connetion, it takes f**** ages to upload a 30 sec video, checked on speedtest.net, it shows me the usual speed, so i guess its youtube, ill keep on trying
Nonononono.
ALMOST correct. When you have that graph, hover with your mouse over the peaks. It shows what executable was being busy.
Im most interested in the red spikes as red is stuff running in kernel mode.
im stupid, of course thats what you need doing nothing, the most using program is the actual program itself and while playing NS2 it's NS2, so that doesn't really help...
The issue with NS2 is that it puts much more strain on your CPU than most other games out there. For example, most games are typically limited by the power of your GPU, such that if you have programs running in the background that use extra CPU cycle, it has little to no impact on your in-game fps. However, in NS2, its the other way around, such that most people are bottlenecked by their CPU. Now, these background programs that are typically harmless when it comes to gaming performance can cause huge lag problems in NS2. What we need to do is to track down which program and/or driver is eating up CPU cycles when your using your mouse and disable it (or find an alternative).
okay, sounds legit, im thinking about recording a vid of the graph directly after tabbing out of NS, will do as soon as Youtube takes normal times to upload a tiny 30sec video
AMD Phenom II X6 1075T @ 3 GHz
8GB DDR2 RAM
Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870
With this mouse in particular:
MadCatz R.A.T. 5
(This also runs at a 1000 Hz "Dynamic" polling rate)
yo dude, good to find someone with the same problem, we need to find something we have in common, now... you specs are quite a lot better than mine, so im not so sure it's the problem... really hope we can solve this
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
trying windowed mode sounds a ok choice to test on.
Did you check the RED spike, if a red one is happening? And when NS2 lags is the biggest part of the spike red or green?
I've been doing some extensive research on this, and below are some things for the people having this issue to look at:
On Screen Display Programs - If you are running this type of program ('Gamer OSD' or "Smart Doctor' for ASUS Mobo;s), disable or uninstall them.
nVidia Graphics - Try disabling Nividia Display Manager or nView Desktop Manager.
MSI Afterburner or EVGA Precision - Try disabling or uninstalling.
Ambient Occlusion - Try disabling/turning off.
Run NS2 in Administrator Mode.
@Spacefork - Have you done anything recently with your display drivers? What about your mouse drivers? Which mouse are you using, and is it wired or wireless? Have you tried a different mouse?
What the polling rate is set to makes a difference especially when you're getting lag or mouse stuttering. Aside from that, I don't really know what else to suggest other than what I researched.
I've been doing some extensive research on this, and below are some things for the people having this issue to look at:
On Screen Display Programs - If you are running this type of program ('Gamer OSD' or "Smart Doctor' for ASUS Mobo;s), disable or uninstall them.
nVidia Graphics - Try disabling Nividia Display Manager or nView Desktop Manager.
MSI Afterburner or EVGA Precision - Try disabling or uninstalling.
Ambient Occlusion - Try disabling/turning off.
Run NS2 in Administrator Mode.
I use Iobit's Advanced System Care 6 Ultimate, no other programs, have an AMD card, don't even know what MSI or EVGA do , as NS2 runs over steam and steam uses Webapps, i don't think its possible to run it as Admin
@Spacefork - Have you done anything recently with your display drivers? What about your mouse drivers? Which mouse are you using, and is it wired or wireless? Have you tried a different mouse?
Could be that i updated my graphics card driver, which mouse I am using, the whole first page of this thread is about my mouse, just check there, should answer all your question.
What the polling rate is set to makes a difference especially when you're getting lag or mouse stuttering. Aside from that, I don't really know what else to suggest other than what I researched.
Thanks for the help man We checked the polling rate, all on page 1
Comments
Your getting huge spikes from WIndow:ProcessMessages. I'll see if I can get some info on why this may be happening.
Something is running in the background or Windows is being a busy bee. That message is a low level Windows function according to a dev.
Its important to note I've never seen that before (just like Scardybob hasn't) so its very uncommon. Try creating another user account, restart and log onto it, install ns2 and try it.
I know more about digging through that then NS2. hehehe.
go to http://www.sysinternals.com. (You get redirected to MS technet)
Download process explorer. It shows much much more of what your computer is actively running + has a small history in each graph.
Check which process or processes are using most cpu power.
If its interrupts, go check hardware and drivers. Start with the harddisk
It's just not user friendly.. so be sure to tell it to ignore/hide anything occurring during idle so you can see what's ran during ns2 only
A shiny way to find this out.. in the top right is the cpu graph.. click it open. maximize.
Your screen is now filled with the graph. The graph slowly moves to the left, so basicly that is your cpu history.
Hover with your mouse over the graph to see what the most cpu intensive process was.
downloaded and installed it. But still I wonder how come i can play Battlefield 3 fluently and
with NS2 my Computer seems pretty busy, although its on the lowest settings + resolution...
Did that just now, going to try it out in a second
Yah, the lag spikes are pretty bad
Again, Thanks for the awesome support here, i feel like we're getting somewhere slowly but surely
there's the graph, no program running
img94.imageshack.us/img94/1559/alluu.jpg
all together, that big spike was chrome, that takes quite a lot but i never have it opened while playing anything
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Mice-and-Pointing-Devices/KhalScroll-exe-chewing-up-CPU/td-p/826781
http://answers.ea.com/t5/Mass-Effect-3/My-solution-to-Stuttering-Lag-problems-in-ME3/m-p/776216
I'd try forcibly closing it and then play NS2 to see if that's the source of the problem.
Edit: Also, what is the program your using to get the CPU usage/processes info?
In process explorer is a tree option. You can see what opens what then.
Although bob may be up to something here.
A big reason many other games do not produce problems is because it is rare to find a game which is so hevae on the CPU as NS2 is. If there is a cpu issue, ns2 will find out. hehe
BEst to run NS2 a bit and tab out to process explorer just after a spike.
interesting, coming to think about it, in swtor, the camera was incredibly fast, although all the camera/mouse settings were on low... at that time, i already was using the logitech scroll - thingy
here's the Graph, tabbed out directly after i tried to kill someone, failed miserably and died
AMD Phenom II X6 1075T @ 3 GHz
8GB DDR2 RAM
Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870
With this mouse in particular:
MadCatz R.A.T. 5
(This also runs at a 1000 Hz "Dynamic" polling rate)
Spaceforkz, because you're seeing the same issue at any resolution, please make another video at a size that won't cut off the statistics. At least 1280X800, preferably better, so that it can be seen.
whoops, sorry, here you go
img854.imageshack.us/img854/1315/lagspike.jpg
Mass Effect 3 works perfectly on highest graphics
I used this: technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653
sure thing, man
ALMOST correct. When you have that graph, hover with your mouse over the peaks. It shows what executable was being busy.
Im most interested in the red spikes as red is stuff running in kernel mode.
Also, it'd be useful to post a screenshot of peaks in both the CPU and I/O tabs of that Process Explorer graph.
The issue with NS2 is that it puts much more strain on your CPU than most other games out there. For example, most games are typically limited by the power of your GPU, such that if you have programs running in the background that use extra CPU cycle, it has little to no impact on your in-game fps. However, in NS2, its the other way around, such that most people are bottlenecked by their CPU. Now, these background programs that are typically harmless when it comes to gaming performance can cause huge lag problems in NS2. What we need to do is to track down which program and/or driver is eating up CPU cycles when your using your mouse and disable it (or find an alternative).
Didn't you read my post telling him to get that program? because yes it is awsome!
The whole technet of sysinternals is full of awsome programs. (free hint, if you know how to do it, setting symbols in process explorer gives you even more options like even checking the threads per executable and seeing which thread does what)
So technicly its not only possible to see if the cpu spike he means is NS2 or a other program.. you may even be able to find out what the exact thread is causing the problem. Great isnt it?
somethings wrong with either youtube or my internet connetion, it takes f**** ages to upload a 30 sec video, checked on speedtest.net, it shows me the usual speed, so i guess its youtube, ill keep on trying
okay, sounds legit, im thinking about recording a vid of the graph directly after tabbing out of NS, will do as soon as Youtube takes normal times to upload a tiny 30sec video
but thanks for the help
yo dude, good to find someone with the same problem, we need to find something we have in common, now... you specs are quite a lot better than mine, so im not so sure it's the problem... really hope we can solve this
Did you check the RED spike, if a red one is happening? And when NS2 lags is the biggest part of the spike red or green?
On Screen Display Programs - If you are running this type of program ('Gamer OSD' or "Smart Doctor' for ASUS Mobo;s), disable or uninstall them.
nVidia Graphics - Try disabling Nividia Display Manager or nView Desktop Manager.
MSI Afterburner or EVGA Precision - Try disabling or uninstalling.
Ambient Occlusion - Try disabling/turning off.
Run NS2 in Administrator Mode.
@Spacefork - Have you done anything recently with your display drivers? What about your mouse drivers? Which mouse are you using, and is it wired or wireless? Have you tried a different mouse?
What the polling rate is set to makes a difference especially when you're getting lag or mouse stuttering. Aside from that, I don't really know what else to suggest other than what I researched.
Could be that i updated my graphics card driver, which mouse I am using, the whole first page of this thread is about my mouse, just check there, should answer all your question.
Thanks for the help man