Get rid of camo - add stealth

Metal HandkerchiefMetal Handkerchief Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168697Members
Pretty much everyone agrees that Camo is less than useless.

How about you replace camo with 'stealth' which avoids showing up on scans instead.

Comments

  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Someone had the idea to combine Camo and Silence into one ability while adding another shade ability. Stealth would be interesting. Though I think I'd like to see something new/creative (though useful).
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    Combine the two ideas then,
    it might actually make the shade hive useful.
  • YoungTrotskyYoungTrotsky Join Date: 2007-03-09 Member: 60307Members
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Combine the two ideas then,
    it might actually make the shade hive useful.
    Silence is incredible useful, some top teams (archaea for example) go shade hive before shift hive in most games.

    I think an ability that's only attribute was to make you invisible to scans would be pretty underpowered compared to silence, especially on public servers where a lot of marine commanders only use about 3 scans in a round anyway. Plus a lot of public players seem to love camo so it would be harsh to take it away from them, even though they are misguided :P
  • Metal HandkerchiefMetal Handkerchief Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168697Members
    In all the patches, back from the beginning, Silence has been the only option for me. And then they nerf cam, showing an absolute disconnect with the reality of it's use.

    Silence is indeed useful, and good marines go by audio when pinpointing alien early expansion, which is why silence can really mess up your plans.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    edited March 2013
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Combine the two ideas then,
    it might actually make the shade hive useful.
    Silence is incredible useful, some top teams (archaea for example) go shade hive before shift hive in most games.

    I think an ability that's only attribute was to make you invisible to scans would be pretty underpowered compared to silence, especially on public servers where a lot of marine commanders only use about 3 scans in a round anyway. Plus a lot of public players seem to love camo so it would be harsh to take it away from them, even though they are misguided :P

    Not JUST scans. I imagine it should prevent you from showing up on the map ever (buildings/marines still flash when you hit them). So scans, obs, and even marine LoS. The scan circles shouldn't appear either, and if you happen to be in range of a shade you keep the shade invisibility even while being scanned.

    Sound a little bit more useful now?
  • YoungTrotskyYoungTrotsky Join Date: 2007-03-09 Member: 60307Members
    sotanaht wrote: »
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Combine the two ideas then,
    it might actually make the shade hive useful.
    Silence is incredible useful, some top teams (archaea for example) go shade hive before shift hive in most games.

    I think an ability that's only attribute was to make you invisible to scans would be pretty underpowered compared to silence, especially on public servers where a lot of marine commanders only use about 3 scans in a round anyway. Plus a lot of public players seem to love camo so it would be harsh to take it away from them, even though they are misguided :P

    Not JUST scans. I imagine it should prevent you from showing up on the map ever (buildings/marines still flash when you hit them). So scans, obs, and even marine LoS. The scan circles shouldn't appear either, and if you happen to be in range of a shade you keep the shade invisibility even while being scanned.

    Sound a little bit more useful now?

    Yes, but it's dependent on several factors like skill of the marine commander and how much the marines you happen to be playing against look at their map, so I think it would be quite a frustrating upgrade compared to the simplicity of the others e.g.

    - this one gives you more energy,
    - this one gives you faster health regeneration,
    - this one makes you silent,
    - this one means that if the marines on the other team look at their map you won't show up even if their commander scans you or their team-mates have LOS on you or you are near their obs and even keeps you invisible near a shade if you get scanned.
  • WoollySammothWoollySammoth Join Date: 2013-02-14 Member: 183062Members
    The problem with camo is that it's use isn't distinct enough from silence. With cele/adren you can either get there faster or do more when you're there, with regen/cara you can hit-and-run quicker or you can hit harder, with sil/camo you can ambush better or ambush better. There isn't much of a difference between the two and so it becomes a case of which one is better and never which one fits this specific situation.


    I think that shade hive should become more of a sensory hive, rather than stealth, so there's more variation to the use of the evolutions: with one evolution 'Silence' effecting the marine's senses and the other effecting the alien's sense.


    The alien's sense would give them what could be considered a visual representation of smell. Marines within a radius would be highlighted, similar to parasite, because khaara could smell them. They could also 'smell fresh blood' on the marines, so a marine in LoS would have his health (not inc armour) displayed somehow (either like a attacked structure's health is displayed or in some fancier way), so the khaara could pick their targets better.
  • Angry ChildAngry Child Join Date: 2012-12-05 Member: 174256Members
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Combine the two ideas then,
    it might actually make the shade hive useful.

    You know I actually can't wait for this to go through so everybody can witness how hilariously overpowered it will be.

  • YoungTrotskyYoungTrotsky Join Date: 2007-03-09 Member: 60307Members
    The alien's sense would give them what could be considered a visual representation of smell. Marines within a radius would be highlighted, similar to parasite, because khaara could smell them. They could also 'smell fresh blood' on the marines, so a marine in LoS would have his health (not inc armour) displayed somehow (either like a attacked structure's health is displayed or in some fancier way), so the khaara could pick their targets better.

    Don't know if you are aware but one of the sensory hive upgrades in NS1 was basically that, it effectively made it as though all marines within a radius were parasited so you could see them through walls and on the minimap. It was cool, I don't know why they took it out really, maybe because they already had 3 evolutions for the shade hive in NS2, but since they removed feign death they could put this in, I would probably use it a lot. It was called 'Scent of fear'.
  • WoollySammothWoollySammoth Join Date: 2013-02-14 Member: 183062Members
    The alien's sense would give them what could be considered a visual representation of smell. Marines within a radius would be highlighted, similar to parasite, because khaara could smell them. They could also 'smell fresh blood' on the marines, so a marine in LoS would have his health (not inc armour) displayed somehow (either like a attacked structure's health is displayed or in some fancier way), so the khaara could pick their targets better.

    Don't know if you are aware but one of the sensory hive upgrades in NS1 was basically that, it effectively made it as though all marines within a radius were parasited so you could see them through walls and on the minimap. It was cool, I don't know why they took it out really, maybe because they already had 3 evolutions for the shade hive in NS2, but since they removed feign death they could put this in, I would probably use it a lot. It was called 'Scent of fear'.


    Ha, I didn't know that, you live and learn. :)

    Viva la Scent of Fear!
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Shade must have on single upgrade which makes you completely silent, invisible, immune to obs and scans. No combat penalty. As a counter to this, marines get nuclear bomb.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    edited March 2013
    sotanaht wrote: »
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Combine the two ideas then,
    it might actually make the shade hive useful.
    Silence is incredible useful, some top teams (archaea for example) go shade hive before shift hive in most games.

    I think an ability that's only attribute was to make you invisible to scans would be pretty underpowered compared to silence, especially on public servers where a lot of marine commanders only use about 3 scans in a round anyway. Plus a lot of public players seem to love camo so it would be harsh to take it away from them, even though they are misguided :P

    Not JUST scans. I imagine it should prevent you from showing up on the map ever (buildings/marines still flash when you hit them). So scans, obs, and even marine LoS. The scan circles shouldn't appear either, and if you happen to be in range of a shade you keep the shade invisibility even while being scanned.

    Sound a little bit more useful now?

    Yes, but it's dependent on several factors like skill of the marine commander and how much the marines you happen to be playing against look at their map, so I think it would be quite a frustrating upgrade compared to the simplicity of the others e.g.

    - this one gives you more energy,
    - this one gives you faster health regeneration,
    - this one makes you silent,
    - this one means that if the marines on the other team look at their map you won't show up even if their commander scans you or their team-mates have LOS on you or you are near their obs and even keeps you invisible near a shade if you get scanned.

    Your looking a little too much into it.

    The two shade upgrades would compare as:
    -This one makes marines not notice you when close by
    -This one makes marines not notice you when far away.

    Although I guess it has the problem that there is just no good way to convey it's effect to the user. It works, and it would probably be pretty damn effective, but unlike silence where you actually can hear the effect for yourself, there would be absolutely no natural feedback for radar stealth.
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