NSL/Comp Summit/Tram/Veil/Descent

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  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,954 Fully active user
    That should be something that has relatively little impact, especially at the times when it seems like the NSL maps perform the best (early game when nothing is going on). I could see when the power is damaged in heavily lit areas.
  • IndustryIndustry Esteemed Gentleman Join Date: 2010-07-13 Member: 72344Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 698
    I did a profile on both nsl_summit and summit from atrium and both calls to UpdatePowerPointLights were negligible. 22 μs and 28 μs respectively.

    The ClientGame::BeginRendering and FinishRendering though had fairly large differences and both are in the thread with the game logic.

    summit:
    GNFAOmd.jpg

    nsl_summit
    zU1DCTm.jpg


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  • Katana-Katana- Join Date: 2008-11-25 Member: 65575Members Posts: 351
    This seems like useful optimization information. Have any of the devs looked into what might cause these functions to scale poorly with the number of lights in a map?
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,727
    Although I've enjoyed playing on these modified maps with the higher fps, I think the darkness causes a lot of issues for the casters. Many areas are so dark that it's hard to even make out the players from top-down view. Until that is resolved, I don't see these as being playable in a tournament setting.
  • wirywiry Join Date: 2009-05-25 Member: 67479Members Posts: 507 Advanced user
    Is it possible to make the maps brighter without adding additional light sources?

    I don't mean to sound disrespectful to the guys out there casting, because the casted games are the only way to watch matches if you're not on the server, and it's an awesome service to those interested. But if I had to choose, I would much rather play with the high fps than having a game casted.
    :0
    swalk
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    edited February 2013
    Yes, I will make another lighting pass soon™.

    Edit:
    fanatic wrote: »
    Although I've enjoyed playing on these modified maps with the higher fps, I think the darkness causes a lot of issues for the casters. Many areas are so dark that it's hard to even make out the players from top-down view. Until that is resolved, I don't see these as being playable in a tournament setting.
    I'm interested in looking for solutions for casters (especially them being able to use the original lighting), I think I've mentioned this in this thread. There's a number of solutions for these which are being discussed at the moment.

    In any case I will be addressing the lighting soon as I said, which should solve the issue partly (players are top priority).
    Post edited by Mendasp on
    vartija
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    edited February 2013
    Bumping, just updated Summit's lighting. In 95% of the cases, I have just enabled specularity on the lights, this makes a big difference, esp. from top-down view.

    Please let me know if it needs further adjustment.
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    The custom spawns mod now also allows spectators to switch between original lighting and NSL lighting by typing "lowlights" in console while being a spectator. By default it loads the original lighting.

    Since the custom spawns mod is in the rules of S2 and all current tournaments, I added it there so I don't have to maintain 2 different mods. This basically means that now we can use the NSL maps even if the official stream wants to cast.

    Cheers.
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
  • GamerkatzeGamerkatze Join Date: 2012-06-27 Member: 153711Members Posts: 261
    Mendasp wrote: »
    The custom spawns mod now also allows spectators to switch between original lighting and NSL lighting by typing "lowlights" in console while being a spectator. By default it loads the original lighting.

    Since the custom spawns mod is in the rules of S2 and all current tournaments, I added it there so I don't have to maintain 2 different mods. This basically means that now we can use the NSL maps even if the official stream wants to cast.

    Cheers.

    doesnt work with insight :P
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  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    edited February 2013
    Yeah, it won't work with Insight because we're changing the same file.

    I have added the veil holograms back to veil in the "spectator" view.

    If you go into spec and the lights change, when you join a team you will retain those lights, you can type "lowlights" to change again.

    Also, since this mod lets me see both versions at the same time I can easily adjust the lighting closer to the original brightness now.
  • GlissGliss Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14800Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 5,161 Fully active user
    edited February 2013
    Mendasp wrote: »
    Yeah, it won't work with Insight because we're changing the same file.

    I have added the veil holograms back to veil in the "spectator" view.

    If you go into spec and the lights change, when you join a team you will retain those lights, you can type "lowlights" to change again.

    Also, since this mod lets me see both versions at the same time I can easily adjust the lighting closer to the original brightness now.
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  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 4,983 mod
    Gamerkatze wrote: »
    doesnt work with insight :P
    Do you mean it doesn't work with Insight, the pre-official spec mod in steam workshop, or Insight, the official spec in the current build?
  • GamerkatzeGamerkatze Join Date: 2012-06-27 Member: 153711Members Posts: 261
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    Gamerkatze wrote: »
    doesnt work with insight :P
    Do you mean it doesn't work with Insight, the pre-official spec mod in steam workshop, or Insight, the official spec in the current build?


    doesnt work with "pre-official spec mod". however if the official build spectator still uses the same files it wont work too.
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  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    Gamerkatze wrote: »
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    Gamerkatze wrote: »
    doesnt work with insight :P
    Do you mean it doesn't work with Insight, the pre-official spec mod in steam workshop, or Insight, the official spec in the current build?


    doesnt work with "pre-official spec mod". however if the official build spectator still uses the same files it wont work too.

    It will work. Right now it doesn't work because two mods are overwriting the same file (Spectator.lua), when it's official, only my mod will be overwriting it, thus, it will work.
    Gamerkatze
  • GamerkatzeGamerkatze Join Date: 2012-06-27 Member: 153711Members Posts: 261
    edited February 2013
    Mendasp wrote: »
    It will work. Right now it doesn't work because two mods are overwriting the same file (Spectator.lua), when it's official, only my mod will be overwriting it, thus, it will work.

    mendasp has spoken :D
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  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    I am updating the official Veil now. My first changes to the map, for build 241, are as follows (NSL Veil will be updated later today with these):

    - Closed off platform and mini-vents at the top of East Junction (mirroring West Junction).
    - Moved the Power Node in Topographical to the opposite wall (avoids marines getting into the vent -- you can still jump into the one in the middle of the corridor).
    - Fixed Skylights plate so it's still there but you're unable to jump into the vent.
    - Lowered the Pipeline door again and made it so you can cyst through the door.
    - Fixed the checkerboards in Nanogrid and the overlapping texture in Topo vent (not really that important for this changelog, but these pissed me off!).
    Industry
  • 3del!3del! Join Date: 2009-05-11 Member: 67386Members Posts: 110
    I'd like to put my vote in on fixed spawns for veil. I think every other spawn than cargo is a disadvantage for Aliens. Pipeline is obviously a bad spawn. But Sub is also not good, since it's harder to defend than pipeline and most teams drop pipe instead of sub, if they have the choice (when they spawn cargo).
    If we want NS2 to be competitive, it must be assured, that both teams have equal opportunities.
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    ns2_nsl_descent - Mod ID: 7d527cc

    Light counts: 2769 -> 353

    As always, let me know if something is wrong. The map is so bright that if someone complains about it being dark I'll stab them in the heart.
    sally_pantsezekel
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,954 Fully active user
    got bored/curious and looked over a couple things with this - as a question, couldnt you just create a list of all the lights for the NSL versions, and then use the vanilla versions with the mod to just load the minimal light set?
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 709 Advanced user
    edited March 2013
    @mendasp: i pm'd you a video that shows how you can still get into the skylights vent
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    @mendasp: i pm'd you a video that shows how you can still get into the skylights vent
    Saw it, I'll see what I can do.
    xDragon wrote: »
    got bored/curious and looked over a couple things with this - as a question, couldnt you just create a list of all the lights for the NSL versions, and then use the vanilla versions with the mod to just load the minimal light set?
    I already thought about this, but I'd need to delete all the sounds/particles in code in this case, which is the other difference in the NSL versions (plus in summit's case it's usually more up to date, etc), so I think it's more benefitial this way.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 4,983 mod
    @mendasp: i pm'd you a video that shows how you can still get into the skylights vent
    I think you should be able to get into that vent, as it provides a nice counter to aliens harass between the overlook and skylights RTs.
  • vartijavartija Join Date: 2007-03-02 Member: 60193Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 99 Advanced user
    edited March 2013
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    @mendasp: i pm'd you a video that shows how you can still get into the skylights vent
    I think you should be able to get into that vent, as it provides a nice counter to aliens harass between the overlook and skylights RTs.

    There's no way marines should be able to get into vents meant for aliens. If a vent causes inbalance I would suggest removing it.

    To be clear veil is already marine friendly map and you would like to make it more harder for aliens to bite west side rts?
    swalkGamerkatzeIke
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,904 Advanced user
    vartija wrote: »
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    @mendasp: i pm'd you a video that shows how you can still get into the skylights vent
    I think you should be able to get into that vent, as it provides a nice counter to aliens harass between the overlook and skylights RTs.

    There's no way marines should be able to get into vents meant for aliens. If a vent causes inbalance I would suggest removing it.

    To be clear veil is already marine friendly map and you would like to make it more harder for aliens to bite west side rts?
    It was perfectly fine when marines could jump into the vent. A good skulk can distract one marine for as long as he wants with this vent and kill these extractors over and over. Requiring two marines to defend these nodes, yeah that is an imbalance. You can still boost up in skylights with two marines and frankly, it was no problem that one marine could get up there by himself. Marines can still use alot of other vents on veil you think that's a problem too? Only stupid aliens would begin running down the long vent before making sure there is no marine camping at the end. There is even two camping spots inside the vent to counter marines doing this, you obviously couldn't reach it before the marines in the early-game, but later on these spots are very effective. Besides, it takes away precious time for the marine to crawl through the entire vent or sit and camp at the end of it. So there goes your balance.

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    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
    vartija
  • TaneTane Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32441Members, Constellation Posts: 123 Advanced user
    edited March 2013
    Of course it was a problem and good job removing it. Marines should get to ventilation systems only by boosting or from dangerous zones (like overlook to west vents or from C12 to topo vents). Aliens should get mobility advantage from vents not marines, no right minded skulk ever used old west vent.
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  • WildChickenWildChicken Join Date: 2004-08-25 Member: 30891Members, Constellation Posts: 146
    edited March 2013
    I'm with @swalk on this. The 11 seconds it takes to crawl through there gives one harassing skulk plenty of time to maneuver / set up an ambush / go somewhere else. If there was absolute safety in those vents there wouldn't be much point in even trying to cap Sky/Overlook.

    Edit: I'm not saying vents ending at RTs are bad. Relatively safe to get to vents (that are absolutely safe once inside) between TWO RT locations are bad from my perspective.
  • vartijavartija Join Date: 2007-03-02 Member: 60193Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 99 Advanced user
    I'm with @swalk on this. The 11 seconds it takes to crawl through there gives one harassing skulk plenty of time to maneuver / set up an ambush / go somewhere else. If there was absolute safety in those vents there wouldn't be much point in even trying to cap Sky/Overlook.

    Edit: I'm not saying vents ending at RTs are bad. Relatively safe to get to vents (that are absolutely safe once inside) between TWO RT locations are bad from my perspective.

    Last time I check marines run about same speed as skulks. You can quite easily cover both nodes with one marine. And if you have not noticed, SKULK HAS TO BITE THE NODE TO KILL IT. Hiding in vent does not really help.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 4,983 mod
    vartija wrote: »
    Last time I check marines run about same speed as skulks. You can quite easily cover both nodes with one marine. And if you have not noticed, SKULK HAS TO BITE THE NODE TO KILL IT. Hiding in vent does not really help.
    Bite skylights for a few seconds till the marine gets there, run and bite overlook till the marine catches up, back to skylights, rinse and repeat. Its not very hard now that marines can't counter by getting in the vent.

    Also, marine mobility is already punished in vents as they move slower when crouching.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,904 Advanced user
    vartija wrote: »
    I'm with @swalk on this. The 11 seconds it takes to crawl through there gives one harassing skulk plenty of time to maneuver / set up an ambush / go somewhere else. If there was absolute safety in those vents there wouldn't be much point in even trying to cap Sky/Overlook.

    Edit: I'm not saying vents ending at RTs are bad. Relatively safe to get to vents (that are absolutely safe once inside) between TWO RT locations are bad from my perspective.

    Last time I check marines run about same speed as skulks. You can quite easily cover both nodes with one marine. And if you have not noticed, SKULK HAS TO BITE THE NODE TO KILL IT. Hiding in vent does not really help.
    One skulk can keep going back and forth doing damage to the nodes without the marine being able to catch him. Even if the marine can sprint at first, he can't keep up with the skulk. Eventually, those nodes go down unless you commit another marine to it or research mines and mine up the vent.

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    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
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