UWE did the right thing deactivating the key, the innocent people made the mistake in purchasing from a non reliable source, and the unreliable source did the wrong thing selling stolen keys.
im sure some of these "innocents" knew what they were buying, so some is not innocent, 12.50 last week, how cheap were these sites selling it?
On some level, there's part of me that disagrees with the policy of deactivating all the keys. And the reason for it is directly in the press release:
The owner of the stolen credit card ultimately disputed the charge and we lost the sale. In total, we lose ~$45 per transaction of this kind, due to the charge-back fee (~$22 fee + $25 game price). Meanwhile, the unauthorized key reseller kept the money from the player who ultimately received the bad key.
Deactivating the keys only punishes the innocent people who bought the keys. It doesn't restore the lost money to UWE, and it doesn't punish the person who sold them. The proper response here was to eat the loss and hope the people who obtained the game in this way lead to more sales via positive word of mouth.
heres a scenario
someone stole your wifes/husbands wedding ring, and i bought the stolen wedding ring for my wife to get married, and you find out i have it, what would you do?
let me keep it cause im innocent? i didnt steal it, i thought i bought it legitimate..
or
take it back and tell me its yours, and i should deal with the theif?
i think you would take it back because its yours, i know its two completely different things, but you know what i mean, purchasing anything stolen, even if your innocent does not make it yours, thats with everything you buy from software to goods.
UWE did the right thing deactivating the key, the innocent people made the mistake in purchasing from a non reliable source, and the unreliable source did the wrong thing selling stolen keys.
im sure some of these "innocents" knew what they were buying, so some is not innocent, 12.50 last week, how cheap were these sites selling it?
So, the bulk of those people probably won't end up rebuying the game, won't end up referring to the game to their friends, and the game ends up being smaller as a result. How is that an ideal solution on any level? In the end, deactivating the keys has likely cost UWE more money than doing nothing at all.
UWE did the right thing deactivating the key, the innocent people made the mistake in purchasing from a non reliable source, and the unreliable source did the wrong thing selling stolen keys.
im sure some of these "innocents" knew what they were buying, so some is not innocent, 12.50 last week, how cheap were these sites selling it?
So, the bulk of those people probably won't end up rebuying the game, won't end up referring to the game to their friends, and the game ends up being smaller as a result. How is that an ideal solution on any level? In the end, deactivating the keys has likely cost UWE more money than doing nothing at all.
dont act like you know the exact answer to that question, its a very good point you make, i agree, but what if the people who bought the game, were playing it enough to really like it, have it deactivated, realized its stolen, understood the consequences and bought the game legitimate anyway?
like i said i see your point, but theres also a good chance that these innocents will but the game legitimate next time, or any other game for that matter i hope, whether its ns2 or bioshock infinite, they will know the risks involved and probably will only purchase officially.
although innocent, they need to learn a lesson, they will know better next time not to buy from shady sites which is good for them and the industry
So, the bulk of those people probably won't end up rebuying the game, won't end up referring to the game to their friends, and the game ends up being smaller as a result. How is that an ideal solution on any level? In the end, deactivating the keys has likely cost UWE more money than doing nothing at all.
Its doubtful that its going to have an effect on the playerbase. Anyone who liked the game enough is probably going to rebuy it ($25 is hardly breaking the bank) and those that didn't won't. 1,341 keys is a very small percentage of the total NS2 keys out there (over 100,000 by my guess).
dont act like you know the exact answer to that question, its a very good point you make, i agree, but what if the people who bought the game, were playing it enough to really like it, have it deactivated, realized its stolen, understood the consequences and bought the game legitimate anyway?
like i said i see your point, but theres also a good chance that these innocents will but the game legitimate next time, or any other game for that matter i hope, whether its ns2 or bioshock infinite, they will know the risks involved and probably will only purchase officially.
although innocent, they need to learn a lesson, they will know better next time not to buy from shady sites which is good for them and the industry
People generally don't put much thought into things like this. Arguing that, "Oh, they'll learn a lesson" is pretty absurd. A lesson of what? People buy products from places that advertise them as being lower than MSRP all the time, and it's hardly limited to just digital goods. It's far more likely that they just end up blaming the game/game developer and end up quitting the game. Because as just stated - people don't expend much thought when faced with situations like this.
Its doubtful that its going to have an effect on the playerbase. Anyone who liked the game enough is probably going to rebuy it ($25 is hardly breaking the bank) and those that didn't won't. 1,341 keys is a very small percentage of the total NS2 keys out there (over 100,000 by my guess).
Anyone who liked the game enough is probably going to rebuy it ($25 is hardly breaking the bank) and those that didn't won't. 1,341 keys is a very small percentage of the total NS2 keys out there (over 100,000 by my guess).
Because the natural reaction to a game suddenly locking you out (for no reason on your end) is to immediately put down another 24.99 when you've already paid for the game? That's not how most people are going to react to a situation like this.
dont act like you know the exact answer to that question, its a very good point you make, i agree, but what if the people who bought the game, were playing it enough to really like it, have it deactivated, realized its stolen, understood the consequences and bought the game legitimate anyway?
like i said i see your point, but theres also a good chance that these innocents will but the game legitimate next time, or any other game for that matter i hope, whether its ns2 or bioshock infinite, they will know the risks involved and probably will only purchase officially.
although innocent, they need to learn a lesson, they will know better next time not to buy from shady sites which is good for them and the industry
People generally don't put much thought into things like this. Arguing that, "Oh, they'll learn a lesson" is pretty absurd. A lesson of what? People buy products from places that advertise them as being lower than MSRP all the time, and it's hardly limited to just digital goods. It's far more likely that they just end up blaming the game/game developer and end up quitting the game. Because as just stated - people don't expend much thought when faced with situations like this.
I see what you mean, but whos fault is that? obviously them, if they cant learn from their mistakes then too bad for them, they have everything in their power to educate themselves, such as ask questions in steam support, UWE forums, or the place they bought the game from, when they take that step they will learn it was stolen key, when they learn from that they will go to the resellers and ask for a refund, its their choice, if they want to be ignorant and not educate themselves then continue to buy from shady sites its their problem.
i do feel sorry for them, and i hope they get their money back, but what i hope the most is that they learn not to do this mistake.
UWE knew full well what they were doing im sure, they did not just say lets deactive innocent peoples keys even though we are not getting our money back, im sure they knew full well they wont be getting any money for it, they deactivated it because it was again stolen.
you keep saying that because they were innocent they should keep it and i will keep saying that stolen goods should never be sold, which is why ONE should do their research to make SURE its not stolen, if they fail to do that, then they can only blame themselves and the reseller, if they are not doing that then they are ignorant/arrogant innocent people.
i have been in situations where i almost got scammed for 600 dollars, if i bought it i would of had myself to blame first, then the reseller, good thing i know what to look for.
one thing i would like to point out is just a few days ago the game was being sold for 12.50, where were these innocents then? the game has been out for months, been on sale a number of times and they never purchased it until some shady site sells it, why? ill tell you why
because most of these purchases where probably 5 bucks, if they are crying because they are out 5 dollars from purchasing from a shady sites then i do not feel sorry for them one bit actually,
12.50 from a legtimate site
orrrr
5-10 dollars from a shady site.
seriously? what would you purchase from, if you pick the 5-10 dollars from shady site, your asking for something to go wrong.
dont act like you know the exact answer to that question, its a very good point you make, i agree, but what if the people who bought the game, were playing it enough to really like it, have it deactivated, realized its stolen, understood the consequences and bought the game legitimate anyway?
like i said i see your point, but theres also a good chance that these innocents will but the game legitimate next time, or any other game for that matter i hope, whether its ns2 or bioshock infinite, they will know the risks involved and probably will only purchase officially.
although innocent, they need to learn a lesson, they will know better next time not to buy from shady sites which is good for them and the industry
People generally don't put much thought into things like this. Arguing that, "Oh, they'll learn a lesson" is pretty absurd. A lesson of what? People buy products from places that advertise them as being lower than MSRP all the time, and it's hardly limited to just digital goods. It's far more likely that they just end up blaming the game/game developer and end up quitting the game. Because as just stated - people don't expend much thought when faced with situations like this.
I see what you mean, but whos fault is that? obviously them, if they cant learn from their mistakes then too bad for them, they have everything in their power to educate themselves, such as ask questions in steam support, UWE forums, or the place they bought the game from, when they take that step they will learn it was stolen key, when they learn from that they will go to the resellers and ask for a refund, its their choice, if they want to be ignorant and not educate themselves then continue to buy from shady sites its their problem.
i do feel sorry for them, and i hope they get their money back, but what i hope the most is that they learn not to do this mistake.
UWE knew full well what they were doing im sure, they did not just say lets deactive innocent peoples keys even though we are not getting our money back, im sure they knew full well they wont be getting any money for it, they deactivated it because it was again stolen.
you keep saying that because they were innocent they should keep it and i will keep saying that stolen goods should never be sold, which is why ONE should do their research to make SURE its not stolen, if they fail to do that, then they can only blame themselves and the reseller, if they are not doing that then they are ignorant/arrogant innocent people.
i have been in situations where i almost got scammed for 600 dollars, if i bought it i would of had myself to blame first, then the reseller, good thing i know what to look for.
Lets just throw out a few logical questions here:
1.) Is the NS2 community in any way advanced by these keys being banned?
-No. From a community perspective, a mass ban for non-cheat related reasons is very bad.
2.) Is UWE in any way advanced by these keys being deactivated?
-Not really. They would essentially be banking on the people who got banned to come back and buy another copy of the game for this to pan out. Which as explained above, really isn't something that's likely for the vast majority of people. It's more likely that it loses them future sales due to less word of mouth.
3.) Did a lot of innocent people get banned?
-Yes. Yes they did.
The only argument you keep throwing out for the action taken being a good thing is simply one of petty revenge. The one thing deactivating the keys does is that it allows UWE to feel as though they enacted some measure of control over the situation. Feeling as if you have some degree of control over a situation that's greatly pissed you off (losing 30k is a reason to be pissed) is one way to feel less bad about the situation. It doesn't change the fact however, that the chosen action in this case did not objectively advance UWE in any way, and instead ends up harming innocent bystanders.
As much as it would have felt like awful to do so (due to the financial losses already incurred), the high road here was to leave the 1300+ keys in question alone. Because the final action in the chain of events (deactivating the keys) was felt only by people who did nothing more than try to support the game.
Because the natural reaction to a game suddenly locking you out (for no reason on your end) is to immediately put down another 24.99 when you've already paid for the game? That's not how most people are going to react to a situation like this.
Well, once you get an explanation from either steam or UWE regarding why, yeah. You try to get your money back from the fraudulent reseller while repurchasing the game from a legitimate reseller. It was much the same for those who used ebay back before they instituted their much stricter seller/buyer policies. Its a trade-off between cheaper prices and the risk the seller is a fraud.
dont act like you know the exact answer to that question, its a very good point you make, i agree, but what if the people who bought the game, were playing it enough to really like it, have it deactivated, realized its stolen, understood the consequences and bought the game legitimate anyway?
like i said i see your point, but theres also a good chance that these innocents will but the game legitimate next time, or any other game for that matter i hope, whether its ns2 or bioshock infinite, they will know the risks involved and probably will only purchase officially.
although innocent, they need to learn a lesson, they will know better next time not to buy from shady sites which is good for them and the industry
People generally don't put much thought into things like this. Arguing that, "Oh, they'll learn a lesson" is pretty absurd. A lesson of what? People buy products from places that advertise them as being lower than MSRP all the time, and it's hardly limited to just digital goods. It's far more likely that they just end up blaming the game/game developer and end up quitting the game. Because as just stated - people don't expend much thought when faced with situations like this.
I see what you mean, but whos fault is that? obviously them, if they cant learn from their mistakes then too bad for them, they have everything in their power to educate themselves, such as ask questions in steam support, UWE forums, or the place they bought the game from, when they take that step they will learn it was stolen key, when they learn from that they will go to the resellers and ask for a refund, its their choice, if they want to be ignorant and not educate themselves then continue to buy from shady sites its their problem.
i do feel sorry for them, and i hope they get their money back, but what i hope the most is that they learn not to do this mistake.
UWE knew full well what they were doing im sure, they did not just say lets deactive innocent peoples keys even though we are not getting our money back, im sure they knew full well they wont be getting any money for it, they deactivated it because it was again stolen.
you keep saying that because they were innocent they should keep it and i will keep saying that stolen goods should never be sold, which is why ONE should do their research to make SURE its not stolen, if they fail to do that, then they can only blame themselves and the reseller, if they are not doing that then they are ignorant/arrogant innocent people.
i have been in situations where i almost got scammed for 600 dollars, if i bought it i would of had myself to blame first, then the reseller, good thing i know what to look for.
Lets just throw out a few logical questions here:
1.) Is the NS2 community in any way advanced by these keys being banned?
-No. From a community perspective, a mass ban for non-cheat related reasons is very bad.
2.) Is UWE in any way advanced by these keys being deactivated?
-Not really. They would essentially be banking on the people who got banned to come back and buy another copy of the game for this to pan out. Which as explained above, really isn't something that's likely for the vast majority of people. It's more likely that it loses them future sales due to less word of mouth.
3.) Did a lot of innocent people get banned?
-Yes. Yes they did.
The only argument you keep throwing out for the action taken being a good thing is simply one of petty revenge. The one thing deactivating the keys does is that it allows UWE to feel as though they enacted some measure of control over the situation. Feeling as if you have some degree of control over a situation that's greatly pissed you off (losing 30k is a reason to be pissed) is one way to feel less bad about the situation. It doesn't change the fact however, that the chosen action in this case did not objectively advance UWE in any way, and instead ends up harming innocent bystanders.
As much as it would have felt like awful to do so (due to the financial losses already incurred), the high road here was to leave the 1300+ keys in question alone. Because the final action in the chain of events (deactivating the keys) was felt only by people who did nothing more than try to support the game.
again i agree with everything you just said, however you only look at the consequences that happened, what if UWE did not deactivate the keys? you never look at the other side of the story, if UWE did not deactivate the keys, everything you said will be true, but you know what else? the same people which SOME will find out that the keys that they purchase were stolen, theres a good chance they will just brush it off and say SCORE I GOT A DEAL even if it stolen, im going to buy more games from this reseller because companies dont do anytihng about it!
allowing these users to continue playing with stolen keys at a cheap price will encourage more users to purchase keys, does that not worry you?
hey brad, i just bought this stolen steam key from this site, it works and its a great game buy it while you can! UWE is not deactivating them!
stolen key sales and business goes up because keys were never deactivated
On some level, there's part of me that disagrees with the policy of deactivating all the keys. And the reason for it is directly in the press release:
The owner of the stolen credit card ultimately disputed the charge and we lost the sale. In total, we lose ~$45 per transaction of this kind, due to the charge-back fee (~$22 fee + $25 game price). Meanwhile, the unauthorized key reseller kept the money from the player who ultimately received the bad key.
Deactivating the keys only punishes the innocent people who bought the keys. It doesn't restore the lost money to UWE, and it doesn't punish the person who sold them. The proper response here was to eat the loss and hope the people who obtained the game in this way lead to more sales via positive word of mouth.
well, now there are 1341 less people that will buy stolen stuff unknowingly
The only argument you keep throwing out for the action taken being a good thing is simply one of petty revenge. The one thing deactivating the keys does is that it allows UWE to feel as though they enacted some measure of control over the situation. Feeling as if you have some degree of control over a situation that's greatly pissed you off (losing 30k is a reason to be pissed) is one way to feel less bad about the situation. It doesn't change the fact however, that the chosen action in this case did not objectively advance UWE in any way, and instead ends up harming innocent bystanders.
As much as it would have felt like awful to do so (due to the financial losses already incurred), the high road here was to leave the 1300+ keys in question alone. Because the final action in the chain of events (deactivating the keys) was felt only by people who did nothing more than try to support the game.
You keep calling these people "innocent" when in fact the reason they cannot currently play NS2 is directly due to their own actions. When I go to the grocery store and buy day-old bread, If the bread is stale then it is my own fault for buying it. If the store represented that bread as fresh, then I would have grounds for complaint - but these guys went to an unknown reseller in order to save a couple bucks, without doing due diligence and research.
On some level, there's part of me that disagrees with the policy of deactivating all the keys. And the reason for it is directly in the press release:
The owner of the stolen credit card ultimately disputed the charge and we lost the sale. In total, we lose ~$45 per transaction of this kind, due to the charge-back fee (~$22 fee + $25 game price). Meanwhile, the unauthorized key reseller kept the money from the player who ultimately received the bad key.
Deactivating the keys only punishes the innocent people who bought the keys. It doesn't restore the lost money to UWE, and it doesn't punish the person who sold them. The proper response here was to eat the loss and hope the people who obtained the game in this way lead to more sales via positive word of mouth.
well, now there are 1341 less people that will buy stolen stuff unknowingly
bingo, atleast i hope, or as i said, even if they knew it was stolen BEFORE or AFTER the purchase, it will make them think twice next time, if UWE does not deactivate the keys, they will buy more stolen games at a discount knowingly
These people are not banned perse, UWE is basically saying to those banned to chargeback the scammer. If they dont want this, then they share the pain along with UWE.
The person who made the conscious, but dumb idea of buying from a Russian key site now gets to play the chargeback game with the scammer, and hopefully decide to give the money to the right person, or, decide they dont like NS2 and get a rare opportunity for a refund on a steam game, at the expense of a headache. The community wasn't benefiting from those who fell into the later camp anyway, who are in fact getting a back door out of this mess so they choose to take it.
I'm having a really hard time figuring out whether you're legitimately concerned about the things you express, or just trying to fuel a fire.
There is one simple argument: the keys were stolen. It sucks for the ones who bought them unknowingly - definitely. But one can not simply condone theft, especially on this scale. The only thing you would accomplish there, is teaching the frauds that their business works even better than they thought. Get caught = no repercussions. That would hurt so many more people than their current action did.
You probably never thought ahead - what if these fraudulent companies stay in business longer/more successful because the same customers keep coming back? You want even more money to be stolen?
I just can't even fathom how you would think UWE did the wrong thing.. I just can't.
Wow... Can someone please ban this two trolls from the forums? Their writing-diarrhea hurts my brain. There is simply no way someone is this stupid to argue against legal rights. If you buy a fake Rolex from China and get caught, you lose the Rolex and pay a penalty. But ohooo game development is different. You can just steal as you want... Srsly? This is no opinion. This is stupid. And the only reason someone would argue for that is because he is trolling the forum and wants to initiate flames. So please get rid of this trolls. Nobody needs them here.
The worst thing is, UWE rewards them with responses. So they can stroke their ego. I simply can't understand this. Please give me at least an ignore-function in this forum.
Lots of trolls in here trying to make an odd argument. Let's rephrase it.
You have keys to your apartment. Someone steals the keys and makes copies. They sell the keys to someone else and say "The contents of the apartment are yours, go nuts". Random people come in and start to steal your stuff.
Seems pretty fair to change your locks before they steal too much. Right?
I have seen a lot of UWE-hate on these forums, but this takes the prize. Bashing UWE and defending the criminals who rip off devs and players alike... Do you understand that many of those sites use stolen credit card information to buy a bulk of their keys in the first place?
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding is why charge-back payment goes to UWE. Is there some way they could've avoided this? As far as I'm understanding, UWE is the participant that's supposed to have the least responsibility in this.
I see a lot of dumb posts in this thread. People seem to have no sense of right from from. Yes, I'm siding with UWE on this one.
There should be a way for UWE to dispute this I would think. I'm trying to wrap my head around why it would make sense for a credit card company to legally be able to pass these fees onto a party that didn't do anything wrong.
I hate the internet sometimes. There are people like Kim Dot Com getting rich as hell with illegal file sharing (correctly: with ads and premium accounts on illegal file sharing sites) while most of the internet community is bowing to them like they are some kind of fighters for freedom.
I can understand that people on this planet are opressed by their governement or that they can't afford games "legally" but in this case right here, an indie company was hurt by fradulent activities. What can they do to prevent it? NOTHING! Hooray internet, we have total freedom here!
But should they not care about it? NO WAY! Allowing the players who are playing the game "illegaly" (they bought "stolen" keys, unwillingly or not) to keep playing would be a free pass for everyone who is buying on fishy key store sites and would be benefiting the Kim Dot Coms on this planet in the end. Because they can keep on doing what they doing, they keep getting rich by it and even the people they hurt don't care about it.
To make it short: there are big companys on this planet, that take away the games you bought from them when you talk bad about these companys in their forums. When they are hurt (in marginal numbers) by any fradulent activities, I don't even care. But there are small companys that need every hard eardned penny they can get. And when they are hurt by that "why bother buying? I could get it free or cheaper anyway! hooray internet!" mentality it sucks!
I feel very sorry for UWEs money loss and I try to feel sorry for the poor souls who buyed on fishy key store sites when they should have known better.
The only thing that UWE could do and what would be outstanding to any other company on that planet afaik would be to give the affected people a discount on the game, or to repeat that sale which was on Steam lately. But like I said, that would be remarkable nice of them and should be in no way normality in cases like that.
TL;DR: Kim Dot Com isn't so great, fishy key stores aren't either, poor UWE.
It's a bad situation, but the action that UWE took in deactivating the keys was wholly unnecessary. As explained above, most of the people who end up with deactivated keys will just leave the game. And they'll be out money because most people aren't going to go through the hassle of a chargeback for what's a nominal charge. The extra step you guys took in deactivating keys falls squarely on the shoulders of otherwise innocent people and it's not really right. Take it as you will.
Afraid this is kinda what I think too.
If people just randomly get a message from steam saying 'hey the people who made this game say you can't play it any more' and end up out of pocket by however much they paid for it, I can't imagine many of them will immediately go 'welp I'd better pay more than I originally paid for the same game, directly to the people who just told me to get stuffed'.
I can't imagine it making you much money, only producing a bunch of people who are going to tell everyone they know how much UWE is a terrible company who screw people out of games they bought, regardless of your position on the subject.
It seems minimally beneficial to UWE and potentially harmful to the image of the company.
Basically, what does it achieve? Beyond annoying 1,341 people, a chunk of whom probably didn't realise they did anything wrong? Why do it?
How come Humble Store didn't have to eat any of the costs? If you're working with a proper eCommerce solution, they should take care of all of that. I'd be wary of offering sale of my game through the Humble Store now.
if you buy a big mac from a dirty stinky shanty hut, getting a bout of ecoli in the process, you don't then go to mcdonalds expecting a free burger for your trouble.
although i am aware that some people are physiologically addicted to bargains. the prize of dopamine blinds them from proper reasoning, and they take silly risks - easy mark for a con.
that's not UWE's fault, so why should UWE pick up the tab?
OK now, how come UWE has to pay the fee? Shouldn't that be the person who lost/gave away his credit card information? I mean, he wasn't caring much about his security, but he still can get his money back, shouldn't the fee be applied to him?
I don't think internet store can verify if ccard is stolen or not, all you have to do is provide correct information and purchase is complete (automatically). And if the buyer was not the original holder of the credit card, how come store has to pay the fee?..
Comments
im sure some of these "innocents" knew what they were buying, so some is not innocent, 12.50 last week, how cheap were these sites selling it?
heres a scenario
someone stole your wifes/husbands wedding ring, and i bought the stolen wedding ring for my wife to get married, and you find out i have it, what would you do?
let me keep it cause im innocent? i didnt steal it, i thought i bought it legitimate..
or
take it back and tell me its yours, and i should deal with the theif?
i think you would take it back because its yours, i know its two completely different things, but you know what i mean, purchasing anything stolen, even if your innocent does not make it yours, thats with everything you buy from software to goods.
So, the bulk of those people probably won't end up rebuying the game, won't end up referring to the game to their friends, and the game ends up being smaller as a result. How is that an ideal solution on any level? In the end, deactivating the keys has likely cost UWE more money than doing nothing at all.
dont act like you know the exact answer to that question, its a very good point you make, i agree, but what if the people who bought the game, were playing it enough to really like it, have it deactivated, realized its stolen, understood the consequences and bought the game legitimate anyway?
like i said i see your point, but theres also a good chance that these innocents will but the game legitimate next time, or any other game for that matter i hope, whether its ns2 or bioshock infinite, they will know the risks involved and probably will only purchase officially.
although innocent, they need to learn a lesson, they will know better next time not to buy from shady sites which is good for them and the industry
I'm sure they appreciate your concern about their business, though.
People generally don't put much thought into things like this. Arguing that, "Oh, they'll learn a lesson" is pretty absurd. A lesson of what? People buy products from places that advertise them as being lower than MSRP all the time, and it's hardly limited to just digital goods. It's far more likely that they just end up blaming the game/game developer and end up quitting the game. Because as just stated - people don't expend much thought when faced with situations like this.
they said it sold over 300,000 copies
Because the natural reaction to a game suddenly locking you out (for no reason on your end) is to immediately put down another 24.99 when you've already paid for the game? That's not how most people are going to react to a situation like this.
i do feel sorry for them, and i hope they get their money back, but what i hope the most is that they learn not to do this mistake.
UWE knew full well what they were doing im sure, they did not just say lets deactive innocent peoples keys even though we are not getting our money back, im sure they knew full well they wont be getting any money for it, they deactivated it because it was again stolen.
you keep saying that because they were innocent they should keep it and i will keep saying that stolen goods should never be sold, which is why ONE should do their research to make SURE its not stolen, if they fail to do that, then they can only blame themselves and the reseller, if they are not doing that then they are ignorant/arrogant innocent people.
i have been in situations where i almost got scammed for 600 dollars, if i bought it i would of had myself to blame first, then the reseller, good thing i know what to look for.
because most of these purchases where probably 5 bucks, if they are crying because they are out 5 dollars from purchasing from a shady sites then i do not feel sorry for them one bit actually,
12.50 from a legtimate site
orrrr
5-10 dollars from a shady site.
seriously? what would you purchase from, if you pick the 5-10 dollars from shady site, your asking for something to go wrong.
Lets just throw out a few logical questions here:
1.) Is the NS2 community in any way advanced by these keys being banned?
-No. From a community perspective, a mass ban for non-cheat related reasons is very bad.
2.) Is UWE in any way advanced by these keys being deactivated?
-Not really. They would essentially be banking on the people who got banned to come back and buy another copy of the game for this to pan out. Which as explained above, really isn't something that's likely for the vast majority of people. It's more likely that it loses them future sales due to less word of mouth.
3.) Did a lot of innocent people get banned?
-Yes. Yes they did.
The only argument you keep throwing out for the action taken being a good thing is simply one of petty revenge. The one thing deactivating the keys does is that it allows UWE to feel as though they enacted some measure of control over the situation. Feeling as if you have some degree of control over a situation that's greatly pissed you off (losing 30k is a reason to be pissed) is one way to feel less bad about the situation. It doesn't change the fact however, that the chosen action in this case did not objectively advance UWE in any way, and instead ends up harming innocent bystanders.
As much as it would have felt like awful to do so (due to the financial losses already incurred), the high road here was to leave the 1300+ keys in question alone. Because the final action in the chain of events (deactivating the keys) was felt only by people who did nothing more than try to support the game.
again i agree with everything you just said, however you only look at the consequences that happened, what if UWE did not deactivate the keys? you never look at the other side of the story, if UWE did not deactivate the keys, everything you said will be true, but you know what else? the same people which SOME will find out that the keys that they purchase were stolen, theres a good chance they will just brush it off and say SCORE I GOT A DEAL even if it stolen, im going to buy more games from this reseller because companies dont do anytihng about it!
allowing these users to continue playing with stolen keys at a cheap price will encourage more users to purchase keys, does that not worry you?
hey brad, i just bought this stolen steam key from this site, it works and its a great game buy it while you can! UWE is not deactivating them!
stolen key sales and business goes up because keys were never deactivated
well, now there are 1341 less people that will buy stolen stuff unknowingly
You keep calling these people "innocent" when in fact the reason they cannot currently play NS2 is directly due to their own actions. When I go to the grocery store and buy day-old bread, If the bread is stale then it is my own fault for buying it. If the store represented that bread as fresh, then I would have grounds for complaint - but these guys went to an unknown reseller in order to save a couple bucks, without doing due diligence and research.
Like I said, it's their own fault.
bingo, atleast i hope, or as i said, even if they knew it was stolen BEFORE or AFTER the purchase, it will make them think twice next time, if UWE does not deactivate the keys, they will buy more stolen games at a discount knowingly
The person who made the conscious, but dumb idea of buying from a Russian key site now gets to play the chargeback game with the scammer, and hopefully decide to give the money to the right person, or, decide they dont like NS2 and get a rare opportunity for a refund on a steam game, at the expense of a headache. The community wasn't benefiting from those who fell into the later camp anyway, who are in fact getting a back door out of this mess so they choose to take it.
I'm having a really hard time figuring out whether you're legitimately concerned about the things you express, or just trying to fuel a fire.
There is one simple argument: the keys were stolen. It sucks for the ones who bought them unknowingly - definitely. But one can not simply condone theft, especially on this scale. The only thing you would accomplish there, is teaching the frauds that their business works even better than they thought. Get caught = no repercussions. That would hurt so many more people than their current action did.
You probably never thought ahead - what if these fraudulent companies stay in business longer/more successful because the same customers keep coming back? You want even more money to be stolen?
I just can't even fathom how you would think UWE did the wrong thing.. I just can't.
The worst thing is, UWE rewards them with responses. So they can stroke their ego. I simply can't understand this. Please give me at least an ignore-function in this forum.
You have keys to your apartment. Someone steals the keys and makes copies. They sell the keys to someone else and say "The contents of the apartment are yours, go nuts". Random people come in and start to steal your stuff.
Seems pretty fair to change your locks before they steal too much. Right?
Utterly disgusting.
There should be a way for UWE to dispute this I would think. I'm trying to wrap my head around why it would make sense for a credit card company to legally be able to pass these fees onto a party that didn't do anything wrong.
I can understand that people on this planet are opressed by their governement or that they can't afford games "legally" but in this case right here, an indie company was hurt by fradulent activities. What can they do to prevent it? NOTHING! Hooray internet, we have total freedom here!
But should they not care about it? NO WAY! Allowing the players who are playing the game "illegaly" (they bought "stolen" keys, unwillingly or not) to keep playing would be a free pass for everyone who is buying on fishy key store sites and would be benefiting the Kim Dot Coms on this planet in the end. Because they can keep on doing what they doing, they keep getting rich by it and even the people they hurt don't care about it.
To make it short: there are big companys on this planet, that take away the games you bought from them when you talk bad about these companys in their forums. When they are hurt (in marginal numbers) by any fradulent activities, I don't even care. But there are small companys that need every hard eardned penny they can get. And when they are hurt by that "why bother buying? I could get it free or cheaper anyway! hooray internet!" mentality it sucks!
I feel very sorry for UWEs money loss and I try to feel sorry for the poor souls who buyed on fishy key store sites when they should have known better.
The only thing that UWE could do and what would be outstanding to any other company on that planet afaik would be to give the affected people a discount on the game, or to repeat that sale which was on Steam lately. But like I said, that would be remarkable nice of them and should be in no way normality in cases like that.
TL;DR: Kim Dot Com isn't so great, fishy key stores aren't either, poor UWE.
Afraid this is kinda what I think too.
If people just randomly get a message from steam saying 'hey the people who made this game say you can't play it any more' and end up out of pocket by however much they paid for it, I can't imagine many of them will immediately go 'welp I'd better pay more than I originally paid for the same game, directly to the people who just told me to get stuffed'.
I can't imagine it making you much money, only producing a bunch of people who are going to tell everyone they know how much UWE is a terrible company who screw people out of games they bought, regardless of your position on the subject.
It seems minimally beneficial to UWE and potentially harmful to the image of the company.
Basically, what does it achieve? Beyond annoying 1,341 people, a chunk of whom probably didn't realise they did anything wrong? Why do it?
although i am aware that some people are physiologically addicted to bargains. the prize of dopamine blinds them from proper reasoning, and they take silly risks - easy mark for a con.
that's not UWE's fault, so why should UWE pick up the tab?
I don't think internet store can verify if ccard is stolen or not, all you have to do is provide correct information and purchase is complete (automatically). And if the buyer was not the original holder of the credit card, how come store has to pay the fee?..