NSL Invitational Grand Final goes Intercontinental! - NS2

SystemSystem Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond Posts: 466 vanilla
edited March 2013 in NS2 General Discussion

imageNSL Invitational Grand Final goes Intercontinental! - NS2

For over ten years, Natural Selection has been played competitively. For over ten years, there has been a ‘European scene’ and a ‘North American scene.’ Today, the barrier between the two came crashing down.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 1,779 admin
    Ping to get comment thread to show up.
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  • fourgorgestwoskulksfourgorgestwoskulks Join Date: 2013-03-02 Member: 183568Members Posts: 15
    Looked to me like a barrier went up preventing aliens from winning any games.
    BestProfileNameGamerkatze
  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 1,779 admin
    Looked to me like a barrier went up preventing aliens from winning any games.

    After spending 14 hours casting amazing games this weekend, I don't have the energy to eat this troll bait. Could someone please post the alien win loss ratios from the non-ping differential games so that other people visiting this thread don't actually believe this trash?
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  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,727
    edited March 2013
    44% alien / 56% marines with the ping differential matches (these numbers also include some pcws, couldn't sort them out easily). If you cut all those out, it would end up pretty close to 50/50.

    Very psyched about this. The event last fall was great fun, and this should be too.
    Post edited by fanatic on
    WasabiOne
  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 758 Advanced user
    I cannot wait to see these teams play!
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,665 Advanced user
    Underdog Americans versus the Finnish Regime. Who shall win?!
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
  • RedDogRedDog Las Vegas Join Date: 2013-02-22 Member: 183267Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 553 Advanced user
    This is so exciting, folks! Can't wait for those teams in Germany!

    Congratulations to Nexzil and Archaea!
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  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,954 Fully active user
    edited March 2013
    I dont think people realize how huge a difference ping makes - walking into a room as a marine with 20 ping vs a skulk with 150 hiding on the wall - you have upwards of 200ms of time to spot and shoot that skulk - before he can even react to you entering the room. Those 200ms can make all the difference between being dead or killing the marine. When every round is played with the marine ping advantage, your consistently stacking that impact against the win/loss ratio.

    The reason you saw so many marine wins in certain rounds really comes down to teams just not being as good at aliens - particularly skulks. If you've played countless rounds for 4 months without having to worry about improving your alien play much as you can generally win those matches, suddenly when the inherit alien advantage is removed you may find yourself in a loosing position on that side.

    The coin toss effect on the games was unfortunate, but I don't believe the outcomes would have changed much (besides Hg vs Nexzil in the semi's perhaps, but thats a totally different story). Hopefully this is the last time you will see the flip over side AND server.

    More importantly here, congrats to all and I am excited to see the finals.
  • RøvSparkerRøvSparker Binghamton, NY Join Date: 2012-11-27 Member: 173442Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 6 Fully active user
    I enjoyed watching the live stream on twitch. Keep up the good work UWE. Thank you!
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    Calego
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 4,983 mod
    edited March 2013
    Unfortunately, the data I've gathered from the Invitational does seem to suggest that comp balance has swung heavily in marines favor, even accounting for ping differentials. For all matches this weekend (including the three, 3-way tie-breakers), the alien winrate is
    - Total = 86
    - Marine = 54
    - Alien = 32
    - Alien winrate = 37%

    Excluding the high ping differential matches (e.g. removing the ones between NA and EU teams) I get
    - Total = 47
    - Marine = 29
    - Alien = 18
    - Alien winrate = 38%

    However, since there is so little data, the range in which the winrate cannot be rejected from being balanced (e.g. outside the 95% CI of balanced) is large.
    86 = [40%-60%]
    47 = [36%-64%]

    In this situation, I'd say that including all the matches suggests that early B240 favors marines in high-level comp play, but there isn't enough data to tell how much is due to high-ping differentials.
    fanatic wrote: »
    44% alien / 56% marines with the ping differential matches (these numbers also include some pcws, couldn't sort them out easily). If you cut all those out, it would end up pretty close to 50/50.

    Very psyched about this. The event last fall was great fun, and this should be too.
    I presume this comes from ns2stats with sorting by B240 and competitive (and date, 2/3/2013-4/3/2013) as thats close to what I get. However, I've noticed that data includes quite a bit of non-competitive games including gathers and, for reasons I don't understand, public matches from popular servers like KKG and HBZ. I wanted to see if I could get it to be more precise towards competitive play (e.g. tourny matches and pcws), so I restricted it to just the following servers (e.g. those that hosted at least one Invitational game):
    Be BAGUETTE my friend powered by NS2-Fr.com
    #NS2.fi Match Server
    All-In ENSL Server - Chicago, IL | NS2Servers.com
    Archaea Private
    Duplex > Hall of Shame
    Godar - Private
    Heidis private Farm [HBZ]
    Hg's Private Shade
    Nexzil Gaming | Central | Powered by NS2Servers.com
    Nexzil Gaming | East Coast | Powered by NS2Servers.com
    NSL Match - Frankfurt - #1
    NSL Match - Frankfurt - #2
    NSL Match - London - #1
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    NSL Match - NA East - #1
    Saunamen.Priv 2
    Team Inversion Private #2 | Sponsored by NS2Servers.com
    [FR] Cocorico, le poulet qui renait de ses cendres

    From which I get:
    - Total = 133
    - Marine = 79
    - Alien = 54
    - Alien winrate = 41%
    Which corresponds to a range of:
    133 = [41%-59%]

    So it's barely on the edge of being a statistically significant result.

    tl;dr version = Balanced changed in marines favor, but it isn't completely clear if this is a robust result. FEED ME MORE DATA!
    CyberKungioBestProfileNameYMICrazy
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,727
    edited March 2013
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    I presume this comes from ns2stats with sorting by B240 and competitive (and date, 2/3/2013-4/3/2013) as thats close to what I get. However, I've noticed that data includes quite a bit of non-competitive games including gathers and, for reasons I don't understand, public matches from popular servers like KKG and HBZ. I wanted to see if I could get it to be more precise towards competitive play (e.g. tourny matches and pcws), so I restricted it to just the following servers (e.g. those that hosted at least one Invitational game):
    Nope, I restricted it to pretty much the same servers as you, except for the nexzil servers, since I don't know which of of them is private or not, competitive games, 1.-4. march and build 240 only, which results in 46%/54%. If I include the nexzil servers, I get 42%/58%. That selection includes some practice matches, though, not just the invitational games, so that's probably why it's different than your tournament tally.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 4,983 mod
    edited March 2013
    fanatic wrote: »
    Nope, I restricted it to pretty much the same servers as you, except for the nexzil servers, since I don't know which of of them is private or not, competitive games, 1.-4. march and build 240 only. If I include the nexzil servers, I get 42%/58%. That selection includes some practice matches, though, not just the invitational games, so that's probably why it's different than your tournament tally.
    Just did the same filtering as you and I get
    - Total = 140
    - Marine = 82
    - Alien = 58
    - Alien winrate = 41%

    fffffffffffffff.....

    I'm thankful for ns2stats, but filtered results seem to be annoying inconsistent. The only thing I can think of is that maybe we have different selections under the mod list (I put mine to select all).

    Including non-tourny pcw's is certainly an issue, but what also concerns me is that ns2stats is also missing tourny matches. For whatever reason, 14 of the 86 invitational match stats didn't make it to the ns2stats database/website. That's why I decided to go through and manually count and correct the tourny win/loss stats using a combo of ns2stats, the ENSL website, and the twitch casts to ensure I had an accurate dataset.
    CyberKun
  • ZenuZenu Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72861Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 98
    So the teams sit next to each other in finals and can hear each other? How are they going to coordinate their moves without giving the info to other team at same time?
  • |strofix||strofix| Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members Posts: 1,028 Fully active user
    Zenu wrote: »
    So the teams sit next to each other in finals and can hear each other? How are they going to coordinate their moves without giving the info to other team at same time?

    All proper NS players are masters of misinformation.
  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 1,461 Advanced user
    Zenu wrote: »
    So the teams sit next to each other in finals and can hear each other? How are they going to coordinate their moves without giving the info to other team at same time?

    whisper

    image
  • CrazyEddieCrazyEddie Join Date: 2013-01-08 Member: 178196Members Posts: 657
    Zenu wrote: »
    So the teams sit next to each other in finals and can hear each other? How are they going to coordinate their moves without giving the info to other team at same time?

    Like this.
    ChrisAUSToastie
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 763 Advanced user
    edited March 2013
    Zenu wrote: »
    So the teams sit next to each other in finals and can hear each other? How are they going to coordinate their moves without giving the info to other team at same time?
    Looks like Nexzil will have to toss in as many Americanizations as possible while Archaea talks to each other in some language other than English.
    CrazyEddie wrote: »
    Like this.
    Or that. I'd love to see that.

    Maaaannn. Have to wait all the way till April to see this epic matchup? Time for hibernation mode.
  • AngeluszAngelusz Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 2,601 mod
    I cleaned up the derailed part of the thread, after Strayan's latter post. Please keep things on-topic.
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
    Well let's do a summation:

    Fourgorge makes two points:
    1) Aliens performed worse on average
    2) Nexzil won on a coin flip

    Let's OBJECTIVELY analyse what he said.
    1) Scardybob showed that marines won a lot more matches. Though Fana disagreed with the conclusions of Scardy and Fourgorge, his stats also showed the game being in marine favour (though not as much as Scardy's did).
    So clearly point 1 isn't indefensible so let's stop decrying the poor guy...

    Peripheral point: Hg beat Arc when they are marines. Arc beat Hg when they are marines.
    Arc beat Sauna as marines. Sauna beat Arc as marines.
    How about we put it another way? Arc only ever lost when they were aliens...And three times, was it?

    I do think IT COULD JUST BE changes that means certain strategies as aliens didn't work as well, whereas the same old marine ones would have and of course people had not the time to practise - ergo it's not so much that it's unbalanced, but perhaps that people weren't able to adapt in time



    2) Saunamen won 3 of their 3 marine rounds.
    Nexzil won 4 of their 4 marine rounds.

    How can anyone say they did not win on a coin flip?

    I actually wanted to see Nexzil and Arc in the final but it's a shame it had to happen in this way, ESPECIALLY as Saunamen were playing so incredibly late.


    We mustn't fret too much, however - this is only the second invitational and it was a great one at that!











  • Side1Bu2Rnz9Side1Bu2Rnz9 Join Date: 2012-10-16 Member: 162510Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 289 Advanced user
    Awesome games guys. Really proud of Nexzil for taking an NA team to Germany to crush the Europeans to dust!!! :P JK Great job everyone who competed! Looking forward to the grand final.
  • YoungTrotskyYoungTrotsky Join Date: 2007-03-09 Member: 60307Members Posts: 202
    Zenu wrote: »
    So the teams sit next to each other in finals and can hear each other? How are they going to coordinate their moves without giving the info to other team at same time?

    I know that in many tournaments the players wear earbuds that have the feed from their PC and over the top they wear noise-cancelling earphones that play loud music to drown out any noise from the crowd/other team.

  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation Posts: 780 Fully active user
    Very nice, living in germany for that time i'll be sure to come see the finals, too bad my finnish brethrens didn't reach the finals though, would have been nice to share some brews in Cologne, kudos to anyone who participated in these games.
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & QA Lead, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 3,003 admin
    In recognition of the NSL Invitational, here is my take set to music:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5Vgk8Hc4oc

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  • ShakerShaker Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9582Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 405 Fully active user
    xDragon wrote: »
    More importantly here, congrats to all and I am excited...

    Impossible
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  • honkehonke Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71285Members Posts: 8
    Good job with the streams on saturday and sunday. I really enjoyed watching some of the best games I've ever seen.
    aka Girlie Man
  • CursedCursed Join Date: 2007-04-14 Member: 60632Members Posts: 23
    Wow.
    NA vs. EU
    Such classic. This is the best ns and ns2 has to offer. :)
  • meb2meb2 Join Date: 2010-07-25 Member: 72824Members Posts: 90
    edited March 2013
    ggs well played nexzil and archaea. nxzl is a great team, and they will represent North America well.

    Anyone that says marines wasn't dominant this tournament is talking out of their ass. The combined effects of ping and a patch drop 2 days before the tournament (mine buffs and skulk movement nerfs) made it marine heavy, which was especially prevalent in the Saunamen vs Nexzil matchups.

    GL Nexzil. Make us proud.
  • ToastieToastie Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167351Members Posts: 104
    edited March 2013
    GO TEAM HOME CONTINENT!


    ... Nexzil

    (I still love you Archaea).
    Awesome people made this:
    image
  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 1,779 admin
    Woke up, got the office and still can't believe NA vs EU is happening. AWMAHGERDZ SO EXCITED
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