I've only played a couple games, but it's possible they may have make headway on hit registration. That was one big monkey, and if that is off marines backs then it could certainly change games. Skulks do feel different, but no one seems to be able to put their finger on it.
Right now there are loads of new players and lots of people learning the game. Expect lopsided games for a few weeks before it settles down.
A big factor in the perceived improved hit registration is in the fact that the skulk animations have been patched up. A lot. Now the model twitches around less eratically on the ground as well as on the walls, it's much easier to determine where it's going to go and what parts are actually covered by a hitbox.
As for the rest, I agree with Scardy here, it just needs some time. Aliens will get used to the changes. Beside that, marines actually did get buffed a bit as well (railguns, anyone?), so lets hope the balance comes closer back to the 50/50 we so desire.
Well another big thing is that with the railgun costing only 50 res marines realize they can buy combinations mines welder shotguns and still afford the rail-gun mech when it rolls out.
The speed is also huge too, exos seem to move at 2x the speed. guarding a tech point and a outside base close by isn't a stretch anymore.
BTW dual exo sitting behind supporting the rail guns is quite effective.
Aliens are weak, but you can't kill what you can't hit, aka fade pwning. So each time marines are able to be more accurate, and predict better through models, preformance, hit reg, hurts the aliens exponetially.
Oh and lerks can't hide anymore.
And a prediction, landing pad will be ground zeros for nydus attacks.
BTW whats with the password requirements for these boards, had to make one so convoluted I'll never remember it.
With how awful performance is for most people I'd be surprised win rates favour marines. The new gorge p.res sinks at least address the problem of onos avalanche to some extent, though probably only for now as less people will go gorge and even less people will bother spending p.res on useless babblers.
Also, for what its worth ns2stats shows an even bigger bias towards aliens.
Too many players playing with gorge
Skulk movement nerf (Yes, they did, and I don't recall it being in the patch notes, feel free to correct me if it is)
Yeah, was really surprised, given that they were in a marine base with about four other marines around that just annihilated us. Wouldn't have expected those guys to just ignore them.
If you're implying that UWE has said that 24 is imbalanced - moreso than other player counts, that is, since UWE has admitted that balance is not where they'd like it but they said so without referencing player counts - then I'd like to see a link to such a statement.
If you just mean "_Necro_ and a bunch of other people who agree with me think that 24 is imbalanced", well, then, never mind.
Marines won every of the 5 games I played last night after I finally found a server that had a decent ping and wasn't full. Even in games where the Aliens had 3 hives and Onos the Marines took easily twice as long to finally "finish", then before, as well, seems Marines are DOMINATE in the early game without upgrades.
Really I don't see myself playing very much longer if the Aliens don't get something good to use very soon, babblers are terrible and nobody will even upgrade to tunnels in a week, they are simply too expensive.
Right not Alien team is just about saving for a team-wide Fade/Onos or it seems victory is impossible. Skulks are fodder now to marines who aim even semi-decently (even I got a bunch more kills as marine and I could almost never hit them beforehand).
Game is badly out of balance now in favor of marines, to the point that playing seems rather pointless overall. Aliens are basically auto-loss now unless the marine team is full of "greens" and the alien team is not.
A big factor in the perceived improved hit registration is in the fact that the skulk animations have been patched up. A lot. Now the model twitches around less erratically on the ground as well as on the walls, it's much easier to determine where it's going to go and what parts are actually covered by a hitbox.
So let me get this straight.
UWE fixes the wacked-out skulk animations so that they work properly now, or at least better than they used to. This leads to more accurate hitbox reg, and people are COMPLAINING about it?
railgun kills every alien life form in 1 hit, except onos. there is no hope of getting onos before marines can get exos.
This is complete and utter BS. Fully charged, a railgun shot is only guaranteed to kill any skulk outright. I shot a lerk last night and it showed 200dmg, but he survived. A quick follow up shot finished him off. You cannot one shot gorges at all, much less fades, much much less onos. I was swarmed by 4 onos last night and my fully charged shot went through all of them, doing 200dmg to each.
If you're implying that UWE has said that 24 is imbalanced - moreso than other player counts, that is, since UWE has admitted that balance is not where they'd like it but they said so without referencing player counts - then I'd like to see a link to such a statement.
If you just mean "_Necro_ and a bunch of other people who agree with me think that 24 is imbalanced", well, then, never mind.
"It is known" because it's much easier to get egglocked (especially on public servers). In effect aliens will have more trouble with larger teams. This is common knowledge and has been a problem, for quite some time. The only thing aliens are able to do, is the same thing that's forcing them into the Shift tech tree to be able to cope with the increase of eggs required. Marines on the other hand have a more direct control over their spawn speed with Infantry Portals, they aren't forced into a techtree on bigger servers
If we really want these huge and chaotic games (20p-24p), the spawn system needs an overhaul. But right now the game is balanced around 12p-16p, arguably up to 18p, before it becomes troublesome for the spawn queue.
UWE fixes the wacked-out skulk animations so that they work properly now, or at least better than they used to. This leads to more accurate hitbox reg, and people are COMPLAINING about it?
Seems legit.
Most of the time, the problem wasn't actually with the hitreg, but that the transition animations had the effect of messing with peoples aim. It was simply much harder to track skulks moving between floors, walls, and ceilings.
At the moment, seeing as how it just came out, the vast majority of players are still figuring out what all this new stuff means. A lot of players didn't even know it was coming. The appeal of gorge and babblers is just too great right now as we all figure out how to integrate this stuff into old strategies.
Just give the people some time to digest and test out this content, not to mention the new map, then I'm sure that things will go back to being more balanced. In fact, with the bile changes, I expect to see some even more epic games as aliens now need the more people to successfully rush and take a base.
Good feedback by all. I've only played 2 more games since last night, but both were lopsided marine wins. I've not gotten on my normal favorite servers since they are full. I was on a 24/24 game and a 16/16 game.
I agree, I think the W/L issue might be from learning curve and too. many. gorges. However, Skulks feel way off to me. I'm seeing Skulks just getting slaughtered, which prevents the aliens from expanding and holding RTs, which lets marines rush for exos.
I think pre patch I saw aliens win 60% of the time, maybe a bit more. it was frustrating, but this swing in the polar opposite
direction is more so.
Don't know. When I get a chance tomorrow, I'll play with Skulks as much as possible to see if I can get the mechanics down better. But if the starting life form for one species is suddenly much harder for your average player to use (regardless of being gimped or not), this is going to cause bad imbalance in pubs.
Most of the time, the problem wasn't actually with the hitreg, but that the transition animations had the effect of messing with peoples aim. It was simply much harder to track skulks moving between floors, walls, and ceilings.
I agree with this, the transition animation was twitchy more than it being a hitreg issue. So now I'm wondering why after fixing the twitching they decided to nerf the skulk speed as well? I think the skulk was in a good place against a marine. The skill ceiling was there, the skill floor was there, the only issue left was that twitching and unpredictable animation that caused aim issues for some players.
BTW dual exo sitting behind supporting the rail guns is quite effective.
Aliens tend to make a break for it when they take too much damage. Since a dual exo's guns are not very accurate, the higher alien lifeforms should be hurt when they start fleeing for the door, putting more distance between themselves and the inaccurate miniguns. That's when the railgun steps in and does a Quake 3 style railgun shot from across the room....at least, that's my guess of how UWE intends these to be used.
Too many players playing with gorge
Skulk movement nerf (Yes, they did, and I don't recall it being in the patch notes, feel free to correct me if it is)
pff skulk movement felt sluggish to me yesterday in the previous build. it was probably changed in a previous patch (hadn't played for about a month prior to yesterday)
balance on a whole seems to be better. a lot of close matches today, alien's haven't been able to simply faceroll their way to victory. railgun and exo buffs are very nice, as well as the slight nerf to bile bomb and lerk (and apparently skulk is easier to hit but i haven't noticed that personally).
Just finished up two games which were both alien wins. Yes, definitely not enough data to make broad sweeping balance statements, but with what I'd call an average alien team against an average marine team the aliens were able to shut down the marines in the early game by going to the res point on each side of their base and killing them. The same tactics apply, travel in packs, and be sneaky. When we were doing that, we were winning the majority of engagements. When we weren't, we weren't.
In reference to the bite reg question above by Daveodeth, I have noticed some problems. Not the damage being calculated incorrectly, but landing a hit that should have done damage, hearing the hit sound, and yet scoring no damage.
I agree with this, the transition animation was twitchy more than it being a hitreg issue. So now I'm wondering why after fixing the twitching they decided to nerf the skulk speed as well? I think the skulk was in a good place against a marine. The skill ceiling was there, the skill floor was there, the only issue left was that twitching and unpredictable animation that caused aim issues for some players.
Transition animations was only one major problem with the skulks. The other was the way in which skulks could break the laws of physics beyond reason (e.g. improbable movement paths, air control so powerful you could literally do a horizontal loop and land in your starting location, etc). Nerfing air control was tried, but it led to skulks maneuvering like bricks and unable to fight any marine who had even a basic ability to circle-strafe.
The acceleration decrease and friction increase certainly aren't perfect, but they're a viable stopgap measure until the skulk movement can get finessed some more. I'd only say reverting the changes would be in order if marines start winning 55+% of the matches.
If you're implying that UWE has said that 24 is imbalanced - moreso than other player counts, that is, since UWE has admitted that balance is not where they'd like it but they said so without referencing player counts - then I'd like to see a link to such a statement.
If you just mean "_Necro_ and a bunch of other people who agree with me think that 24 is imbalanced", well, then, never mind.
"It is known" because it's much easier to get egglocked (especially on public servers). In effect aliens will have more trouble with larger teams. This is common knowledge and has been a problem, for quite some time. The only thing aliens are able to do, is the same thing that's forcing them into the Shift tech tree to be able to cope with the increase of eggs required. Marines on the other hand have a more direct control over their spawn speed with Infantry Portals, they aren't forced into a techtree on bigger servers
If we really want these huge and chaotic games (20p-24p), the spawn system needs an overhaul. But right now the game is balanced around 12p-16p, arguably up to 18p, before it becomes troublesome for the spawn queue.
Isn't it kind of ironic that we switched away from the NS 1 economic model BECAUSE of scaling issues? (I.e larger player counts favoring alien teams) Only to end up with a system in which a similar problem exists but with marines instead of with aliens. Granted this time it's not the result of the economic model choice but of simple game mechanics, though we did also end up with worse balance in general.
I'll take poor scaling over barely better scaling with huge imbalances any day.
The acceleration decrease and friction increase certainly aren't perfect, but they're a viable stopgap measure until the skulk movement can get finessed some more. I'd only say reverting the changes would be in order if marines start winning 55+% of the matches.
I sincerely hope you weren't entirely serious about that comment, because if that's how balance is going to be done in this game, we may as well all give up our hopes on ever seeing this game balanced. UWE has in the past shown a tendency of balancing based on shoddy statistics first and experience second, which is troublesome enough as it is.
"It is known" because it's much easier to get egglocked (especially on public servers). In effect aliens will have more trouble with larger teams. This is common knowledge and has been a problem, for quite some time. The only thing aliens are able to do, is the same thing that's forcing them into the Shift tech tree to be able to cope with the increase of eggs required. Marines on the other hand have a more direct control over their spawn speed with Infantry Portals, they aren't forced into a techtree on bigger servers
If we really want these huge and chaotic games (20p-24p), the spawn system needs an overhaul. But right now the game is balanced around 12p-16p, arguably up to 18p, before it becomes troublesome for the spawn queue.
I really hope spawn changes come similar to the balance mod. Wave spawn has to go, it causes more problems than it solves.
I agree with this, the transition animation was twitchy more than it being a hitreg issue. So now I'm wondering why after fixing the twitching they decided to nerf the skulk speed as well? I think the skulk was in a good place against a marine. The skill ceiling was there, the skill floor was there, the only issue left was that twitching and unpredictable animation that caused aim issues for some players.
Transition animations was only one major problem with the skulks. The other was the way in which skulks could break the laws of physics beyond reason (e.g. improbable movement paths, air control so powerful you could literally do a horizontal loop and land in your starting location, etc). Nerfing air control was tried, but it led to skulks maneuvering like bricks and unable to fight any marine who had even a basic ability to circle-strafe.
The acceleration decrease and friction increase certainly aren't perfect, but they're a viable stopgap measure until the skulk movement can get finessed some more. I'd only say reverting the changes would be in order if marines start winning 55+% of the matches.
i think ppl would like some clarity about wall-jumping.
it's changed a bunch of times since release, and right now the most streamlined method i can find is to press space as fast as humanly possible. timing doesn't work for me, because if you lag slightly or misjudge the floor by 1 pixel then you lose all momentum.
Still have yet to see an alien victory since the patch, and I've been playing since it launched.
I saw one last night (in the only full round that I played). Of course, it was pretty much because the marines had no clue what they were doing (and there was only one green, so that shouldn't be the reason why). I only saw maybe two other people with jetpacks the whole round, no one would chase down Oni (granted, that's hard to do when you don't get a jetpack), people would grab an exo and go off on their own (I admit, I did this myself to try out the railgun, but only after it was clear that we were going to lose anyway). It was frustrating, because we were obviously winning in the first half of the game.
Comments
A big factor in the perceived improved hit registration is in the fact that the skulk animations have been patched up. A lot. Now the model twitches around less eratically on the ground as well as on the walls, it's much easier to determine where it's going to go and what parts are actually covered by a hitbox.
As for the rest, I agree with Scardy here, it just needs some time. Aliens will get used to the changes. Beside that, marines actually did get buffed a bit as well (railguns, anyone?), so lets hope the balance comes closer back to the 50/50 we so desire.
anywhere from four to SIX exos (and 2-4 mac to repair) assaulting us BEFORE the six minute mark. almost impossible to defend against.
railgun kills every alien life form in 1 hit, except onos. there is no hope of getting onos before marines can get exos.
The speed is also huge too, exos seem to move at 2x the speed. guarding a tech point and a outside base close by isn't a stretch anymore.
BTW dual exo sitting behind supporting the rail guns is quite effective.
Aliens are weak, but you can't kill what you can't hit, aka fade pwning. So each time marines are able to be more accurate, and predict better through models, preformance, hit reg, hurts the aliens exponetially.
Oh and lerks can't hide anymore.
And a prediction, landing pad will be ground zeros for nydus attacks.
BTW whats with the password requirements for these boards, had to make one so convoluted I'll never remember it.
Also, for what its worth ns2stats shows an even bigger bias towards aliens.
NS2Stats does not even have 240 values yet..
Skulk movement nerf (Yes, they did, and I don't recall it being in the patch notes, feel free to correct me if it is)
Those things are fearless, even without their great gorge leader.
If you're implying that UWE has said that 24 is imbalanced - moreso than other player counts, that is, since UWE has admitted that balance is not where they'd like it but they said so without referencing player counts - then I'd like to see a link to such a statement.
If you just mean "_Necro_ and a bunch of other people who agree with me think that 24 is imbalanced", well, then, never mind.
Really I don't see myself playing very much longer if the Aliens don't get something good to use very soon, babblers are terrible and nobody will even upgrade to tunnels in a week, they are simply too expensive.
Right not Alien team is just about saving for a team-wide Fade/Onos or it seems victory is impossible. Skulks are fodder now to marines who aim even semi-decently (even I got a bunch more kills as marine and I could almost never hit them beforehand).
Game is badly out of balance now in favor of marines, to the point that playing seems rather pointless overall. Aliens are basically auto-loss now unless the marine team is full of "greens" and the alien team is not.
So let me get this straight.
UWE fixes the wacked-out skulk animations so that they work properly now, or at least better than they used to. This leads to more accurate hitbox reg, and people are COMPLAINING about it?
Seems legit.
This is complete and utter BS. Fully charged, a railgun shot is only guaranteed to kill any skulk outright. I shot a lerk last night and it showed 200dmg, but he survived. A quick follow up shot finished him off. You cannot one shot gorges at all, much less fades, much much less onos. I was swarmed by 4 onos last night and my fully charged shot went through all of them, doing 200dmg to each.
"It is known" because it's much easier to get egglocked (especially on public servers). In effect aliens will have more trouble with larger teams. This is common knowledge and has been a problem, for quite some time. The only thing aliens are able to do, is the same thing that's forcing them into the Shift tech tree to be able to cope with the increase of eggs required. Marines on the other hand have a more direct control over their spawn speed with Infantry Portals, they aren't forced into a techtree on bigger servers
If we really want these huge and chaotic games (20p-24p), the spawn system needs an overhaul. But right now the game is balanced around 12p-16p, arguably up to 18p, before it becomes troublesome for the spawn queue.
Just give the people some time to digest and test out this content, not to mention the new map, then I'm sure that things will go back to being more balanced. In fact, with the bile changes, I expect to see some even more epic games as aliens now need the more people to successfully rush and take a base.
I agree, I think the W/L issue might be from learning curve and too. many. gorges. However, Skulks feel way off to me. I'm seeing Skulks just getting slaughtered, which prevents the aliens from expanding and holding RTs, which lets marines rush for exos.
I think pre patch I saw aliens win 60% of the time, maybe a bit more. it was frustrating, but this swing in the polar opposite
direction is more so.
Don't know. When I get a chance tomorrow, I'll play with Skulks as much as possible to see if I can get the mechanics down better. But if the starting life form for one species is suddenly much harder for your average player to use (regardless of being gimped or not), this is going to cause bad imbalance in pubs.
I agree with this, the transition animation was twitchy more than it being a hitreg issue. So now I'm wondering why after fixing the twitching they decided to nerf the skulk speed as well? I think the skulk was in a good place against a marine. The skill ceiling was there, the skill floor was there, the only issue left was that twitching and unpredictable animation that caused aim issues for some players.
Aliens tend to make a break for it when they take too much damage. Since a dual exo's guns are not very accurate, the higher alien lifeforms should be hurt when they start fleeing for the door, putting more distance between themselves and the inaccurate miniguns. That's when the railgun steps in and does a Quake 3 style railgun shot from across the room....at least, that's my guess of how UWE intends these to be used.
pff skulk movement felt sluggish to me yesterday in the previous build. it was probably changed in a previous patch (hadn't played for about a month prior to yesterday)
balance on a whole seems to be better. a lot of close matches today, alien's haven't been able to simply faceroll their way to victory. railgun and exo buffs are very nice, as well as the slight nerf to bile bomb and lerk (and apparently skulk is easier to hit but i haven't noticed that personally).
In reference to the bite reg question above by Daveodeth, I have noticed some problems. Not the damage being calculated incorrectly, but landing a hit that should have done damage, hearing the hit sound, and yet scoring no damage.
The acceleration decrease and friction increase certainly aren't perfect, but they're a viable stopgap measure until the skulk movement can get finessed some more. I'd only say reverting the changes would be in order if marines start winning 55+% of the matches.
Isn't it kind of ironic that we switched away from the NS 1 economic model BECAUSE of scaling issues? (I.e larger player counts favoring alien teams) Only to end up with a system in which a similar problem exists but with marines instead of with aliens. Granted this time it's not the result of the economic model choice but of simple game mechanics, though we did also end up with worse balance in general.
I'll take poor scaling over barely better scaling with huge imbalances any day.
I sincerely hope you weren't entirely serious about that comment, because if that's how balance is going to be done in this game, we may as well all give up our hopes on ever seeing this game balanced. UWE has in the past shown a tendency of balancing based on shoddy statistics first and experience second, which is troublesome enough as it is.
I really hope spawn changes come similar to the balance mod. Wave spawn has to go, it causes more problems than it solves.
i think ppl would like some clarity about wall-jumping.
it's changed a bunch of times since release, and right now the most streamlined method i can find is to press space as fast as humanly possible. timing doesn't work for me, because if you lag slightly or misjudge the floor by 1 pixel then you lose all momentum.
How is that any different than aliens all going onos to end it?