lol, life isn't fair. He was asking why competitive players play on pubs (Which I don't see a problem with at all) not asking why he can't have a puppy.
Does the argument not boil down to experienced players dominating rookies when veterans are present on rookie-friendly servers? Thus, said Rookies (not necessarily the OP) come to the forums to complain/ask about it when the answer is very simple.
Life not being fair, while yes, has little relevance to the actual situation at hand, can still relate to how Rookies might feel when dealing with this scenario. I'm just cementing the fact.
I get that, I just don't see the big deal. I don't see what the problem is. If they are stacking, leave, if they are being an ass, leave, if anything X that rages you, LEAVE.
If you are just bad, then yes, play, lose, get better. I don't understand why this is even a problem.
Because the point of a rookie FRIENDLY server is to be a place where advanced players and pros can teach new players how to play without them having to fear being kicked, banned, or yelled at. It completely defeats the purpose of a rookie FRIENDLY server if all the good players leave; then it turns into a rookie ONLY server.
As for griefing, that is another issue entirely and is not normally tolerated on quality rookie servers.
The intent behind rookie servers is a place to provide rookies a friendly atmosphere to ask questions and not get ridiculed for things incorrectly. It has nothing to do with who can join what server. That is for server admins to decide.
ok, i think i have a workable solution for the rookie friendly servers.
not every player is in general rookie friendly, most players dont want to explain things and/or are anoyed by rookie players doing rookie things.
but there is a breed of players that dont mind beeing asked stupid questions and/or in general try to help rookies and/or are not anoyed by rookies doing rookie things.
at the moment we have normal players and rookies. what about having rookie friendly players? in like blue or something.
someone like me, not bothered by a first time commander, giving tipps and explaining things in general could just activate a rookie friendly tag(just like the rookie tag only other color). i would have it on most of the time because its my default state of mind, if i have a bad day or dont feel like explaining things i just turn it off.
here is the kicker, to join a rookie friendlie server, you would need to be a rookie or aktivly declare yourself as rookiefriendly.
maybe i should make a thread in ideas and suggestions about this... maybe later, have to go home now.
For those of you who think that my solution in the first post is the only thing that matters, you should really read the whole thread. This is not about whether or not good players should be able to join rookie servers, it's about whether or not rookie servers provide a friendly atmosphere to new players. In the case of 3-4 of my friends (I have more that play this game, I am just addressing this specific issue), they had a consistently bad experience because of the issue I mentioned.
It doesn't seem like that bad of an issue, to be honest, but something that should still be addressed. Like I said, the specific case in which I am talking about is pub stomping/stacking by skilled players in rookie servers. They don't have an intention to teach, they only have an intention of stroking their ego by owning mass amounts of nubs. For those of you who actively help, and teach new players should have no issue with this problem, as you are not part of that ego crowd.
If the servers that aren't marked rookie friendly are full or completely empty, I will join whatever server has players in it as long as it's not >20 players and <150 ping. Consider that and how small the community is, it really narrows down the amount of servers to choose from.
man, if you're going to whine about good players ruining it for newbs, at least name someone actually good. adhd is like a perma-bench warmer that gets crushed by anyone decent
I get that, I just don't see the big deal. I don't see what the problem is. If they are stacking, leave, if they are being an ass, leave, if anything X that rages you, LEAVE.
If you are just bad, then yes, play, lose, get better. I don't understand why this is even a problem.
I sure hope you enjoy not playing Natural Selection 2 then because following your timeless advice of ignoring the problem I'd be guaranteed to leave at least 5 servers a night across the AusNS side of the house, get kicked by JP hosted servers because admins get upset when someone with 130+ ping kills them, the 2 SEA servers are never up before 2am for some reason and American servers have 10 voting mods before rounds start and boot 200+ ping in any community server or concede every game between 5-8 minutes.
If NS2 changed the in game name system to somehow show all used aliases I'd fucking buy 50 copies of this game on a stream, aliasing enables so much shittery in pubs alone and taking the possibility of it from the game side would be perfect, every night some random starts gobbing off to me in pubs at 1am and if I can be fucked checking my recently played with the next morning there's always clan members sitting in it, every fucking time, if I had a dollar for this alone I could buy 50 copies of the game already but I'd have no one to give it to.
There's a reason why NS2 has less concurrent players than Football Manager Simulator 2007 and it's the representation of the pillars of the community we call comp players.
edit: tl;dr NS2 clans stack pubs to be relevant, official response is deal with it.
I wrote a big post, but it's all been said before and ultimately doesn't matter. The internet is full of trolls and no amount of logic or reason will change their behavior.
All-In are probably the most notorious team stacking pubstompers in the game.
Meh, I rarely join an NS2 pub these days and most All-In members only pub by themselves. The few times I play with edak or shino I purposely counter "stack" to troll them. It's way more fun and hilarious to kill a good player than stomp with them. Contrary to popular belief the "Competitive team stacking in pubs" is mostly a myth or rarely seen in my experience. If it happens it is rare, and when it does happen it isn't really wrong either. There have been games where edak and I will pick marines and both get stupid high KDR's and our team still loses. It all stems from an unconscious jealously and assumptions that the "good" player is full of himself or has a bad will.
man, if you're going to whine about good players ruining it for newbs, at least name someone actually good. adhd is like a perma-bench warmer that gets crushed by anyone decent
I have no idea who you are, but I will assume you are affiliated with KKG by the sound of your ignorant remarks.
P.S. youtube video removed. I really only made it to help promote the game at release and I just got a copy of sony vegas and wanted to try it out. The fact I got nearly 2,000 views from a video made in 2 hours (Including gameplay) is quite comical.
man, if you're going to whine about good players ruining it for newbs, at least name someone actually good. adhd is like a perma-bench warmer that gets crushed by anyone decent
lol, i've never seen him play. I've only pubbed with a couple guys from all-in, they didn't stack, but nobody complained about them either.
I get that, I just don't see the big deal. I don't see what the problem is. If they are stacking, leave, if they are being an ass, leave, if anything X that rages you, LEAVE.
If you are just bad, then yes, play, lose, get better. I don't understand why this is even a problem.
I sure hope you enjoy not playing Natural Selection 2 then because following your timeless advice of ignoring the problem I'd be guaranteed to leave at least 5 servers a night across the AusNS side of the house, get kicked by JP hosted servers because admins get upset when someone with 130+ ping kills them, the 2 SEA servers are never up before 2am for some reason and American servers have 10 voting mods before rounds start and boot 200+ ping in any community server or concede every game between 5-8 minutes.
If NS2 changed the in game name system to somehow show all used aliases I'd fucking buy 50 copies of this game on a stream, aliasing enables so much shittery in pubs alone and taking the possibility of it from the game side would be perfect, every night some random starts gobbing off to me in pubs at 1am and if I can be fucked checking my recently played with the next morning there's always clan members sitting in it, every fucking time, if I had a dollar for this alone I could buy 50 copies of the game already but I'd have no one to give it to.
There's a reason why NS2 has less concurrent players than Football Manager Simulator 2007 and it's the representation of the pillars of the community we call comp players.
edit: tl;dr NS2 clans stack pubs to be relevant, official response is deal with it.
You know what man? I'll level with you on a few things. I played A LOT of NS1 comp. A lot. I currently casually scrim with a team, and you wanna know a secret? There is NO difference in clan vs pub as far as attitude. There are cockwads in pubs, and there are in clans. The team I currently play with is helpful, gives advice, and tries to be a positive force in the gather/competitive/pub environment. I personally am constantly advising noobs, saying please ask questions, and trying to help.
No clan worth anything will pubstomp to feel relevant. Because, guess what: Teams that do that get routinely insulted by the real teams. I'm sorry if someone was an ass to you, but you know what? It's the internet. Get a thicker skin. You can flag me for trolling all day, but the fact of the matter is, GOOD competitive players have a positive impact on the game. There are bad people in all walks of life.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Also competitive does not equal good player. It increases the chance that a comp player is good, but its not a guarantee.
Noone says a comp player is nice, it also just increases a chance he/she is more serious.
Aaaaah.. some weeks back I was on a newbie server again, educating the masses, when a clan hopped in and started stacking.
We were all like 'ow damn' as many of my team were newbies.
So I shoved a newbie who listens in to hive, and we started our counter campaign.
Well over a hour later we won.
Those clanners got, hopefully, a little lesson in respecting newb players.
the newbies learned something.
I had a good match for once.
All win win there. having nonnewbs on newbie servers isnt complete bad.
Appreciated responses from everyone. I hope that this didn't result in too much of ADHD or All-In being put on blast, I was really just trying to address the issue of a proper learning environment for newer gamers.
Any further posts please be on-topic and don't hate on each other.
Appreciated responses from everyone. I hope that this didn't result in too much of ADHD or All-In being put on blast, I was really just trying to address the issue of a proper learning environment for newer gamers.
Any further posts please be on-topic and don't hate on each other.
I do have one request. Can you peove this is even happening? You claim it is why your friends won't pkay, which means it must be hard to find games without comp players syltacking teams.
Can you join a few games tonight and show us some screen shots of this happening? I play a lot and I do not believe you.
I do have one request. Can you peove this is even happening? You claim it is why your friends won't pkay, which means it must be hard to find games without comp players syltacking teams.
Can you join a few games tonight and show us some screen shots of this happening? I play a lot and I do not believe you.
I don't think that my experience will be reliable, as I don't have the same perspective as the people I know that have quit, (it's also based on luck) but I sure will try to get some proof for you.
You don't really need to believe me to understand the issue, as it is prevalent as many in the thread have confirmed. Just take a look back at the posts of frustrated new players who feel the same way as a few of my friends.
The fact that he took it down might indicate that the initial assumptions about his trolling may not be fully substantiated.
Anyone who claims ADHD is a troll is just trying to derail the thread, I'm sure most of us don't even know him very well, and judging by his response I'd say he's a fairly nice guy.
But this thread is not about ADHD, he was merely an example I provided in lieu of other examples.
I do have one request. Can you peove this is even happening? You claim it is why your friends won't pkay, which means it must be hard to find games without comp players syltacking teams.
Can you join a few games tonight and show us some screen shots of this happening? I play a lot and I do not believe you.
I don't think that my experience will be reliable, as I don't have the same perspective as the people I know that have quit, (it's also based on luck) but I sure will try to get some proof for you.
You don't really need to believe me to understand the issue, as it is prevalent as many in the thread have confirmed. Just take a look back at the posts of frustrated new players who feel the same way as a few of my friends.
There is nothing subjective about what you are claiming. Take a SS. Show the pro players stacking teams. It isn't too hard to identify them. They have steam ids and probably clan tags(which you stated they did). If it is so common that your friends couldn't play without it happening, you should have no problem showing multiple instances of this tonight.
Of course its subjective, a weaker team stacking a pub is more then enough to crush most servers, but a group of veteran pub stars could probably take down quite a few teams (see KKGs newish comp team).
I suspect what most people on here are experiencing as "pro" team stacking/pub stomping are actually weaker teams stacking pubs, maybe teams who don't even scrim but are just friends who play together, and then when the pubbers see a bunch of clan tags on the same team kicking their butts they just want to explain why they are losing. Really high level players don't pub too much, and when they do they tend to pub alone just for warm-up or for lols.
Anyway the fact of the matter is, unless you live in australia, don't play on rookie servers if your presence determines the outcome of the game.
Anyway, if people are worried about stacked teams (clan stack, friends stack, stack stack, idk) there is a simple solution. Join a server that is administered well. Good admins will not stand for constant team stacking. This has been mentioned several times in this thread. Please try it. It works.
Referring to the remarks made against my team, we mostly pub solo or with a single friend. Rarely will you see more than 2 of us in a server at the same time. I pub for two reasons: to practice my aim and skills, and to have FUN. I love NS2 and enjoy playing it often lol. Stacking a team doesn't accomplish anything. Its boring, and doesn't help me improve.
P.S. ADHD you're a ____bag :P Put your video back up. haha
There is nothing subjective about what you are claiming. Take a SS. Show the pro players stacking teams. It isn't too hard to identify them. They have steam ids and probably clan tags(which you stated they did). If it is so common that your friends couldn't play without it happening, you should have no problem showing multiple instances of this tonight.
I think your friends just don't like the game.
You really should think about what you are saying. The issue I mention is not subjective, but the evidence I provide is (as most evidence is).
Also, because of the ability to change your name at will in NS2, its not as easy to catch this as you say it is. Coupled with the fact that I usually don't play in rookie servers, maybe you should change your attitude from 'do it or don't talk' to 'maybe you're right, lets investigate.'
Being willing to accept a possible truth is just as difficult as being willing to deny one.
Anyway, if people are worried about stacked teams (clan stack, friends stack, stack stack, idk) there is a simple solution. Join a server that is administered well. Good admins will not stand for constant team stacking. This has been mentioned several times in this thread. Please try it. It works.
Referring to the remarks made against my team, we mostly pub solo or with a single friend. Rarely will you see more than 2 of us in a server at the same time. I pub for two reasons: to practice my aim and skills, and to have FUN. I love NS2 and enjoy playing it often lol. Stacking a team doesn't accomplish anything. Its boring, and doesn't help me improve.
P.S. ADHD you're a ____bag :P Put your video back up. haha
Once they fix demo playback I'll make an All-In frag video for us. Matches and scrims only of course.
Waiting an hour for matchmaking, what a terrific idea.
Soft matchmaking could work well even with NS2's small playerbase. Something like this:
a) The server browser shows the average skill rating of the players currently on each server, and
b) The ready room (or tab playerlist) shows the average skill rating of the players currently on each team.
People could still join any server and team just like now. But with the extra information, people would be able to make better balanced matches all by themselves without needing the overhead (and waiting times) of forced matchmaking.
If you want a challenge, join a server with a high skill rating. If you want an easy game, join a low one. Once you're in a server, stack the teams any way you'd like - but if the playerlist shows that one team is higher-skilled, expect the other team to have a tough time. And if the skill difference is huge, expect a stomping, or just F4 and shuffle the teams to get a closer (and more fun) match.
This would be a pretty simple change (the hardest part is generating the player rating, but UWE has all the stats they need to do this), but even just this much would go a long way towards getting more games that were more fun because they were more even.
There is nothing subjective about what you are claiming. Take a SS. Show the pro players stacking teams. It isn't too hard to identify them. They have steam ids and probably clan tags(which you stated they did). If it is so common that your friends couldn't play without it happening, you should have no problem showing multiple instances of this tonight.
I think your friends just don't like the game.
You really should think about what you are saying. The issue I mention is not subjective, but the evidence I provide is (as most evidence is).
Also, because of the ability to change your name at will in NS2, its not as easy to catch this as you say it is. Coupled with the fact that I usually don't play in rookie servers, maybe you should change your attitude from 'do it or don't talk' to 'maybe you're right, lets investigate.'
Being willing to accept a possible truth is just as difficult as being willing to deny one.
I have investigated. That is my entire point. I just don't see it happening. I guarantee it does, but it isn't this big problem that is keeping your friends away.
Comments
Does the argument not boil down to experienced players dominating rookies when veterans are present on rookie-friendly servers? Thus, said Rookies (not necessarily the OP) come to the forums to complain/ask about it when the answer is very simple.
Life not being fair, while yes, has little relevance to the actual situation at hand, can still relate to how Rookies might feel when dealing with this scenario. I'm just cementing the fact.
If you are just bad, then yes, play, lose, get better. I don't understand why this is even a problem.
As for griefing, that is another issue entirely and is not normally tolerated on quality rookie servers.
/thread
not every player is in general rookie friendly, most players dont want to explain things and/or are anoyed by rookie players doing rookie things.
but there is a breed of players that dont mind beeing asked stupid questions and/or in general try to help rookies and/or are not anoyed by rookies doing rookie things.
at the moment we have normal players and rookies. what about having rookie friendly players? in like blue or something.
someone like me, not bothered by a first time commander, giving tipps and explaining things in general could just activate a rookie friendly tag(just like the rookie tag only other color). i would have it on most of the time because its my default state of mind, if i have a bad day or dont feel like explaining things i just turn it off.
here is the kicker, to join a rookie friendlie server, you would need to be a rookie or aktivly declare yourself as rookiefriendly.
maybe i should make a thread in ideas and suggestions about this... maybe later, have to go home now.
For those of you who think that my solution in the first post is the only thing that matters, you should really read the whole thread. This is not about whether or not good players should be able to join rookie servers, it's about whether or not rookie servers provide a friendly atmosphere to new players. In the case of 3-4 of my friends (I have more that play this game, I am just addressing this specific issue), they had a consistently bad experience because of the issue I mentioned.
It doesn't seem like that bad of an issue, to be honest, but something that should still be addressed. Like I said, the specific case in which I am talking about is pub stomping/stacking by skilled players in rookie servers. They don't have an intention to teach, they only have an intention of stroking their ego by owning mass amounts of nubs. For those of you who actively help, and teach new players should have no issue with this problem, as you are not part of that ego crowd.
I sure hope you enjoy not playing Natural Selection 2 then because following your timeless advice of ignoring the problem I'd be guaranteed to leave at least 5 servers a night across the AusNS side of the house, get kicked by JP hosted servers because admins get upset when someone with 130+ ping kills them, the 2 SEA servers are never up before 2am for some reason and American servers have 10 voting mods before rounds start and boot 200+ ping in any community server or concede every game between 5-8 minutes.
If NS2 changed the in game name system to somehow show all used aliases I'd fucking buy 50 copies of this game on a stream, aliasing enables so much shittery in pubs alone and taking the possibility of it from the game side would be perfect, every night some random starts gobbing off to me in pubs at 1am and if I can be fucked checking my recently played with the next morning there's always clan members sitting in it, every fucking time, if I had a dollar for this alone I could buy 50 copies of the game already but I'd have no one to give it to.
Flagged for trolling.
There's a reason why NS2 has less concurrent players than Football Manager Simulator 2007 and it's the representation of the pillars of the community we call comp players.
edit: tl;dr NS2 clans stack pubs to be relevant, official response is deal with it.
Meh, I rarely join an NS2 pub these days and most All-In members only pub by themselves. The few times I play with edak or shino I purposely counter "stack" to troll them. It's way more fun and hilarious to kill a good player than stomp with them. Contrary to popular belief the "Competitive team stacking in pubs" is mostly a myth or rarely seen in my experience. If it happens it is rare, and when it does happen it isn't really wrong either. There have been games where edak and I will pick marines and both get stupid high KDR's and our team still loses. It all stems from an unconscious jealously and assumptions that the "good" player is full of himself or has a bad will.
I have no idea who you are, but I will assume you are affiliated with KKG by the sound of your ignorant remarks.
P.S. youtube video removed. I really only made it to help promote the game at release and I just got a copy of sony vegas and wanted to try it out. The fact I got nearly 2,000 views from a video made in 2 hours (Including gameplay) is quite comical.
lol, i've never seen him play. I've only pubbed with a couple guys from all-in, they didn't stack, but nobody complained about them either.
You know what man? I'll level with you on a few things. I played A LOT of NS1 comp. A lot. I currently casually scrim with a team, and you wanna know a secret? There is NO difference in clan vs pub as far as attitude. There are cockwads in pubs, and there are in clans. The team I currently play with is helpful, gives advice, and tries to be a positive force in the gather/competitive/pub environment. I personally am constantly advising noobs, saying please ask questions, and trying to help.
No clan worth anything will pubstomp to feel relevant. Because, guess what: Teams that do that get routinely insulted by the real teams. I'm sorry if someone was an ass to you, but you know what? It's the internet. Get a thicker skin. You can flag me for trolling all day, but the fact of the matter is, GOOD competitive players have a positive impact on the game. There are bad people in all walks of life.
Noone says a comp player is nice, it also just increases a chance he/she is more serious.
Aaaaah.. some weeks back I was on a newbie server again, educating the masses, when a clan hopped in and started stacking.
We were all like 'ow damn' as many of my team were newbies.
So I shoved a newbie who listens in to hive, and we started our counter campaign.
Well over a hour later we won.
Those clanners got, hopefully, a little lesson in respecting newb players.
the newbies learned something.
I had a good match for once.
All win win there. having nonnewbs on newbie servers isnt complete bad.
Any further posts please be on-topic and don't hate on each other.
I do have one request. Can you peove this is even happening? You claim it is why your friends won't pkay, which means it must be hard to find games without comp players syltacking teams.
Can you join a few games tonight and show us some screen shots of this happening? I play a lot and I do not believe you.
I don't think that my experience will be reliable, as I don't have the same perspective as the people I know that have quit, (it's also based on luck) but I sure will try to get some proof for you.
You don't really need to believe me to understand the issue, as it is prevalent as many in the thread have confirmed. Just take a look back at the posts of frustrated new players who feel the same way as a few of my friends.
Anyone who claims ADHD is a troll is just trying to derail the thread, I'm sure most of us don't even know him very well, and judging by his response I'd say he's a fairly nice guy.
But this thread is not about ADHD, he was merely an example I provided in lieu of other examples.
There is nothing subjective about what you are claiming. Take a SS. Show the pro players stacking teams. It isn't too hard to identify them. They have steam ids and probably clan tags(which you stated they did). If it is so common that your friends couldn't play without it happening, you should have no problem showing multiple instances of this tonight.
I think your friends just don't like the game.
I suspect what most people on here are experiencing as "pro" team stacking/pub stomping are actually weaker teams stacking pubs, maybe teams who don't even scrim but are just friends who play together, and then when the pubbers see a bunch of clan tags on the same team kicking their butts they just want to explain why they are losing. Really high level players don't pub too much, and when they do they tend to pub alone just for warm-up or for lols.
Anyway the fact of the matter is, unless you live in australia, don't play on rookie servers if your presence determines the outcome of the game.
Anyway, if people are worried about stacked teams (clan stack, friends stack, stack stack, idk) there is a simple solution. Join a server that is administered well. Good admins will not stand for constant team stacking. This has been mentioned several times in this thread. Please try it. It works.
Referring to the remarks made against my team, we mostly pub solo or with a single friend. Rarely will you see more than 2 of us in a server at the same time. I pub for two reasons: to practice my aim and skills, and to have FUN. I love NS2 and enjoy playing it often lol. Stacking a team doesn't accomplish anything. Its boring, and doesn't help me improve.
P.S. ADHD you're a ____bag :P Put your video back up. haha
You really should think about what you are saying. The issue I mention is not subjective, but the evidence I provide is (as most evidence is).
Also, because of the ability to change your name at will in NS2, its not as easy to catch this as you say it is. Coupled with the fact that I usually don't play in rookie servers, maybe you should change your attitude from 'do it or don't talk' to 'maybe you're right, lets investigate.'
Being willing to accept a possible truth is just as difficult as being willing to deny one.
Once they fix demo playback I'll make an All-In frag video for us. Matches and scrims only of course.
Soft matchmaking could work well even with NS2's small playerbase. Something like this:
a) The server browser shows the average skill rating of the players currently on each server, and
b) The ready room (or tab playerlist) shows the average skill rating of the players currently on each team.
People could still join any server and team just like now. But with the extra information, people would be able to make better balanced matches all by themselves without needing the overhead (and waiting times) of forced matchmaking.
If you want a challenge, join a server with a high skill rating. If you want an easy game, join a low one. Once you're in a server, stack the teams any way you'd like - but if the playerlist shows that one team is higher-skilled, expect the other team to have a tough time. And if the skill difference is huge, expect a stomping, or just F4 and shuffle the teams to get a closer (and more fun) match.
This would be a pretty simple change (the hardest part is generating the player rating, but UWE has all the stats they need to do this), but even just this much would go a long way towards getting more games that were more fun because they were more even.
I have investigated. That is my entire point. I just don't see it happening. I guarantee it does, but it isn't this big problem that is keeping your friends away.