Your opinion on concede
bdawg88
Join Date: 2013-02-09 Member: 182915Members
Join Date: 2013-02-09 Member: 182915Members
Most of the games I play, as soon as the first sign we are loosing everyone jumps to concede, back in NS1 we didn't have such a thing, and some of the best games were as a result of an epic comeback, I would like to see the feature removed, what are your thoughts?
Comments
Something needs to be added though, like smack-talk from marines too, or aliens that chuckle and growl in celebration.
*LOSING, LOSING, DAMNIT OP.
Games that WERE bad enough, people just F4'd before, but it was a lot less common.
First, there are many times in the game when you reach a point where you can NOT win. This is usually the marines, but aliens have it too. The problem is that when a team is no longer able to win, the game should END. If your team's actions have caused irreparable damage to your chances to win, then the game should end.
No one likes playing a game they know they are going to lose.
For example, if - for the marines - losing your second comm chair and tech point means you have lost, then end the game.
I'm quite happy to use concede in games where I know the team is fighting for something they will never have. When you have an alien team with 4 Onos and you're down to your last tech point, what is the value in playing for another 15 minutes when you will still lose?
This has been a problem for a while now, and I know the developers are aware of it and they are considering options.
Secondly, NS2 has very little forgiveness. For example, if on the marine team you build three extractors, and they are killed within a minute of being built, the game is over. You won't recover from that since you are now about 5 minutes behind the alien team and they likely have 5+ harvesters. It's over, and you haven't even reached the 5 minute mark in the game. Or aliens have rushed your spawn and taken out your IP and armory before your team can get back, and when they are busy rebuilding the aliens kill both marine extractors that have been built. That's game over folks. Is there some reason to play for 15 minutes until you get rolled by an Onos parade?
So yeah, I support concede.
- Show each team how close they are to a successful vote concede
- Change the ending from instant to quickly inevitable (e.g. disabling spawning, stopping res flow, increasing damage taken for team that concedes)
A one base turtle like you described is like a 99.999% chance to lose, the only things that could actually save it are at best illegitimate. Either people quit or quit trying or someone else joins who completely outclasses the other team. I don't think a last minute join is really fair even ignoring the fact that I don't think someone joining who outclasses everyone else by enough to pull something like that off is fair to start with.
Losing your extractors like you describe is more like a 90-95% chance to lose. It hurts, and coming back is unlikely, but it is certainly possible. Same with your IP scenario.
The game needs better comeback mechanics. Surviving a last stand for long enough should provide you with some method of escaping it for starters. They could also potentially tweak things like res flow so that early losses are only a temporary setback rather than a snowball. That would go for both teams.
I agree that comebacks are cool and all, but they don't happen out of nowhere, there is no coming back if you don't have a second hive and have only celerity against a3/w3 jp shotguns.
Or if you are a marine a0/w0, 2 rts max and fighting lerks and fades.
Even though concede might make epic comebacks not happen, in my opinion the better option is to just play a new round/map.
Honestly, if 80% of your team wants to concede, then there is essentially no chance of pulling that game back from the brink. People actually need to want to win in order for that to happen.
I don't delude myself into thinking that a truly losing team can make a comeback, that's not why I play on in a turtle. I find turtles immensely fun, to a point.
Late-game skills are lacking enough in the NS2 community. If all a rookie ever plays is a game that gets conceded, how will they ever know what the end game looks like?
Furthermore, there's a superior learning curve in this game. Not just in the novel idea of teamwork, but in getting a feel for the weapons and positions. So in my opinion, any second a rookie gets to get acquainted with the later game is a good second.
So on your standard non-rookie servers, go ahead and concede, you know that the game's over and you're all eager to get a new one started. You don't need the practice desperately. On the rookie servers, don't pressure the greenies to concede, especially if the game is like 5 minutes from being over. You can expedite the game end in other ways, order an all out assault on a least defended hive, make a push and leave the base fully exposed. Explain that its a horrible idea, but the game's over so we might as well take a hive down with us. Have fun with it. It is a game.
I think alerting both teams that a concede vote is underway is needed at the very least..would make it less of a surprise when it happens.
Perhaps a timer for 2 min is applied upon concede being voted in...before an alien bio-bomb or marine nuke hits the map.
Personally I dont like f4, recycle or concede but concede is the best of the 3 choices.
F4 means autobalance which means you make someone on the winning side sit out and wait.
Recycle can only be done by 1 team and requires only 1 persons opinion to be considered.
Concede requires the majority of a team has voted for it.
Whilst I would rather the game got played out I would take a concede vote over watching the server empty as people rage quit.
For example SC2 (well, any game really), as soon as the game is "over" the losing player calls gg.
it's not about giving up, it's about not wasting time for both sides.
That's sounds really boring and painful for the marine team.
In a nutshell, what you guys are discusssing is a feature that WE as PLAYERS control. It's not like the game forces concede on a team, the players do that. If there truly are enough people that agree with it being a bad feature, it would not be used. If it is being used, then obviously more people do not agree, accept it and move on with your life.
And yes, I know there are those people that are going to throw in the towel at the first sign. Nothing you say is going to change that except you and a few other resourceful people showing them that comebacks are possible. But even then, there are always going to be those types of people. It's a fact of life, deal with it.
I guess it's a personal thing then?
For me, when the enemy team concedes it is just another win.
Of course they can defend them selves, if they couldn't it wouldn't be practice.
Yeah it is player controlled, the feature doesn't bother me, players do, that can't be changed obviously, but it's a thread for DISCUSSION about concede, and imo, sometimes it sucks. Still a good feature though.