remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=2059799:date=Jan 12 2013, 01:34 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jan 12 2013, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understand their reasoning for not posting the changelog(that is, not writing it yet) but I think it's actually counter-productive. Changelogs are exciting, and seeing them gets people pumped to try out the beta, thus increasing the odds of finding serious bugs before release. When it's just a mystery though, I think most people simply won't bother with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup. Exactly.
I found the cyst placement changes to be terrible personally, particularly where you have height / level changes, where you used to have to place them within a certain "height" of the previous for it to link properly.
It's also very confusing having played the game for so long, having seen all the placement issues in the past, it just makes commanding frustrating as hell now.
If the cyst placement stays as is, where you can't drop it "too close" to the previous cyst, the "out of bounds" area should be indicated on the screen somehow.
<!--quoteo(post=2059988:date=Jan 13 2013, 02:45 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 13 2013, 02:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We did not make spit obscure your vision more often. It is a by product of the improvement we made to the spit hit reg, meaning that the spit actually hits the marine like its supposed to now, so as a marine you probably see the screen spit effect more often as a result. To help compensate we did scale down both the size and transparency of the effect by 50%, so you may be seeing it more often but it should be a lot less vision obscuring then it used to be.
<!--quoteo(post=2059786:date=Jan 12 2013, 03:54 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jan 12 2013, 03:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059786"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If they would post the change log, everyone would just discuss in the forums or play the normal game. If they don't post them, more people will try the beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is probably one of the most upside-down pieces of gibberish I have ever seen.
ok just played a 4vs4 on beta playground with no mods - Much different experience -
The cyst spam prevention is not awful, but it can be annoying, if you constantly attempt to get the most range out of your cyst placements (IE putting them on the outer ring) then it's not really noticeable. I came across maybe a couple of instances where it was frustrating but nothing beyond what it normally is.
Someone noted in the server that the upgrades swapped places, I can't recall off the top of my head if it was celerity and adrenalin or another two.. sorry.. Anyway, was that intentional or ?
It was also remarked you can now pass through aliens structures rather than getting hung up on them.
Seems decent so far, Have to keep tinkering with it.
How many servers are you guys seeing running the B236? I'm only seeing about 8 and only one is full and another has 3-5 players. Makes it kind of tough to test...
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013
<!--quoteo(post=2059799:date=Jan 12 2013, 08:34 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jan 12 2013, 08:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understand their reasoning for not posting the changelog(that is, not writing it yet) but I think it's actually counter-productive. Changelogs are exciting, and seeing them gets people pumped to try out the beta, thus increasing the odds of finding serious bugs before release. When it's just a mystery though, I think most people simply won't bother with it.
If there's a controversial gameplay change, people will quickly found out about it anyway, so hiding the changelog won't prevent those arguments. All it does is get people arguing about changelogs, as has happened consistently every single time thus far. It creates misinformation and confusion as people try to piece things together themselves instead of just reading the facts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The funny thing is Zek, that's a double edged sword in any case, as we've seen it happen time and time again when the change log was released
"omg that change sux, see you in the next patch" or things like that :P
<!--quoteo(post=2060134:date=Jan 13 2013, 02:34 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 13 2013, 02:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The funny thing is Zek, that's a double edged sword in any case, as we've seen it happen time and time again when the change log was released
"omg that change sux, see you in the next patch" or things like that :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a developer is scared to make good changes because of possible negative feedback, they should give up right now and quit their job.
<!--quoteo(post=2060134:date=Jan 13 2013, 10:34 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 13 2013, 10:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The funny thing is Zek, that's a double edged sword in any case, as we've seen it happen time and time again when the change log was released
"omg that change sux, see you in the next patch" or things like that :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok Kouji_San, I got to call you (and Uwe) on this one. Without a Change-Log it makes *Relearning* mechanics a major pain in the ass, and testing almost arbitrary. There are better solutions to peoples stupidity, like putting the change-log in the MOTD, somewhere in the Ns2 client when it is updated, or even in the *Steam* updater log. This is one of those times where your shooting 98% of the player base in the foot for the 2%'s bad behavior.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013
<!--quoteo(post=2060142:date=Jan 13 2013, 07:11 PM:name=Burdock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burdock @ Jan 13 2013, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060142"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok Kouji_San, I got to call you (and Uwe) on this one. Without a Change-Log it makes *Relearning* mechanics a major pain in the ass, and testing almost arbitrary. There are better solutions to peoples stupidity, like putting the change-log in the MOTD, somewhere in the Ns2 client when it is updated, or even in the *Steam* updater log. This is one of those times where your shooting 98% of the player base in the foot for the 2%'s bad behavior.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not sure about those percentages...
However, having the change log just one day later has provided more gameplay feedback and MUCH less trolling on the forums, making these forums a much happier place <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Here's the process btw of a public build that gets released:</b> After many playtests during the in-dev build testing process we arrive at the final RC playtest. Which is just before the build goes live on Steam and final list of bugfixes have been tested and accepted. We play a few rounds to see if the game is working as intended and no showstoppers are popping up, if they do the launch is cancelled. Near the end of these gameplay tests and if all goes well, the devs send it off to Steam. Then one day later they have the changelog online after going through the list.
This <b>coincidentally</b> means that people who come home from work or are lurking for the next patch will start playing the game, which will give the devs a lot of first day info and much less forum fuel for certain trolls on here <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/shifty.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> And we don't have to get the extinguisher out there, with those cute trolls basing their decisions on the list instead of actually playing the game.
Not that this matters at all for a beta release, because most the stuff in there will probably change in some shape orform in the real Steam release. This is apparently just another in-dev version made public and to make sure server ops and modders can check for changes (code or otherwise). If any changelog should be out there it should be for them.
<!--quoteo(post=2060149:date=Jan 13 2013, 11:48 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 13 2013, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060149"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure about those percentages...
However, having the change log just one day later has provided more gameplay feedback and MUCH less trolling on the forums, making these forums a much happier place <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Here's the process btw of a public build that gets released:</b> After many playtests during the in-dev build testing process we arrive at the final RC playtest. Which is just before the build goes live on Steam and final list of bugfixes have been tested and accepted. We play a few rounds to see if the game is working as intended and no showstoppers are popping up, if they do the launch is cancelled. Near the end of these gameplay tests and if all goes well, the devs send it off to Steam. Then one day later they have the changelog online after going through the list.
This <b>coincidentally</b> means that people who come home from work or are lurking for the next patch will start playing the game, which will give the devs a lot of first day info and much less forum fuel for certain trolls on here <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/shifty.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> And we don't have to get the extinguisher out there, with those cute trolls basing their decisions on the list instead of actually playing the game.
Not that this matters at all for a beta release, because most the stuff in there will probably change in some shape orform in the real Steam release. This is apparently just another in-dev version made public and to make sure server ops and modders can check for changes (code or otherwise). If any changelog should be out there it should be for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, I guess we can agree to disagree- I believe that well orchestrated, easy to find changelog release's are extremely beneficial to the Ns2 community as a whole. But I do understand the want to limit useless feedback and *Wasted* time from a developer perspective.
I was having problems placing cysts on the lower parts of the Generator hive on Docking. I couldn't get one side of the lower floor to connect to the other, and every time I tried, I would get this stutter lag for 2 seconds, and then it would clear up. I could fake-connect the cysts by taking the chain through stability, into courtyard, into maintenance, and then into generator from the left side, but it wouldn't actually connect the chain.
I was on the beta playground server. I'll see if I can get on a different server and try it out again.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=2059939:date=Jan 12 2013, 07:01 PM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Jan 12 2013, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the change log: It was getting late on Friday night. I simply wanted to go home to eat delicious soup more than I wanted to edit a change log for a beta patch build that is going to end up being much different once the official release is out a few days later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is really all you need to know regarding the changelog. <u>You don't need it for finding showstoppers.</u> Chances are if you can't discover one through typical playing, the odds of it occurring are pretty low, and thus its less of a priority and an edge case requiring the impending changelog.
Does having a changelog help speed this testing process up? Sure.. but that quote above is all you need in the meantime.
Seriously, its been said countless times now, from devs, PTs, even the main news post... A) the changelog is coming B) you dont need it to keep an eye out for show stoppers. IF this is a dealbreaker for some of you, then so be it, <i>you aren't forced to opt in this beta</i> and you can either wait for the coming changelog, or wait for the official release.
<!--quoteo(post=2060131:date=Jan 13 2013, 12:18 PM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ Jan 13 2013, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060131"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many servers are you guys seeing running the B236? I'm only seeing about 8 and only one is full and another has 3-5 players. Makes it kind of tough to test...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2060134:date=Jan 14 2013, 05:04 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 14 2013, 05:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The funny thing is Zek, that's a double edged sword in any case, as we've seen it happen time and time again when the change log was released
"omg that change sux, see you in the next patch" or things like that :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're joking right?
<!--quoteo(post=2059954:date=Jan 12 2013, 07:55 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jan 12 2013, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It always has, just before you never got hit by Gorge spit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So true. I got hit in the face by Gorge spit yesterday in a game and I was like "what the hell was that?" Then I remembered that Gorge's can do that.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013
<!--quoteo(post=2060186:date=Jan 13 2013, 10:02 PM:name=Volcano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Volcano @ Jan 13 2013, 10:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're joking right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, the forum's history doesn't tell lies... But lets move on from the change log, it'll come when the devs have time to slap one together as always...
<!--quoteo(post=2060159:date=Jan 13 2013, 09:12 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jan 13 2013, 09:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does having a changelog help speed this testing process up? Sure.. but that quote above is all you need in the meantime.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And sometimes getting the changelog does not help AT ALL. It's not because some things have changed HERE that it's broken HERE. It can be totally unrelated and at a totally different place.
<!--quoteo(post=2059592:date=Jan 12 2013, 01:51 AM:name=Kallistrate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kallistrate @ Jan 12 2013, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->We've been working on this patch for a while now, hard to recall everything that went into it. And no, it is not the content update.
Some highlights include: <i>- Major changes to Docking, specifically around cafeteria, east wing, and departures. - Gorge spit had its hit detection fixed. Works like a charm now, don't mess with the battlegorge! - More bug fixes than you can poke a stick at.</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2060205:date=Jan 14 2013, 09:38 AM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ Jan 14 2013, 09:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060205"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nope, happened quite often.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm pretty sure volcano meant the joke is UWE considering it a problem at all.
Most humans are able to read something on a changelog and make up their mind about whether they want to play (their choice) because they understand the game and are semi intelligent. If their wrong, that's their loss. Rather simplistic example that doesn't apply to everything i know, but 1+1 = 2. I don't need to count my fingers to check.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ironhorse+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironhorse)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is really all you need to know regarding the changelog. You don't need it for finding showstoppers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This i agree with.
However, no changelog reads 'waste of time' from the community perspective. It doesn't build interest or awareness, and as such server demand - it's a deterrent to the open community showstopper testing that seems to be intended. You don't even need an accurate changelog, just make up a list of believable mumbo jumbo, people will test it, and find showstopper bugs in the process.
*edit* Basically, most people want to be paid or compensated in some way to QnA playtest (Props to the PT's who work without pay). You need to lure them in with changelogs and the promise of fun!
<!--quoteo(post=2059592:date=Jan 12 2013, 11:51 AM:name=Kallistrate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kallistrate @ Jan 12 2013, 11:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- More bug fixes than you can poke a stick at.[/i][/color]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Challenge accepted !
<!--quoteo(post=2059939:date=Jan 13 2013, 05:01 AM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Jan 13 2013, 05:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I simply wanted to go home to eat delicious soup<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mmm soup
<!--quoteo(post=2059705:date=Jan 12 2013, 06:38 PM:name=Tizo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tizo @ Jan 12 2013, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, babblers were unoficially announced for the upcoming content patch, which is probably arriving late january/early february.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tzeh babblers ! I've been waiting 10 years for them to return !
<!--quoteo(post=2059501:date=Jan 12 2013, 06:27 AM:name=YMICrazy502)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (YMICrazy502 @ Jan 12 2013, 06:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- No Fade buff to 300 HP - No snowballs - Docking map has some structural changes. No terminal to locker rooms shortcut :<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Imo fade's really need it. - We all knew this day would come :(. Maybe we can throw something else in eachothers faces? x) - Ohnoes, not the locker shortcut
Just watched the 2 youtube vids from docking. It looks way better now with more escalaters and plants.
<!--quoteo(post=2059592:date=Jan 12 2013, 10:51 AM:name=Kallistrate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kallistrate @ Jan 12 2013, 10:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->We've been working on this patch for a while now, hard to recall everything that went into it. And no, it is not the content update.
Some highlights include: <i>- Major changes to Docking, specifically around cafeteria, east wing, and departures. - Gorge spit had its hit detection fixed. Works like a charm now, don't mess with the battlegorge! - More bug fixes than you can poke a stick at.</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=2059638:date=Jan 12 2013, 01:46 PM:name=WildChicken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WildChicken @ Jan 12 2013, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, still noticing a few hit reg issues with spit against dodging marines (spit animation hits the marine, but no damage indication).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> so what now?? it would be great if this spitting is finally fixed.
Also, on a few different occasions over the weekend I heard people in-game who were still under the impression that 236 is the big feature patch with gorge tunnels, babblers, etc. They thought that most likely because of the news post saying that the build is a "real doozy" but allowing them to use their imagination about what was actually in it.
<!--quoteo(post=2060418:date=Jan 14 2013, 10:01 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jan 14 2013, 10:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, on a few different occasions over the weekend I heard people in-game who were still under the impression that 236 is the big feature patch with gorge tunnels, babblers, etc. They thought that most likely because of the news post saying that the build is a "real doozy" but allowing them to use their imagination about what was actually in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah a lot of people were under the assumption this was "the big" patch.
/I heard that v236 allows you to fart unicorns and puppies, and when you use your heal spray as gorge in the secret area it unlocks the cow level.
<!--quoteo(post=2060429:date=Jan 14 2013, 05:11 PM:name=ma$$a$$ter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ma$$a$$ter @ Jan 14 2013, 05:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah a lot of people were under the assumption this was "the big" patch.
/I heard that v236 allows you to fart unicorns and puppies, and when you use your heal spray as gorge in the secret area it unlocks the cow level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno meng. If I had a change log I would of been playing the beta, I'd be testing out every aspect that could change the way I play or make strats. Instead, I'd be doing the same thing trying to figure out whats different. I just like to know what I'm doing before I do it. I completely understand who wants to type all that boring shat out, but knowing it would appeal to so many and potentially help and save later time or end up with a better results. I would have. ;P
Comments
Yup. Exactly.
It's also very confusing having played the game for so long, having seen all the placement issues in the past, it just makes commanding frustrating as hell now.
If the cyst placement stays as is, where you can't drop it "too close" to the previous cyst, the "out of bounds" area should be indicated on the screen somehow.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for clearing that up!
This is probably one of the most upside-down pieces of gibberish I have ever seen.
Much different experience -
The cyst spam prevention is not awful, but it can be annoying, if you constantly attempt to get the most range out of your cyst placements (IE putting them on the outer ring) then it's not really noticeable. I came across maybe a couple of instances where it was frustrating but nothing beyond what it normally is.
Someone noted in the server that the upgrades swapped places, I can't recall off the top of my head if it was celerity and adrenalin or another two.. sorry.. Anyway, was that intentional or ?
It was also remarked you can now pass through aliens structures rather than getting hung up on them.
Seems decent so far, Have to keep tinkering with it.
I'm only seeing about 8 and only one is full and another has 3-5 players. Makes it kind of tough to test...
If there's a controversial gameplay change, people will quickly found out about it anyway, so hiding the changelog won't prevent those arguments. All it does is get people arguing about changelogs, as has happened consistently every single time thus far. It creates misinformation and confusion as people try to piece things together themselves instead of just reading the facts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The funny thing is Zek, that's a double edged sword in any case, as we've seen it happen time and time again when the change log was released
"omg that change sux, see you in the next patch" or things like that :P
"omg that change sux, see you in the next patch" or things like that :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a developer is scared to make good changes because of possible negative feedback, they should give up right now and quit their job.
"omg that change sux, see you in the next patch" or things like that :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok Kouji_San, I got to call you (and Uwe) on this one. Without a Change-Log it makes *Relearning* mechanics a major pain in the ass, and testing almost arbitrary. There are better solutions to peoples stupidity, like putting the change-log in the MOTD, somewhere in the Ns2 client when it is updated, or even in the *Steam* updater log. This is one of those times where your shooting 98% of the player base in the foot for the 2%'s bad behavior.
Not sure about those percentages...
However, having the change log just one day later has provided more gameplay feedback and MUCH less trolling on the forums, making these forums a much happier place <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Here's the process btw of a public build that gets released:</b>
After many playtests during the in-dev build testing process we arrive at the final RC playtest. Which is just before the build goes live on Steam and final list of bugfixes have been tested and accepted. We play a few rounds to see if the game is working as intended and no showstoppers are popping up, if they do the launch is cancelled. Near the end of these gameplay tests and if all goes well, the devs send it off to Steam. Then one day later they have the changelog online after going through the list.
This <b>coincidentally</b> means that people who come home from work or are lurking for the next patch will start playing the game, which will give the devs a lot of first day info and much less forum fuel for certain trolls on here <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/shifty.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> And we don't have to get the extinguisher out there, with those cute trolls basing their decisions on the list instead of actually playing the game.
Not that this matters at all for a beta release, because most the stuff in there will probably change in some shape orform in the real Steam release. This is apparently just another in-dev version made public and to make sure server ops and modders can check for changes (code or otherwise). If any changelog should be out there it should be for them.
However, having the change log just one day later has provided more gameplay feedback and MUCH less trolling on the forums, making these forums a much happier place <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Here's the process btw of a public build that gets released:</b>
After many playtests during the in-dev build testing process we arrive at the final RC playtest. Which is just before the build goes live on Steam and final list of bugfixes have been tested and accepted. We play a few rounds to see if the game is working as intended and no showstoppers are popping up, if they do the launch is cancelled. Near the end of these gameplay tests and if all goes well, the devs send it off to Steam. Then one day later they have the changelog online after going through the list.
This <b>coincidentally</b> means that people who come home from work or are lurking for the next patch will start playing the game, which will give the devs a lot of first day info and much less forum fuel for certain trolls on here <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/shifty.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> And we don't have to get the extinguisher out there, with those cute trolls basing their decisions on the list instead of actually playing the game.
Not that this matters at all for a beta release, because most the stuff in there will probably change in some shape orform in the real Steam release. This is apparently just another in-dev version made public and to make sure server ops and modders can check for changes (code or otherwise). If any changelog should be out there it should be for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, I guess we can agree to disagree- I believe that well orchestrated, easy to find changelog release's are extremely beneficial to the Ns2 community as a whole. But I do understand the want to limit useless feedback and *Wasted* time from a developer perspective.
I was on the beta playground server. I'll see if I can get on a different server and try it out again.
This is really all you need to know regarding the changelog.
<u>You don't need it for finding showstoppers.</u>
Chances are if you can't discover one through typical playing, the odds of it occurring are pretty low, and thus its less of a priority and an edge case requiring the impending changelog.
Does having a changelog help speed this testing process up? Sure.. but that quote above is all you need in the meantime.
Seriously, its been said countless times now, from devs, PTs, even the main news post... A) the changelog is coming B) you dont need it to keep an eye out for show stoppers.
IF this is a dealbreaker for some of you, then so be it, <i>you aren't forced to opt in this beta</i> and you can either wait for the coming changelog, or wait for the official release.
I'm only seeing about 8 and only one is full and another has 3-5 players. Makes it kind of tough to test...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And why are there no UWE servers on B236???
"omg that change sux, see you in the next patch" or things like that :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're joking right?
Nope, happened quite often.
So true. I got hit in the face by Gorge spit yesterday in a game and I was like "what the hell was that?" Then I remembered that Gorge's can do that.
No, the forum's history doesn't tell lies... But lets move on from the change log, it'll come when the devs have time to slap one together as always...
And sometimes getting the changelog does not help AT ALL. It's not because some things have changed HERE that it's broken HERE. It can be totally unrelated and at a totally different place.
Some highlights include:
<i>- Major changes to Docking, specifically around cafeteria, east wing, and departures.
- Gorge spit had its hit detection fixed. Works like a charm now, don't mess with the battlegorge!
- More bug fixes than you can poke a stick at.</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And infestation totally removed from the game!?
Nope still there :/
I'm pretty sure volcano meant the joke is UWE considering it a problem at all.
Most humans are able to read something on a changelog and make up their mind about whether they want to play (their choice) because they understand the game and are semi intelligent. If their wrong, that's their loss. Rather simplistic example that doesn't apply to everything i know, but 1+1 = 2. I don't need to count my fingers to check.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ironhorse+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironhorse)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is really all you need to know regarding the changelog.
You don't need it for finding showstoppers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This i agree with.
However, no changelog reads 'waste of time' from the community perspective. It doesn't build interest or awareness, and as such server demand - it's a deterrent to the open community showstopper testing that seems to be intended. You don't even need an accurate changelog, just make up a list of believable mumbo jumbo, people will test it, and find showstopper bugs in the process.
*edit*
Basically, most people want to be paid or compensated in some way to QnA playtest (Props to the PT's who work without pay). You need to lure them in with changelogs and the promise of fun!
Challenge accepted !
<!--quoteo(post=2059939:date=Jan 13 2013, 05:01 AM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Jan 13 2013, 05:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I simply wanted to go home to eat delicious soup<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mmm soup
<!--quoteo(post=2059705:date=Jan 12 2013, 06:38 PM:name=Tizo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tizo @ Jan 12 2013, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, babblers were unoficially announced for the upcoming content patch, which is probably arriving late january/early february.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tzeh babblers ! I've been waiting 10 years for them to return !
<!--quoteo(post=2059501:date=Jan 12 2013, 06:27 AM:name=YMICrazy502)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (YMICrazy502 @ Jan 12 2013, 06:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- No Fade buff to 300 HP
- No snowballs
- Docking map has some structural changes. No terminal to locker rooms shortcut :<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Imo fade's really need it.
- We all knew this day would come :(. Maybe we can throw something else in eachothers faces? x)
- Ohnoes, not the locker shortcut
Just watched the 2 youtube vids from docking. It looks way better now with more escalaters and plants.
Some highlights include:
<i>- Major changes to Docking, specifically around cafeteria, east wing, and departures.
- Gorge spit had its hit detection fixed. Works like a charm now, don't mess with the battlegorge!
- More bug fixes than you can poke a stick at.</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2059638:date=Jan 12 2013, 01:46 PM:name=WildChicken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WildChicken @ Jan 12 2013, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, still noticing a few hit reg issues with spit against dodging marines (spit animation hits the marine, but no damage indication).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so what now??
it would be great if this spitting is finally fixed.
Yeah a lot of people were under the assumption this was "the big" patch.
/I heard that v236 allows you to fart unicorns and puppies, and when you use your heal spray as gorge in the secret area it unlocks the cow level.
/I heard that v236 allows you to fart unicorns and puppies, and when you use your heal spray as gorge in the secret area it unlocks the cow level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And as we all know, cows go m00
Just like an onos
If I had a change log I would of been playing the beta, I'd be testing out every aspect that could change the way I play or make strats.
Instead, I'd be doing the same thing trying to figure out whats different. I just like to know what I'm doing before I do it.
I completely understand who wants to type all that boring shat out, but knowing it would appeal to so many and potentially help and save later time or end up with a better results.
I would have. ;P