<!--quoteo(post=2034045:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:47 PM:name=Snypr18)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Snypr18 @ Nov 25 2012, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034045"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It sounds like you have yet to play with some khamms who really exploit whips and crags.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd simply man up and say to myself "cool, look at dem whips go! now I'll have to find another way around"
Oh no, Alien structures can't be killed with item X, Nerf, nerf nerf!! What need to be nerfed is the brainless grenade spawning in Marine-groups to kill a single alien.
In hindsight, we probably should have come out of the gate claiming that GLs render eggs, skulks, gorges, hydras, shades, crags, shifts and hives useless. :P
Anyone tested how hard do whips hit grenades back?
Does the return range vary with the amount of height the grenade is at?
If the whip hits a very low angle grenade back at full speed to the grenadier then it's painful. If it's only a 40% distance return to the grenadier if it's a low angle shot then it's a fair compromise - no one gets hurt since the grenadier took extra care to aim low.
Doesn't a burning whip stop throwing stuff back? There you go. There is plenty of reasons to use a flame thrower from time to time, you better complain at your comm if he never researches them.
<!--quoteo(post=2034124:date=Nov 25 2012, 03:40 AM:name=Rokiyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rokiyo @ Nov 25 2012, 03:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034124"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In hindsight, we probably should have come out of the gate claiming that GLs render eggs, skulks, gorges, hydras, shades, crags, shifts and hives useless. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much.
Whips have gone through several interations as I recall:
1. Whips knocked back grenades without requiring maturity. However at this point it only knocked 2-3 grenades of the 6 salvo. 2. GL tears caused this to be nerfed, requiring maturity. 3. Strange rebalance caused them to be changed so whips always bounched grenades away from hives, rather than towards the marines who fired it. Sound idea, but it ended up being a massive GL buff.
Then we have what we have today. 1 whip can knock back all the grenades from 1 marine. Requires maturity. Still occasionally does nothing. Still rendered useless against every other enemy. Still extremely expensive.
I generally regret purchasing/researching GLs though, they're hard to aim, hard to fight with, not cheap, and they need the support of a flamethrower to actually kill things defended with whips. Why buy a GL at all? Just get a flamethrower. Hydras aren't scary enough to justify a dedicated anti-building weapon IMO, and everything else burns/dies without infestation. Something's gotta change.
<!--quoteo(post=2034133:date=Nov 25 2012, 03:42 AM:name=CrushaK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CrushaK @ Nov 25 2012, 03:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Doesn't a burning whip stop throwing stuff back? There you go. There is plenty of reasons to use a flame thrower from time to time, you better complain at your comm if he never researches them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2034093:date=Nov 25 2012, 09:23 AM:name=Mavick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mavick @ Nov 25 2012, 09:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This seriously has to be the most asinine grip thread I've ever seen, since EVERY SINGLE WEAPON in the marine arsenal beats whip, EXCEPT 1! Oh, and it's the GL, go figure.
Awesome, you have 45 res invested in one spot of the map to defend against 0 res marines. You sir, win the internets. Of course smart marines would run *past* your one limited range whip, kill the gorge, then the crags, then the whip, if they even bothered with it. Or, they could just kill the cysts, wait for it to unroot, and just ignore the whole damned thing. I have no idea on what point of what map you're even talking about, but honestly, I don't even care at this point.
<!--quoteo(post=2034225:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:41 PM:name=Mavick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mavick @ Nov 25 2012, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Awesome, you have 45 res invested in one spot of the map to defend against 0 res marines. You sir, win the internets. Of course smart marines would run *past* your one limited range whip, kill the gorge, then the crags, then the whip, if they even bothered with it. Or, they could just kill the cysts, wait for it to unroot, and just ignore the whole damned thing. I have no idea on what point of what map you're even talking about, but honestly, I don't even care at this point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You want to fight carapace skulks in amongst a gorge and 2 crags. Good luck to you.
Plain and simple, you won't take it. Regardless of the res invested, it could be 200, it doesn't matter. You should not be able to place a fortification which is impervious to all attacks except one. It has nothing to do with balance, its about strategic depth. When I command marines, my third structure build is a robotics factory, every time. Because without ARCs, marines stand absolutely no chance against crag spam, and with single whips nullifying entire squads of grenade launchers, it makes it even more monotonous.
You might want to look into the mechanics of whips when you state that "single whips nullify entire squads of grenade launchers" as one whip will only repel one marine's grenades. Overstate it more and ignore what else marines can throw at your precious "one whip with 2 crags and a gorge" while adding skulks and whatever else you want to in the mix. It's one point on a map. If you're that focused on one, marines can just hit another. There's always a way around.
UWE better not change the whip, GL is already incredibly overpowered, this would just end up making it completely absurd and no fun at all for the Aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=2034230:date=Nov 25 2012, 10:50 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 25 2012, 10:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034230"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because without ARCs, marines stand absolutely no chance against crag spam, and with single whips nullifying entire squads of grenade launchers, it makes it even more monotonous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Wow, that is some impressive hyperbole, even by your standards.
<ol type='1'><li>A single whip nullifies a single poorly-aimed grenade launcher.</li><li>Crag spam requires resources. If the aliens have the resources to spam crags, you're already doing it wrong.</li><li>Crag spam requires alien commander to place the cysts, crags and whips. Asking for marine commander to directly respond to an alien commander's strategy is reasonable.</li><li>A single flamethrower solves the problem.</li></ol>
why don't some people put things into context? it sounds like "i wanna do [gl vs whips] because i'm lazy and bad, but the game won't let me... please fix it!"
grenade launcher is very strong, but is somewhat countered by whips. if grenade launcher is more effective against whips then you risk making it totally overpowered.
<!--quoteo(post=2034250:date=Nov 25 2012, 03:37 PM:name=Rokiyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rokiyo @ Nov 25 2012, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034250"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, that is some impressive hyperbole, even by your standards.
<ol type='1'><li>A single whip nullifies a single poorly-aimed grenade launcher.</li><li>Crag spam requires resources. If the aliens have the resources to spam crags, you're already doing it wrong.</li><li>Crag spam requires alien commander to place the cysts, crags and whips. Asking for marine commander to directly respond to an alien commander's strategy is reasonable.</li><li>A single flamethrower solves the problem.</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try this: Place a whip, change over to marines. Get a grenade launcher, then approach the whip until it strikes you once, then move back slightly so you are at the minimum possible range away from the whip without being... whipped. Now fire 4 grenades at it, and tell me how many get through.
Now, before you make excuses for the unavoidable answer of <b>zero</b>, explain to me how that isn't a hard counter.
<!--quoteo(post=2034258:date=Nov 25 2012, 03:57 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 25 2012, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034258"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why don't some people put things into context? it sounds like "i wanna do [gl vs whips] because i'm lazy and bad, but the game won't let me... please fix it!"
grenade launcher is very strong, but is somewhat countered by whips. if grenade launcher is more effective against whips then you risk making it totally overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The very first iteration of grenade bouncing whips was completely overpowered. It hit every grenade that come into range directly back at the person who fired them. The next iteration was a complete joke, typically resulting in the whips almost never hitting any grenades back, and when they did, it usually went right into the biggest nearest object (the hive). Then there was the slightly better version of somewhat competent whips, which required maturity to knock grenades back.
Now we have whips which will hit nearly every single grenade you fire at them away, but not always at the person who fired them. This is, I suppose, an arguably respectable compromise. However, combine this with the ludicrous amount of structural healing that crags do, and you have something that is just as bad as the first, completely overpowered version.
<!--quoteo(post=2034262:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:04 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 25 2012, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034262"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Try this: Place a whip, change over to marines. Get a grenade launcher, then approach the whip until it strikes you once, then move back slightly so you are at the minimum possible range away from the whip without being... whipped. Now fire 4 grenades at it, and tell me how many get through.
Now, before you make excuses for the unavoidable answer of <b>zero</b>, explain to me how that isn't a hard counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2034266:date=Nov 25 2012, 04:09 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 25 2012, 04:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->whip is also a hard counter to the switch axe!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With enough medpacks, nanoshields, and fellow marines to weld, a switch axe weilding marine will take down a whip. A Grenade launcher will either never harm the whip, or if used at zero range, will instantly kill the wielder.
<!--quoteo(post=2034267:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:10 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 25 2012, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With enough medpacks, nanoshields, and fellow marines to weld, a switch axe weilding marine will take down a whip. A Grenade launcher will either never harm the whip, or if used at zero range, will instantly kill the wielder.
So no.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
with enough medpacks, nanoshields and fellow marines with welders...
dude, for all that res you could have got your commander to build you an armory, bought a shotgun, killed the whip, picked up your grenade launcher again.
there are more ways to finish a rubiks cube than painting over the colors.
Fun facts, straight from the whip's AI files! A whip will not whip away grenades it can't see! Watch your video again. The grenades you are throwing enter whip line of sight and are knocked back. You perceive this as the whip hitting it through the wall, but trust me, the whip had to "see" it. It can only knock back one marine's grenades, and it can't knock back a properly timed, bounced grenade. The grenades have fuses that last 2 seconds. Bounce them into a room correctly, and the whip is SOL.
Flamethrowers cause the whip to flinch, and then it's SOL.
ARCs show up, whips AND crags are SOL. Actually, every alien building is SOL because the ARCs fire through walls and are usually covered by MAC trains and marines.
Whips are fine, and they are the ONLY counter to Grenade Launchers. Give Gorges a little mandrake plant that screams at grenades to explode them, causing them to blow up in the marine's face, then we can talk about whip nerfs.
<!--quoteo(post=2034262:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:04 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 26 2012, 12:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034262"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Try this: Place a whip, change over to marines. Get a grenade launcher, then approach the whip until it strikes you once, then move back slightly so you are at the minimum possible range away from the whip without being... whipped. Now fire 4 grenades at it, and tell me how many get through.
Now, before you make excuses for the unavoidable answer of <b>zero</b>, explain to me how that isn't a hard counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <div align='center'><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WnRZ3cHbsRo"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WnRZ3cHbsRo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center></div>
<!--quoteo(post=2034281:date=Nov 25 2012, 04:58 PM:name=Timarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Timarius @ Nov 25 2012, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fun facts, straight from the whip's AI files! A whip will not whip away grenades it can't see! Watch your video again. The grenades you are throwing enter whip line of sight and are knocked back. You perceive this as the whip hitting it through the wall, but trust me, the whip had to "see" it. It can only knock back one marine's grenades, and it can't knock back a properly timed, bounced grenade. The grenades have fuses that last 2 seconds. Bounce them into a room correctly, and the whip is SOL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you place a whip behind a wall, a solid wall, a solid opaque wall. And then fire grenades into said solid opaque wall, a solid opaque wall through which the whip cannot see, it will hit the grenades right back at you.
They knocked back every single grenade. Just because they inconveniently hit it right into a wall which happened to bounce it back into them doesn't mean they didn't knock it away.
But ye, next time the alien commander builds his hive in a teeny tiny passageway, in which there is hardly enough room for the whip to extend, let alone for a grenade to fly, I will definitely remember this.
Just tested this myself again, and what is actually happening is the grenades aren't exploding on contact with the whip, giving it more than enough time to hit them away before they go off. Bug perhaps?
<!--quoteo(post=2034190:date=Nov 25 2012, 01:48 PM:name=Mavick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mavick @ Nov 25 2012, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Obviously finding ways to work around them, of which there are several, is worth less then coming right to the forums to complain about them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely! Every second thread is posted by a new player that isn't willing to learn the game or at least ask for help in the forums. Something like "How can I counter whip spam?" No its always "BLA OVERPOWERED bla!". The op didn't know, that flamethrowers can burn cysts without actually hitting them (just aim at the ground in the infestation-radius of the cyst). He doesn't know, that burning whips do no grenade whacking. He doesn't know that whips do not bounce grenades that are rolling on the ground. He is not willing to accept, that a 15res building is effective in counter a weapon that is otherwise very powerful. Even 0 res LMG marines can overcome a whip. But if he dies in the process? Oh what? 0res-marine vs. 15res whip? But what is with crags? Maybe shoot the crag first? And if there is a gorge... and skulks and an onos farts at the marine... srsly. Stop constructing senseless situations. There IS a solution for every fortification. And in the end the answers that always works is: ARCs! But it is not the reality that you always need them. There are mostly enough other possibilities. So stop exaggerating a problem you haven't even tried to find a solution for.
Edit: If this bug really exists, that whips can whack grenades through solid walls, than yes. That has to be fixed. But this does not justify a nerf of the whips intended feature.
<!--quoteo(post=2034313:date=Nov 25 2012, 06:10 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Nov 25 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034313"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: If this bug really exists, that whips can whack grenades through solid walls, than yes. That has to be fixed. But this does not justify a nerf of the whips intended feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is the whips intended feature 100% knockback of all grenades fired at it? If it is, then what exactly was going on around build 180-190, when whips were hitting almost no grenades back? I'm pretty sure that wasn't declared a bug or anything. Maybe they were just trying to flesh out the whips intended features. Maybe they still are.
Comments
I'd simply man up and say to myself "cool, look at dem whips go! now I'll have to find another way around"
But if you just love those whips hitting back grenades through walls then I would assume you are playing alien most of the time.
Does the return range vary with the amount of height the grenade is at?
If the whip hits a very low angle grenade back at full speed to the grenadier then it's painful. If it's only a 40% distance return to the grenadier if it's a low angle shot then it's a fair compromise - no one gets hurt since the grenadier took extra care to aim low.
Pretty much.
Whips have gone through several interations as I recall:
1. Whips knocked back grenades without requiring maturity. However at this point it only knocked 2-3 grenades of the 6 salvo.
2. GL tears caused this to be nerfed, requiring maturity.
3. Strange rebalance caused them to be changed so whips always bounched grenades away from hives, rather than towards the marines who fired it. Sound idea, but it ended up being a massive GL buff.
Then we have what we have today. 1 whip can knock back all the grenades from 1 marine. Requires maturity. Still occasionally does nothing. Still rendered useless against every other enemy. Still extremely expensive.
I generally regret purchasing/researching GLs though, they're hard to aim, hard to fight with, not cheap, and they need the support of a flamethrower to actually kill things defended with whips. Why buy a GL at all? Just get a flamethrower. Hydras aren't scary enough to justify a dedicated anti-building weapon IMO, and everything else burns/dies without infestation. Something's gotta change.
Is that true? Ill have to mess with it.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? I'll put a whip down with 2 crags behind it and a gorge. Bring all the rifle wielding marines you want. You won't take it down.
Or arcs.
You want to fight carapace skulks in amongst a gorge and 2 crags. Good luck to you.
Plain and simple, you won't take it. Regardless of the res invested, it could be 200, it doesn't matter. You should not be able to place a fortification which is impervious to all attacks except one. It has nothing to do with balance, its about strategic depth. When I command marines, my third structure build is a robotics factory, every time. Because without ARCs, marines stand absolutely no chance against crag spam, and with single whips nullifying entire squads of grenade launchers, it makes it even more monotonous.
<ol type='1'><li>A single whip nullifies a single poorly-aimed grenade launcher.</li><li>Crag spam requires resources. If the aliens have the resources to spam crags, you're already doing it wrong.</li><li>Crag spam requires alien commander to place the cysts, crags and whips. Asking for marine commander to directly respond to an alien commander's strategy is reasonable.</li><li>A single flamethrower solves the problem.</li></ol>
grenade launcher is very strong, but is somewhat countered by whips. if grenade launcher is more effective against whips then you risk making it totally overpowered.
<ol type='1'><li>A single whip nullifies a single poorly-aimed grenade launcher.</li><li>Crag spam requires resources. If the aliens have the resources to spam crags, you're already doing it wrong.</li><li>Crag spam requires alien commander to place the cysts, crags and whips. Asking for marine commander to directly respond to an alien commander's strategy is reasonable.</li><li>A single flamethrower solves the problem.</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try this:
Place a whip, change over to marines. Get a grenade launcher, then approach the whip until it strikes you once, then move back slightly so you are at the minimum possible range away from the whip without being... whipped. Now fire 4 grenades at it, and tell me how many get through.
Now, before you make excuses for the unavoidable answer of <b>zero</b>, explain to me how that isn't a hard counter.
<!--quoteo(post=2034258:date=Nov 25 2012, 03:57 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 25 2012, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034258"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why don't some people put things into context? it sounds like "i wanna do [gl vs whips] because i'm lazy and bad, but the game won't let me... please fix it!"
grenade launcher is very strong, but is somewhat countered by whips. if grenade launcher is more effective against whips then you risk making it totally overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The very first iteration of grenade bouncing whips was completely overpowered. It hit every grenade that come into range directly back at the person who fired them. The next iteration was a complete joke, typically resulting in the whips almost never hitting any grenades back, and when they did, it usually went right into the biggest nearest object (the hive). Then there was the slightly better version of somewhat competent whips, which required maturity to knock grenades back.
Now we have whips which will hit nearly every single grenade you fire at them away, but not always at the person who fired them. This is, I suppose, an arguably respectable compromise. However, combine this with the ludicrous amount of structural healing that crags do, and you have something that is just as bad as the first, completely overpowered version.
Place a whip, change over to marines. Get a grenade launcher, then approach the whip until it strikes you once, then move back slightly so you are at the minimum possible range away from the whip without being... whipped. Now fire 4 grenades at it, and tell me how many get through.
Now, before you make excuses for the unavoidable answer of <b>zero</b>, explain to me how that isn't a hard counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whip is also a hard counter to the switch axe!
With enough medpacks, nanoshields, and fellow marines to weld, a switch axe weilding marine will take down a whip. A Grenade launcher will either never harm the whip, or if used at zero range, will instantly kill the wielder.
So no.
So no.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
with enough medpacks, nanoshields and fellow marines with welders...
dude, for all that res you could have got your commander to build you an armory, bought a shotgun, killed the whip, picked up your grenade launcher again.
there are more ways to finish a rubiks cube than painting over the colors.
Flamethrowers cause the whip to flinch, and then it's SOL.
ARCs show up, whips AND crags are SOL. Actually, every alien building is SOL because the ARCs fire through walls and are usually covered by MAC trains and marines.
Whips are fine, and they are the ONLY counter to Grenade Launchers. Give Gorges a little mandrake plant that screams at grenades to explode them, causing them to blow up in the marine's face, then we can talk about whip nerfs.
EDIT: "They", not "the".
Place a whip, change over to marines. Get a grenade launcher, then approach the whip until it strikes you once, then move back slightly so you are at the minimum possible range away from the whip without being... whipped. Now fire 4 grenades at it, and tell me how many get through.
Now, before you make excuses for the unavoidable answer of <b>zero</b>, explain to me how that isn't a hard counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<div align='center'><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WnRZ3cHbsRo"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WnRZ3cHbsRo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center></div>
If you place a whip behind a wall, a solid wall, a solid opaque wall. And then fire grenades into said solid opaque wall, a solid opaque wall through which the whip cannot see, it will hit the grenades right back at you.
<!--quoteo(post=2034300:date=Nov 25 2012, 05:49 PM:name=Rokiyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rokiyo @ Nov 25 2012, 05:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yatubz<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They knocked back every single grenade. Just because they inconveniently hit it right into a wall which happened to bounce it back into them doesn't mean they didn't knock it away.
But ye, next time the alien commander builds his hive in a teeny tiny passageway, in which there is hardly enough room for the whip to extend, let alone for a grenade to fly, I will definitely remember this.
Just tested this myself again, and what is actually happening is the grenades aren't exploding on contact with the whip, giving it more than enough time to hit them away before they go off. Bug perhaps?
Absolutely! Every second thread is posted by a new player that isn't willing to learn the game or at least ask for help in the forums. Something like "How can I counter whip spam?" No its always "BLA OVERPOWERED bla!". The op didn't know, that flamethrowers can burn cysts without actually hitting them (just aim at the ground in the infestation-radius of the cyst). He doesn't know, that burning whips do no grenade whacking. He doesn't know that whips do not bounce grenades that are rolling on the ground. He is not willing to accept, that a 15res building is effective in counter a weapon that is otherwise very powerful. Even 0 res LMG marines can overcome a whip. But if he dies in the process? Oh what? 0res-marine vs. 15res whip? But what is with crags? Maybe shoot the crag first? And if there is a gorge... and skulks and an onos farts at the marine... srsly. Stop constructing senseless situations. There IS a solution for every fortification. And in the end the answers that always works is: ARCs! But it is not the reality that you always need them. There are mostly enough other possibilities. So stop exaggerating a problem you haven't even tried to find a solution for.
Edit: If this bug really exists, that whips can whack grenades through solid walls, than yes. That has to be fixed. But this does not justify a nerf of the whips intended feature.
Is the whips intended feature 100% knockback of all grenades fired at it? If it is, then what exactly was going on around build 180-190, when whips were hitting almost no grenades back? I'm pretty sure that wasn't declared a bug or anything. Maybe they were just trying to flesh out the whips intended features. Maybe they still are.