<!--quoteo(post=2021994:date=Nov 13 2012, 04:43 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Nov 13 2012, 04:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2021994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Weird thing is that pub games were actually somewhat fun until people started learning the 2nd hive onos strat... lol now even pubbing is as boring as competitive play.
I still enjoy the first 5-6 minutes though... I'll just server hop when the onos comes out or the comm researches exo's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this, i had most fun in the first week of ns2, it was absolutely golden gametime, most fun i had in years, but then i took onos to the knee.
<!--quoteo(post=2021997:date=Nov 13 2012, 01:47 PM:name=Juomari)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juomari @ Nov 13 2012, 01:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2021997"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this, i had most fun in the first week of ns2, it was absolutely golden gametime, most fun i had in years, but then i took onos to the knee.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah please, on what servers are you playing then? Today i played again 5 games, and the onos-early-strat was not being used these games. The golden times are not over, or i'm just lucky i guess i don't these early-onos thing not much.
<!--quoteo(post=2022022:date=Nov 13 2012, 05:07 AM:name=Paniohitus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paniohitus @ Nov 13 2012, 05:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah please, on what servers are you playing then? Today i played again 5 games, and the onos-early-strat was not being used these games. The golden times are not over, or i'm just lucky i guess i don't these early-onos thing not much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, firstly, i try to avoid rookiefriendly servers, other than that pretty random, mostly finnish servers and official servers, i only play 16p servers so it's 8v8
and to me, this is huge problem, it's getting bigger and bigger everyday, so it's now on the point where i stop enjoying the game because i can honestly say that 50% of the games i play uses onos asap tactic.
joining alien khammander won't do it, because i find it most boring gameplay ever because it's just waiting resources mostly, you can't interact to flow of the game like you can do as marine commander.
so, i just simply quit playing at all because i don't want to play the game like "oh, i sure hope this is not another onos rush game..." or if i'm marine commander "i better keep scanning all rt nodes and hives all the time and order my marines to ignore everything else and concenrate on enemy rt's in order to stop aliens having 4-6min onos"
<!--quoteo(post=2021782:date=Nov 13 2012, 07:06 AM:name=Juomari)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juomari @ Nov 13 2012, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2021782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b> sooner or later they will have that EARLY onos.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i rofled at the bold xDDDD
However this is true and annoying. All the aliens want now is to go onos eggs. And its especially annoying at veil when you as a marine are holding Nano DUal extractors and most of the other ones and BAM! an onos out of 0 res comes claim Nano..... its unfair :\
<!--quoteo(post=2022064:date=Nov 13 2012, 06:15 AM:name=Sammey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sammey @ Nov 13 2012, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It'll be better when the noobs on the marine team stop pissing their pants. If everyone just shoots at the onos you'll rattle it apart in 2 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's one problem, let me quote again "everyone", that's the problem, you need too much to stop onos giving rest of the aliens free lunch on your team resourcenodes, om nom nom, and if that onos plays def, you can't kill it so easily, by the time you get it killed there is probably 2 more onoses coming.
remember that onos is still faster than marine, and with right use of charge you can retreat quite fast, assuming you're not suiciding with it into middle of marine base.
The whole early onos thing is negated once you realize you need to be aggressive and not focus on base building. Too often I see marines all in one big group uselessly defending a single resource tower, while completely ignoring the rest of the map. It takes 1 person to build any building, and only 1 minute to make a profit off a resource tower. There's a good chance if you are aggressive at the start, you can put up several resource towers, make the money back off of them while slowing the aliens down. Hell you might even kill 1 of their towers. If you kill an alien harvester before it's built, that's a loss of 10 res from the tower, and 8 more over the next 45 seconds if they put it back up immediately.
wait, didn't you make a thread like this just a week ago? and didn't you also went commander and build a shade hive? So you complain about kinda everything...
<!--quoteo(post=2022150:date=Nov 13 2012, 07:47 AM:name=upperdemoon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (upperdemoon @ Nov 13 2012, 07:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wait, didn't you make a thread like this just a week ago? and didn't you also went commander and build a shade hive? So you complain about kinda everything...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, i did, i complained about shadehive and i complained about onos.
that's because i want to see this game fixed, that's how much i care about this game.
however i missed many points in the last onos topic and i haven't seen "lifeform explosion" effect yet, wich is also ruining the game, and if you put timer on onos egg would only enforce lifeform explosion effect.
if someone don't know what is lifeform explosion, it's where aliens all suddenly goes certain lifeform, because commander is using all the tres for upgrades, unlike in ns1 aliens now can afford to save for higher lifeforms, in ns1 most ppls needed to go gorge, build upgradechamber or resource tower to delay their lifeform, giving most aliens different ammount of resources and so being it unable to suddenly explode whole team to higher lifeform. In ns2 however, the wholeteam can afford to save for lerk / onos / fade etc giving aliens element of suprise and overpower marines by sudden.
<!--quoteo(post=2022156:date=Nov 13 2012, 08:54 AM:name=Juomari)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juomari @ Nov 13 2012, 08:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeah, i did, i complained about shadehive and i complained about onos.
that's because i want to see this game fixed, that's how much i care about this game.
however i missed many points in the last onos topic and i haven't seen "lifeform explosion" effect yet, wich is also ruining the game, and if you put timer on onos egg would only enforce lifeform explosion effect.
if someone don't know what is lifeform explosion, it's where aliens all suddenly goes certain lifeform, because commander is using all the tres for upgrades, unlike in ns1 aliens now can afford to save for higher lifeforms, in ns1 most ppls needed to go gorge, build upgradechamber or resource tower to delay their lifeform, giving most aliens different ammount of resources and so being it unable to suddenly explode whole team to higher lifeform. In ns2 however, the wholeteam can afford to save for lerk / onos / fade etc giving aliens element of suprise and overpower marines by sudden.
so i'm sorry for making doublepost, i truly am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea you're really not getting any points, if you're the kinda guy that jumps into the hive just to build shade and get camo while simultaneously screwing your team then whining about it... Well to be honest I wouldn't miss you in the slightest.
Pubs are not broken, most good alien commanders probably don't even bother with super early onos, many ppl here said they don't do it, I don't do it either. Newb comms don't do it. So that really only leaves medicore comms who are probably still learning so they arent bored of doing that yet.
Try playing on bigger servers thats also a problem for you. When your playing 10v10 or 12v12 one onos matters less, is more likely to make a mistake.
Thats another reason why I don't do it to be honest, too much risk that a random newbie is going to lose my early onos right away and then my teams gona be screwed.
I honestly almost never see super-fast Onos drops. Most alien comms drop a lot of structures and only start using Onos eggs as game finishers when we own so much of the map that they can't spend the res fast enough.
I just got out of a game where I had to basically BEG the alien comm to research upgrades, only to have him say "I can't afford it" because he was spamming Onos eggs the entire game!
It's simply not fun on either side to have to fight an endless stream of Onoses, only to get killed because of how literally limitless they are, or to be someone who doesn't want to be an Onos, and who wants the game to be actually fun and balanced.
<!--quoteo(post=2021830:date=Nov 12 2012, 11:45 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 12 2012, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2021830"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines won 8 out of 9 games in the last major tournament. The dominant strategy was early onos.
I'm not saying it's easy, it probably isn't even realistic in pubs, but to say it's impossible is simply wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> most of the ESL games featuring marine victories over Onos were Archaea completely dominating the early-game and controlling Harvester counts, to have the Onos come out with exertus already at a severe disadvantage. Onos was the only thing keeping exertus in the game that long (and their solid play and teamwork around it).
edit: regarding the original post it's already been addressed by Flayra as being an issue, best thing to do is wait :>
The real problem is that aliens feel as if they need to do early onos to hold on to there 2nd hive long enough to get the rest of the upgrades and take this into consideration we all agree that early onos is op !?!,, but we also agree that games are 50/50 ? now if it is to be beileved that that early onos wins games and that "EVERYONE" is doing it then answer me this do you think the rest of the aliens choices are balanced ??? coz we can only assume that the devs that relase the data on win rates take into account the early onos games or do you think they leave them out ?
So do somthing to early onos by all means but a massive alien buff is required if they do this, coz lets face it early onos became the winning strat for a reason !
<!--quoteo(post=2022971:date=Nov 14 2012, 02:11 AM:name=arnyboy87)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arnyboy87 @ Nov 14 2012, 02:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022971"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The real problem is that aliens feel as if they need to do early onos to hold on to there 2nd hive long enough to get the rest of the upgrades and take this into consideration we all agree that early onos is op !?!,, but we also agree that games are 50/50 ? now if it is to be beileved that that early onos wins games and that "EVERYONE" is doing it then answer me this do you think the rest of the aliens choices are balanced ??? coz we can only assume that the devs that relase the data on win rates take into account the early onos games or do you think they leave them out ?
So do somthing to early onos by all means but a massive alien buff is required if they do this, coz lets face it early onos became the winning strat for a reason !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i've seen lots of games aliens winning without using early onos tactic, actually earliest onos in these games is usually at 20mins to make those final pushes.
trust me when i say this, simply taking early onos out from aliens without doing anything else would make this game 10x times more fun in public games, because now the game is over within 4minutes if aliens are truly using onos tactic and marines fail to counter it within these 4mins from beginning of the game, and yet that game can last 20-40mins even when it was over on the first 4mins because of this stupid tactic.
Would the game be balanced ? nope, marines would be better for certain, but would the game be fun in public games ? yes, because there is a lot different skill levels of players, and aliens could still win a game, there is tons of tactics for aliens wich aren't used because onos tactic is by far too superior to them.
actually, i'm looking for server where early onos tactic is banned, is there any server like it ? Because i would definetly join there.
The OP isn't wrong. The aliens are terrible outside of this one strategy. Marines are so much better in every respect, mostly due to scalability and high resource retention, and dying as a higher life form pretty much spells the doom for your team since skulks don't scale. The Onos drop rush it the only viable alien strategy and it is awesome.
<!--quoteo(post=2023244:date=Nov 14 2012, 11:59 AM:name=mR.Waffles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mR.Waffles @ Nov 14 2012, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The OP isn't wrong. The aliens are terrible outside of this one strategy. Marines are so much better in every respect, mostly due to scalability and high resource retention, and dying as a higher life form pretty much spells the doom for your team since skulks don't scale. The Onos drop rush it the only viable alien strategy and it is awesome.
Fast Onos drop, or die trying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> See I don't agree with this at all. Like I said I rarely see the strat used in pub games and aliens win all the time. I'm not denying that this is the best alien strategy and mandatory in competitive games, but the claims that it's a game-breaking issue ruining ordinary games is just false. That said, the longer UWE takes to resolve it the more alien comms will catch on and the pub alien winrate will start going up and up.
Welp, bye then OP. No need to hang around here posting. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Growth isn't for everyone. Some people just don't like to wait around while things are iterated on. If you want to leave, then do so; you won't be alone, and nobody will stop you. ###### about it on here isn't helping anything though; we have pages on pages on pages of helpful discussion on this subject from people who actually care enough to keep playing.
<!--quoteo(post=2022060:date=Nov 13 2012, 06:08 AM:name=LUSITANER)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Nov 13 2012, 06:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022060"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All the aliens want now is to go onos eggs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
False, I want nothing more than to Lerk with Spore, Regen and silence, and as a mostly aliens player I am sick through my teeth of jerk khammanders who try to repeat their kindergarten ABC's every damn game. Best game I ever had was where the Khammander kitted out Lerks asap, and 4 of us made a living hell for the marines while the other half of the team were skulking and destroying RT's. (Not because we were dominating, but because it was fun)
I want the early Onos gone as much as you do, but not through putting a timer or cap or anything like that on it, but by making Lerks and Fades 100% of what they should be. The Lerk is almost there just need to be either cheaper or better towards endgame, but the Fade needs lots of help. Fade is currently bugged with a swipe delay after blink, and lerk is also bugged with the poison component of the bite missing. And even if those were fixed they wouldn't be 100% up to balance.
Aliens have been shoehorned into this strategy by the developers.
My problem with early onos is that it's very BORING for the other players who are stuck w/o upgrades/abilities because all the t.res is going toward onos.
I don't mind playing skulk (in fact, I prefer it to lerk or gorge), but I want to have leap at least (and preferably celerity).
<!--quoteo(post=2023263:date=Nov 14 2012, 09:17 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 14 2012, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Welp, bye then OP. No need to hang around here posting. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Growth isn't for everyone. Some people just don't like to wait around while things are iterated on. If you want to leave, then do so; you won't be alone, and nobody will stop you. ###### about it on here isn't helping anything though; we have pages on pages on pages of helpful discussion on this subject from people who actually care enough to keep playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not playing until they fix it is fine too. He doesn't HAVE to play if the game's current iteration isn't fun for him, but he didn't say he was going to quit for good.
<!--quoteo(post=2023398:date=Nov 14 2012, 01:18 PM:name=Ahnteis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ahnteis @ Nov 14 2012, 01:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023398"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My problem with early onos is that it's very BORING for the other players who are stuck w/o upgrades/abilities because all the t.res is going toward onos.
I don't mind playing skulk (in fact, I prefer it to lerk or gorge), but I want to have leap at least (and preferably celerity).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is -- you don't really give up these upgrades. In most games, you actually get your upgrades faster after the onos is out because he a) secures more harvesters, b) shuts down hive pushes, and c) allow you to commit more skulks to respond to RT pressure.
You may delay your initial upgrade by a few minutes,. but you still get very fast leap (most people will get it before onos egg) and cara/celerity follow in a minute or two after the onos comes out.
People are complaining about something that costs 75 res and kills stuff worth zero with ease. Why not complain about the jetpack and shotgun combo which costs 30 res, kills skulks with ease and only has to worry about Onos at close range?
<!--quoteo(post=2023414:date=Nov 14 2012, 02:32 PM:name=Bullet_Force)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullet_Force @ Nov 14 2012, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People are complaining about something that costs 75 res and kills stuff worth zero with ease. Why not complain about the jetpack and shotgun combo which costs 30 res, kills skulks with ease and only has to worry about Onos at close range?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The issue isn't with the power of the Onos but with the timing. The 2 base onos drop timing attack rush is the best and only viable alien strategy in the current linear metagame.
Marines are better than aliens in every other regard. The only way to win against moderately competent marines is with this "cheesy" play.
in most games it isn't 'upgrades OR onos'. it's too easy to get both very early, because marines just aren't aggressive to limit aliens to 2-3 harvesters or to even put pressure on hives early in the game (i.e. before onos and probably fades too).
medpacks and ammo drops are essential for the marines to be aggressive and the game balance to work, but those are just sloppily implemented. commanders aren't fast enough to respond to requests even if they wanted to. part of that is UI. part of that is lack of teamwork. part of that is commanders not having the spare res because marines weren't aggressive enough to get more extractors (yes, it's cyclical).
therefore, marines play so defensive. also, they don't want to lose their shotgun or whatever weapon they bought with pres. also they don't want to spend pres on something as boring as landmines defending an extractor... you'll see a lot of entire teams going to kill a lone skulk that's hitting whatever resource node is closest to base while aliens get 4-7 harvesters and onos and all upgrades because it's easy.
alien skulks are a lot more aggressive maybe because a respawn costs them almost nothing in terms of res and because they move faster. as a result they often limit marines to 2-3 extractors even before fades/onos come into play. they don't even have to worry about defending the 2nd hive because marines will be too slow to attack it.
it really is about how much skill is required to play each race decently. the difference between alien and marine is enormous, both for commander and soldier. even if they fix competitive balance a bit, it won't really change the fundamental issue that aliens are just way too easy and too rewarding to play well for a typical low-skill game. all aliens need are a commander who knows the basics of what to build (even if they do things are out of order, it will be fine) and someone who can play onos (probably the easiest task in the entire game). on the other hand marines have to basically win by 6-8 minutes with bad aim, bad teamwork, and bad coordination. it's unreasonable
also, it seems using medpacks properly is overpowered (i may be wrong). it might be better to just let meds/ammo be player-controlled with pres and a cooldown. this might bridge the gap between strategies in competitive and public games at least a little bit. it could also be turned into health regen instead of instaheal if needed.
<!--quoteo(post=2023604:date=Nov 14 2012, 01:01 PM:name=biz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (biz @ Nov 14 2012, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023604"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->in most games it isn't 'upgrades OR onos'. it's too easy to get both very early, because marines just aren't aggressive to limit aliens to 2-3 harvesters or to even put pressure on hives early in the game (i.e. before onos and probably fades too).
medpacks and ammo drops are essential for the marines to be aggressive and the game balance to work, but those are just sloppily implemented. commanders aren't fast enough to respond to requests even if they wanted to. part of that is UI. part of that is lack of teamwork. part of that is commanders not having the spare res because marines weren't aggressive enough to get more extractors (yes, it's cyclical).
therefore, marines play so defensive. also, they don't want to lose their shotgun or whatever weapon they bought with pres. also they don't want to spend pres on something as boring as landmines defending an extractor... you'll see a lot of entire teams going to kill a lone skulk that's hitting whatever resource node is closest to base while aliens get 4-7 harvesters and onos and all upgrades because it's easy.
alien skulks are a lot more aggressive maybe because a respawn costs them almost nothing in terms of res and because they move faster. as a result they often limit marines to 2-3 extractors even before fades/onos come into play. they don't even have to worry about defending the 2nd hive because marines will be too slow to attack it.
it really is about how much skill is required to play each race decently. the difference between alien and marine is enormous, both for commander and soldier. even if they fix competitive balance a bit, it won't really change the fundamental issue that aliens are just way too easy and too rewarding to play well for a typical low-skill game. all aliens need are a commander who knows the basics of what to build (even if they do things are out of order, it will be fine) and someone who can play onos (probably the easiest task in the entire game). on the other hand marines have to basically win by 6-8 minutes with bad aim, bad teamwork, and bad coordination. it's unreasonable
also, it seems using medpacks properly is overpowered (i may be wrong). it might be better to just let meds/ammo be player-controlled with pres and a cooldown. this might bridge the gap between strategies in competitive and public games at least a little bit. it could also be turned into health regen instead of instaheal if needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it isn't as easy as "limiting aliens to 2-3 extractors", nope, you have to kill extractors in aliens start hive, you need to constantly harass their upgrades and commander has to scan for these upgrades, com has to scan all possible extractor positions and marines need to form strike team to snipe these harvester and get out, same goes for upgrades, it's the only way to stop onos at 5-6min, you can have onos egg at 6mins of the game with just 3 extractors.
i know, i've seen it, i've experienced it and i was once in pro marine team who countered this tactic quite well, aliens never had more than 3 extractors, and even if they did have 3 they all 3 usually went down quite fast, that game was a hell of a mess though, marine team didn't have more than 3 extractor either because marines are forced to play so aggressive, giving marine extractors a free lunch for alien team.
<!--quoteo(post=2021782:date=Nov 13 2012, 03:06 AM:name=Juomari)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juomari @ Nov 13 2012, 03:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2021782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you can have onos in 4mins, by holding 50% of resource nodes in the map, my team killed 3x early onoses in the game and we still lost because there is just no way stopping aliens having more onoses when that first one comes out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, that's the case if your Marines are absolutely atrocious. Marines that actually know how to play (note: not that they're better, just that they know how the game works) will destroy that "50% res node" number you so casually throw out there and box in your hive in no time at all.
Fast Onos only works if the Marines let it. If they scan the Aliens hive and see that they haven't expanded past three res nodes they should know what's going on and immediately take out those resource nodes to completely screw the strategy. Just because a strategy is fast, doesn't mean it's unstoppable. It just requires the other team to step it up a notch and be aggressive instead of slowly building up two or three completely locked down area's. The aliens will still get their <i>one</i> Onos, make no mistake. It will just be slower and less effective when it comes out.
If the Marines get into your hive and kill the eggs, where are you going to put that early Onos anyway?
Comments
I still enjoy the first 5-6 minutes though... I'll just server hop when the onos comes out or the comm researches exo's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this, i had most fun in the first week of ns2, it was absolutely golden gametime, most fun i had in years, but then i took onos to the knee.
Ah please, on what servers are you playing then? Today i played again 5 games, and the onos-early-strat was not being used these games. The golden times are not over, or i'm just lucky i guess i don't these early-onos thing not much.
well, firstly, i try to avoid rookiefriendly servers, other than that pretty random, mostly finnish servers and official servers, i only play 16p servers so it's 8v8
and to me, this is huge problem, it's getting bigger and bigger everyday, so it's now on the point where i stop enjoying the game because i can honestly say that 50% of the games i play uses onos asap tactic.
joining alien khammander won't do it, because i find it most boring gameplay ever because it's just waiting resources mostly, you can't interact to flow of the game like you can do as marine commander.
so, i just simply quit playing at all because i don't want to play the game like "oh, i sure hope this is not another onos rush game..." or if i'm marine commander "i better keep scanning all rt nodes and hives all the time and order my marines to ignore everything else and concenrate on enemy rt's in order to stop aliens having 4-6min onos"
i rofled at the bold xDDDD
However this is true and annoying. All the aliens want now is to go onos eggs. And its especially annoying at veil when you as a marine are holding Nano DUal extractors and most of the other ones and BAM! an onos out of 0 res comes claim Nano..... its unfair :\
there's one problem, let me quote again "everyone", that's the problem, you need too much to stop onos giving rest of the aliens free lunch on your team resourcenodes, om nom nom, and if that onos plays def, you can't kill it so easily, by the time you get it killed there is probably 2 more onoses coming.
remember that onos is still faster than marine, and with right use of charge you can retreat quite fast, assuming you're not suiciding with it into middle of marine base.
yeah, i did, i complained about shadehive and i complained about onos.
that's because i want to see this game fixed, that's how much i care about this game.
however i missed many points in the last onos topic and i haven't seen "lifeform explosion" effect yet, wich is also ruining the game, and if you put timer on onos egg would only enforce lifeform explosion effect.
if someone don't know what is lifeform explosion, it's where aliens all suddenly goes certain lifeform, because commander is using all the tres for upgrades, unlike in ns1 aliens now can afford to save for higher lifeforms, in ns1 most ppls needed to go gorge, build upgradechamber or resource tower to delay their lifeform, giving most aliens different ammount of resources and so being it unable to suddenly explode whole team to higher lifeform. In ns2 however, the wholeteam can afford to save for lerk / onos / fade etc giving aliens element of suprise and overpower marines by sudden.
so i'm sorry for making doublepost, i truly am.
that's because i want to see this game fixed, that's how much i care about this game.
however i missed many points in the last onos topic and i haven't seen "lifeform explosion" effect yet, wich is also ruining the game, and if you put timer on onos egg would only enforce lifeform explosion effect.
if someone don't know what is lifeform explosion, it's where aliens all suddenly goes certain lifeform, because commander is using all the tres for upgrades, unlike in ns1 aliens now can afford to save for higher lifeforms, in ns1 most ppls needed to go gorge, build upgradechamber or resource tower to delay their lifeform, giving most aliens different ammount of resources and so being it unable to suddenly explode whole team to higher lifeform. In ns2 however, the wholeteam can afford to save for lerk / onos / fade etc giving aliens element of suprise and overpower marines by sudden.
so i'm sorry for making doublepost, i truly am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea you're really not getting any points, if you're the kinda guy that jumps into the hive just to build shade and get camo while simultaneously screwing your team then whining about it... Well to be honest I wouldn't miss you in the slightest.
Try playing on bigger servers thats also a problem for you. When your playing 10v10 or 12v12 one onos matters less, is more likely to make a mistake.
Thats another reason why I don't do it to be honest, too much risk that a random newbie is going to lose my early onos right away and then my teams gona be screwed.
I just got out of a game where I had to basically BEG the alien comm to research upgrades, only to have him say "I can't afford it" because he was spamming Onos eggs the entire game!
It's simply not fun on either side to have to fight an endless stream of Onoses, only to get killed because of how literally limitless they are, or to be someone who doesn't want to be an Onos, and who wants the game to be actually fun and balanced.
I'm not saying it's easy, it probably isn't even realistic in pubs, but to say it's impossible is simply wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
most of the ESL games featuring marine victories over Onos were Archaea completely dominating the early-game and controlling Harvester counts, to have the Onos come out with exertus already at a severe disadvantage. Onos was the only thing keeping exertus in the game that long (and their solid play and teamwork around it).
edit: regarding the original post it's already been addressed by Flayra as being an issue, best thing to do is wait :>
So do somthing to early onos by all means but a massive alien buff is required if they do this, coz lets face it early onos became the winning strat for a reason !
So do somthing to early onos by all means but a massive alien buff is required if they do this, coz lets face it early onos became the winning strat for a reason !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i've seen lots of games aliens winning without using early onos tactic, actually earliest onos in these games is usually at 20mins to make those final pushes.
trust me when i say this, simply taking early onos out from aliens without doing anything else would make this game 10x times more fun in public games, because now the game is over within 4minutes if aliens are truly using onos tactic and marines fail to counter it within these 4mins from beginning of the game, and yet that game can last 20-40mins even when it was over on the first 4mins because of this stupid tactic.
Would the game be balanced ? nope, marines would be better for certain, but would the game be fun in public games ? yes, because there is a lot different skill levels of players, and aliens could still win a game, there is tons of tactics for aliens wich aren't used because onos tactic is by far too superior to them.
actually, i'm looking for server where early onos tactic is banned, is there any server like it ? Because i would definetly join there.
Fast Onos drop, or die trying.
Fast Onos drop, or die trying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See I don't agree with this at all. Like I said I rarely see the strat used in pub games and aliens win all the time. I'm not denying that this is the best alien strategy and mandatory in competitive games, but the claims that it's a game-breaking issue ruining ordinary games is just false. That said, the longer UWE takes to resolve it the more alien comms will catch on and the pub alien winrate will start going up and up.
Growth isn't for everyone. Some people just don't like to wait around while things are iterated on. If you want to leave, then do so; you won't be alone, and nobody will stop you. ###### about it on here isn't helping anything though; we have pages on pages on pages of helpful discussion on this subject from people who actually care enough to keep playing.
False, I want nothing more than to Lerk with Spore, Regen and silence, and as a mostly aliens player I am sick through my teeth of jerk khammanders who try to repeat their kindergarten ABC's every damn game. Best game I ever had was where the Khammander kitted out Lerks asap, and 4 of us made a living hell for the marines while the other half of the team were skulking and destroying RT's. (Not because we were dominating, but because it was fun)
I want the early Onos gone as much as you do, but not through putting a timer or cap or anything like that on it, but by making Lerks and Fades 100% of what they should be. The Lerk is almost there just need to be either cheaper or better towards endgame, but the Fade needs lots of help. Fade is currently bugged with a swipe delay after blink, and lerk is also bugged with the poison component of the bite missing. And even if those were fixed they wouldn't be 100% up to balance.
Aliens have been shoehorned into this strategy by the developers.
I don't mind playing skulk (in fact, I prefer it to lerk or gorge), but I want to have leap at least (and preferably celerity).
Growth isn't for everyone. Some people just don't like to wait around while things are iterated on. If you want to leave, then do so; you won't be alone, and nobody will stop you. ###### about it on here isn't helping anything though; we have pages on pages on pages of helpful discussion on this subject from people who actually care enough to keep playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not playing until they fix it is fine too. He doesn't HAVE to play if the game's current iteration isn't fun for him, but he didn't say he was going to quit for good.
I don't mind playing skulk (in fact, I prefer it to lerk or gorge), but I want to have leap at least (and preferably celerity).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is -- you don't really give up these upgrades. In most games, you actually get your upgrades faster after the onos is out because he a) secures more harvesters, b) shuts down hive pushes, and c) allow you to commit more skulks to respond to RT pressure.
You may delay your initial upgrade by a few minutes,. but you still get very fast leap (most people will get it before onos egg) and cara/celerity follow in a minute or two after the onos comes out.
The issue isn't with the power of the Onos but with the timing. The 2 base onos drop timing attack rush is the best and only viable alien strategy in the current linear metagame.
Marines are better than aliens in every other regard. The only way to win against moderately competent marines is with this "cheesy" play.
medpacks and ammo drops are essential for the marines to be aggressive and the game balance to work, but those are just sloppily implemented. commanders aren't fast enough to respond to requests even if they wanted to. part of that is UI. part of that is lack of teamwork. part of that is commanders not having the spare res because marines weren't aggressive enough to get more extractors (yes, it's cyclical).
therefore, marines play so defensive. also, they don't want to lose their shotgun or whatever weapon they bought with pres. also they don't want to spend pres on something as boring as landmines defending an extractor... you'll see a lot of entire teams going to kill a lone skulk that's hitting whatever resource node is closest to base while aliens get 4-7 harvesters and onos and all upgrades because it's easy.
alien skulks are a lot more aggressive maybe because a respawn costs them almost nothing in terms of res and because they move faster. as a result they often limit marines to 2-3 extractors even before fades/onos come into play. they don't even have to worry about defending the 2nd hive because marines will be too slow to attack it.
it really is about how much skill is required to play each race decently. the difference between alien and marine is enormous, both for commander and soldier. even if they fix competitive balance a bit, it won't really change the fundamental issue that aliens are just way too easy and too rewarding to play well for a typical low-skill game. all aliens need are a commander who knows the basics of what to build (even if they do things are out of order, it will be fine) and someone who can play onos (probably the easiest task in the entire game). on the other hand marines have to basically win by 6-8 minutes with bad aim, bad teamwork, and bad coordination. it's unreasonable
also, it seems using medpacks properly is overpowered (i may be wrong). it might be better to just let meds/ammo be player-controlled with pres and a cooldown. this might bridge the gap between strategies in competitive and public games at least a little bit. it could also be turned into health regen instead of instaheal if needed.
medpacks and ammo drops are essential for the marines to be aggressive and the game balance to work, but those are just sloppily implemented. commanders aren't fast enough to respond to requests even if they wanted to. part of that is UI. part of that is lack of teamwork. part of that is commanders not having the spare res because marines weren't aggressive enough to get more extractors (yes, it's cyclical).
therefore, marines play so defensive. also, they don't want to lose their shotgun or whatever weapon they bought with pres. also they don't want to spend pres on something as boring as landmines defending an extractor... you'll see a lot of entire teams going to kill a lone skulk that's hitting whatever resource node is closest to base while aliens get 4-7 harvesters and onos and all upgrades because it's easy.
alien skulks are a lot more aggressive maybe because a respawn costs them almost nothing in terms of res and because they move faster. as a result they often limit marines to 2-3 extractors even before fades/onos come into play. they don't even have to worry about defending the 2nd hive because marines will be too slow to attack it.
it really is about how much skill is required to play each race decently. the difference between alien and marine is enormous, both for commander and soldier. even if they fix competitive balance a bit, it won't really change the fundamental issue that aliens are just way too easy and too rewarding to play well for a typical low-skill game. all aliens need are a commander who knows the basics of what to build (even if they do things are out of order, it will be fine) and someone who can play onos (probably the easiest task in the entire game). on the other hand marines have to basically win by 6-8 minutes with bad aim, bad teamwork, and bad coordination. it's unreasonable
also, it seems using medpacks properly is overpowered (i may be wrong). it might be better to just let meds/ammo be player-controlled with pres and a cooldown. this might bridge the gap between strategies in competitive and public games at least a little bit. it could also be turned into health regen instead of instaheal if needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it isn't as easy as "limiting aliens to 2-3 extractors", nope, you have to kill extractors in aliens start hive, you need to constantly harass their upgrades and commander has to scan for these upgrades, com has to scan all possible extractor positions and marines need to form strike team to snipe these harvester and get out, same goes for upgrades, it's the only way to stop onos at 5-6min, you can have onos egg at 6mins of the game with just 3 extractors.
i know, i've seen it, i've experienced it and i was once in pro marine team who countered this tactic quite well, aliens never had more than 3 extractors, and even if they did have 3 they all 3 usually went down quite fast, that game was a hell of a mess though, marine team didn't have more than 3 extractor either because marines are forced to play so aggressive, giving marine extractors a free lunch for alien team.
Uh, that's the case if your Marines are absolutely atrocious. Marines that actually know how to play (note: not that they're better, just that they know how the game works) will destroy that "50% res node" number you so casually throw out there and box in your hive in no time at all.
If the Marines get into your hive and kill the eggs, where are you going to put that early Onos anyway?