early onos and lifeform explosions
Juomari
Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167141Members
Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167141Members
<div class="IPBDescription">yeah, i'm quitting until they fix this.</div>This game is literally unplayable, in public games marines have absolutely no chance of winning if aliens have slightest clue what to do.
you can have onos in 4mins, by holding 50% of resource nodes in the map, my team killed 3x early onoses in the game and we still lost because there is just no way stopping aliens having more onoses when that first one comes out.
Game evolves ONLY stopping that early onos and denying alien resource towers so they can't have early onos, if marine team fails to attack their resourcetowers and rush their early hives they will lose, they have to ignore all the resource nodes around the map because there is just no time for them, there has to be 1 designated marine to build resource towers here and there and rest of the team HAS to be aggressive, you need to deny everysingle resourcetower and early hive or it's lost game because BAM onos spam starts.
there is no strategy in this game, games are so linear, stop that early onos or lose, get that early onos or lose, it's so stupid, and there is no stopping aliens to have early onos unless you manage to hold all alien keypoints so they have only 1hive, sooner or later they will have that EARLY onos.
and early onos is not only problem this game has, it also has problem with lifeform explosions, we won a game with 8x lerk because they came earlygame, they rushed marine base with adrealine and regen, there was gas everywhere and spikes raining, there was no chance marines could have hold the attack. same goes with fades and onoses, whole team can save for onoses and suddenly BAM there is 8 onos and there is no way chance in hell you can stop them.
This game is only about rushing enemy bases and hives, you can't stop it and you can't win without it, if you lockup your bases as marines building turrets and focusing on defence, you just delay the inevetable loss.
marines rushing hive ? well let's rush marine base and force them to beacon, trollolol, so fun, if aliens know how to play they know this is hardcounter to marine rush, there is no way 1-3 marines can defend the base from skulk rush and there is no way 1-4 marines can rush a hive.
but now i had enough, i played 10-15 games yesterday wich all was about rushing those early hives and rushing their rt's so they don't get that onos, most of the games we lost because they still got onos sooner or later and even if it was later, it still was mid game at max.
So, i really hope team's main priority is to balance early onos SOON, because this game is unplayable in public in it's current situation.
before you start to tell me strategies how to kill onoses : it doesn't matter, even if you kill it there is another one coming out, it's exhausting marines out while aliens get little by little more resource towers and more onoses, then you're going to say that well, if aliens spam onoses they miss out important upgrades, here is your important upgrades : carapace, celerity and leap, after that it's onos spam till the game is over, with those 3 upgrades you upgrade skulk and onos to their full capacity, everysingle onos egg is worth the money after those upgrades.
this is both boring to aliencommander and boring ###### to everysingle player in ns2, and i've had enough, i was hoping they fast fix onos egg with timer, so you can't have onos till 15mins have passed in the game but no, i quess that would have made game too much fun and that is not their intention.
i only had fun in games where khammander was "noob" and not planting even single onos egg even when they had 2 hives and 4rt's, but "wasting" resources to whips and chambers(crags, shifts, shades ) those games are even and fun, sometimes aliens wins and sometimes marines wins.
just adding timer won't help, it only delay's inevetable lifeform explosion rush, but atleast i think it would make games a bit more fun, biggest problem i see with this game is adding aliens tres AND still having pres, there is no way you can stop aliens having lifeform explosion without removing tres and going for ns1 style, in ns1 this wasn't a problem because aliens had only pres wich they had to use to restowers, hives etc, they gained resources so slowly, even if some ppl in alien team saved for higher lifeform, it came later in the game and lifeform explosions / early high lifeform wasn't possible.
you can have onos in 4mins, by holding 50% of resource nodes in the map, my team killed 3x early onoses in the game and we still lost because there is just no way stopping aliens having more onoses when that first one comes out.
Game evolves ONLY stopping that early onos and denying alien resource towers so they can't have early onos, if marine team fails to attack their resourcetowers and rush their early hives they will lose, they have to ignore all the resource nodes around the map because there is just no time for them, there has to be 1 designated marine to build resource towers here and there and rest of the team HAS to be aggressive, you need to deny everysingle resourcetower and early hive or it's lost game because BAM onos spam starts.
there is no strategy in this game, games are so linear, stop that early onos or lose, get that early onos or lose, it's so stupid, and there is no stopping aliens to have early onos unless you manage to hold all alien keypoints so they have only 1hive, sooner or later they will have that EARLY onos.
and early onos is not only problem this game has, it also has problem with lifeform explosions, we won a game with 8x lerk because they came earlygame, they rushed marine base with adrealine and regen, there was gas everywhere and spikes raining, there was no chance marines could have hold the attack. same goes with fades and onoses, whole team can save for onoses and suddenly BAM there is 8 onos and there is no way chance in hell you can stop them.
This game is only about rushing enemy bases and hives, you can't stop it and you can't win without it, if you lockup your bases as marines building turrets and focusing on defence, you just delay the inevetable loss.
marines rushing hive ? well let's rush marine base and force them to beacon, trollolol, so fun, if aliens know how to play they know this is hardcounter to marine rush, there is no way 1-3 marines can defend the base from skulk rush and there is no way 1-4 marines can rush a hive.
but now i had enough, i played 10-15 games yesterday wich all was about rushing those early hives and rushing their rt's so they don't get that onos, most of the games we lost because they still got onos sooner or later and even if it was later, it still was mid game at max.
So, i really hope team's main priority is to balance early onos SOON, because this game is unplayable in public in it's current situation.
before you start to tell me strategies how to kill onoses : it doesn't matter, even if you kill it there is another one coming out, it's exhausting marines out while aliens get little by little more resource towers and more onoses, then you're going to say that well, if aliens spam onoses they miss out important upgrades, here is your important upgrades : carapace, celerity and leap, after that it's onos spam till the game is over, with those 3 upgrades you upgrade skulk and onos to their full capacity, everysingle onos egg is worth the money after those upgrades.
this is both boring to aliencommander and boring ###### to everysingle player in ns2, and i've had enough, i was hoping they fast fix onos egg with timer, so you can't have onos till 15mins have passed in the game but no, i quess that would have made game too much fun and that is not their intention.
i only had fun in games where khammander was "noob" and not planting even single onos egg even when they had 2 hives and 4rt's, but "wasting" resources to whips and chambers(crags, shifts, shades ) those games are even and fun, sometimes aliens wins and sometimes marines wins.
just adding timer won't help, it only delay's inevetable lifeform explosion rush, but atleast i think it would make games a bit more fun, biggest problem i see with this game is adding aliens tres AND still having pres, there is no way you can stop aliens having lifeform explosion without removing tres and going for ns1 style, in ns1 this wasn't a problem because aliens had only pres wich they had to use to restowers, hives etc, they gained resources so slowly, even if some ppl in alien team saved for higher lifeform, it came later in the game and lifeform explosions / early high lifeform wasn't possible.
Comments
i think they should stop thinking about balance of the game and make the game <b><u>FUN</u></b>, because FUN is what bring more people in, ofcourse, the game can't be too imbalanced either, but i think FUN is most important factor here, they need to make game that it's fun to play in public games, and right now it is not, because marines have no chance in hell for winning if aliens know what to do, marines needs to be way too organized and way too good players to win, and in public games that's just asking way too much.
i had fun in launch week, people didn't know what was early onos or even what was onos, games was mostly even and fun, different strategies were used a lot and all games was different and just because someone went shade and planted shades to every rt, didn't mean aliens lost the game, or if marines built artillery that didn't mean aliens won a game, there was so much variety that i absolutely fell in love with the game, but now this game just needs to be fixed before i even consider returning.
Then again, maybe we could work together.
Genrally, I find it about killing hives. Summit has some good spots, the eastward route from sub to xroads works very nice.
PS: If the best ...comp..!..winz... can do is a month, we've won. I've said this before. And befor that.
yes i do, and onos spam is boring as hell as alien.
they don't, if aliens get onos up too soon game is over, even if you manage to kill that one ( wich requires almost whole team while aliens devour your rt's and key locations else where ) there is another onos egg coming because aliens don't have as vital upgrades you HAVE To have as marines have.
Marines won 8 out of 9 games in the last major tournament. The dominant strategy was early onos.
I'm not saying it's easy, it probably isn't even realistic in pubs, but to say it's impossible is simply wrong.
assuming, that aliens aren't newcomers to game, please do tell me.
how can you 1. kill onos where you need nearly whole team, probably shotguns and ambush and mines. 2. hold your rt's while skulks devours them 3. kill alien rt's and second hive so they don't get another onos AT THE SAMETIME.
like i said, killing that onos won't get you far unless you kill it the minute they get it, but then again if that happens aliens are just plain newbies.
I'm not saying it's easy, it probably isn't even realistic in pubs, but to say it's impossible is simply wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
like you said, to expect this in pubs is... yeah.... it's closer to say it's impossible than realistic.
edit : and i'm pretty sure those marines won the game because they managed to deny second hive and resource towers in very early game.
Or was that rhetorical?
2. Depends on where the onos is. Armoryblocking is viable to keep the onos away from your RTs. Then you only have to worry about skulks. Which should be pretty ok, seeing as you should have weapons 3, or at least weapons 2.
3. You snipe them and run the ¤#% away. Do damage where you can.
I'm not saying it's easy, but don't confuse impossible with hard as hell. I'm just saying that it's possible.
Btw, you can weld stuff faster than the onos can damage them.
2. Depends on where the onos is. Armoryblocking is viable to keep the onos away from your RTs.
3. You snipe them and run the ¤#% away
I'm not saying it's easy, don't confuse impossible with hard as hell. I'm just saying that it's possible.
Btw, you can weld stuff faster than the onos can damage them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i didn't say killing the onos was the problem, it's killing the onos before you lose the control of whole map, so yeah, by the time you get that onos killed aliens have : 1-3 new rt's, new onos egg.
and that's the problem.
You make it sound like it is impossible to win, I'm just saying that it most certainly isn't.
You make it sound like it is impossible to win, I'm just saying that it most certainly isn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and like i said, if aliens know how to play it is loss if aliens hold 4rt and 2hive and onos, they can easily play def and forcing marines to def and get more onoses, and note, if aliens know how to play, you can say that marines can win the game if they only have 1base and aliens controls the rest of the map, in theory they can win if aliens don't know how to play.
if you want to win early onos tactic, you need to play aggressive BEFORE they get onos, that means rushing their hives and rt's so onos gets DELAYED, and that is b-######, it just shows how much this game evolves around onoses, and that's the problem here.
You make it sound like it is impossible to win, I'm just saying that it most certainly isn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not impossible, its just extremely unlikely on a pub server.
Whenever I go early-onos as alien comm, I have pretty much won the game unless an idiot jumps in the egg and dies. (seen onos fall into pits, or just attacked marine base instead of deny expansion)
Also, when i not play as alien-commander it's happens once that another commander dropped an early-onos after 10 minutes. But this game was fail, because the Onos was controlled by a noob and dies fast with rushing in the marine base.
And I can only say, that this whole thread is a giant exaggeration. It sounds like QQ, where we would need some objective analysis. And this "cry as loud as you can" is not a base for a discussion.
Yes, the early onos is a problem. Is it happening in every pub game, say alone 50% of them? Absolutely no. Even yesterday, I had so many games without an early onos. Aliens can win this games too. The skill level is hugely variable from team to team since release. And it doesn't need an noob-alien team to deny them most of the resource towers of the map. Letting aliens get 50% of the map is a failure from the start. Also hunting an onos down with the whole team is no problem if the com coordinates his people. You can do it fast enough to not lose your expansion. The next onos does take a while than. And what do you lose? Some free LMG marines vs. 75 res onos.
But what ever. We don't need another thread talking about the early onos. And in no case do we need a thread that absolutely exaggerate the problem and being not constructive in the slightest.
Not like we've been saying that this strategy is bugged and needs a rework for a few months now though
let me tell you a story...
yesterday i did play in a game where both teams were VERY good players, and aliens ofcourse tried to go early onos, but marines won.
The way we won was so cheesy and painful and ugh.... this IS a HUGE problem, only way for marines to counter this is to organize rushes to alien resourcetowers and hives, we managed to kill their rt's all the time (but not hive) so they were naturally on low on resources, bad side is that so were we, aliens killed rt's all the time and we didn't never have more than 3rt, until the game got to the point where aliens just rushed point B so, com beacon us to base and we were to rush point A, so that we get hive down, aliens build hive to point B and this went on for quite long, until we got A3 and W3 and jetpacks, this point we just rushed all hives down from them and win, neither team never had more than 3rt's, if it was anyother way, they would have gotten onos and just stomped us, commander knew this and all marines knew this, this is why we won.
the other game i played just today is where aliens had only 40% of rt's, we hold 60%, but appearently that was way too many resources to aliens because they had 3 onoses within 10minutes of the game, we managed to kill them all but it was still lost game because by the time they got control of all rt's thanks to 3 onoses, we lost because we didn't play so aggressive, all the time killing their rt's etc, and i think our team couldn't have done it as they weren't so good.
just because there is games where khammander is noob and doesn't know that planting onos is never a bad idea, doesn't mean this isn't a huge problem.... khammander has NOTHING important to spend resources after carapace and celerity and leap, so planting onos egg is always worth the ress, even if onos does nothing but rush to base and die it creates distraction and forces marines to beacon giving skulks more than enough time to attack somewhere else and chomp rt's / powernodes.
that's the way it is, sorry if you disagree but early onoses is a problem in public games, it's not fun for anyone, it's boring, it's predictable but if your team doesn't know what to do you can do nothing about it....
and for the last time, it's not problem to get that onos down, that has nothing to do with ANYTHING, problem is, what can the alien team do BEFORE onos goes down ?
I see this different. The alien commander is not noob, when he doesn't place an early onos. He just doesn't want to play the same boring tactic every game. You say yourself it is so boring, but accuse coms, that doesn't use this boring tactic every time as noob. You should instead try to win in other ways. Drifters with encyme, forward shifts + craigs, and many other things can work too.
Again, I don't say it is not a problem. But we know this already and many constructive solution ideas have been posted in the other thread. But I can't understand why you call this game boring but accusing any com that doesn't play this same boring tactic of being noob. It's not that aliens can't win without that tactic. And just because the skills of the teams are different doesn't mean they are "noobs". Try to be less radical and see the gray between the black and white.
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Nice story, how this can be boring? Looks like alot of action and working together as marines.... should have felt wonderfull when you won the game! But i agree, 'to' early onos is no fun, but then... what is early... i have also seen exo's very fast walking down hyves when aliens were just unupgraded skulks.
Again, I don't say it is not a problem. But we know this already and many constructive solution ideas have been posted in the other thread. But I can't understand why you call this game boring but accusing any com that doesn't play this same boring tactic of being noob. It's not that aliens can't win without that tactic. And just because the skills of the teams are different doesn't mean they are "noobs". Try to be less radical and see the gray between the black and white.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what i meant with "noob commander" is that they are gimping their team when not planting onos egg.... i agree that these games are more fun and i also personally always play the same, not planting onos eggs, sorry if i was misleading, but the sad fact is that these commanders are simply gimping team in order to make game more fun.
it was fun, only because i saw onos tactic failing, sad truth is that this would never work with "mediocre" team, these guys was intense in ns2, they were PRO, and what is funny that alien team was actually mediocre players, mayby few "pro" guys, and yet we still had to STRUGGLE to win, i don't wonder at all that new players gets confused in "pro games" wich team is losing or winning, because they are very confusing.
Also, the reason wich made this "goodgame" both sad and not so fun as it could been, is that all we did was to stop aliens to reach onoses, wich is really sad imo, just shows how linear this game is yet again, we didn't use anything at all in this game, we didn't use resources to armories, we didn't push hives with phasegates and "base" near hive, because simply we couldn't afford it, meanwhile aliens might have gotten too many rt's and onos, that means there is less strategy in game and some stuff in game never got to be usen, it was only struggle with basic gear.
I still enjoy the first 5-6 minutes though... I'll just server hop when the onos comes out or the comm researches exo's.