A jetpack can make you more or less invincible to skulks, a big problem for lerks, extremely annoying to fades, and invincible to oni when there's high ground. Additionally it makes you move at an average speed higher than a skulk's in open space. All of that for 10 p/res?
It should cost more like 20-25 so jp+shotty is at least comparable to the cost of a fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1983868:date=Sep 27 2012, 03:49 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 27 2012, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983868"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I rarely use JP anymore since it's a waste of res and I can be just as effective without one. I don't need a JP to do well, but having one should drastically improve my effectiveness, yet it doesn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
JP has a higher skill ceiling, maybe you need more practice.
<!--quoteo(post=1983868:date=Sep 27 2012, 03:49 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 27 2012, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983868"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem is that they nerfed acceleration AND fuel consumption at the same time. They way overshot it and didn't double check it since nobody complained.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe nobody is complaining because their is nothing wrong w/ it. Funny that since they changed the JP, you're the only person who has complained about it....
Yeah, I'd like to second the "nobody is complaining because we don't think they suck" point, with the caveat that "nobody" refers to the lack of threads before this one.
If anything, I think JPs need to have a cost nerf a bit. It's kind of ridiculous how cheap they are, and upgrades will only make that worse after 1.0.
There is a trend where players want to nerf both alien and marine movement to pointlessness. Jetpacks are fine- it's just aliens need better movement. The whole "gimp everyone's movement so the game is easier" is kind of ruining the game. Basically everything should receive some sort of buff right now in terms of movement.
Actually I think, as it is right now, the movement is just about perfect. I think skulks maybe should be just a LITTLE bit faster, and jetpacks should probably be 20 res. As far as the actual mechanics though, I like it the way it is.
buff jetpacks and get focus back in the game ... lets do everything like in NS1 ... wheyyyy :D
no ... now for real ... JPs are too good in my opinion, cause u need like 5 skulkbites (?), or 4 fadeswipes (?) to kill an armor lvl 3 marine (correct me if im wrong ... and if the marine got a jetpack there is no ###### way to kill him, before the hive is killed ... and i dont start talking about 5v5 situations in cargo (on veil) ... depending on the hiveroom, the jetpacks are even more overpowered ...
i just hope, they get them balanced somehow ... maybe without bringing focus back in, but yeah ... at least balanced
For 10 res, its incredibly powerful. I find my survival rate increases 5 fold with a jetpack, and with a shotgun you can take down buckets of aliens.
Jetpacks work best in groups. Besides the suicide jetpacker with a grenade launcher, its always better to stick together and take turns on the ground. Tap to dodge attacks rather than float forever.
JPs were nerfed because there wasn't a good way to counter them.
This I feel was msotly because of how NS2 maps are designed with much more room for JPs to maneuver and dodge the Aliens. Plus the difficultly of landing hits with Fades and Skulks. In NS1 they were quite expensive, but with PRes you can equip your team quite efficiently. Also in NS1 the maps had more conflicts in corridors where you could hem in the JPs and kill them, even without their hardcounter Gorge Web. Plus NS1 had Focus so all you had to do was soften them (Lerk Gas!) and land 1 hit. Without it in NS2 you have to land considerably more hits and when they're low they could run away and heal up.
Yea buffing them at this point should be out of the question really, the only lifeforms that can somewhat effectively counter them currently are fades and skulks, but only with a second hive. Once that second hive is gone, aliens have no counters any more whatsoever. Granted lerk will get some love in 221, so maybe that will make him the T1 solution against jet-packers, but that's hard to predict at this point.
Oh and A3 + JPs is quite ridiculous indeed. (Not to mention that lategame commanders can easily medspam)
They were extremely over powered originally because as already said in this thread there was no way to counter them. This change simply balances things out, it does not make the jet pack over nerfed or useless by any means.
You just need to watch your fuel more carefully and not fly around aimlessly for 10 minutes.
<!--quoteo(post=1984079:date=Sep 28 2012, 01:45 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 28 2012, 01:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lol, I am amazed that people think jetpacks are acceptable how they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On certain maps they feel overpowered... on other maps they feel underpowered. Its all situational.
<!--quoteo(post=1984079:date=Sep 28 2012, 01:45 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 28 2012, 01:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lol, I am amazed that people think jetpacks are acceptable how they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think they should be faster, compared to ns1 it is like riding a cow.
Jet packs are in a pretty good place right now. Some rooms are too big -> too easy for jetpackers, but that is more of a map design problem. A few hive locations come to mind: Flight Control, Generator, Cargo. So, in my mind there is no need to change the jet packs.
Jet packs are fine right now imho and I play both marines and aliens. If you buff jetpacks, the price needs to go up and/or aliens needs more counters against shotgun jpers/GLs or whatever. I don't think a change is warranted right now. Dont fix what isn't broken ! Its the same reason why fade blink with adrenaline needed to change, they're not supposed to blink all over the map without keeping an eye on energy.
<!--quoteo(post=1983806:date=Sep 27 2012, 10:28 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 27 2012, 10:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jetpacks are too nerfed<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4i8gwxpAB1r7i36c.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> jetpacks are too overpowered, not nerfed. if you need your whole fuel for one room, you did something wrong. i can fly through the whole map without touching the ground and kill the hive with my melee weapon. i hate this complaining and crying, <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>why always people who play marines cry soooooooooo much?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> marines are overpowered, go buy a jetpack for only 10 resources and tell your team spread out to hives, you will faster win the game then you can say "*CRY**CRY* marines are overpowered!! *cry* *cry* <!--quoteo(post=1983948:date=Sep 27 2012, 03:33 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Sep 27 2012, 03:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983948"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Requiring 4 hits to kill an armor 3 jetpack, still no focus upgrade and the recent adren nerf... I can't even take this thread serious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://t.qkme.me/3ovyms.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1983833:date=Sep 27 2012, 02:21 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 27 2012, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can kill any lifeform on foot... so the combat is already even in that regard... the gameplay should be even WITHOUT jetpacks. When you get jetpacks, however, the shift goes to marines who now hold a more powerful tech... its the aliens job to counter it. You guys seriously amaze me.
Allowing marines to have jetpack tech should be a near death sentence to aliens unless they already have substantial map control and tech... or they pull some very well coordinated surprise attack and the marines mess up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I had to stop here, it sounds like you are advocated for a 10 pres "I win" upgrade. Please consider your posts more carefully, if this really is what you meant to say then let me just stop you there and say you are wrong.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited September 2012
What tickles me is that i suggested to keep the fuel level as is, but increase the time required before refueling begins (0.7 sec) so you dont refuel so much by the time u hit the ground, increasing the skill requirement when using it slightly without nerfing mobility. (you have to use JP only when u really need it)
I suggested this months ago because people flipped out on the forums about lowering the fuel amount .. but now that its happened most are like "yea, it works.." Ha.
If jetp[acks were to be reverted or buffed then their cost needs to be addressed. As for now, they provide a cheap (pres terms) but incredibly powerful mobility boost, it allows you to both move across the map very easily, take little notice of skulks and onos and chase down gorges. Which for 10 pres is incredible. Combine it with a shotgun (for 10 invested and 20 reusable pres) and you're a nightmare for any alien lifeform, even upto 50 and 75 res to deal with. Infact I tend to just not go near shotgunners as a fade or lerk since if he can aim its a death sentence
You have to remember aliens have no hard counter, no acid rocket, gorge spit is heavily nerfed compared to NS1, no webs and lerk is not the annoyance it once was. If you want NS1 jetpacks back remember to give aliens NS1 style jetpack counters. I for one prefer it this way tbh, but if you want to go back to web acid rocket spam then be my guest
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1984262:date=Sep 28 2012, 09:26 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 28 2012, 09:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984262"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What tickles me is that i suggested to keep the fuel level as is, but increase the time required before refueling begins (0.7 sec) so you dont refuel so much by the time u hit the ground, increasing the skill requirement when using it slightly without nerfing mobility. (you have to use JP only when u really need it)
I suggested this months ago because people flipped out on the forums about lowering the fuel amount .. but now that its happened most are like "yea, it works.." Ha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know they significantly nerfed mobility, right?
Comments
A jetpack can make you more or less invincible to skulks, a big problem for lerks, extremely annoying to fades, and invincible to oni when there's high ground. Additionally it makes you move at an average speed higher than a skulk's in open space. All of that for 10 p/res?
It should cost more like 20-25 so jp+shotty is at least comparable to the cost of a fade.
JP has a higher skill ceiling, maybe you need more practice.
<!--quoteo(post=1983868:date=Sep 27 2012, 03:49 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 27 2012, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983868"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem is that they nerfed acceleration AND fuel consumption at the same time. They way overshot it and didn't double check it since nobody complained.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe nobody is complaining because their is nothing wrong w/ it.
Funny that since they changed the JP, you're the only person who has complained about it....
If anything, I think JPs need to have a cost nerf a bit. It's kind of ridiculous how cheap they are, and upgrades will only make that worse after 1.0.
lets do everything like in NS1 ... wheyyyy :D
no ... now for real ... JPs are too good in my opinion, cause u need like 5 skulkbites (?), or 4 fadeswipes (?) to kill an armor lvl 3 marine (correct me if im wrong ...
and if the marine got a jetpack there is no ###### way to kill him, before the hive is killed ...
and i dont start talking about 5v5 situations in cargo (on veil) ...
depending on the hiveroom, the jetpacks are even more overpowered ...
i just hope, they get them balanced somehow ... maybe without bringing focus back in, but yeah ... at least balanced
Jetpacks work best in groups. Besides the suicide jetpacker with a grenade launcher, its always better to stick together and take turns on the ground. Tap to dodge attacks rather than float forever.
Cargo and generator hive would like a word with you o.O
and warehouse to some extent.
This I feel was msotly because of how NS2 maps are designed with much more room for JPs to maneuver and dodge the Aliens. Plus the difficultly of landing hits with Fades and Skulks. In NS1 they were quite expensive, but with PRes you can equip your team quite efficiently. Also in NS1 the maps had more conflicts in corridors where you could hem in the JPs and kill them, even without their hardcounter Gorge Web. Plus NS1 had Focus so all you had to do was soften them (Lerk Gas!) and land 1 hit. Without it in NS2 you have to land considerably more hits and when they're low they could run away and heal up.
Oh and A3 + JPs is quite ridiculous indeed. (Not to mention that lategame commanders can easily medspam)
They were extremely over powered originally because as already said in this thread there was no way to counter them. This change simply balances things out, it does not make the jet pack over nerfed or useless by any means.
You just need to watch your fuel more carefully and not fly around aimlessly for 10 minutes.
On certain maps they feel overpowered... on other maps they feel underpowered. Its all situational.
I think they should be faster, compared to ns1 it is like riding a cow.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4i8gwxpAB1r7i36c.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
jetpacks are too overpowered, not nerfed.
if you need your whole fuel for one room, you did something wrong.
i can fly through the whole map without touching the ground and kill the hive with my melee weapon.
i hate this complaining and crying, <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>why always people who play marines cry soooooooooo much?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
marines are overpowered, go buy a jetpack for only 10 resources and tell your team spread out to hives, you will faster win the game then you can say "*CRY**CRY* marines are overpowered!! *cry* *cry*
<!--quoteo(post=1983948:date=Sep 27 2012, 03:33 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Sep 27 2012, 03:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983948"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Requiring 4 hits to kill an armor 3 jetpack, still no focus upgrade and the recent adren nerf... I can't even take this thread serious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://t.qkme.me/3ovyms.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Allowing marines to have jetpack tech should be a near death sentence to aliens unless they already have substantial map control and tech... or they pull some very well coordinated surprise attack and the marines mess up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had to stop here, it sounds like you are advocated for a 10 pres "I win" upgrade. Please consider your posts more carefully, if this really is what you meant to say then let me just stop you there and say you are wrong.
I suggested this months ago because people flipped out on the forums about lowering the fuel amount .. but now that its happened most are like "yea, it works.."
Ha.
And I prefer aliens.
Edit: Flying cow that is.
You have to remember aliens have no hard counter, no acid rocket, gorge spit is heavily nerfed compared to NS1, no webs and lerk is not the annoyance it once was. If you want NS1 jetpacks back remember to give aliens NS1 style jetpack counters. I for one prefer it this way tbh, but if you want to go back to web acid rocket spam then be my guest
Medpack can keep up with spores, and armour level is irrelevant since it does direct damage to hp...
I suggested this months ago because people flipped out on the forums about lowering the fuel amount .. but now that its happened most are like "yea, it works.."
Ha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know they significantly nerfed mobility, right?
"Ha."