<!--quoteo(post=1981102:date=Sep 21 2012, 09:07 AM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Sep 21 2012, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->vs a bad player bite nerf isnt noticable, vs a moderate one who has learned the power of jumping like a lunatic good luck. Especially once armour 2 is up and you need those extra bites in you're all but worthless as a skulk. Relegated to biting once or twice and jumping away after an 'ambush' on a solo marine. Really need to improve both the bite cone, the marine hitbox and skulk movement. As is Id rather go terrible lerk than stay as a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mmm true true, I hadn't played for a while before yesterday, and I'm not too bad as a marine, not that great either, but I got around to 30-1 kdr, I know it doesn't mean much and it was only a public server with everyone learning the new skulk bite, but I didn't worry about going Rambo because I was just slicing the skulks up to pieces, even when they got close to me I just pulled out my welder and finished them off with only a bite or no bites damage.
The thing I hate most about the skulk is him `sticking` to the marines, it's like the skulk is crawling all up and over the marines when you get close to them, I hate that :|
Love most of the patch guys, I've logged about 10 hours on 220 but..... This patch as a skulk is not fun and it's not just me saying it. <b><u>Reasons.</u></b> Skulk bite change Charlies reason for the change - Skulk dominance. But Charlie it's a base life form and should <b><u>always</u></b> be viable. please don't forget this.
Bite range nerf : While I don't mind this change. I also think it need tweaking. As most have said in previous post, The bite cone needed tweaking as well to make this a viable change. It's incredibly frustrating to seem too visually land hits (marine is in your teeth) but no hits register. It' seems the teeth on the side of the skulks mouth are not counted and the current skulk cross hair does nothing to indicate this.
Personally a re-think on the skulks cross hair coupled with an audio or visual indication of when a skulk's bite registers, would go a long way to help solving this problem. In particular the current little cross hair in my mouth going red is terrible indicator for a class that one plays for most of the game.
With the new bite changes the skulk scaling into the late game has also been affected. Fighting Armor upgraded marines. Fighting Jet-packers - Was already hard enough Fighting EXO's - Was already hard enough
Let alone comebacks from 1 hive i'm yet to see one.
Yeah I see that if the alien team doesn't have a good fade on their team or a skulk rush wins it, they will slowly lose control of the map and lose :| But anyway, still plenty of patches to come! :D
I think this was mentioned by a PT already, but level 3 weapon sound has already been fixed.
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
<!--quoteo(post=1981156:date=Sep 20 2012, 10:19 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 20 2012, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this was mentioned by a PT already, but level 3 weapon sound has already been fixed.
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I believe that the cone is more of a problem than the range, but it's being noticed now because the ranger nerf made the cone nerf more pronounced.
I have not played since alpha and almost forgot about NS2 lol. I came back today and have been playing the 220 build, so much better and polished it's insane! Good job UWE and keep up the good work :D. So far my main notices as a lot of others seems to have stated is the skulk nerf is way to much and something needs to be done. Biting at the same marine for 30 seconds(mostly hitting him) to kill him seems off. Also I do miss some of the abilities that were scrapped it seems, like the fades building damager ability(though maybe you need more hives for that?). I do like the change to left and right clicking for certain abilities instead of actually having to switch to an ability to use it however(loved how blink was switched to a key to use instead of scrolling with the mouse wheel). The performance is 2x better as well as when I last played which is why I quit back then. Now I can play with a steady FPS almost till the end(though performance still seems bad with a lot of players in a hive or base fighting and the buildings around). Overall it seems great, and really looking forward to launch :D.
<!--quoteo(post=1981156:date=Sep 21 2012, 01:19 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 21 2012, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep, totally agree. It looks much better from first person mode - no more long range biting.
<!--quoteo(post=1981156:date=Sep 21 2012, 01:19 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 21 2012, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary. --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Also agree. A little more bite width would also help improve the expected results based on the skulk mouth UI, making it feel much more intuitive. Balance is a whole other issue, but I think it's a good way forward to get the intuitive skulk gameplay in order before making balance changes.
As for general feedback... The main thing I'm noticing more often lately is sounds and animations are lagging behind what is actually happening. I'll often be shot/killed, then hear a firing sound and see the animation start. It's maybe in the order of 200-400ms. It could be that it has always been like this and I'm just starting to notice after playing so many hours of NS2, or perhaps it has become more pronounced recently. My ping is typically 30-40 whereas the average is probably around 70 and I'm not talking about situations where there are high 150+ ping players on the server. Playing on Endar's servers which are pretty rock solid 30 tickrate. I'd like to make a screen recording to check and time these issues myself but sadly I don't think my computer has enough grunt to do recording while playing.
<!--quoteo(post=1981011:date=Sep 20 2012, 01:40 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Sep 20 2012, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The changes to skulk bite range/cone not only upset the balance versus marines early game, they also make it a lot harder for skulks to take on jetpackers, even with leap. (Good luck landing a bite on a moving jp marine with the current bite cone and range) This means they become even worse lategame, even with leap. Heck, needing 4 bites versus A3 marines with the current skulk is the most frustrating experience ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> this!
Another thing I noticed. Sentries only cost 5 res? That means you can easily spam the map full of sentries. NO I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD CHANGE IT TO 15 OR 20 RES! Because every time something changes it's not with a minor adjustment, but it's changed drasticly. Sentries should cost 10 res instead of 5 imo. And now you can hold 2 upgrades even with 1 hive? I don't see the logic in that. I would rather say you can use 2 upgrades of the same kind (regen + cara) with 2 hives.
Have you even tried using sentries? The name sentry is misleading. They're anti-structure now, should give you an idea of how absolutely useless they are.
<!--quoteo(post=1981156:date=Sep 21 2012, 06:19 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 21 2012, 06:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this was mentioned by a PT already, but level 3 weapon sound has already been fixed.
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope the fixes have more to do with collisions or rather the lack of them, sliding off of enemies, going under them etc. , than making bite require no aim anymore. I hope you dont change the bite cone range or size before the underlying issues (collisions) are fixed, because finally the bite range isnt ridiculous anymore.
<!--quoteo(post=1981096:date=Sep 21 2012, 12:55 AM:name=dethovu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dethovu @ Sep 21 2012, 12:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It escapes me why people continue to compare Spark to not only entirely different games, but other game engines that have matured over years and years with testing by millions of people and that were developed by a team 100 times the size of UWE.
If you're playing on a older PC, you're going to get frame drops. You shouldn't be expecting 60 frames a second on a computer that is X number of years older than the game it is trying to play.
I have NS2 running on an old 5600+ x2 dual core with a 8800GT and it runs just fine and has no more slow down than would be expected of such a cpu intensive, close quarters FPS game like NS2 - not to mention that is running a gaming engine that was written by one person. One. Person.
Why are you playing NS2, then? Go play with your hats on your gaming engine that is TEN YEARS OLD that you're trying to compare NS2 to. I wouldn't expect anything less than smooth gameplay from TF2, even on a calculator. Also, TF2 wasn't free for the first FOUR YEARS.
NS2 has come a long way with performance, and it will only get better. But, with that said:
Upgrade your PC. It's what PC gamers have been doing for faster framerates since...forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeaaah, my pc is new, and i have to upgrade the pc.. just for 1 GAME... jezus, some people's logic here is so dumb. You gotta know that its not my job to find and get the good performance, its the dev's job. Else, if i have to work too, i'll just ask for a comission. Of course this is non-sense, but thats the point you are making. Im not the one getting paid here.
Tf2 wanst free for 4 years... WHO CARES? it is now, and it is constantly getting updated with new stuff. Just so you know, by this time, i would trade Ns2 for some few tf2 items if i could.... but thats all due to the bad performance.. i wouldnt be so mad if i knew this game hadn't future and wasn't well made.... heck i loved ns1, and i want an NS where the bites that hit actually do any damage and the crosshairs of my guns dont get stuck when im shooting.
About the comparisons you are making, it doesnt matter if it was only written by a person or 10.000, the only thing that matters is that the final product runs smooth and well. IDGAF if the house im living in was built by cows, i only want it to be useful and have good quality.
And btw, im not even playing NS2, im always in my "hat-game" that is by now 100 times better than this. I hope in the end it wont.
<!--quoteo(post=1981156:date=Sep 21 2012, 05:19 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 21 2012, 05:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Miss that one does not expect can frustrate a lto.
<!--quoteo(post=1981298:date=Sep 21 2012, 06:14 AM:name=LUSITANER)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Sep 21 2012, 06:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my pc is new, and i have to upgrade the pc.. its not my job to find and get the good performance, its the dev's job. Im not the one getting paid here.
About the comparisons you are making, it doesnt matter if it was only written by a person or 10.000, the only thing that matters is that the final product runs smooth and well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If your PC was anywhere near "new" you wouldnt have to upgrade it. Ands HOW MUCH exactly did you pay, bigmouth? 20 Dollars?
This is a disease that I hate the most on NS2 forums. NS2 is not a mod anymore, it's a game.
<!--quoteo(post=1981096:date=Sep 21 2012, 02:55 AM:name=dethovu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dethovu @ Sep 21 2012, 02:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It escapes me why people continue to compare Spark to not only entirely different games,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because when I wonder what game I should start I have TF2, NS2 and Borderlands 2 available. Guess what, since Borderlands 2 was released I don't think about NS2 for 10 seconds per day other than watching forums.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but other game engines that have matured over years and years<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why should I care?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->with testing by millions of people<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why should I care?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and that were developed by a team 100 times the size of UWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why should I care? Cost is the same.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're playing on a older PC,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, my PC isn't old according to any of the newer games. Last time I checked, Half-Life 2, Cryis 1 and 2 and many more games work just fine for me AND have nicer graphics.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you're going to get frame drops.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not getting frame drops. I get low FPS. That FPS is caused by writing code without time budgets in mind. "Premature optimization" mentality and so on.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You shouldn't be expecting 60 frames a second on a computer that is X number of years older than the game it is trying to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I should because NS2 devs said so in their 2008 minimum requirements. I have computer equal or more powerful to their recommended requirements stated today and what? Nothing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->not to mention that is running a gaming engine that was written by one person. One. Person.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, my FPS reminds me that all the time. But jokes aside, renderer is quite fast it's the game code that is absurdly slow.
220 is a lot of fun, despite the skulk problems. I agree hitting marines as skulk is a bit ridiculous right now - having a munchy feedback sound or something nicely visual going on when you hit a marine, along with a slight tweak of the bite cone... that would go a long way towards making skulk play much more satisfying.
All in all it's shaping up nicely. I've logged more hours with NS2 in the past 2 weeks than in the years before that ;)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why are you playing NS2, then?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> He bought it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Go play with your hats on your gaming engine that is TEN YEARS OLD that you're trying to compare NS2 to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're a brown noser and he's a customer. You can say things like that but it's not a mod anymore and given thousands of people like him UWE will fail (but they'll fix it anyway so I'm not worried). It's just that 1000s more people will come with expectations like <b>his</b> and not yours and that's only thing that matters. Let's compare NS2 to TF2 - TF2 has bounced lighting which results in a lot more natural look of the terrain. NS2 has 0 bounce, direct lighting and ugly rock meshes/textures see ns2_summit. NS2 has 2 color palette - teal and orange see: <a href="http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html" target="_blank">http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/...lease-stop.html</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Upgrade your PC. It's what PC gamers have been doing for faster framerates since...forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I don't know if you got that but CPUs stopped getting faster. Average speed 16 core CPU + NS2 will result in low framerate.
<!--quoteo(post=1981156:date=Sep 21 2012, 06:19 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 21 2012, 06:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this was mentioned by a PT already, but level 3 weapon sound has already been fixed.
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, at first the change seems impossible since you're used to the old range and timing, but the new range has much more pleasing kinaesthetics with you actually connecting to the marine. I'm currently timing and hitting my bites much better than before, if I miss its usually because the cone is soo small than not being close enough.
The player and skulk collisions might need some tweaking as well, it feels very slippery. Perhaps make collisions between enemies a bit more sticky?
I think it feels sticky because you're sliding one capsule over a sphere. You could either change collision shapes or add friction to movement if collided with another capsule.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 has 2 color palette - teal and orange<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Technically, it's way more than two colors ;).
The dominant colors are based around blue (I'd say blue more than teil) and orange, though, yes. Cyan, red (err, emergency lighting?), yellow, white, black, green, are in in the palette too (oh I've seen that pink skulk model...that's to humor those other people that ask about it, right?) -- but if you want good design, you should stick with certain ranges for the majority of an image, shouldn't you? It makes great sense too in the case of this game since we have two teams that fight over map control -- a complimentary coloring schema works great. Blue and orange fits for two main reasons for NS2 in my opinion:
-The marine and alien design have been based off these colors or slight variations of (you have to pick SOME color obviously and should make the other side the compliment or at least easily distinguishable...color clashing isn't really a bad thing) -For us colorblind individuals, the blue and orange spectrums are A LOT easier to see than certain shades of green or red (most common colorblindness). It's also very easy on the eyes, I think.
Just because movies are starting to push this coloring to extremes sometimes doesn't mean NS2 is doing it because it's a trend.
I would not have minded a manly purple and sporty yellow. Though, I can't imagine making everything purpled themed unless it was alien based. Purple tentacle whips, eh!?. Yellow doesn't really work for marines either, I don't think. I guess some complimentary combinations can be shifted on one end and still look good though. Purple and green. Blue and yellow.
It would be neat to have some color adjustment options in game for those who are really picky. Video card driver software can do that per application, though.
<!--quoteo(post=1981156:date=Sep 20 2012, 11:19 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 20 2012, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this was mentioned by a PT already, but level 3 weapon sound has already been fixed.
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean a <b>low</b> ping server? High ping kinda distorts combat a bit. >.>
<!--quoteo(post=1981306:date=Sep 21 2012, 11:39 AM:name=Melancor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melancor @ Sep 21 2012, 11:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981306"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If your PC was anywhere near "new" you wouldnt have to upgrade it. Ands HOW MUCH exactly did you pay, bigmouth? 20 Dollars?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Talking without knowing is so typical of a dumb person... i paid around 950€. And I DONT HAVE TO UPGRADE IT GODDAMN. how many times i need to say i play here big games with no problems?
<!--quoteo(post=1981096:date=Sep 20 2012, 05:55 PM:name=dethovu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dethovu @ Sep 20 2012, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It escapes me why people continue to compare Spark to not only entirely different games, but other game engines that have matured over years and years with testing by millions of people and that were developed by a team 100 times the size of UWE.
If you're playing on a older PC, you're going to get frame drops. You shouldn't be expecting 60 frames a second on a computer that is X number of years older than the game it is trying to play.
I have NS2 running on an old 5600+ x2 dual core with a 8800GT and it runs just fine and has no more slow down than would be expected of such a cpu intensive, close quarters FPS game like NS2 - not to mention that is running a gaming engine that was written by one person. One. Person.
Why are you playing NS2, then? Go play with your hats on your gaming engine that is TEN YEARS OLD that you're trying to compare NS2 to. I wouldn't expect anything less than smooth gameplay from TF2, even on a calculator. Also, TF2 wasn't free for the first FOUR YEARS.
NS2 has come a long way with performance, and it will only get better. But, with that said:
Upgrade your PC. It's what PC gamers have been doing for faster framerates since...forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.why dont you stop being a fanboy ? this game is not demanding at all
2.you are full of ###### post a video of you runing maxout this game 1080p 24 player servers i want to see your 100 fps
3. this system e7400 with 2gb of ram and a 8800 1vram gt has the same performance as my machine something is really wrong here
<!--quoteo(post=1981417:date=Sep 21 2012, 04:34 PM:name=RedDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedDragon @ Sep 21 2012, 04:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You mean a <b>low</b> ping server? High ping kinda distorts combat a bit. >.><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No. We were hearing that players with high ping were having a much harder time landing bites with the new skulk bite adjustments, so we tested under those circumstances.
Can we stop the side discussion about people's PC specs / fanboyism / other games please?
It is totally pointless to the discussion at hand. If you have posted once about your specs and how this build is not performing as adequately as you would like, please leave it there. It's not like the devs *don't* read this, so arguing is only bogging down a thread from being more useful.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited September 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1981298:date=Sep 21 2012, 04:14 AM:name=LUSITANER)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Sep 21 2012, 04:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeaaah, my pc is new, and i have to upgrade the pc.. just for 1 GAME... jezus, some people's logic here is so dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> *Remembers Hexen, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, Doom 3, Crysis, Metro 2033, and Now NS2*...
Yup.. i definitely have upgraded my rigs everytime based on the game i wanted to play at the time. This is how things were before console porting to PC became widespread. (i.e. no need to upgrade because of games designed around hardware specs from 2004) So i can see how this notion can be a new concept for some, and potentially a bit jarring.
<b>Disclaimer:</b> Obviously not saying this game is fully optimized. But theres a grand canyon of difference between the source engine that has been refined for over a decade by hundreds of developers and can run on integrated graphics and an unreleased engine built by very few people. Saying this does not make someone a "brown noser" or a "fanboy" .. its just common knowledge.
<!--quoteo(post=1981399:date=Sep 21 2012, 06:08 PM:name=Josh86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh86 @ Sep 21 2012, 06:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Technically, it's way more than two colors ;). ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, but direct lighting that NS2 has highlights how few colors there are. Maps are usually tinted a bit blue because first NS2 textures were that way and/or maps had slightly blue lights. I'd rather have colorblind option in video settings than have to watch something that uses only 2 colors. Gorge, hive, harvester are orange as ######. Marines have their a bit blue a bit dark items/structures. The only thing that is even remotely green is infestation and there's only 1 shade. There are no blends between these colors.
To repeat: red - lights out white, slightly blue - lights on bright orange - aliens 1 shade of green - infestation
NS1 was far less boring. It had walls that somewhere between white, pink and yellow. It had diffuse lighting that didn't attack your eyes. It didn't hide having very few colors behind r_atmospherics.
I hope that 1.0 or 1.0+ will have Crysis 2-inspired lighting, at least 1 bounce.
Also, everything looks like made from plastic. Thing that should be matte are shiny. ns2_tram walls/floor often looks like cut out of plastic.
Even Borderlands managed to get some colors in. First they added them to DLCs and now Borderlands 2 is a lot more than just shade of brown and yellow.
Comments
Mmm true true, I hadn't played for a while before yesterday, and I'm not too bad as a marine, not that great either, but I got around to 30-1 kdr, I know it doesn't mean much and it was only a public server with everyone learning the new skulk bite, but I didn't worry about going Rambo because I was just slicing the skulks up to pieces, even when they got close to me I just pulled out my welder and finished them off with only a bite or no bites damage.
The thing I hate most about the skulk is him `sticking` to the marines, it's like the skulk is crawling all up and over the marines when you get close to them, I hate that :|
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=121243&st=0#entry1981111" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ind...=0#entry1981111</a>
<b><u>Reasons.</u></b>
Skulk bite change
Charlies reason for the change - Skulk dominance.
But Charlie it's a base life form and should <b><u>always</u></b> be viable. please don't forget this.
Bite range nerf : While I don't mind this change. I also think it need tweaking. As most have said in previous post, The bite cone needed tweaking as well to make this a viable change.
It's incredibly frustrating to seem too visually land hits (marine is in your teeth) but no hits register.
It' seems the teeth on the side of the skulks mouth are not counted and the current skulk cross hair does nothing to indicate this.
Personally a re-think on the skulks cross hair coupled with an audio or visual indication of when a skulk's bite registers, would go a long way to help solving this problem.
In particular the current little cross hair in my mouth going red is terrible indicator for a class that one plays for most of the game.
With the new bite changes the skulk scaling into the late game has also been affected.
Fighting Armor upgraded marines.
Fighting Jet-packers - Was already hard enough
Fighting EXO's - Was already hard enough
Let alone comebacks from 1 hive i'm yet to see one.
But anyway, still plenty of patches to come! :D
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I believe that the cone is more of a problem than the range, but it's being noticed now because the ranger nerf made the cone nerf more pronounced.
But thanks for the update :).
Yep, totally agree. It looks much better from first person mode - no more long range biting.
<!--quoteo(post=1981156:date=Sep 21 2012, 01:19 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 21 2012, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also agree. A little more bite width would also help improve the expected results based on the skulk mouth UI, making it feel much more intuitive. Balance is a whole other issue, but I think it's a good way forward to get the intuitive skulk gameplay in order before making balance changes.
As for general feedback... The main thing I'm noticing more often lately is sounds and animations are lagging behind what is actually happening. I'll often be shot/killed, then hear a firing sound and see the animation start. It's maybe in the order of 200-400ms. It could be that it has always been like this and I'm just starting to notice after playing so many hours of NS2, or perhaps it has become more pronounced recently. My ping is typically 30-40 whereas the average is probably around 70 and I'm not talking about situations where there are high 150+ ping players on the server. Playing on Endar's servers which are pretty rock solid 30 tickrate. I'd like to make a screen recording to check and time these issues myself but sadly I don't think my computer has enough grunt to do recording while playing.
this!
Just a suggestion
greetz
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope the fixes have more to do with collisions or rather the lack of them, sliding off of enemies, going under them etc. , than making bite require no aim anymore. I hope you dont change the bite cone range or size before the underlying issues (collisions) are fixed, because finally the bite range isnt ridiculous anymore.
If you're playing on a older PC, you're going to get frame drops. You shouldn't be expecting 60 frames a second on a computer that is X number of years older than the game it is trying to play.
I have NS2 running on an old 5600+ x2 dual core with a 8800GT and it runs just fine and has no more slow down than would be expected of such a cpu intensive, close quarters FPS game like NS2 - not to mention that is running a gaming engine that was written by one person. One. Person.
Why are you playing NS2, then? Go play with your hats on your gaming engine that is TEN YEARS OLD that you're trying to compare NS2 to. I wouldn't expect anything less than smooth gameplay from TF2, even on a calculator. Also, TF2 wasn't free for the first FOUR YEARS.
NS2 has come a long way with performance, and it will only get better. But, with that said:
Upgrade your PC. It's what PC gamers have been doing for faster framerates since...forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeaaah, my pc is new, and i have to upgrade the pc.. just for 1 GAME... jezus, some people's logic here is so dumb. You gotta know that its not my job to find and get the good performance, its the dev's job. Else, if i have to work too, i'll just ask for a comission. Of course this is non-sense, but thats the point you are making. Im not the one getting paid here.
Tf2 wanst free for 4 years... WHO CARES? it is now, and it is constantly getting updated with new stuff. Just so you know, by this time, i would trade Ns2 for some few tf2 items if i could.... but thats all due to the bad performance.. i wouldnt be so mad if i knew this game hadn't future and wasn't well made.... heck i loved ns1, and i want an NS where the bites that hit actually do any damage and the crosshairs of my guns dont get stuck when im shooting.
About the comparisons you are making, it doesnt matter if it was only written by a person or 10.000, the only thing that matters is that the final product runs smooth and well. IDGAF if the house im living in was built by cows, i only want it to be useful and have good quality.
And btw, im not even playing NS2, im always in my "hat-game" that is by now 100 times better than this. I hope in the end it wont.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Miss that one does not expect can frustrate a lto.
About the comparisons you are making, it doesnt matter if it was only written by a person or 10.000, the only thing that matters is that the final product runs smooth and well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If your PC was anywhere near "new" you wouldnt have to upgrade it. Ands HOW MUCH exactly did you pay, bigmouth? 20 Dollars?
<!--quoteo(post=1981096:date=Sep 21 2012, 02:55 AM:name=dethovu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dethovu @ Sep 21 2012, 02:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It escapes me why people continue to compare Spark to not only entirely different games,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because when I wonder what game I should start I have TF2, NS2 and Borderlands 2 available. Guess what, since Borderlands 2 was released I don't think about NS2 for 10 seconds per day other than watching forums.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but other game engines that have matured over years and years<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why should I care?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->with testing by millions of people<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why should I care?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and that were developed by a team 100 times the size of UWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why should I care? Cost is the same.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're playing on a older PC,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, my PC isn't old according to any of the newer games. Last time I checked, Half-Life 2, Cryis 1 and 2 and many more games work just fine for me AND have nicer graphics.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you're going to get frame drops.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not getting frame drops. I get low FPS. That FPS is caused by writing code without time budgets in mind. "Premature optimization" mentality and so on.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You shouldn't be expecting 60 frames a second on a computer that is X number of years older than the game it is trying to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I should because NS2 devs said so in their 2008 minimum requirements. I have computer equal or more powerful to their recommended requirements stated today and what? Nothing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->not to mention that is running a gaming engine that was written by one person. One. Person.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, my FPS reminds me that all the time. But jokes aside, renderer is quite fast it's the game code that is absurdly slow.
All in all it's shaping up nicely. I've logged more hours with NS2 in the past 2 weeks than in the years before that ;)
He bought it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Go play with your hats on your gaming engine that is TEN YEARS OLD that you're trying to compare NS2 to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're a brown noser and he's a customer. You can say things like that but it's not a mod anymore and given thousands of people like him UWE will fail (but they'll fix it anyway so I'm not worried). It's just that 1000s more people will come with expectations like <b>his</b> and not yours and that's only thing that matters.
Let's compare NS2 to TF2 - TF2 has bounced lighting which results in a lot more natural look of the terrain. NS2 has 0 bounce, direct lighting and ugly rock meshes/textures see ns2_summit. NS2 has 2 color palette - teal and orange see:
<a href="http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html" target="_blank">http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/...lease-stop.html</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Upgrade your PC. It's what PC gamers have been doing for faster framerates since...forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I don't know if you got that but CPUs stopped getting faster. Average speed 16 core CPU + NS2 will result in low framerate.
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, at first the change seems impossible since you're used to the old range and timing, but the new range has much more pleasing kinaesthetics with you actually connecting to the marine.
I'm currently timing and hitting my bites much better than before, if I miss its usually because the cone is soo small than not being close enough.
The player and skulk collisions might need some tweaking as well, it feels very slippery.
Perhaps make collisions between enemies a bit more sticky?
Technically, it's way more than two colors ;).
The dominant colors are based around blue (I'd say blue more than teil) and orange, though, yes. Cyan, red (err, emergency lighting?), yellow, white, black, green, are in in the palette too (oh I've seen that pink skulk model...that's to humor those other people that ask about it, right?) -- but if you want good design, you should stick with certain ranges for the majority of an image, shouldn't you? It makes great sense too in the case of this game since we have two teams that fight over map control -- a complimentary coloring schema works great. Blue and orange fits for two main reasons for NS2 in my opinion:
-The marine and alien design have been based off these colors or slight variations of (you have to pick SOME color obviously and should make the other side the compliment or at least easily distinguishable...color clashing isn't really a bad thing)
-For us colorblind individuals, the blue and orange spectrums are A LOT easier to see than certain shades of green or red (most common colorblindness). It's also very easy on the eyes, I think.
Just because movies are starting to push this coloring to extremes sometimes doesn't mean NS2 is doing it because it's a trend.
I would not have minded a manly purple and sporty yellow. Though, I can't imagine making everything purpled themed unless it was alien based. Purple tentacle whips, eh!?. Yellow doesn't really work for marines either, I don't think. I guess some complimentary combinations can be shifted on one end and still look good though. Purple and green. Blue and yellow.
It would be neat to have some color adjustment options in game for those who are really picky. Video card driver software can do that per application, though.
Regarding the skulk bite changes, we spent some serious time playing and recording 1 on 1 skulk v marine combat on a high ping server to try test the new changes, today. The bite range actually felt really good, it just requires a less spammy approach to biting, and more timing (and I was raging just as hard as the rest of you earlier today in a game about the skulk bite). However there were some interesting things we noticed on closer inspection that had a lot more to do with the width of the bite cone then the range, and some other issues that we are still investigating. Even so, it wasn't leading to a lot of misses, just a miss every once in a while. Anyway, we'll continue to look into it more and make appropriate changes as necessary.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean a <b>low</b> ping server? High ping kinda distorts combat a bit. >.>
Talking without knowing is so typical of a dumb person... i paid around 950€. And I DONT HAVE TO UPGRADE IT GODDAMN. how many times i need to say i play here big games with no problems?
If you're playing on a older PC, you're going to get frame drops. You shouldn't be expecting 60 frames a second on a computer that is X number of years older than the game it is trying to play.
I have NS2 running on an old 5600+ x2 dual core with a 8800GT and it runs just fine and has no more slow down than would be expected of such a cpu intensive, close quarters FPS game like NS2 - not to mention that is running a gaming engine that was written by one person. One. Person.
Why are you playing NS2, then? Go play with your hats on your gaming engine that is TEN YEARS OLD that you're trying to compare NS2 to. I wouldn't expect anything less than smooth gameplay from TF2, even on a calculator. Also, TF2 wasn't free for the first FOUR YEARS.
NS2 has come a long way with performance, and it will only get better. But, with that said:
Upgrade your PC. It's what PC gamers have been doing for faster framerates since...forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.why dont you stop being a fanboy ? this game is not demanding at all
2.you are full of ###### post a video of you runing maxout this game 1080p 24 player servers i want to see your 100 fps
3. this system e7400 with 2gb of ram and a 8800 1vram gt has the same performance as my machine something is really wrong here
No. We were hearing that players with high ping were having a much harder time landing bites with the new skulk bite adjustments, so we tested under those circumstances.
--Cory
It is totally pointless to the discussion at hand. If you have posted once about your specs and how this build is not performing as adequately as you would like, please leave it there. It's not like the devs *don't* read this, so arguing is only bogging down a thread from being more useful.
*Remembers Hexen, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, Doom 3, Crysis, Metro 2033, and Now NS2*...
Yup.. i definitely have upgraded my rigs everytime based on the game i wanted to play at the time.
This is how things were before console porting to PC became widespread. (i.e. no need to upgrade because of games designed around hardware specs from 2004)
So i can see how this notion can be a new concept for some, and potentially a bit jarring.
<b>Disclaimer:</b> Obviously not saying this game is fully optimized. But theres a grand canyon of difference between the source engine that has been refined for over a decade by hundreds of developers and can run on integrated graphics and an unreleased engine built by very few people. Saying this does not make someone a "brown noser" or a "fanboy" .. its just common knowledge.
Edit: and Tailor ^ is correct.
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but direct lighting that NS2 has highlights how few colors there are. Maps are usually tinted a bit blue because first NS2 textures were that way and/or maps had slightly blue lights. I'd rather have colorblind option in video settings than have to watch something that uses only 2 colors. Gorge, hive, harvester are orange as ######. Marines have their a bit blue a bit dark items/structures. The only thing that is even remotely green is infestation and there's only 1 shade. There are no blends between these colors.
To repeat:
red - lights out
white, slightly blue - lights on
bright orange - aliens
1 shade of green - infestation
NS1 was far less boring. It had walls that somewhere between white, pink and yellow. It had diffuse lighting that didn't attack your eyes. It didn't hide having very few colors behind r_atmospherics.
I hope that 1.0 or 1.0+ will have Crysis 2-inspired lighting, at least 1 bounce.
Also, everything looks like made from plastic. Thing that should be matte are shiny. ns2_tram walls/floor often looks like cut out of plastic.
Even Borderlands managed to get some colors in. First they added them to DLCs and now Borderlands 2 is a lot more than just shade of brown and yellow.