A good chunk of the problem is the one price fits all model for upgrades (which currently is all free). I think its a bit unreasonable to expect balance for upgrades that 5 completely different gameplay styles (lifeforms) will all use without any varying incentives or costs. Whats good for one lifeform might be totally worthless for another. Abilities could simply be much better in a certain lifeform...and we see this. Boosting an ability for one lifeform, breaks it for another. Is there ever a good reason to not take adren as gorge or fade? Feint death is great on fades...so so for the others. I think there should be varying prices for abilities per lifeform. Its the easiest variable to change and still keep the ability intact. Instead of playing balancing whackamole for all the lifeforms and never getting it right, simply alter the cost for a lifeform that is showing a problem.
I like the idea of making feint death a carapace upgrade, and adding in focus for the 3rd shade upgrade. Change the name to 'reanimation' or something so it sounds more <b>crag</b>-y. <b>Mechanically change is so that players have 10 seconds to decide to pop out of their dead corpse as a small babbler, and they can then go evolve somewhere to their former lifeform at zero costs.</b> The small size will give them the speed and evasion to escape, but they are still very fragile. Doesn't hurt that it fits in line with the <b><u>crag </u></b>theme .
<!--quoteo(post=1975450:date=Sep 11 2012, 04:11 AM:name=RockyMarc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RockyMarc @ Sep 11 2012, 04:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Same point at researching lerk spikes or fade blink or any alien individual skill, maybe it should be not a skill to upgrade but once the comm has researched it a permanent skill (like spikes, etc) for all gorges. Gorges should help out in battle as much as possible I think, it's only 10 res which can be the difference of a win or a lose when you're with a bunch of skulks in a rush healing like mad. I'd never go it alone that's for sure. The faint for the Gorge might help when he's trying to heal structures and an exo suit is plastering the base, the Gorge gets cut down in a milisecond :| Anyway my thoughts :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But then a shade hive would be incompleat and need a new 3rd tire upgrade for the rest, which would could be a long and daunting task for the devs to find a replacement that works and to have it well balanced to the rest of the game and to make sure te community like that idea. Also In many hours of playing, a gorge with feint it really pointless anyway as soon as it is back visible again the exo will see it straigh away expecialy with the exo showing targets on the HUD, this would make it anoyying for the george to keep having to die a second time all the time.
<!--quoteo(post=1975342:date=Sep 10 2012, 04:22 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Sep 10 2012, 04:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that Fades basically get out 100% of the time is only part of the problem. The other 4 classes already never use Feign Death, because they can't get out alive. WHY would they use it if it was nerfed? Having an upgrade that only benefits one class is silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats what u wish :> . I killed two fades yesterday after they used feign death. U just need to know that he is upgraded on this, then u have a good chance to kill him. And i saw a lot of gorges/lerks surviving a fight with feign death and skulks which kills a marine. Feign death is most usefull in groups, because marines will mostly try to shoot the next alien nearby, so u have a good chance to escape or kill a marine.
<!--quoteo(post=1975721:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:21 PM:name=Mr.Greedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.Greedy @ Sep 11 2012, 05:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats what u wish :> . I killed two fades yesterday after they used feign death. U just need to know that he is upgraded on this, then u have a good chance to kill him. And i saw a lot of gorges/lerks surviving a fight with feign death and skulks which kills a marine. Feign death is most usefull in groups, because marines will mostly try to shoot the next alien nearby, so u have a good chance to escape or kill a marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THATS NOTHING I PLAY COUNTER STRIKE PROFFESIONALLY AND AM A PRETTY BIG DEAL ON THE INTERNET
Registered here because this is kinda big deal for me at least. And couple first pages was just "remove it" and "+1".
When i play as marine and come across skilled fade, it sure does make you feel powerless, especially when rest of alien team is backing him up. But, that is sort of the spirit, this is team based game right? And it don't mean i don't have fun while i die a lot. I do. It's just part of the game. If you are down to last base without any rt, i usually after a while just gg and hit f4.
But when you encounter fade with one or two skilled marines, that particular fade is in big trouble. I have killed literally tens of fades who thought feign death will save them. No, it won't, if you know to expect it. Shot or two with my good old shotty, bam, one fade less.
I love +30min games with even teams, and just picking lonely marines out who dare go out alone. Also like to move in gascloud to do some havoc. But you really need to be very careful about situations you go in. And still, you get down a lot. If marines are wake and there is like long hallway, you are dead despite feign.
I'm just trying to say, please don't nerf because loud minority want something. I'm pretty sure people who are ok with this particular skill, don't make much noise. Well-thought balance fixes like one with jetpack are fine, but total nerfing is just stupid.
I don't see feign of death too much of a problem. It's easy to see when the enemy has it and it's pretty easy to predict which way he will go after he's released. Single shotgun shot nails down even blinking fades.
But I agree it seems quite powerful for bilebomb gorges. Not that they will ever get it until the game is 3 hives in and aliens should be winning anyways.
Make alien come out of camo/feign with zero energy. and make it so marines see the "+5" score notification (as this is the easiest way to tell that someone is feign'd, you don't see a score pop-up)
Problem with feint death is that is allows you to take the dying amount of damage and still live, and gives you time to get in a decent position to escape... with multiple aliens around actually finishing of the alien that feint is much harder.
IMO the ability should just be removed, basically is a crutch to allow an alien to make 2 mistakes and still survive, instead of only 1.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1975290:date=Sep 11 2012, 12:29 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Sep 11 2012, 12:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975290"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All this facebook +1:ing is really nice but no wait it's just dumb and fruitless - if you remove feign shade hive needs a 3rd ability. Try to come up with one, even if it's dumb. Can't be dumber than +1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's easy. Add the thing aliens need to scale their damage in lategame. The upgrade "focus".
<!--quoteo(post=1975646:date=Sep 11 2012, 07:03 AM:name=Laosh'Ra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laosh'Ra @ Sep 11 2012, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1ing won't help that much unless you provide any new arguments/ideas. the player base is huge and the forums cannot represent all of it. also, it reminds me of this (no offense, but it's similar to the middle): <img src="http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5304810_700b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1975803:date=Sep 11 2012, 10:32 AM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Sep 11 2012, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why does shade need a 3rd... shifts 3rd is hypermutation (which is never used tbh) and crag doesnt have a 3rd..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with dragons conclusion...bring back redemption so we have 3 crag abilities! That is what you were saying, right Dragon?
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
I think I have developed a simple idea of an upgrade that would act similar to feign death but would solve some of the complaints here. Let's call it bacterium shield, just for the sake of having a name.
So the the alien's health drops below a certain level, say 20%, and the bacterium immediately redirects all of said alien's energy to a bacterium shield (necessary lore background). Now, energy regeneration is reduced by some reasonable amount, and damage done by marine weapons is very significantly reduced to this alien (I am thinking by something like 80%). The alien is unable to use attacks that have the purpose of damaging the marines (for the Hive Mind knows of the alien's peril and would like to preserve and restore it to full health, and thereby has removed the ability of this alien to waste its precious life) but may still use abilities such as the gorge's slide, the skulk's leap, the lerk's flight, the fade's blink/shadowstep, and the onos' charge. Because the alien is in such peril, there would be visual indicators, such as distorted vision and sound for the alien owing to the massive amount of stress the alien and hive mind are both undergoing, and bacterium activity clearly visible and audible for marines (thereby serving to redirect marine attention to their struggling alien foe). Once the alien has healed above the threshold the upgrade no longer takes effect and there is a balanced delay until the bacterium shield can be reactivated.
<b>Tl;dr:</b> The alien takes damage and is approaching death, when the bacterium shield activates, significantly reducing damage done to the alien and allowing for hasty retreat from battle. The ability for these aliens to attack is removed and the alien will experience visual and auditory distortion to portray that the bacterium shield has been activated. Marines are somehow alerted of the alien's impending doom.
The issues solved by such an upgrade capability are great. Such an upgrade requires a level of skill to use. The alien must know to escape, as the marines will undoubtedly work to kill such an alien, and the alien must do so efficiently since their energy recuperation is greatly diminished. The 'surprise' of feign death is removed; something that was a bother for new players, the unexpected return of a fallen foe, and useless in experienced matches as feign death can be detected by such players, is replaced by an upgrade with utility in all settings.
Now while this may seem like a good improvement to the game there are potential shortcomings. First, why should such an upgrade be available to aliens through the Shade hive? Why not through the Crag hive? This is a reasonable objection and I will answer it. The Crag is supposed to allow aliens to live longer, to regenerate faster, to be harder to take down. While this upgrade certainly has some of these characteristics, it is also deceptive. The alien has essentially gained quite a bit of health, with some disadvantages. The marine does not know this. The alien will engage in battle like normal but may stay longer. When the marine is approaching victory, the Hive Mind steps in to protect the alien in a calculating, cunning way. The marines will certainly direct firepower in the direction of the shielded alien, and it may go down; but while the marines are focused on this alien, will not other aliens that are not so fervently displayed to the marine come in the midst of the distraction? Will not the blood-curdling screams of the aliens serve to distract, confuse, and deceive the marines? With such characteristics, this upgrade seems a good fit for the Shade.
What other issues may there be with such an upgrade? Share the issues and perhaps this could be refined into a great addition to the game!
<!--quoteo(post=1975297:date=Sep 11 2012, 12:40 AM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Sep 11 2012, 12:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975297"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Strange idea I guess, but..
What if they combined Feint and Camouflage - in addition to starting with 0 energy/energy regen penalty after feigning? This would encourage aliens to try and sneak away while cloaked and not lolblink/leap instantly after feinting for a "free death" but instead try to be sneaky about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
didn't read past page 2... but this is an extremely good idea, only problem I see is riflers will keep shooting a short moment after death and hit the cloaked alien. short dmg reduction/immunity?
another extremely better solution than what we have now is what Mestaritonttu writes where the alien just "plays dead" - the marines can waste bullets/time on corpses or risk them being feinting.
<!--quoteo(post=1975277:date=Sep 11 2012, 12:19 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Sep 11 2012, 12:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the concept, it's just not working too well in practice. Just make it so that:
A: Doesn't show on marine minimap or score whether the alien is dead or feigning. B: All alien corpses stay for 12 seconds before disintegrating. C: Feigning aliens are invulnerable for 12 seconds or until they click Mouse 1. D: No invisible movement sillyness, the dead alien IS the alien.
I feel that would work splendidly. A marine could get paranoid by checking the corpse behind him for signs of movement, if he wanted to be sure he would have to waste that 12 seconds, if not he takes the risk. Alien would have a chance to either pounce back immediately or choose the opportune moment, until the 12 seconds are done.
You could balance it back and forth by adjusting the health you're given after feigning. Aka do feigned skulks die from 1 shot or 5.
Another thing that needs a fix with shade hive is camoflage. For the love of steve, camouflaged aliens that move need to be ENTIRELY invisible, partially invisible just doesn't cut it, at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1976569:date=Sep 12 2012, 03:55 PM:name=JuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi @ Sep 12 2012, 03:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ironhorse there is no time to mess with stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1976569:date=Sep 12 2012, 03:55 PM:name=JuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi @ Sep 12 2012, 03:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and bring in something else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wha?.. but you just said...?
It really is an easy fix guys.. like.. *opens notepad and changes two digits* That's far less messing around than bringing something else in last minute before 1.0 (tho i still want focus on crag hives)
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
I guess i dont get the argument of WHY its a turd? i use it frequently as long as i'm not up against any high skilled players (who can notice it, hence why it needs fixing) with decent success..
its very effective... is it just the frustration marines get from shooting something in a chaotic moment and having it escape? idk i just adapted to it and watch that area just in case. Raises the anxiety level for me and i personally love it.. ?
Someone please enlighten me whats wrong with it, if it were to be fixed?
I don't play the game anymore, and I've never seen feign death in action. All my experience comes from feign death in TFC and the dead ringer in TF2. Now, with that in mind, watch me reason about why it's a bad mechanic for NS2 (and no amount of turd-polishing and forum filibustering will save it):
<ul><li>Aliens are fundamentally about movement mechanics. To enter combat, to escape combat, to scout, to flank, to counterattack, ...</li><li>Feign death replaces many highly player-driven activities with one gimmicky result: instead of planning engagements, reacting to how they progress, moving in/out of combat and accepting risks, you feign death and pray for the opponent to not realize (or the game to be lame and prevent that in some way)</li><li>Ultimately, it's a mechanic that exists specifically to replace complicated player activities with an end result dictated by a simple game rule ("you have x unlocked so y happens even if you just got up out of the chair and went to the bathroom")</li></ul>
No matter how it's implemented, that's what it's for. If feign death is "working correctly", it's cheapening the experience of everyone involved in it. If it's not working correctly, it's even worse than that!
Mechanics like this are often "balanced" in the eyes of players by introducing harsh penalties or situational setup conditions (TFC - feign death is useless because the game is about speed, TF2 - dead ringer is inconsistent because it relies on ammo boxes and results in balance tweaks and map design changes being made over and over and over...). The reality is that it's never balanced and it's never right for a fast-paced multiplayer fps/rts hybrid game. It would be fine in something like Dystopia that's meant to resemble Thief/DeusEx/etc, but in something like NS2 it's another example of novelty at the cost of quality.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Holy crap.. This is the internet explorer we don't see anymore! Thanks for the well thought out response.
So basically the argument is that it removes some of the need for the alien to act on it's designed advantages like mobility and evasion.. lessening that risk and need for proper planning etc.. Right? Then wth does carapace do? If the player slowing was removed as requested you wouldn't have to plan as well or play as well.. The same argument exists here? Same with regen.. A gimmick removes a certain amount of player interaction and player responsibilities like gorge or crags.
In fact Isn't this in general what upgrades do? An armor 3 marine with a shotgun isn't as concerned about that skulk and thus plays differently. So this can't be it??
I think what you said after those bullets is the real phatic response : it cheapens the experience because of expectations.
In that note I think it could be summed up with: people don't like being tricked. (who honestly doesn't get frustrated when a spy stabs your heavy in the back right when you were feeling good about yourself?) to which I say: thats a good point, but thats the purpose of the shade.
I'm just tired of even 1 kill not counting.. you're dead, then you're dead. No second chances.
And in addition, on every lifeform it's pretty much useless except Fade. And with Fade it encourages really bad play in publics. (also seen in some scrims)
Comments
I like the idea of making feint death a carapace upgrade, and adding in focus for the 3rd shade upgrade. Change the name to 'reanimation' or something so it sounds more <b>crag</b>-y. <b>Mechanically change is so that players have 10 seconds to decide to pop out of their dead corpse as a small babbler, and they can then go evolve somewhere to their former lifeform at zero costs.</b> The small size will give them the speed and evasion to escape, but they are still very fragile. Doesn't hurt that it fits in line with the <b><u>crag </u></b>theme .
edit: meant crag not carapace -_-
The faint for the Gorge might help when he's trying to heal structures and an exo suit is plastering the base, the Gorge gets cut down in a milisecond :| Anyway my thoughts :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But then a shade hive would be incompleat and need a new 3rd tire upgrade for the rest, which would could be a long and daunting task for the devs to find a replacement that works and to have it well balanced to the rest of the game and to make sure te community like that idea. Also In many hours of playing, a gorge with feint it really pointless anyway as soon as it is back visible again the exo will see it straigh away expecialy with the exo showing targets on the HUD, this would make it anoyying for the george to keep having to die a second time all the time.
Having an upgrade that only benefits one class is silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats what u wish :> . I killed two fades yesterday after they used feign death. U just need to know that he is upgraded on this, then u have a good chance to kill him. And i saw a lot of gorges/lerks surviving a fight with feign death and skulks which kills a marine. Feign death is most usefull in groups, because marines will mostly try to shoot the next alien nearby, so u have a good chance to escape or kill a marine.
THATS NOTHING I PLAY COUNTER STRIKE PROFFESIONALLY AND AM A PRETTY BIG DEAL ON THE INTERNET
When i play as marine and come across skilled fade, it sure does make you feel powerless, especially when rest of alien team is backing him up. But, that is sort of the spirit, this is team based game right? And it don't mean i don't have fun while i die a lot. I do. It's just part of the game. If you are down to last base without any rt, i usually after a while just gg and hit f4.
But when you encounter fade with one or two skilled marines, that particular fade is in big trouble. I have killed literally tens of fades who thought feign death will save them. No, it won't, if you know to expect it. Shot or two with my good old shotty, bam, one fade less.
I love +30min games with even teams, and just picking lonely marines out who dare go out alone. Also like to move in gascloud to do some havoc. But you really need to be very careful about situations you go in. And still, you get down a lot. If marines are wake and there is like long hallway, you are dead despite feign.
I'm just trying to say, please don't nerf because loud minority want something. I'm pretty sure people who are ok with this particular skill, don't make much noise. Well-thought balance fixes like one with jetpack are fine, but total nerfing is just stupid.
But I agree it seems quite powerful for bilebomb gorges. Not that they will ever get it until the game is 3 hives in and aliens should be winning anyways.
All I would suggest is:
Make alien come out of camo/feign with zero energy.
and make it so marines see the "+5" score notification (as this is the easiest way to tell that someone is feign'd, you don't see a score pop-up)
That or just remove it. lol
A return of redemption would be awesome too.
IMO the ability should just be removed, basically is a crutch to allow an alien to make 2 mistakes and still survive, instead of only 1.
That's easy. Add the thing aliens need to scale their damage in lategame.
The upgrade "focus".
also, it reminds me of this (no offense, but it's similar to the middle):
<img src="http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5304810_700b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-10 for spam
but yea, posting images is a habbit i should get rid of...
I agree with dragons conclusion...bring back redemption so we have 3 crag abilities! That is what you were saying, right Dragon?
But a redemption feint death fade would probably make me uninstall NS2 so yea.
So the the alien's health drops below a certain level, say 20%, and the bacterium immediately redirects all of said alien's energy to a bacterium shield (necessary lore background). Now, energy regeneration is reduced by some reasonable amount, and damage done by marine weapons is very significantly reduced to this alien (I am thinking by something like 80%). The alien is unable to use attacks that have the purpose of damaging the marines (for the Hive Mind knows of the alien's peril and would like to preserve and restore it to full health, and thereby has removed the ability of this alien to waste its precious life) but may still use abilities such as the gorge's slide, the skulk's leap, the lerk's flight, the fade's blink/shadowstep, and the onos' charge. Because the alien is in such peril, there would be visual indicators, such as distorted vision and sound for the alien owing to the massive amount of stress the alien and hive mind are both undergoing, and bacterium activity clearly visible and audible for marines (thereby serving to redirect marine attention to their struggling alien foe). Once the alien has healed above the threshold the upgrade no longer takes effect and there is a balanced delay until the bacterium shield can be reactivated.
<b>Tl;dr:</b> The alien takes damage and is approaching death, when the bacterium shield activates, significantly reducing damage done to the alien and allowing for hasty retreat from battle. The ability for these aliens to attack is removed and the alien will experience visual and auditory distortion to portray that the bacterium shield has been activated. Marines are somehow alerted of the alien's impending doom.
The issues solved by such an upgrade capability are great. Such an upgrade requires a level of skill to use. The alien must know to escape, as the marines will undoubtedly work to kill such an alien, and the alien must do so efficiently since their energy recuperation is greatly diminished. The 'surprise' of feign death is removed; something that was a bother for new players, the unexpected return of a fallen foe, and useless in experienced matches as feign death can be detected by such players, is replaced by an upgrade with utility in all settings.
Now while this may seem like a good improvement to the game there are potential shortcomings. First, why should such an upgrade be available to aliens through the Shade hive? Why not through the Crag hive? This is a reasonable objection and I will answer it. The Crag is supposed to allow aliens to live longer, to regenerate faster, to be harder to take down. While this upgrade certainly has some of these characteristics, it is also deceptive. The alien has essentially gained quite a bit of health, with some disadvantages. The marine does not know this. The alien will engage in battle like normal but may stay longer. When the marine is approaching victory, the Hive Mind steps in to protect the alien in a calculating, cunning way. The marines will certainly direct firepower in the direction of the shielded alien, and it may go down; but while the marines are focused on this alien, will not other aliens that are not so fervently displayed to the marine come in the midst of the distraction? Will not the blood-curdling screams of the aliens serve to distract, confuse, and deceive the marines? With such characteristics, this upgrade seems a good fit for the Shade.
What other issues may there be with such an upgrade? Share the issues and perhaps this could be refined into a great addition to the game!
That way I can go Focus Fade and we can get marine tears coming in by the gallons.
Fades feed on marine tears. The more you cry about fades, the stronger they become.
What if they combined Feint and Camouflage - in addition to starting with 0 energy/energy regen penalty after feigning? This would encourage aliens to try and sneak away while cloaked and not lolblink/leap instantly after feinting for a "free death" but instead try to be sneaky about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
didn't read past page 2...
but this is an extremely good idea, only problem I see is riflers will keep shooting a short moment after death and hit the cloaked alien.
short dmg reduction/immunity?
another extremely better solution than what we have now is what Mestaritonttu writes where the alien just "plays dead" - the marines can waste bullets/time on corpses or risk them being feinting.
<!--quoteo(post=1975277:date=Sep 11 2012, 12:19 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Sep 11 2012, 12:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the concept, it's just not working too well in practice. Just make it so that:
A: Doesn't show on marine minimap or score whether the alien is dead or feigning.
B: All alien corpses stay for 12 seconds before disintegrating.
C: Feigning aliens are invulnerable for 12 seconds or until they click Mouse 1.
D: No invisible movement sillyness, the dead alien IS the alien.
I feel that would work splendidly. A marine could get paranoid by checking the corpse behind him for signs of movement, if he wanted to be sure he would have to waste that 12 seconds, if not he takes the risk. Alien would have a chance to either pounce back immediately or choose the opportune moment, until the 12 seconds are done.
You could balance it back and forth by adjusting the health you're given after feigning. Aka do feigned skulks die from 1 shot or 5.
Another thing that needs a fix with shade hive is camoflage. For the love of steve, camouflaged aliens that move need to be ENTIRELY invisible, partially invisible just doesn't cut it, at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remove it.
Pages here on how to do just that..
Good enough.
<!--quoteo(post=1976569:date=Sep 12 2012, 03:55 PM:name=JuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi @ Sep 12 2012, 03:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and bring in something else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wha?.. but you just said...?
It really is an easy fix guys.. like.. *opens notepad and changes two digits*
That's far less messing around than bringing something else in last minute before 1.0 (tho i still want focus on crag hives)
i use it frequently as long as i'm not up against any high skilled players (who can notice it, hence why it needs fixing)
with decent success..
its very effective... is it just the frustration marines get from shooting something in a chaotic moment and having it escape? idk i just adapted to it and watch that area just in case. Raises the anxiety level for me and i personally love it.. ?
Someone please enlighten me whats wrong with it, if it were to be fixed?
Now, with that in mind, watch me reason about why it's a bad mechanic for NS2 (and no amount of turd-polishing and forum filibustering will save it):
<ul><li>Aliens are fundamentally about movement mechanics. To enter combat, to escape combat, to scout, to flank, to counterattack, ...</li><li>Feign death replaces many highly player-driven activities with one gimmicky result: instead of planning engagements, reacting to how they progress, moving in/out of combat and accepting risks, you feign death and pray for the opponent to not realize (or the game to be lame and prevent that in some way)</li><li>Ultimately, it's a mechanic that exists specifically to replace complicated player activities with an end result dictated by a simple game rule ("you have x unlocked so y happens even if you just got up out of the chair and went to the bathroom")</li></ul>
No matter how it's implemented, that's what it's for. If feign death is "working correctly", it's cheapening the experience of everyone involved in it. If it's not working correctly, it's even worse than that!
Mechanics like this are often "balanced" in the eyes of players by introducing harsh penalties or situational setup conditions (TFC - feign death is useless because the game is about speed, TF2 - dead ringer is inconsistent because it relies on ammo boxes and results in balance tweaks and map design changes being made over and over and over...). The reality is that it's never balanced and it's never right for a fast-paced multiplayer fps/rts hybrid game. It would be fine in something like Dystopia that's meant to resemble Thief/DeusEx/etc, but in something like NS2 it's another example of novelty at the cost of quality.
Thanks for the well thought out response.
So basically the argument is that it removes some of the need for the alien to act on it's designed advantages like mobility and evasion.. lessening that risk and need for proper planning etc.. Right?
Then wth does carapace do? If the player slowing was removed as requested you wouldn't have to plan as well or play as well.. The same argument exists here? Same with regen.. A gimmick removes a certain amount of player interaction and player responsibilities like gorge or crags.
In fact Isn't this in general what upgrades do? An armor 3 marine with a shotgun isn't as concerned about that skulk and thus plays differently.
So this can't be it??
I think what you said after those bullets is the real phatic response : it cheapens the experience because of expectations.
In that note I think it could be summed up with: people don't like being tricked. (who honestly doesn't get frustrated when a spy stabs your heavy in the back right when you were feeling good about yourself?)
to which I say: thats a good point, but thats the purpose of the shade.
And in addition, on every lifeform it's pretty much useless except Fade. And with Fade it encourages really bad play in publics. (also seen in some scrims)