Lerk Poison Bite is possibly redundant. Now that it doesn't get removed by medpacks, and only lasts 6 seconds, dealing about 36(?) damage in total, what purpose does it serve? I have not figured any strategy to avoid/benefit a poisoned marine, so how does it add to gameplay? Imo, should just remove it and slightly increase Lerk bite rate.
A cool new feature against Lerks: Marine rifle butt should ground Lerks for 2 seconds. Now, unless a Marine has a shotgun (in which case you can't rifle butt) it's completely safe to fly up to a Marine and bite him.
<!--quoteo(post=1954887:date=Jul 29 2012, 02:12 PM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jul 29 2012, 02:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerk Poison Bite is possibly redundant. Now that it doesn't get removed by medpacks, and only lasts 6 seconds, dealing about 36(?) damage in total, what purpose does it serve? I have not figured any strategy to avoid/benefit a poisoned marine, so how does it add to gameplay? Imo, should just remove it and slightly increase Lerk bite rate.
A cool new feature against Lerks: Marine rifle butt should ground Lerks for 2 seconds. Now, unless a Marine has a shotgun (in which case you can't rifle butt) it's completely safe to fly up to a Marine and bite him.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk Poison Bite has always been useless and annoying for both sides.
Big fat no on the rifle butt. If anything, it should have a 5 second cool down on it.
Find this build annoying to play due to the amount of welding you have to do.
PLEASE AT LEAST MAKE ADVANCED ARMORIES HEAL MARINE ARMOR.
Also, at the moment good fades can dominate the marines, too easy to kill, run, heal, repeat. I would like to see fades weaker but also cost less res, like a fade balanced for 40 res cost.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1954896:date=Jul 29 2012, 08:36 PM:name=SlowLefty)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SlowLefty @ Jul 29 2012, 08:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954896"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, at the moment good fades can dominate the marines, too easy to kill, run, heal, repeat. I would like to see fades weaker but also cost less res, like a fade balanced for 40 res cost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why on earth would you make the fades cheaper? I agree that they are a little too powerful at the moment, but that doesn't mean we need more of them on the field, or earlier. I think it would be alot better to make them a bit more visible during blink, that would help immensely with tracking them during blink. I wouldn't want to nerf fades in terms of HP, as they are in a pretty good spot at the moment in that regard, imo.
Other than that, I would like to either see shadowstep work in vertical directions. Or make blink a hive 1 ability, and shadowstep hive 2. That way fades can actually combat jetpacks on one hive. Other lifeforms, not so much. But that's fine, and how it should be.
<!--quoteo(post=1954887:date=Jul 30 2012, 04:12 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jul 30 2012, 04:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerk Poison Bite is possibly redundant. Now that it doesn't get removed by medpacks, and only lasts 6 seconds, dealing about 36(?) damage in total, what purpose does it serve? I have not figured any strategy to avoid/benefit a poisoned marine, so how does it add to gameplay? Imo, should just remove it and slightly increase Lerk bite rate.
A cool new feature against Lerks: Marine rifle butt should ground Lerks for 2 seconds. Now, unless a Marine has a shotgun (in which case you can't rifle butt) it's completely safe to fly up to a Marine and bite him.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you mean redundant from the lerk point of view or the marine point of view?
Though i still hate poison dot as a concept, i like its current implementation with capped damage. Its pretty balanced in combination with the way awesomer lerk movement. Generally 3 bites to kill on a0 and 4 on a1 (Requires a reasonable ammount of in/out harrassing). The only problem it has is that it scales horrendously with armour due to it being light damage (Requires <b>probably</b> an unreasonable ammount of harassing/time). Reduced lerk spike spread might help cover this i dno.
If you're talking about lerk power vs rifles i have to agree this is an issue but only because of the way alien upgrades are being applied. Cara being so high is partly a necessary result of shotguns doing 170 normal damage. However at 75, lerk is still almost godmode against rifles. Movement is in a good place so i think the cara bonus needs looking at. Rifle butt disables as a solution could potentially be very OP (binary situations), hard to balance, and really annoying - ground lerk is dead lerk. The speed bonus from cele on lerks is probably a bit too much as well. 2 hive cele/cara lerks are pretty crazy.
Also, on the topic of cara, the gap from 25 to 75 armour (60% increase in hp and no longer one shottable) makes cara too powerful relative to the other upgrades. Atleast with skulk silence, cele, adren, regen and cara are reasonably equal depending on skill level.
Good update, the game is getting better and better!
Still, performance seems to be the main issue right now to me. I have a superfast gamerrig (i5@4,2 Ghz, 3GB 7950, 8GB Ram) and still I get massive drops in the framerate. There will be many people with PCs that have only half the power my machine has and its probably unplayable for them. This game will die too soon after release if you cant improve the performance :/
I have an i5-2500k @ 4.5GHz and I start the game out at around 80FPS and by the end of a long one I drop to 55-60FPS. Still not too bad but it shouldn't happen.
I was about to buy this game so fast after finding out I can play this game on my rig(at least I hope so). I guess I'll wait for a hit or miss on release week. A demo would be nice now since the game has many many mixed opinions ^_^ a demo to make sure the game is playable. Thanks
<!--quoteo(post=1955282:date=Jul 30 2012, 11:51 PM:name=CobraCommander)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CobraCommander @ Jul 30 2012, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955282"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was about to buy this game so fast after finding out I can play this game on my rig(at least I hope so). I guess I'll wait for a hit or miss on release week. A demo would be nice now since the game has many many mixed opinions ^_^ a demo to make sure the game is playable. Thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->Well it's on steam so a free weekend on occasion after release might do the trick. Though this performance at least isn't supposed to represent what it'll be whenever they release. It might be the worst flu I've ever had talking, but I've lost some faith in the previous performance promises ever being met (not that old insanely low requirements list from the 2000's, I'd expect a cure for all forms of cancer sooner.). <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I dunno if you guys have already done this, but there is a part (0:30) in the video that shows one of the aliens switching vision modes or the video simply cuts to another clip idk, if it is a switching than I think it looks kinda of too artificial, automatic. To make it more organic how about doing something like this <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane</a> ? I'm thinking in a horizontal animation real quick, from the extremes to the center of the screen. Idk, would look cool.
Everybody is saying the armory armor heal wasn't in NS1 and because of that it would fit (regardless now if the timing for it is good or bad).
But to be honest, if it was like that in NS1, then I don't understand it. I go to an armory to regenerate. So it simply sounds logic for me that this building is regenerating my armor. If it does not I don't think this system makes sense. Why would I use a welder to repair the armor I wear? That makes absolutely no sense in the heat of battle. It would make more sense to have an armor and I need to get a new one (just saying, don't ever implement the need for buying a new armor - lolz :D).
On the other side aliens are regenerating their armor (what does seem to be their shell for me) in the near of that alien regeneration things. What makes imo less sense, since they just get breathed on by yellow-green smoke...
<!--quoteo(post=1955511:date=Aug 1 2012, 10:39 AM:name=Saio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saio @ Aug 1 2012, 10:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everybody is saying the armory armor heal wasn't in NS1 and because of that it would fit (regardless now if the timing for it is good or bad).
But to be honest, if it was like that in NS1, then I don't understand it. I go to an armory to regenerate. So it simply sounds logic for me that this building is regenerating my armor. If it does not I don't think this system makes sense. Why would I use a welder to repair the armor I wear? That makes absolutely no sense in the heat of battle. It would make more sense to have an armor and I need to get a new one (just saying, don't ever implement the need for buying a new armor - lolz :D).
On the other side aliens are regenerating their armor (what does seem to be their shell for me) in the near of that alien regeneration things. What makes imo less sense, since they just get breathed on by yellow-green smoke...
Know what I mean?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The aliens heal by bacteria. The yellow smoke has a healing effect and lays itself over the wounded parts of the skin of the alien and the green smoke is for clotting the yellow bacteria like your blood on wounds. But much better. It can get as hard as human bone and more. Evolved over centuries it even has the power to multiply its volume and create much bigger lifeforms by shifting organs randomly in the body of the alien.
The marine armory works with nanites. This are multi-functional mini robots. But even in an armory, you can't have all types of them. Some are capable of creating shotguns from raw resources, others can heal human wounds. But because of compatibility problems with armor regenerating nanites and health regenerating nanites, they can't be in the same building. But this is no problem, because nanites that can produce a welder out of resources are compatible with other weapon generating nanites and are possible together in the armory.
. . .
Srsly... never argue with ingame logic. I can explain everything if I need to. But the real reason such changes are in, is to either make the game more fun or more balanced. So if you argue, that it is less fun to have the marines play closer together with more teamplay, than this may be subjective but ok. But ingame logic is never a useful argument.
First off I give the NS2 team a big pat on the back. Thumbs up for some great creativity.
Ultimately, I do believe that the modability of this game will allow for any flavor of gameplay people want. But that said, it should be considered that this is A NEW GAME, and should be treated as such. It's not just a clone of NS1. This is NS2, and if someone wants a point for point clone of NS1, then they can mod it that way.
<b>Out the box, most importantly for the sake of the game's success: IT HAS TO BE FUN.</b> Difficulty/complexity can either make it fun or frustrating for different people.
Some options that should be considered about the armory: 1) Don't worry too much about legacy game play. Is the game really better without the armory restoring armor? Does it make sense for everyone to weld each other all the time (making people work together more) or does it really just add an extra unwelcome level of complexity to the game? 2) Compromise, make armor restoration an upgrade (resource expense) on the armory. That way it's easy for noob level servers to enable that if the commander recognizes that his team isn't smart about welders, etc... By making it an armory upgrade/tech then the amount of resources required to get that upgrade is an easily moddable value. Servers that don't like it, put the number really high, and servers that like it, leave it at some low number.
My personal opinion, is I think since (on the field) med packs only restore health, and welders only restore armor, why can't armories restore both? If you come all the way back to the armory to get fixed up, it really doesn't make logical sense that the armory can't do that. You can also seriously shift the expense of repairing armor at the armory by making armor repair slow. That means that armory hugging has a cost of not having the marine active on the field. This then gives an incentive for a commander to NOT enable armor repair (if it's an option) because he knows it will make marines waste too much time there.
I like them. I like where things are going. I feel uncertain about requiring a welder to 're-build' them since it didn't take a welder to build them in the first place. It makes sense to me that a damaged one needs re-welding. But you might as well let the power node be destroyed and resocketed somehow. Maybe you can allow it to be resocketed which costs as much as a welder to drop? Just as an option.. :P Again, I just feel uncertain about it.
I would like to see fade shift nerfed again, it was nice when a flamethrower was a real threat but now that there shift is adrenalin free flames don't do much to help the situation.
I just played a few rounds, on both sides. Pure random public servers, no skills, just the basic pub. Haven't played for 3-4 months and never been good at it.
Performance: there is less fps drops, but still some ugly ones. Had to bring down everything to low again to keep on fighting during heavy-loaded fighting area (smokes, gun shots, etc).
<div align='center'>...</div>
Balance:
As an Alien, it's all good until you go Fade. Then it becomes silly unbalanced. I haven't played NS2 for 3-4 months, I got 6 kills and haven't died once. I even played around with that vortex thingy (apparently you can spam it to keep enemies inside it).
The blink ability needs a cooldown after each use (to reduce the spam) and have something like increased vulnerability (start with 110% if you're too afraid of breaking the Fade) when going out of blink (to avoid blink spam in combat).
<div align='center'>...</div>
As a Marine, you're just here to provide some fun to the Aliens.
- With the fps drop whenever there's a big smoke and the insane speed (and no momentum to care about when making turns), Lerk are very rarely getting killed (when I played Lerk I haven't died once, I changed to Onos later and we won).
- With the blink spam and heavy armor+hp budget, any Fade paying attention to what's happening won't be killed, he'll just have to blink away and wait 5 seconds for the regen (what I did as a Fade, you die only when you stupidly bump into a pillar while blinking AND are out of energy AND are very low on HP).
I haven't tested the Feign Death, nor saw it happening (as no Fade got killed -at least while I was near- in the 4 maps I played), but it sounds so overpowered for a Fade in a pub, I'll have to test that next time.
The only two Aliens I found actually balanced are Skulk and Onos. The Onos is big and can't retreat that easily, so if he's going down, he's going down. Skulks don't have much HP and can killed rather rapidly, so the Marines still have a chance.
<div align='center'>...</div>
Regarding Marines themselves, with no healgun for players, you need the Commander to heal you for 2 resources (or going all the way back to the base). Armor ? Oh, you need to have a teammate spend 5 resources, then use it on you for 3 seconds - it's easier to die and respawn. => The armory should heal the armor up to a certain amount (40 ? advanced armory up to 60 ?), then you need a welder.
Meanwhile, all Aliens can just get Regen and wait at the corner for a full HP and Armor heal in no time (I know that for having used the regen like that with great efficiency as an Alien).
<div align='center'>...</div>
Regarding Cysts, it's a neat idea and system, but the Alien Commander can spam them everywhere so easily while Marines can do nothing against it (beside cutting one or two where they are currently standing), in my opinion to place a Cyst you should have a nearby mature Cyst (once you're 4/5-Cysts away from a Hive, closer than that you're free to place them as soon as a newborn is in range).
<div align='center'>...</div>
On the 4 maps I played, everyone was trying to play as Aliens in the Ready Room (6 people waiting to join Aliens while no one was joining Marines), and Marines weren't even trying too much, they were just trying to get the Jetpack to fly around and have fun, but they weren't trying to do anything beyond that (such as expanding their resources incomes or getting a second base). I think I'll wait for the next build to play the game again.
The most important thing to change is (imo) the Fade blink, it's making that Alien unit invincible, especially on pubs.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1956308:date=Aug 3 2012, 02:08 PM:name=Inspector Canardo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Inspector Canardo @ Aug 3 2012, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956308"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The most important thing to change is (imo) the Fade blink, it's making that Alien unit invincible, especially on pubs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fade actually has quick low health / armor though. Sure the fade will own the marines if they don't have lvl1+ armor or weapons, or at least shotguns. but fades die quick easily with one hit of
and if you don't have either shotguns, or level 1 armor / weaps by the time fades come out then its probably gg anyway.
Yep, by the time one reaches fade, Marines should have level 2 armor.
People need to go in groups, always. When I first played as marines, I'd go alone and get ripped up. Now I go with a team and as Schkorpio said, Shotguns deal great damage to the fade at point blank range and force the fade to run away. If you kill a fade, it's a +2 or more, I don't know. JPs would be a match against the fade but as always you need to learn to use your JP and know where to fight the fade. Best to lure it into an open area.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The most important thing to change is (imo) the Fade blink, it's making that Alien unit invincible, especially on pubs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can blink forever, there is little reason to use the momentum. Then you can always shadow step spam...
<!--quoteo(post=1956320:date=Aug 3 2012, 05:55 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Aug 3 2012, 05:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956320"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fade actually has quick low health / armor though. Sure the fade will own the marines if they don't have lvl1+ armor or weapons, or at least shotguns. <b>but fades die quick easily with one hit of </b>
and if you don't have either shotguns, or level 1 armor / weaps by the time fades come out then its probably gg anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Having shotgun at that moment is not a problem. However, saying one hit of shotgun is enough for a Fade is not true.
The Fade 300 HP 50 armor (90% of time upgraded to 100 armor), the shotgun deals 17 normal damage at point blank for each pellet (x10) (= 170 damage, 150 HP damages), which mean you have to land two <b>perfect </b>hits of shotgun at point blank, which takes at least 1.8 seconds.
In these ~2 seconds, the Fade can right-click at any time and survive. If he right-click for 2 seconds the regen will kicks in, allowing him to survive any second perfect shotgun hit.
Now, given the flying speed of the Blink ability, rather-low FPS framerate for most players and server latency, shotgun hits are never perfect, and you need more than 2 hits to kill, which give plenty of time (minimum of 2.7) for the Fade to right-click.
Also, by right-clicking away and waiting 5-6 seconds at the corner, the Fade will be back to full health (after landing one 81-damages swipes). What the Marines can do during that time ? Reload and move 5 meters ahead, without any way to heal themselves (no medigun).
The only way to keep the balance equal (after a "failed" attack of a Fade, who couldn't kill a single Marine and had to retreat early, landing only 1 hit) would be equipping a teammate with a welder (5 resources) AND having the Comm spend 2 more resources for 2 Medpacks. A 7 resources cost for the Marines for a failed Fade assault (with only one injured Marine), while the Fade can get the Regen evolution at no cost (once the Comm paid for it).
<!--quoteo(post=1956325:date=Aug 3 2012, 06:21 AM:name=Pooptronix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pooptronix @ Aug 3 2012, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Note about fade: Fade CAN be invincible in the right hands... That's how NS1 was... I was happy to see that... Real skill + Fade = ALIEN WIN<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You realized that with no skill + Fade = Alien win ? I and other players just did that (when I played as a Fade). And that real skill + shotgun = Fade still alive ?
If there was a cooldown and vulnerability for Blink, then it would requires skill to not be killed.
Whenever Alien's get Fades it's pretty much over for Marines. Yes there is the rare exception, but the majority of the the games I've seen during this beta build and 214, Fades are nearly unstoppable.
<!--quoteo(post=1956529:date=Aug 3 2012, 10:34 AM:name=Inspector Canardo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Inspector Canardo @ Aug 3 2012, 10:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956529"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having shotgun at that moment is not a problem. However, saying one hit of shotgun is enough for a Fade is not true.
The Fade 300 HP 50 armor (90% of time upgraded to 100 armor), the shotgun deals 17 normal damage at point blank for each pellet (x10) (= 170 damage, 150 HP damages), which mean you have to land two <b>perfect </b>hits of shotgun at point blank, which takes at least 1.8 seconds.
In these ~2 seconds, the Fade can right-click at any time and survive. If he right-click for 2 seconds the regen will kicks in, allowing him to survive any second perfect shotgun hit.
Now, given the flying speed of the Blink ability, rather-low FPS framerate for most players and server latency, shotgun hits are never perfect, and you need more than 2 hits to kill, which give plenty of time (minimum of 2.7) for the Fade to right-click.
Also, by right-clicking away and waiting 5-6 seconds at the corner, the Fade will be back to full health (after landing one 81-damages swipes). What the Marines can do during that time ? Reload and move 5 meters ahead, without any way to heal themselves (no medigun).
The only way to keep the balance equal (after a "failed" attack of a Fade, who couldn't kill a single Marine and had to retreat early, landing only 1 hit) would be equipping a teammate with a welder (5 resources) AND having the Comm spend 2 more resources for 2 Medpacks. A 7 resources cost for the Marines for a failed Fade assault (with only one injured Marine), while the Fade can get the Regen evolution at no cost (once the Comm paid for it).
You realized that with no skill + Fade = Alien win ? I and other players just did that (when I played as a Fade). And that real skill + shotgun = Fade still alive ?
If there was a cooldown and vulnerability for Blink, then it would requires skill to not be killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fade health was reduced to 250/50 in the last build I believe
Something has changed, game was stable with 212. Now with 215 I can play for 5 to 35 minutes then the game crashes to desktop. Would like to send that crash report, but its not possible, since I can only choose between a black screen (if I select NS2) or my normal desktop (if I e.g. CTRL-ALT-DEL me to task manager). I have to use ALT+F4 to quit the crash report to be able to close NS2.
Hope this gets better soon.
PS: There is no error message connected to the crash in the log.txt. Only sometimes: Error: Couldn't open file ''
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Might as well slap this gameplay commentary in here,or should I use <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113837" target="_blank">my old dusty thread</a>?
<!--quoteo(post=1956529:date=Aug 3 2012, 10:34 AM:name=Inspector Canardo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Inspector Canardo @ Aug 3 2012, 10:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956529"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You realized that with no skill + Fade = Alien win ? I and other players just did that (when I played as a Fade). And that real skill + shotgun = Fade still alive ?
If there was a cooldown and vulnerability for Blink, then it would requires skill to not be killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... The game definitely has it's flaws... IMO a skilled Marine vs a noob Fade, the marine should win. And vice versa (skilled Fade vs noob Marine). There's definitely some issues that need balancing. I'll leave it up to them...
Comments
A cool new feature against Lerks: Marine rifle butt should ground Lerks for 2 seconds. Now, unless a Marine has a shotgun (in which case you can't rifle butt) it's completely safe to fly up to a Marine and bite him.
Thoughts?
A cool new feature against Lerks: Marine rifle butt should ground Lerks for 2 seconds. Now, unless a Marine has a shotgun (in which case you can't rifle butt) it's completely safe to fly up to a Marine and bite him.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk Poison Bite has always been useless and annoying for both sides.
Big fat no on the rifle butt. If anything, it should have a 5 second cool down on it.
PLEASE AT LEAST MAKE ADVANCED ARMORIES HEAL MARINE ARMOR.
Also, at the moment good fades can dominate the marines, too easy to kill, run, heal, repeat.
I would like to see fades weaker but also cost less res, like a fade balanced for 40 res cost.
I would like to see fades weaker but also cost less res, like a fade balanced for 40 res cost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why on earth would you make the fades cheaper?
I agree that they are a little too powerful at the moment, but that doesn't mean we need more of them on the field, or earlier.
I think it would be alot better to make them a bit more visible during blink, that would help immensely with tracking them during blink.
I wouldn't want to nerf fades in terms of HP, as they are in a pretty good spot at the moment in that regard, imo.
Other than that, I would like to either see shadowstep work in vertical directions. Or make blink a hive 1 ability, and shadowstep hive 2.
That way fades can actually combat jetpacks on one hive. Other lifeforms, not so much. But that's fine, and how it should be.
A cool new feature against Lerks: Marine rifle butt should ground Lerks for 2 seconds. Now, unless a Marine has a shotgun (in which case you can't rifle butt) it's completely safe to fly up to a Marine and bite him.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you mean redundant from the lerk point of view or the marine point of view?
Though i still hate poison dot as a concept, i like its current implementation with capped damage. Its pretty balanced in combination with the way awesomer lerk movement. Generally 3 bites to kill on a0 and 4 on a1 (Requires a reasonable ammount of in/out harrassing). The only problem it has is that it scales horrendously with armour due to it being light damage (Requires <b>probably</b> an unreasonable ammount of harassing/time). Reduced lerk spike spread might help cover this i dno.
If you're talking about lerk power vs rifles i have to agree this is an issue but only because of the way alien upgrades are being applied. Cara being so high is partly a necessary result of shotguns doing 170 normal damage. However at 75, lerk is still almost godmode against rifles. Movement is in a good place so i think the cara bonus needs looking at. Rifle butt disables as a solution could potentially be very OP (binary situations), hard to balance, and really annoying - ground lerk is dead lerk. The speed bonus from cele on lerks is probably a bit too much as well. 2 hive cele/cara lerks are pretty crazy.
Also, on the topic of cara, the gap from 25 to 75 armour (60% increase in hp and no longer one shottable) makes cara too powerful relative to the other upgrades. Atleast with skulk silence, cele, adren, regen and cara are reasonably equal depending on skill level.
Still, performance seems to be the main issue right now to me. I have a superfast gamerrig (i5@4,2 Ghz, 3GB 7950, 8GB Ram) and still I get massive drops in the framerate. There will be many people with PCs that have only half the power my machine has and its probably unplayable for them. This game will die too soon after release if you cant improve the performance :/
<!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->Well it's on steam so a free weekend on occasion after release might do the trick. Though this performance at least isn't supposed to represent what it'll be whenever they release. It might be the worst flu I've ever had talking, but I've lost some faith in the previous performance promises ever being met (not that old insanely low requirements list from the 2000's, I'd expect a cure for all forms of cancer sooner.). <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
But to be honest, if it was like that in NS1, then I don't understand it. I go to an armory to regenerate. So it simply sounds logic for me that this building is regenerating my armor. If it does not I don't think this system makes sense. Why would I use a welder to repair the armor I wear? That makes absolutely no sense in the heat of battle. It would make more sense to have an armor and I need to get a new one (just saying, don't ever implement the need for buying a new armor - lolz :D).
On the other side aliens are regenerating their armor (what does seem to be their shell for me) in the near of that alien regeneration things. What makes imo less sense, since they just get breathed on by yellow-green smoke...
Know what I mean?
No :/
But to be honest, if it was like that in NS1, then I don't understand it. I go to an armory to regenerate. So it simply sounds logic for me that this building is regenerating my armor. If it does not I don't think this system makes sense. Why would I use a welder to repair the armor I wear? That makes absolutely no sense in the heat of battle. It would make more sense to have an armor and I need to get a new one (just saying, don't ever implement the need for buying a new armor - lolz :D).
On the other side aliens are regenerating their armor (what does seem to be their shell for me) in the near of that alien regeneration things. What makes imo less sense, since they just get breathed on by yellow-green smoke...
Know what I mean?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The aliens heal by bacteria. The yellow smoke has a healing effect and lays itself over the wounded parts of the skin of the alien and the green smoke is for clotting the yellow bacteria like your blood on wounds. But much better. It can get as hard as human bone and more. Evolved over centuries it even has the power to multiply its volume and create much bigger lifeforms by shifting organs randomly in the body of the alien.
The marine armory works with nanites. This are multi-functional mini robots. But even in an armory, you can't have all types of them. Some are capable of creating shotguns from raw resources, others can heal human wounds. But because of compatibility problems with armor regenerating nanites and health regenerating nanites, they can't be in the same building. But this is no problem, because nanites that can produce a welder out of resources are compatible with other weapon generating nanites and are possible together in the armory.
.
.
.
Srsly... never argue with ingame logic. I can explain everything if I need to. But the real reason such changes are in, is to either make the game more fun or more balanced. So if you argue, that it is less fun to have the marines play closer together with more teamplay, than this may be subjective but ok. But ingame logic is never a useful argument.
Ultimately, I do believe that the modability of this game will allow for any flavor of gameplay people want. But that said, it should be considered that this is A NEW GAME, and should be treated as such. It's not just a clone of NS1. This is NS2, and if someone wants a point for point clone of NS1, then they can mod it that way.
<b>Out the box, most importantly for the sake of the game's success: IT HAS TO BE FUN.</b>
Difficulty/complexity can either make it fun or frustrating for different people.
Some options that should be considered about the armory:
1) Don't worry too much about legacy game play. Is the game really better without the armory restoring armor? Does it make sense for everyone to weld each other all the time (making people work together more) or does it really just add an extra unwelcome level of complexity to the game?
2) Compromise, make armor restoration an upgrade (resource expense) on the armory. That way it's easy for noob level servers to enable that if the commander recognizes that his team isn't smart about welders, etc... By making it an armory upgrade/tech then the amount of resources required to get that upgrade is an easily moddable value. Servers that don't like it, put the number really high, and servers that like it, leave it at some low number.
My personal opinion, is I think since (on the field) med packs only restore health, and welders only restore armor, why can't armories restore both? If you come all the way back to the armory to get fixed up, it really doesn't make logical sense that the armory can't do that. You can also seriously shift the expense of repairing armor at the armory by making armor repair slow. That means that armory hugging has a cost of not having the marine active on the field. This then gives an incentive for a commander to NOT enable armor repair (if it's an option) because he knows it will make marines waste too much time there.
I like them. I like where things are going. I feel uncertain about requiring a welder to 're-build' them since it didn't take a welder to build them in the first place.
It makes sense to me that a damaged one needs re-welding. But you might as well let the power node be destroyed and resocketed somehow. Maybe you can allow it to be resocketed which costs as much as a welder to drop? Just as an option.. :P Again, I just feel uncertain about it.
Performance: there is less fps drops, but still some ugly ones. Had to bring down everything to low again to keep on fighting during heavy-loaded fighting area (smokes, gun shots, etc).
<div align='center'>...</div>
Balance:
As an Alien, it's all good until you go Fade. Then it becomes silly unbalanced. I haven't played NS2 for 3-4 months, I got 6 kills and haven't died once. I even played around with that vortex thingy (apparently you can spam it to keep enemies inside it).
The blink ability needs a cooldown after each use (to reduce the spam) and have something like increased vulnerability (start with 110% if you're too afraid of breaking the Fade) when going out of blink (to avoid blink spam in combat).
<div align='center'>...</div>
As a Marine, you're just here to provide some fun to the Aliens.
- With the fps drop whenever there's a big smoke and the insane speed (and no momentum to care about when making turns), Lerk are very rarely getting killed (when I played Lerk I haven't died once, I changed to Onos later and we won).
- With the blink spam and heavy armor+hp budget, any Fade paying attention to what's happening won't be killed, he'll just have to blink away and wait 5 seconds for the regen (what I did as a Fade, you die only when you stupidly bump into a pillar while blinking AND are out of energy AND are very low on HP).
I haven't tested the Feign Death, nor saw it happening (as no Fade got killed -at least while I was near- in the 4 maps I played), but it sounds so overpowered for a Fade in a pub, I'll have to test that next time.
The only two Aliens I found actually balanced are Skulk and Onos. The Onos is big and can't retreat that easily, so if he's going down, he's going down. Skulks don't have much HP and can killed rather rapidly, so the Marines still have a chance.
<div align='center'>...</div>
Regarding Marines themselves, with no healgun for players, you need the Commander to heal you for 2 resources (or going all the way back to the base). Armor ? Oh, you need to have a teammate spend 5 resources, then use it on you for 3 seconds - it's easier to die and respawn.
=> The armory should heal the armor up to a certain amount (40 ? advanced armory up to 60 ?), then you need a welder.
Meanwhile, all Aliens can just get Regen and wait at the corner for a full HP and Armor heal in no time (I know that for having used the regen like that with great efficiency as an Alien).
<div align='center'>...</div>
Regarding Cysts, it's a neat idea and system, but the Alien Commander can spam them everywhere so easily while Marines can do nothing against it (beside cutting one or two where they are currently standing), in my opinion to place a Cyst you should have a nearby mature Cyst (once you're 4/5-Cysts away from a Hive, closer than that you're free to place them as soon as a newborn is in range).
<div align='center'>...</div>
On the 4 maps I played, everyone was trying to play as Aliens in the Ready Room (6 people waiting to join Aliens while no one was joining Marines), and Marines weren't even trying too much, they were just trying to get the Jetpack to fly around and have fun, but they weren't trying to do anything beyond that (such as expanding their resources incomes or getting a second base). I think I'll wait for the next build to play the game again.
The most important thing to change is (imo) the Fade blink, it's making that Alien unit invincible, especially on pubs.
fade actually has quick low health / armor though. Sure the fade will own the marines if they don't have lvl1+ armor or weapons, or at least shotguns. but fades die quick easily with one hit of
and if you don't have either shotguns, or level 1 armor / weaps by the time fades come out then its probably gg anyway.
Fade CAN be invincible in the right hands... That's how NS1 was... I was happy to see that... Real skill + Fade = ALIEN WIN
People need to go in groups, always. When I first played as marines, I'd go alone and get ripped up. Now I go with a team and as Schkorpio said, Shotguns deal great damage to the fade at point blank range and force the fade to run away. If you kill a fade, it's a +2 or more, I don't know. JPs would be a match against the fade but as always you need to learn to use your JP and know where to fight the fade. Best to lure it into an open area.
You can blink forever, there is little reason to use the momentum. Then you can always shadow step spam...
and if you don't have either shotguns, or level 1 armor / weaps by the time fades come out then its probably gg anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Having shotgun at that moment is not a problem. However, saying one hit of shotgun is enough for a Fade is not true.
The Fade 300 HP 50 armor (90% of time upgraded to 100 armor), the shotgun deals 17 normal damage at point blank for each pellet (x10) (= 170 damage, 150 HP damages), which mean you have to land two <b>perfect </b>hits of shotgun at point blank, which takes at least 1.8 seconds.
In these ~2 seconds, the Fade can right-click at any time and survive. If he right-click for 2 seconds the regen will kicks in, allowing him to survive any second perfect shotgun hit.
Now, given the flying speed of the Blink ability, rather-low FPS framerate for most players and server latency, shotgun hits are never perfect, and you need more than 2 hits to kill, which give plenty of time (minimum of 2.7) for the Fade to right-click.
Also, by right-clicking away and waiting 5-6 seconds at the corner, the Fade will be back to full health (after landing one 81-damages swipes). What the Marines can do during that time ? Reload and move 5 meters ahead, without any way to heal themselves (no medigun).
The only way to keep the balance equal (after a "failed" attack of a Fade, who couldn't kill a single Marine and had to retreat early, landing only 1 hit) would be equipping a teammate with a welder (5 resources) AND having the Comm spend 2 more resources for 2 Medpacks. A 7 resources cost for the Marines for a failed Fade assault (with only one injured Marine), while the Fade can get the Regen evolution at no cost (once the Comm paid for it).
<!--quoteo(post=1956325:date=Aug 3 2012, 06:21 AM:name=Pooptronix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pooptronix @ Aug 3 2012, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Note about fade:
Fade CAN be invincible in the right hands... That's how NS1 was... I was happy to see that... Real skill + Fade = ALIEN WIN<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You realized that with no skill + Fade = Alien win ? I and other players just did that (when I played as a Fade). And that real skill + shotgun = Fade still alive ?
If there was a cooldown and vulnerability for Blink, then it would requires skill to not be killed.
The Fade 300 HP 50 armor (90% of time upgraded to 100 armor), the shotgun deals 17 normal damage at point blank for each pellet (x10) (= 170 damage, 150 HP damages), which mean you have to land two <b>perfect </b>hits of shotgun at point blank, which takes at least 1.8 seconds.
In these ~2 seconds, the Fade can right-click at any time and survive. If he right-click for 2 seconds the regen will kicks in, allowing him to survive any second perfect shotgun hit.
Now, given the flying speed of the Blink ability, rather-low FPS framerate for most players and server latency, shotgun hits are never perfect, and you need more than 2 hits to kill, which give plenty of time (minimum of 2.7) for the Fade to right-click.
Also, by right-clicking away and waiting 5-6 seconds at the corner, the Fade will be back to full health (after landing one 81-damages swipes). What the Marines can do during that time ? Reload and move 5 meters ahead, without any way to heal themselves (no medigun).
The only way to keep the balance equal (after a "failed" attack of a Fade, who couldn't kill a single Marine and had to retreat early, landing only 1 hit) would be equipping a teammate with a welder (5 resources) AND having the Comm spend 2 more resources for 2 Medpacks. A 7 resources cost for the Marines for a failed Fade assault (with only one injured Marine), while the Fade can get the Regen evolution at no cost (once the Comm paid for it).
You realized that with no skill + Fade = Alien win ? I and other players just did that (when I played as a Fade). And that real skill + shotgun = Fade still alive ?
If there was a cooldown and vulnerability for Blink, then it would requires skill to not be killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fade health was reduced to 250/50 in the last build I believe
Would like to send that crash report, but its not possible, since I can only choose between a black screen (if I select NS2) or my normal desktop (if I e.g. CTRL-ALT-DEL me to task manager).
I have to use ALT+F4 to quit the crash report to be able to close NS2.
Hope this gets better soon.
PS: There is no error message connected to the crash in the log.txt. Only sometimes: Error: Couldn't open file ''
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/E8xsmTOj940"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/E8xsmTOj940" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8xsmTOj940" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8xsmTOj940</a></div>
If there was a cooldown and vulnerability for Blink, then it would requires skill to not be killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... The game definitely has it's flaws... IMO a skilled Marine vs a noob Fade, the marine should win. And vice versa (skilled Fade vs noob Marine).
There's definitely some issues that need balancing. I'll leave it up to them...
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6HB6XCnBXA8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6HB6XCnBXA8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HB6XCnBXA8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HB6XCnBXA8</a></div>