Natural Selection 2 News Update - NS2 Build 215 released
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Comments
Things seem smoother, but my FPS (according to r_stats) is about the same as 213/214.
I for one welcome our new welder overlords.
<!--quoteo(post=1954004:date=Jul 26 2012, 12:29 PM:name=cake.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cake. @ Jul 26 2012, 12:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954004"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most of the times I am FOR improvements and etc. but: "Armories only heal health, not armor (like NS1). Encourages welder use, should help with 1-base stalemates." <- Why? Doesn't make a bit of sense, especially when marines were struggling as it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I for one welcome our new welder overlords.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, it employes new interesting mechanics and widens the significance of welders, but the only thing that this did for me when i was commanding was my marines not being able to get passed by 3 hydras even with an armory a few meters away (north tunnels entrance to server on tram). Otherwise i don't have many complains, it's too early to tell. But this one seemed as an unnecessarily overkill... I hope i will be proved wrong as I play more of this patch...
Oh, and btw, resource towers become unpowered after they've been redropped after they have been destroyed. Just think i should mention that.
I also agree with longer build time as it gives an incentive to aliens to chew it down. But welders...
<b><u>The good</u></b>
- Love the new player tooltips for aliens
- Love the new minimap icon to pinpoint your position
- Performance is steadily improving
- Hit reg feels a little better
- Power node changes are a step in the right direction, it's no longer a completely pointless mechanic at least
- No more nano construct!
- Slightly weaker alien harvesters are a good thing, it's much harder for marines to pressure alien harvesters than it is for skulks on extractors
- Lerk and fade carapace nerfs were in order, but they may not be enough early on and may even backfire lategame. (When especially the lower lifeforms struggle to survive long, see carapace scaling idea)
<b><u>The bad</u></b>
- Armory nerf. Really don't think it was a good idea to throw this in now, at a time when marines were already struggling hard. It may work in the long run, even though I'm still not entirely convinced of that, but the timing is just awful. Especially given the fact that no significant improvements were made to overall faction balance. In addition, it pretty much forces welder tech research early on. Where's the commander's choice in all this? No choices means little depth to commander gameplay.
- Onos is garbage. Hell, it even plays like a big garbage truck. You really have overnerfed him. The many nerfs he received were aimed at making him easier to counter early on, but you lowered starting p.res and now the onos doesn't even come out that early any more anyway.
- Regeneration is still too powerful
- Carapace is still too powerful early game, and pretty useless lategame. PLEASE implement a scaling system of some sort (either for carapace or for base armour), that would also go a long way in fixing the onos and other lifeforms that currently struggle to survive lategame. (Gorge for example)
- Early game is still pretty short, aliens can easily manage to get a second hive and leap up in under 5 minutes.
- Jetpacks are still too cheap at 10 p.res and loss of second hive pretty much means no JP counter for aliens.
<b><u>The ugly</u></b>
- Sentries are still useless. I can't believe you are just letting this go unattended. This is again one of those things that further destroys the marine commander's choices. (Instead of INCREASING the choices, what you should be doing, adding more depth and overall t.res sinks to the game so that even later on in the game the marine commander doesn't resort to spamming meds and ARCs.)
- Gorge is still terrible at its role of combat engineer. Either it needs to become a little tankier, needs carapace scaling or just needs to be able to deal a bigger punch.
- Lifeform 'explosions' are still a potent problem. Not gaining res on death does little to address this. Please reimplement p.res cost for lifeform upgrades, with smaller lifeforms like the skulk having to pay significantly less.
So in all, I have mixed feelings about this patch. It feels like we're taking two steps forward and one step back, really. But I guess we can be happy that we are at least going forward.
It needs to be played completly different, marines need to play agressive from early on.
The armory nerf combined with the reduced bite distance balances alot of things.
The scary thing is that the reason for this change is for helping with 1-base stalemates....
Gorges are boring, but I don't think they are terrible. I've gotten so sick of gorges locking down 2/3 of the map early game, forcing marines to get grenade launchers or lose.
Carapace still not changed
Feign Death still stupid
Shadow Step still free and mashable
Free hydras seem even better(in a bad way), less hp but 30% less buildtime. I could already redrop them one after another and re-up them after marines took them down
Shotty hitreg seems better, still terrible, but better
LMG hitreg might be a little better, still terrible, but gotta test it more
Spending 20 seconds trying to weld a power node back up, speaks for itself (Apparently all those skulks me and everyone else were yelling at all these months were actually ahead of their time)
<!--quoteo(post=1954018:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:01 PM:name=killer monkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killer monkey @ Jul 26 2012, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its a wonderful patch, I dont understand the armory not welding armor but whatever<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
game changed way to much sins when started playing beta, when I started playing game was fun, lots of fun, after build 200 it getting less fun, more stupid with every patch and really getting tiny bit pissed that these days developers seems to keep ruining games now even in beta they starting with it.
I liked the game, but getting more less enjoyable.
Most element I liked are gone, gorge was fun its ruined, marines where fun also getting ruined, I starting get dislike the game more and more. thanks for it. where can I get refund?
Increasing cost of nano shield, removing armory armor heal, plus many others are just nerfing the marines while they need a buff. I understand that you want more use for the welders, but not this way please.
However my biggest concern is the missing nano construct, which was great way to gain early area control for marines, which they really need in order to keep up with the pace of aliens. Now you just cant send one marine alone to build resource towers because its too risky and takes too much time.
Good however, that you decreased lerk and fade health/armor cos' they were really hard to kill.
I hope that in next patch, you balance the game for marines. Aliens are fun to play, but marines is hell...
feign death needs to be taken out of the game.
hyper mutation needs to be taken out of the game.
hitreg is better but still needs some work. (Reduced client-side interpolation from 150ms to 100ms.) maybe if this was lower would it be better?
alien commanders should have to use drifters to spread cysts. (more micro = more fun)
make cysts cloak tho so it would require a scan for marines. (more micro = more fun)
make camo like it was in build 212 aka actually really good like it was before you changed it.
add dynamic infestation. first thing you showed off and the last to be done?
fix marine gun jam bug.
fix alien spawn stuck bug.
AND REMOVE THE INVISIBLE WALL IN LOCKER ROOM as well fix the sound locations for the ball court woosh thingys. Move them north!
release veil even if its not ready. no one cares about your fancy trailers.
Increasing cost of nano shield, removing armory armor heal, plus many others are just nerfing the marines while they need a buff. I understand that you want more use for the welders, but not this way please.
However my biggest concern is the missing nano construct, which was great way to gain early area control for marines, which they really need in order to keep up with the pace of aliens. Now you just cant send one marine alone to build resource towers because its too risky and takes too much time.
Good however, that you decreased lerk and fade health/armor cos' they were really hard to kill.
I hope that in next patch, you balance the game for marines. Aliens are fun to play, but marines is hell...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
removing armory armor heal is great. (use teamwork and weld)
now they need to remove auto regen for aliens. (use gorges and heal)
<!--quoteo(post=1954028:date=Jul 26 2012, 02:31 PM:name=Artturi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Artturi @ Jul 26 2012, 02:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954028"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I also wonder why onos is still such useless lifeform and marine sentry guns are still ridiculous peashooters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They should just make sentrys good then tie a limit per robo. So 3 per robo and make it so you can only build them within a limited radius. Making building placement important. Then it would be ok. But there brains dont seem to understand gameplay and they just take the easy way out. Make them ######.
now they need to remove auto regen for aliens. (use gorges and heal)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is (like in ns1), but it's still a nerf.
<!--quoteo(post=1954030:date=Jul 26 2012, 10:36 PM:name=mobetta)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mobetta @ Jul 26 2012, 10:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They should just make sentrys good then tie a limit per robo. So 3 per robo and make it so you can only build them within a limited radius. Making building placement important. Then it would be ok. But there brains dont seem to understand gameplay and they just take the easy way out. Make them ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sometimes the old concepts work better than new ones (ns1 turret factory and sentries).
So, agreed...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Added ability for Fade to do a double-jump in the air.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played Fade for a while after the patch last night and never thought to attempt this - I don't think a new player will know about it either. I think this sounds a bit out of place for the Fade, why not just let them shadowstep into the air? In either case, it needs a UI indicator at the very least.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Armories now remove parasites.
Medpacks no longer remove parasites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still don't understand why parasites need to be removeable. In NS1 there was no way to remove them whatsoever, and Skulks still didn't use them often enough until the armor tweak made them necessary for a 2-bite kill. In NS2 they're highly unreliable so no one cares about them anymore - it's quite frustrating to put yourself out there for a parasite, catch a few bullets for your trouble, and then see it vanish moments later.
If you absolutely must, I would rather see parasites have a limited duration of a couple minutes. That way marines who stay alive a long time have a chance to go off the grid again, but there's no way to just immediately render them useless.
Fps seems to drop late game still, but now mostly only drops from 30-40 to 20-30, entirely more managable than before 20-30 early game, 15-20 late game.
Seriously happy with this patch, finally starting to be able to ainm well enough to do some proper pwning :)
Im not so botherd about the welding change, combined with what i percieve as vastly improoved hitreg, the effect has been minimal. I can also see how keeping the armoury healing armour, will be a huge problem when heavy armoury arrives, how on earth would u break a team of fully upgraded marines in exo from a room when they dont even need to put down their weapons to heal.
I know people cant understand why this was brought in, especially as the stated reason was to prevent one room stand offs, but i imagine that the playtesters found that it made exo very op.
I also think that without it being left in for so long, it would have made jetpacks too weak for us to even play the beta, so i can see why it was left.
... i kinda thought this would come, and am taking it (somehwat hopefully) as a sign that the exo will be rolling out soon.
Must say, i do miss nano construct, it was crazy, and i loved it :D
Havent seen it mentioned anywhere, but seemed to me like the lerks fire spikes faster now, maybe im wrong?
Anyway, thanks for the fps, and improoved hitreg, makes the beta a LOT more fun to play.
Hunter
Medpacks no longer remove parasites."
this is a weird change. what's the rationale behind this? skulks can no longer attack the marine economy through parasites...is this intended?
I actually agree with the armory not giving armor back. It's easier dealing with forward bases now considering people are neglecting to weld. But that'll heal over time.
No noticeable change in performance or network for me (still pretty bad framerate, and I still feel pretty cheated as far as skulks not dying goes ever since 213~).
The armor thing is nice, marines can't 1 base turtle endlessly anymore which makes me happy from either side. Nothing worse then wasting 15 minutes of my life waiting for the comm to recycle. It has almost no effect on the majority of the game. I DO wish welders had a longer range because it's really hard/annoying to tell someone to sit perfectly still so you can weld them, always has been.
Skulk bite distance nerf is nice. It feels like the skulk takes a bit more skill, you can't spam your way to victory as easily, which is good since marines LMG has essentially always been that way.
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->+<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> New effects on aliens looks good but not having the same for marines is bad, it breaks consistency (same thing than with footstep sounds)
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->+<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->/<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Tooltips are nice for new player, but rapidly become annoying.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Flamethrower is not fun, specially for aliens.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Lerk poison is not fun, both for lerks and marines.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Skulks are wrapping around a lot.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Waypoints order can get into the crosshair, the gui should never draw anything at the center of the screen.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Free hydra are still bad. In addition, they allow the aliens to turtle badly even if the game is lost, and then everybody is waiting for marines to get jps of arcs to finish it.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Power nodes requiring welders. Loosing early RT's is already a big loss for marines, being required to research, buy welders and repair the power node is a bit too much imo.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Alien respawn time can be a bit out of control (like 30seconds). It's not exactly the funniest way to balance the game.
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->+<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> New effects on aliens looks good but not having the same for marines is bad, it breaks consistency (same thing than with footstep sounds)
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->+<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->/<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Tooltips are nice for new player, but rapidly become annoying.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Flamethrower is not fun, specially for aliens.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Lerk poison is not fun, both for lerks and marines.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Skulks are wrapping around a lot.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Waypoints order can get into the crosshair, the gui should never draw anything at the center of the screen.
<!--coloro:#A0522D--><span style="color:#A0522D"><!--/coloro-->-<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Free hydra are still bad. In addition, they allow the aliens to turtle badly even if the game is lost, and then everybody is waiting for marines to get jps of arcs to finish it.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Power nodes requiring welders. Loosing early RT's is already a big loss for marines, being required to research, buy welders and repair the power node is a bit too much imo.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Alien respawn time can be a bit out of control (like 30seconds). It's not exactly the funniest way to balance the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree both with your points AND with your formatting.