<!--quoteo(post=1952811:date=Jul 20 2012, 09:59 AM:name=eh?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eh? @ Jul 20 2012, 09:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, but part of it is because aliens also have a "delay" ability with infestation spikes. And they both delay your progress in biting or progressing through a small area by roughly the same amount of time.
Maybe if nanoshield for structures only was 2nd CC like infestation spikes are 2nd hive it would feel better, idk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The delay ability has a small area of effect, you can't use it if the marines are already in your hive room and the spikes can be used only on infestation. Also they got with 214 a longer cooldown, you cant keep them up now to block a path completely. Also the discussion here is not about the alien infestation spikes. ;)
My takeaway from this discussion is that if you can't separate yourself from the "omg I died to a marine who got medspammed, medpacks are so unfair they need nerfing" reflex, and look at the issue in the wider context of the overall game balance ..... ... You probably shouldn't be a playtester.
Well it seems dishonest to complain only about marines having the delay or CYA ability for commanders if their team is out of position, when a slightly more attentive alien commander has atleast some capacity to do the same. Obviously not to the same degree, but that is probably always open to changing.
But yea, med spam just doesn't feel like a problem to me at all. Extractors building in 2 seconds feels like the problem, where else is the comm getting all the res to med spam in the first place.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I guess I just don't get why so many people draw the line between med/ammopacks and nanoshield/construct. I think once you accept the concept of the comm directly influencing individual player combat via a micro-ability, the basic concept of med/ammopacks are no different from nanoshield/construct. I'd even go so far as to say that nanoshield/construct are better implementations because they are 1. Noticeable by alien players (i.e. I can quickly and easily tell a marine in nanoshielded) 2. Has a set limit on how much it extends the players health/ability to build things faster
That being said, I totally agree that the current implementation of nanoshield/construct does need some tweaking (in particular, the nanoshield + medspam).
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1952825:date=Jul 20 2012, 10:53 AM:name=eh?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eh? @ Jul 20 2012, 10:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952825"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd say the line is drawn because it's quite easy to out-DPS medpacks alone as a skulk, fade, etc...
And you also get some minor gratification making the comm waste all that res on a marine trying to kill you.
Whereas nanoshield in combination with med spam, actually makes it impossible for one skulk or even one fade to outDPS you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was thinking about nanoshield without medpacks. Also, that speaks to adjusting the values of either medpacks or nanoshield, not for eliminating nanoshield.
<!--quoteo(post=1952821:date=Jul 20 2012, 09:30 AM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Jul 20 2012, 09:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My takeaway from this discussion is that if you can't separate yourself from the "omg I died to a marine who got medspammed, medpacks are so unfair they need nerfing" reflex, and look at the issue in the wider context of the overall game balance ..... ... You probably shouldn't be a playtester.
I'm just gonna throw that out there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They to consider how much res was spent keeping that marine alive. It's a case of trading resources for positional advantage and time. Spending a lot of res nanoing and medspamming marines outside of key locations and times can end up being a large drain on your economy, sacrificing key buildings and upgrades early on.
That's an issue that is difficult for some FPSers to grasp, they don't like that there are broader tactical and strategic concerns to the course of a map that don't just involve their ability to best the enemy in a one on one faceoff down a corridor. It's the same thing when it comes to infestation spike, trading resources for temporary positional advantage. Mines work on the same principle, yet people complain when they can actually kill a skulk in one hit, or do significant damage to anything bigger than a skulk.
Medpacks are more versatile, better skill-indexed and do a better job of giving something for the commander to do. The thought of replacing/tweaking a tried and tested feature just to accommodate nano-shield (which does pretty much the same thing but requires weird/crap cooldown mechanics) is pretty scandalous if you ask me.
Medspam can be powerful, but all it takes is a little intelligence to beat. Its relatively easy to get a marine off the medpacks long enough to kill him, combine that with nano and its nearly impossible. Also its the fact that every 1 bites as a skulk is 2 tres for the marine commander to nulify... You might still die as a skulk but if you wasted 6,8 or possibly even 12 tres for the marine commander, I wouldnt feel terribly annoyed. I am not sure how you can say medspam is not noticeable, you can pretty easily see the medpacks falling onto the marine and hear the noise as he eats them, it may not be a blue shield like nano but honestly for a new players either one would confuse them, they may even take the blue shield as a static shock buff.
I still think nanoshield on buildings would fill a decent role, nano construct however its a nightmare balance wise. Either each building time needs to be balanced with its use, or its needs to be made extremely expensive.
Yea mines are a completely different part of the game, and honestly are perfectly fine, dont bring them into this discussion... Alot less skill required to drop 3 mines on the ground and hope for a kill then to medpack 5 marines in 2 seperate fights.
If Nano tech (shield/construct) becomes a researchable upgrade at the armory for say 20 Tres it no longer is an essential ability for commanders to use, rather it becomes an alternative for interesting early game strategy.
Trying to "balance" abilities at this stage is a pretty bad idea because there are so many issues with the game at the moment that will further change 1 on 1 combat when (if?) they are fixed. Hit reg, teleporting players, running through players as you try and bite them... please fix these before attempting to fix a problem that doesn't really exist.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1952828:date=Jul 20 2012, 11:27 AM:name=Rise)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rise @ Jul 20 2012, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952828"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They to consider how much res was spent keeping that marine alive. It's a case of trading resources for positional advantage and time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Except for the fact that ample assisting from the commander thus far has been <i>leading to successful expansions,</i> and then rinse and repeat. Whereas the alien commander typically only has Tech Up or Expand, the marine commander has Tech Up or Expand or Assist.. and assist has been leading to the other two, part and parcel as they say.
And with that: Please.. to everyone who wishes to contribute to this thread, can we keep it how the OP intended for sake of organizing and staying on topic:
<b>If you are going to post please keep it limited to ideas on how to fix the issue.</b> Thanks :)
Making the nano abilities researchable is actually not such a bad idea if the abilities themselves are here to stay. Also, if we're looking for potential replacements, has the return of catalyst been explored?
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2012
Not fully realized yet, but has potential for implementing both nanoshield and nanocon in a unified model that solves the problems created by the current abilities while at the same time improving commanding.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited July 2012
I like your idea, fana, But the "cannot be used on players" is falling outside the box i was hoping to stay in for solutions. But i still like it if nano shield ends up going that way. Thanks.
What do you think about a unified model that has been suggested, with medspam accompanying a weaker nanoshield in a single use?
I have to say, after reading all your input regarding limiting commander interference during combat and heavy influence over a game, i am somewhat surprised to see you advocate for a mechanic such as medpacks. (from an objective design pov, not from a "it worked in ns1" pov)
@rhez: i like that idea, mostly because i despise trying to bite a marine with nanoshield 40 seconds into a round - it just feels so unfair.
@tweadle: i have no idea on the fate of catpacks, but i wouldn't hold my breath. To be clear about medspam + nanospam : This thread isn't about tweaking medpacks to accommodate nanospam. I believe the combined use and existence of both are a problem, and not <i>just </i>from an economical standpoint either. From visual feedback, perceived fairness, FPS over RTS, redundancy, OP, etc etc. I actually wouldn't mind if they both stayed as is, granted if the frequency of use of both toned down by %75 - %85.. But i believe that the economical issue of cost of assisting needing to scale with the progress of the game is just one of the many issues and is<u> far more</u> difficult to address, so for now we can simply address the OP use of when they are combined.
<!--quoteo(post=1953108:date=Jul 22 2012, 05:14 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 22 2012, 05:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But i believe that the economical issue of cost of assisting needing to scale with the progress of the game is just one of the many issues and is<u> far more</u> difficult to address<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...we never needed to address it in NS1 did we? Or did I miss the part where in my 4-5 years of playing competetively and casting top-level international games, anybody at all thought it was a problem?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited July 2012
This isn't NS1. I can write an entire list here stating the differences, from economy, costs, resource models, features, intended design goals... But instead i'm just going to quote what i said previously: "From an objective game design pov, not from a 'it worked in ns1' pov" .. You didn't have the abundance of weapons that you have in NS2, you didn't have nanoshield.. etc etc. I also don't think i'd be alone in saying that NS1's ability to scale was definitely <i>not</i> it's strong suit, and considering the intentions for this product being both competitive and widely public.. that has been one of the intended design goals from the get go.
And once again.. please... IF you are going to post in this thread keep it to ideas on how to address these <i>new issues</i>, else do not post at all, it just clutters the good feedback we are receiving and encourages long discussions - which is not what this thread is for. Thanks for understanding
edit: feel free to start a new topic if you wish? OR PM me if you wish to discuss this further. Either one.
I just don't understand why you think medspam is a problem. Health doesn't scale, armour does. That's why medspam was only really effective in the earlygame in NS1. Welders were always far more important after you stopped pressuring with LMGs. If you're saying that the real problem here is the combination of a tried-and-tested working, strong mechanic ... and a new mechanic... then I think you probably need to look at the usage of the new mechanic.
It's easy to dismiss NS1 when you weren't involved with it, citing "its not the same game". On the flip side though, if you walk into a room of professional RTS game designers and say "hey, don't look at the lessons learned in Starcraft because, its not the same game. They aren't applicable."... they will literally laugh at you. Because you'd be an idiot.
edit: In case you can't make out the underlying argument of my post - on a fundamental level, medspam as a mechanic is not the problem here. Let's not make out that it is. Does it need some numbers tweaked? Probably. Does it need removing? Just no.
<!--quoteo(post=1953266:date=Jul 23 2012, 01:21 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Jul 23 2012, 01:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't understand why you think medspam is a problem. Health doesn't scale, armour does. That's why medspam was only really effective in the earlygame in NS1. Welders were always far more important after you stopped pressuring with LMGs. If you're saying that the real problem here is the combination of a tried-and-tested working, strong mechanic ... and a new mechanic... then I think you probably need to look at the usage of the new mechanic.
It's easy to dismiss NS1 when you weren't involved with it, citing "its not the same game". On the flip side though, if you walk into a room of professional RTS game designers and say "hey, don't look at the lessons learned in Starcraft because, its not the same game. They aren't applicable."... they will literally laugh at you. Because you'd be an idiot.
edit: In case you can't make out the underlying argument of my post - on a fundamental level, medspam as a mechanic is not the problem here. Let's not make out that it is. Does it need some numbers tweaked? Probably. Does it need removing? Just no.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alot of words for contributing very little lol. Most people seem to be agreeing that nanoshield is the problem. I'm starting to come over to the opinion that nanoshield XOR medpack, you cannot receive both.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited July 2012
No one has suggested "removing" medpacks. Don't know where you are getting that one? Just see the OP for a collection of ideas - none of which suggest this.
Again,<b> you are not contributing to this thread if you are not giving ideas</b>. I am sorry if you do not understand the issue.
If you wish to have a discussion on the matter, please make a new thread or PM people. Other than that, please refrain from derailing this thread. Thanks.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>For all those who have contributed:</i> Your collected ideas have been submitted and viewed by Flayra. Mission accomplished :) Thanks for all your feedback!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Meds and Nano both cost res. As such, if they are being spammed, then that means your team (the Alien one) is losing. Instead of changing how these things work, why not change your strategy.
This whole game revolves around the RTS part of the game. Whoever dominates the resources, dominates the game. Yes, teams get stacked and that also plays in a large factor, but <i>assuming fair teams in terms of skill</i> whoever dominates the res wins.
You wont see a medspam early game because the comm can't afford it. You might see some nano but mostly on structures or marines conducting important tasks. So next time you see med and nano spam, think to yourself, is it unfair how these work or is it just that your team hasn't been playing the game very well.
Also trust me, aliens have plenty of perks as well AKA they regenerate without any ups. SURE would be nice if Marines had that.
The issue, death_by_bullets, is that with the combination of meds and nano the benefit is much larger than the cost in res. Medspam by itself is ok, nano by itself may be ok, but the combination throws the cost/benefit ratio off.
<!--quoteo(post=1953283:date=Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No one has suggested "removing" medpacks. Don't know where you are getting that one? Just see the OP for a collection of ideas - none of which suggest this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't suggest it either, nor implied that it had been. The removal of med<b>SPAM</b> as a viable gameplay mechanic HAS been suggested, and I made a counter-argument. <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->*SNIP*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1953283:date=Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you wish to have a discussion on the matter, please make a new thread or PM people. Other than that, please refrain from derailing this thread. Thanks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you secretly a moderator, <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->*SNIP* Nope he's not.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1953283:date=Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>For all those who have contributed:</i> Your collected ideas have been submitted and viewed by Flayra. Mission accomplished :) Thanks for all your feedback!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well that's a relief. I'm glad we have someone like you with insider connections making sure these issues get dealt with!
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Please refrain from flamebaiting or derailing threads in the future -Kouji San<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I actually don't like the fact that marine commander is expected to babysit the troops and turn the tide of battle with nano and med spam. Especially since they now take away from needed team resources. I find it to be a tedious role that takes away from the commander's real role of strategizing and leading.
Some things that are supportive in nature I actually like, like scans, or infestation spikes on alien side. What I don't like are when I have to babysit marines to keep them at health and in ammo, nanoing them whenever they come into contact with the enemy, and then getting whined at by players when I don't meet their expectations of help in that regard.
<!--quoteo(post=1954616:date=Jul 28 2012, 07:12 AM:name=OscarTheCouch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OscarTheCouch @ Jul 28 2012, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think nano and med spam make commanding fun, no matter if you win or lose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure its fun as commander, since you can watch your influence go extremely far. Thats kind of the point of this thread.
Comments
Maybe if nanoshield for structures only was 2nd CC like infestation spikes are 2nd hive it would feel better, idk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The delay ability has a small area of effect, you can't use it if the marines are already in your hive room and the spikes can be used only on infestation. Also they got with 214 a longer cooldown, you cant keep them up now to block a path completely. Also the discussion here is not about the alien infestation spikes. ;)
...
You probably shouldn't be a playtester.
I'm just gonna throw that out there.
But yea, med spam just doesn't feel like a problem to me at all. Extractors building in 2 seconds feels like the problem, where else is the comm getting all the res to med spam in the first place.
1. Noticeable by alien players (i.e. I can quickly and easily tell a marine in nanoshielded)
2. Has a set limit on how much it extends the players health/ability to build things faster
That being said, I totally agree that the current implementation of nanoshield/construct does need some tweaking (in particular, the nanoshield + medspam).
And you also get some minor gratification making the comm waste all that res on a marine trying to kill you.
Whereas nanoshield in combination with med spam, actually makes it impossible for one skulk or even one fade to outDPS you.
And you also get some minor gratification making the comm waste all that res on a marine trying to kill you.
Whereas nanoshield in combination with med spam, actually makes it impossible for one skulk or even one fade to outDPS you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking about nanoshield without medpacks. Also, that speaks to adjusting the values of either medpacks or nanoshield, not for eliminating nanoshield.
...
You probably shouldn't be a playtester.
I'm just gonna throw that out there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They to consider how much res was spent keeping that marine alive.
It's a case of trading resources for positional advantage and time.
Spending a lot of res nanoing and medspamming marines outside of key locations and times can end up being a large drain on your economy, sacrificing key buildings and upgrades early on.
That's an issue that is difficult for some FPSers to grasp, they don't like that there are broader tactical and strategic concerns to the course of a map that don't just involve their ability to best the enemy in a one on one faceoff down a corridor.
It's the same thing when it comes to infestation spike, trading resources for temporary positional advantage.
Mines work on the same principle, yet people complain when they can actually kill a skulk in one hit, or do significant damage to anything bigger than a skulk.
I still think nanoshield on buildings would fill a decent role, nano construct however its a nightmare balance wise. Either each building time needs to be balanced with its use, or its needs to be made extremely expensive.
Trying to "balance" abilities at this stage is a pretty bad idea because there are so many issues with the game at the moment that will further change 1 on 1 combat when (if?) they are fixed. Hit reg, teleporting players, running through players as you try and bite them... please fix these before attempting to fix a problem that doesn't really exist.
It's a case of trading resources for positional advantage and time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except for the fact that ample assisting from the commander thus far has been <i>leading to successful expansions,</i> and then rinse and repeat.
Whereas the alien commander typically only has Tech Up or Expand, the marine commander has Tech Up or Expand or Assist.. and assist has been leading to the other two, part and parcel as they say.
And with that: Please.. to everyone who wishes to contribute to this thread, can we keep it how the OP intended for sake of organizing and staying on topic:
<b>If you are going to post please keep it limited to ideas on how to fix the issue.</b> Thanks :)
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=119494&view=findpost&p=1952878" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1952878</a>
and
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=119494&view=findpost&p=1952980" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1952980</a>
What do you think about a unified model that has been suggested, with medspam accompanying a weaker nanoshield in a single use?
I have to say, after reading all your input regarding limiting commander interference during combat and heavy influence over a game, i am somewhat surprised to see you advocate for a mechanic such as medpacks. (from an objective design pov, not from a "it worked in ns1" pov)
@rhez: i like that idea, mostly because i despise trying to bite a marine with nanoshield 40 seconds into a round - it just feels so unfair.
@tweadle: i have no idea on the fate of catpacks, but i wouldn't hold my breath. To be clear about medspam + nanospam : This thread isn't about tweaking medpacks to accommodate nanospam. I believe the combined use and existence of both are a problem, and not <i>just </i>from an economical standpoint either. From visual feedback, perceived fairness, FPS over RTS, redundancy, OP, etc etc. I actually wouldn't mind if they both stayed as is, granted if the frequency of use of both toned down by %75 - %85..
But i believe that the economical issue of cost of assisting needing to scale with the progress of the game is just one of the many issues and is<u> far more</u> difficult to address, so for now we can simply address the OP use of when they are combined.
...we never needed to address it in NS1 did we? Or did I miss the part where in my 4-5 years of playing competetively and casting top-level international games, anybody at all thought it was a problem?
I can write an entire list here stating the differences, from economy, costs, resource models, features, intended design goals... But instead i'm just going to quote what i said previously: "From an objective game design pov, not from a 'it worked in ns1' pov" .. You didn't have the abundance of weapons that you have in NS2, you didn't have nanoshield.. etc etc. I also don't think i'd be alone in saying that NS1's ability to scale was definitely <i>not</i> it's strong suit, and considering the intentions for this product being both competitive and widely public.. that has been one of the intended design goals from the get go.
And once again.. please... IF you are going to post in this thread keep it to ideas on how to address these <i>new issues</i>, else do not post at all, it just clutters the good feedback we are receiving and encourages long discussions - which is not what this thread is for. Thanks for understanding
edit: feel free to start a new topic if you wish? OR PM me if you wish to discuss this further. Either one.
It's easy to dismiss NS1 when you weren't involved with it, citing "its not the same game". On the flip side though, if you walk into a room of professional RTS game designers and say "hey, don't look at the lessons learned in Starcraft because, its not the same game. They aren't applicable."... they will literally laugh at you. Because you'd be an idiot.
edit: In case you can't make out the underlying argument of my post - on a fundamental level, medspam as a mechanic is not the problem here. Let's not make out that it is. Does it need some numbers tweaked? Probably. Does it need removing? Just no.
It's easy to dismiss NS1 when you weren't involved with it, citing "its not the same game". On the flip side though, if you walk into a room of professional RTS game designers and say "hey, don't look at the lessons learned in Starcraft because, its not the same game. They aren't applicable."... they will literally laugh at you. Because you'd be an idiot.
edit: In case you can't make out the underlying argument of my post - on a fundamental level, medspam as a mechanic is not the problem here. Let's not make out that it is. Does it need some numbers tweaked? Probably. Does it need removing? Just no.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alot of words for contributing very little lol. Most people seem to be agreeing that nanoshield is the problem. I'm starting to come over to the opinion that nanoshield XOR medpack, you cannot receive both.
Again,<b> you are not contributing to this thread if you are not giving ideas</b>. I am sorry if you do not understand the issue.
If you wish to have a discussion on the matter, please make a new thread or PM people. Other than that, please refrain from derailing this thread. Thanks.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>For all those who have contributed:</i> Your collected ideas have been submitted and viewed by Flayra. Mission accomplished :) Thanks for all your feedback!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This whole game revolves around the RTS part of the game. Whoever dominates the resources, dominates the game. Yes, teams get stacked and that also plays in a large factor, but <i>assuming fair teams in terms of skill</i> whoever dominates the res wins.
You wont see a medspam early game because the comm can't afford it. You might see some nano but mostly on structures or marines conducting important tasks. So next time you see med and nano spam, think to yourself, is it unfair how these work or is it just that your team hasn't been playing the game very well.
Also trust me, aliens have plenty of perks as well AKA they regenerate without any ups. SURE would be nice if Marines had that.
I didn't suggest it either, nor implied that it had been. The removal of med<b>SPAM</b> as a viable gameplay mechanic HAS been suggested, and I made a counter-argument. <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->*SNIP*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->*SNIP* -derailing flamebaiting<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1953283:date=Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you wish to have a discussion on the matter, please make a new thread or PM people. Other than that, please refrain from derailing this thread. Thanks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you secretly a moderator, <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->*SNIP* Nope he's not.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1953283:date=Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 23 2012, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>For all those who have contributed:</i> Your collected ideas have been submitted and viewed by Flayra. Mission accomplished :) Thanks for all your feedback!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that's a relief. I'm glad we have someone like you with insider connections making sure these issues get dealt with!
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Please refrain from flamebaiting or derailing threads in the future -Kouji San<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I find it to be a tedious role that takes away from the commander's real role of strategizing and leading.
Some things that are supportive in nature I actually like, like scans, or infestation spikes on alien side.
What I don't like are when I have to babysit marines to keep them at health and in ammo, nanoing them whenever they come into contact with the enemy, and then getting whined at by players when I don't meet their expectations of help in that regard.
Sure its fun as commander, since you can watch your influence go extremely far. Thats kind of the point of this thread.