Siege maps

.ADHd.ADHd Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
edited May 2012 in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">Want to see these really bad</div>I'm sure it's been discussed before, but for those who don't know what a siege map is it is a map where each team starts with res nodes all in their own base. Aliens also get to drop 3 hives in their own base (Maybe more now with the addition of more upgrades). The rest of the map is usually long hallways and chokepoints. You have to push the enemy back into their own base to eventually win.

Is anyone started on making a new siege map? I had some good ideas about how to make one and am new to mapping.

I wanted there to be a giant airlock door or something towards the center of the map that has to be opened to enter the enemies territory where all hell will ensue. It would be so epic.

We would have to do some tweaking with the LUA to make it so arcs are no longer mobile but can still be built next to the robotics factory. This way arc spamming wont be an issue on siege maps.

Comments

  • fmponefmpone Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    You need to write entities for the door timer etc if you want to recreate siege exactly. This will require some coding, as well as mapping. There are very few entities in the spark editor, certainly not enough to create new gamemodes just from entities.

    I am sure I read somewhere recently about player thinking of making some entities to enable more things like this :)
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    One of the key-features of siege-maps are the actual doors (both conflict- and siege-door), and right now the only door we have available to us is that pathetic little thing we've been seeing everywhere. Custom brush-based doors cannot be made until we have brush-anchored entities, so any siege-map is not really possible until that has been implemented. Whether we're going to see that before v1.0, or indeed ever, is unknown. As much as I would like to, this is engine-stuff, so I cannot make this happen.

    Everything else can be realised via the Lua-scripts, and yea I'm looking into adding some server-side entities that should open up some more possibilities.
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I've made some concept art (which is poorly drawn) but I plan on building when the biodome set and a large time able door are released.
  • .ADHd.ADHd Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
    edited May 2012
    I just had kind of a crazy idea to get around having to have a door.

    What if instead we made the middle of the map where the door would be have 2 res towers in a 1x2 dimension. The first res tower in each persons territory would be the other teams. So pretend you are marine... you have an alien res tower on your side that you have to destroy to get through and you won't be able to proceed until the aliens destroy your extractor in their territory. So basically you block off the middle of the map with a space only large enough to fit 2 res towers. These towers spawn full built / mature at the beginning of the round.

    So, I am sure some kind of griefing would be a potential problem with that but it would work in making it so the other team can't rush your spawn in the beginning of the game (At least on marine side haha). Probably would need to disable the ability to recycle structures when on a siege map if we tried doing it my way. Thoughts anyone? Any better ideas?

    btw once they add the ability to smash open locked doors this wont be an issue.
  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Well, doors could be locked and closed 20 builds ago already (or so, not counting exactly). You'd just need to scale the door to a huge level and modify the door lock code to make a siege door.
  • JimWestJimWest Join Date: 2010-01-03 Member: 69865Members, Reinforced - Silver
    Where can you lock the doors? There is no option for that in the editor.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1935713:date=May 12 2012, 08:26 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ May 12 2012, 08:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1935713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One of the key-features of siege-maps are the actual doors (both conflict- and siege-door), and right now the only door we have available to us is that pathetic little thing we've been seeing everywhere. Custom brush-based doors cannot be made until we have brush-anchored entities, so any siege-map is not really possible until that has been implemented. Whether we're going to see that before v1.0, or indeed ever, is unknown. As much as I would like to, this is engine-stuff, so I cannot make this happen.

    Everything else can be realised via the Lua-scripts, and yea I'm looking into adding some server-side entities that should open up some more possibilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's been a while since I used the editor, but can't you resize all props freely? Though it might look silly and stretched.
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1936291:date=May 14 2012, 08:19 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 14 2012, 08:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1936291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's been a while since I used the editor, but can't you resize all props freely? Though it might look silly and stretched.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    DO IT DOC, DO IT
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES&#33; FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS&#33; Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    They had it in long ago, you used to be able to lock doors as commander, now you cant do anything to doors, they were meant to add welders welding doors shut, but they entirely forgot about it.
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1936291:date=May 15 2012, 12:19 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 15 2012, 12:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1936291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's been a while since I used the editor, but can't you resize all props freely? Though it might look silly and stretched.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You can, and I know what you're thinking of (blowing up that small door to massive ratio-broken proportions), and that would work, but it would look incredibly bad (might as well just play NS1 in that case). I guess you could use it as a stand-in while you're creating the map, with some scripting it would work.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    You know, there was only one siege map that actually looked good in NS, so is this "look" really that important J/K


    On a more serious note, I don't think you can actually resize dynamic props like doors or the prop_dynamic. Well you can resize them in the editor, but ingame they will get reset to their original size last time I tried to upsize a fan. I haven't tested the doors, but my guess is it does the same thing?
  • marksmarks Join Date: 2008-07-28 Member: 64720Members
    Firstly, siege maps were a horrible idea in NS1 and I imagine they'll be an equally horrid idea in NS2. Secondly, nice signature image bro. Not like we've been using that image for the NineLegends video logo for ... 5 years now? lol
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1936360:date=May 15 2012, 11:58 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ May 15 2012, 11:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1936360"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, there was only one siege map that actually looked good in NS, so is this "look" really that important J/K


    On a more serious note, I don't think you can actually resize dynamic props like doors or the prop_dynamic. Well you can resize them in the editor, but ingame they will get reset to their original size last time I tried to upsize a fan. I haven't tested the doors, but my guess is it does the same thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Siege-maps weren't lookers no, but an oversized & stretched door is pushing the envelope in terms ugliness. I've just tried it out and it indeed seems you can't scale doors, though I have the recollection you could at some point. Anyway, my first post stands, you'll have to wait for brush-anchored entities to have proper doors.
  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Well, they've already implemented one working door with lua code controlling its "locked" state. Why can't we just implement a bigger door with the same code? All you'd have to do is create a bigger door model, or am I being competely stupid now?
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    Or that, if you can find a willing modeller. Or just lots of doors next to each other. But really, these are all horrible hacks for a mode that itself was already a questionable hack of NS. If you're going to do it, at least do it right and proper right off the bat, people are already sceptic of the siege-gamemode as it is.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Hm, although, with the new super torrents, could a siege map really ever work? I mean, there are counters for turrets, but none that work in big empty rooms with like 10 of them cutting down anything that steps inside instantly.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1936361:date=May 15 2012, 08:03 AM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ May 15 2012, 08:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1936361"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Firstly, siege maps were a horrible idea in NS1 and I imagine they'll be an equally horrid idea in NS2. Secondly, nice signature image bro. Not like we've been using that image for the NineLegends video logo for ... 5 years now? lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm pretty sure siege was wildly popular and enjoyed by many people.

    In fact once combat and siege came out, the standard gameplay mode took a back seat for a while in terms of popularity.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    server mod to limit the amount of torrents?
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1936366:date=May 15 2012, 05:21 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ May 15 2012, 05:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1936366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you'll have to wait for brush-anchored entities to have proper doors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This.

    As far as I remember, these types of entities have been requested (not just for doors), but its a low priority.
  • KurrineKurrine Join Date: 2010-07-03 Member: 72235Members
    edited May 2012
    <!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->I'm all for the return of siege maps, though with the poor state of ranged anti-structure for the Kharaa, you'd basically get turret spam at the door that will shred everything that gets near it, and grenade spam with no need for an escort is another issue I think that'll kill this mode without some re-balancing specific to it.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
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