<!--QuoteBegin--BathroomMonkey+Dec 14 2002, 09:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BathroomMonkey @ Dec 14 2002, 09:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But what it <i>does</i> mean is that I've been around these boards for going on two years, so if I seem crotchety, it's because I have a different perspective. Certain things have been discussed . . . . to . . . . death. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> uh oh, digz has a comment, BAH!
Some of us aren't as lucky to have that kind of experience with NS,a good example is the ungodly increase in forum size within the first month awe struck me <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> . I just don't think most people understand what the devs put into the game, and take offence when they feel they are shot down even though they don't see it from your pov.
I really don't have a problem with the bite and muzzle flash. The bite makes me have to "stalk" more than rush franticaly down a hallway and hit him in the chest. If im waiting on the ceiling for a marine to pass by, then I have a while to aim and chomp. The mozzel flash makes me so im not taking all the skulks out by myself (and believe me i've seen this happen and its not fun). IMHO it makes my marine team stick together because if I miss, I know one of my teamates is bound to hit. It makes it so I don't sit there and unload my lmg- I instead need to try aiming to jam every bullet down that little buggers throat.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Dec 17 2002, 01:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Dec 17 2002, 01:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b><i>If you're (the devs) gonna put consistency for the models, then why stop there? Make us all play in <u>DEFAULT</u> res, and set our mouse sensitivity to 4. Make our gamma correction and brightness <u>DEFAULT</u>, make it so we cant pull the console down at the speed we wish, make that <u>DEFAULT</u> too...hell, while you're at it, change our custom controls to <u>DEFAULT</u>! Change fps_max and fps_modem all to the <u>DEFAULT</u> 72 so no one has better frames then anyone else, change the voice comm options to <u>DEFAULT</u> so no one can hear better then someone else, keep the <u>DEFAULT</u> software rendering, so those of us wth opengl cards/drivers dont have an unfair advantage over those running onboard video, lets set the rate option to the <u>DEFAULT</u> 3000, so those of us that know to put it to 99999 dont have an unfair loading time and ping advantage then those running at 3000, lets keep r_decal and mp_decal to <u>DEFAULT</u> so everyone has the same bullet holes showing up...this way no one can get better frames then someone else.</b></i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> okay
Here's the deal. Go join your local bowling league. During your first game, take your ball, walk all the way down the aisle, right up to the pins, and knock them all down with it. Hell, don't even roll it or let go-- just swing away until they're all knocked down.
If anyone complains, tell them that you're 'customizing' the game. If they complain further, tell them that until they make everyone of equal skill, strength, and natural ability, that there's no point in putting any limits on <i>anything</i>.
And even if the guy who invented bowling shows up and has the sheer <i>balls</i> to tell you that you're breaking the rules, get really, <b>really</b> indignant.
Imagine, the guy who invents a game <i>actually</i> thinking that that gives him the right to define rules for it! Talk about nerve!
<!--QuoteBegin--BathroomMonkey+Dec 17 2002, 05:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BathroomMonkey @ Dec 17 2002, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's the deal. Go join your local bowling league. During your first game, take your ball, walk all the way down the aisle, right up to the pins, and knock them all down with it. Hell, don't even roll it or let go-- just swing away until they're all knocked down.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LMFAO!!! Good point.
I just read another post that changed my point of view about skulk biting. What would it be like if the vision was placed somewhere else? How could you accurately judge the bite? You couldn't. I think I've just come to like the eyes in the skulk mouths thing...Now only if you could take the eyes on the skin and move them into the mouth. :\
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If anyone complains, tell them that you're 'customizing' the game. If they complain further, tell them that until they make everyone of equal skill, strength, and natural ability, that there's no point in putting any limits on anything<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are a **obscenity** moron. If you wanna use that dumb **obscenity** analogy ok fine. Thats why they make different weight bowling balls, so the weak dont have to use the same ball as the strong...and they have different types of lanes. You know, synthetic and wood...you can join a league that plays on one or the other or both. But as long as you are PUBBING you can choose which you want to bowl on. It would be unfair to make everyone use a 15lb ball, cause it might be too light for bigger people or too heavy for smaller people, thats why they give you the OPTION of CHOOSING how you wanna play the game.
Same thing with HALF LIFE. The other competetor might have his models turned off, and his decals turned off, and his fps_max and fps_modem maxed cause his computer cant handle the same thing that mine can. Just like the weaker guy (crap computer) cant handle the heavier ball like the stronger guy can (good computer).
Some people bowl with a curve, some people bowl straight, some bowl left handed and some bowl right handed. THAT is customization just like turning the models off is customization.
And by the way. How do you NOT notice this thing? <img src='http://www.lvcm.com/sobe/flash.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Here is what Squeal like a Pig has to say on this topic:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just for the record, I don't think any of the devs, particularly Flayra, have said we aren't going to change the muzzle flash or bite model at all. I do know that we have given many reasons for why the bite model is the way it is, and we have said that we are not going to totally remove the teeth. However, we MAY explore some other options, such as speeding up the bite animation so the view is blocked less.
As for the muzzleflash, I don't want to comment too much on it, but keep in mind that there is a piece of valve code where the gun flashes scale according to resolution, that wasn't realized by the developers until after we released. So, though I am not going to guarantee anything, there may be some slight resizing of the flash in the future. I'm just sick of seeing everyone second guessing what the developers are going to do, and what our reasons are for doing them. Just have faith that we do listen to the community (at least the intelligent, well thought out comments), we do want to continue to improve the game, and we do try to consider all options before making any changes that might have unforseen and drastic impacts on gameplay. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Dec 17 2002, 10:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Dec 17 2002, 10:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If anyone complains, tell them that you're 'customizing' the game. If they complain further, tell them that until they make everyone of equal skill, strength, and natural ability, that there's no point in putting any limits on anything<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are a **obscenity** moron. If you wanna use that dumb **obscenity** analogy ok fine. Thats why they make different weight bowling balls, so the weak dont have to use the same ball as the strong...and they have different types of lanes. You know, synthetic and wood...you can join a league that plays on one or the other or both. But as long as you are PUBBING you can choose which you want to bowl on. It would be unfair to make everyone use a 15lb ball, cause it might be too light for bigger people or too heavy for smaller people, thats why they give you the OPTION of CHOOSING how you wanna play the game.
Same thing with HALF LIFE. The other competetor might have his models turned off, and his decals turned off, and his fps_max and fps_modem maxed cause his computer cant handle the same thing that mine can. Just like the weaker guy (crap computer) cant handle the heavier ball like the stronger guy can (good computer).
Some people bowl with a curve, some people bowl straight, some bowl left handed and some bowl right handed. THAT is customization just like turning the models off is customization.
And by the way. How do you NOT notice this thing? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is completely different from the issue at hand.
Lower weight balls can be curved more, or thrown faster, and so on. It's all customization.
What I am seeing is people blatantly an knowingly give themselves an advantage as far as this game goes, and it's an advantage that noone else has.
I can hit a flying lerk with my LMG with my sprites on, and I am able to rip 4 marines in half as a skulk, even with my bite models on. You know how I got able to do that? Time. My twitch reflex was honed in CS and Firearms sniping, and I learned the fine art of meele combat from Jedi Knight 2. I practiced as a skulk, and I became a damn good shot after time, not after a console command.
What you are proposing, is just because you find it too hard to be effective, you propose instantly making it easyer on yourself, and keeping that advantage, kniwing full well that the marine shooting at you or the skulk trying to rip your head off is going to hae a much harder time hitting you than you are hitting them. For shame.
This isn't a multi-level customization system, IE: bowling balls. This is off or on. And one gives a clear advantage over the other, regardless of the person. Everyone would probably do much better without their models on, or without the muzzle flash. When you bowl, the guy with the bigger arms will do better when he uses the bigger ball, but the little 9 year old kid won't do very well with the 16 pounder, but with some practice, he can get strikes every frame with the 9 pound one.
One is finding the best "weapon" to suit your needs.
The other is flat out cheating.
BTW, if you can't aim with the sprite in place, try firing in bursts, or, leading your target so that you can see what the hell is going on.
Now, do you feel better that you got to toss out some swear words? Feel like a big boy?
Cool. Glad I could help.
Now my point was: you simply can't chalk everything up to customization, and try to make a case that if you're going to limit one thing, then you <b>must</b> limit everything across the board. <i>Everything</i> cannot be made into a personal option for the game, especially if it is, relative to the <b>rules</b> of the game, considered an exploit.
So, in bowling, you can choose a surface, and the size of the ball. You can also choose your rolling style. True. But, if you want to play something that bears any resemblance to the game that the creators intended, you must not cross the line. You only have a certain number of attempts per turn. You score in a very specific way. These are indelible-- at least, if you want to call what you are doing 'bowling'. And these were defined by the creator of the game.
I guess I'm glad that you feel that <b>you</b> are the one who can tell us defininitively what is and what isn't cheating, but . . . . uh . . . I'm afraid not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What I am seeing is people blatantly an knowingly give themselves an advantage as far as this game goes, and it's an advantage that noone else has. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
everyone that has halflife on their computer can use that option.
Also, I played with my models on for a long time and was doing just fine a skulk and marine...ask the guys i play with if you dont wanna belive me. In one game it just clicked that I could turn the models off! So doing so, didnt neccessarily make me a better player or have better aim, but it made it so i could see the entire playing field. Thats all.
The LMG's muzzle flash would make more sense if the HMG's muzzle flash was worse. The teeth are just silly. Yet another NS team creative experiment that shoulda never been done.
This whole argument is pretty much all about customization. Without custimazation where would some players be without their models, their scripts, their binds, and their actual game settings. If you think custumization will destroy the game, then you should e-mail VALVe to disable customization itself, because the game was made to be customized (modified...) therefore if you disable it by enforcing consistency people WILL change their models to have transparent models...people WILL change the muzzle flash .wad file. If you really thing all this propoganda about a small flare or chomping teeth is going to get anywhere, then you should really search for a different game.
If you dont beleive this, look at all of the TFC, CS, DOD, and all other mods's....websites, check out how much customization they give you.
Arguing anymore then that is futile. The half-life engine/ quake 2 engine was designed to be customized...thus being able to make different mods for half-life. <i>Why would someone think that because they make a modification for half-life that they get to change the half-life rules and console commands? Remember folks, NS is not a game, its a modifiation of a game called Half-Life. And in Half-Life, you can turn off models. </i>
You dont have to listen to what i have to say about cheating. If you wanna get technical, take out websters dictionary or go to dictionary.com and look up the definition.
<b>To act dishonestly; practice fraud. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game To deceive by trickery; swindle</b>
I dont see customizing in there, do you? Cheating in half-life would most accuratly be described as using a 3rd party program, to give one self an unfair and steep advantage over another player. IE -- locking on to a target, seeing through walls, zooming with weapons that werent meant to be zoomed, changing textures to wireframe / white wall etc. Typing a simple...SIMPLE command in console does just classify as a cheat or a hack.
Sorry for the swearing earlier. Your analogy was just so stupid, i couldnt contain myself, <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Dec 17 2002, 11:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Dec 17 2002, 11:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>To act dishonestly; practice fraud. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game To deceive by trickery; swindle</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Flay's rules say no dsiabling the v_models. In fact, it will be fixed in the next patch, too.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why would someone think that because they make a modification for half-life that they get to change the half-life rules and console commands? Remember folks, NS is not a game, its a modifiation of a game called Half-Life. And in Half-Life, you can turn off models.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, but I don't see the logic here-- we're allowed to change the default models, textures, engine, and rules of half life to build our mod, but not the default console commands? Why are those so special?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To violate rules deliberately, as in a game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right . . . so if the person who invents a game declares that something is a violation of the rules . . .
And the analogy was meant to be over-the-top, but I wouldn't call it entirely stupid. Even if you're 'pubbing', as you say, there are certain rules that you adhere to. Do you make those up, or do you follow the ones prescribed by the designer of the game?
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Dec 17 2002, 06:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Dec 17 2002, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And by the way. How do you NOT notice this thing? <img src='http://www.lvcm.com/sobe/flash.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm glad you showed that. If you notice, the muzzle flash covers up about 1/16 of the screen (not counting the overlap with the gun itself, which is always there). That's really not much. It really doesn't look any bigger to me than muzzle flashes from other games, i.e. Counter-Strike. Seriously, just stop b|tching. I'm sick and tired of it. Your arguments ... they aren't good. Sure the bowling analogy wasn't that great, but it was just a rediculous example to show how rediculous you sound. By the definitions you gave, you are cheating because you are violating the rules. The rules being that skulks get some vision detriment if they go around chomping nonstop and marines get some vision detriment of they blast full-auto all the time. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
MOST OF ALL: I realize you're going to keep playing w/o your models. And I think you're an idiot. And we can't stop you. So go ahead. BUT JUST SHUT UP! We don't want to see you and these threads that keep appearing OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND (did i mention over?) OVER!!!! ENOUGH! FINITO! EL FIN! THE END!
I dont know who this Flayra guy is. I've never even heard of him before I picked up this mod. But from the game i can tell that he is a talented individual, who is very intelligent, and creative. Wherever he is, he is making a lot of money by putting his talents to use.
But to think that this guy can change the basic commands of half life...that have been in effect since the beta of Half-Life single, is presumptious and overblown.
You can edit half life by changing how much damage weapons do, and what maps are going to be like, and to change the models. But you cant change the engine, and with that you cant change what is built into the engine. And you cant change the custom options that are built into that.
All of those options are in my autoexec.cfg (which is not deafault either) and were made by VALVe and Sierra Studios for the user to change at his or her own will. This is not my problem, but it still stands as a factor... People would turn the models off because their video card cannot handle the extra polygons. That WAS my problem at one point when i had my old 350. Playing cstrike was so hard because of my frames. But turning my models off boosted my frames by 15 or 20, because my card did not have to render those polygons. Seeing as how this game is more visually enhanced, this would only make it more logical to turn off the models for those people that dont have the system power to run it effectivly. I am sure you know all about that. When creating a mod, there are certain guidelines that must be followed. Might I say that this is the only Half-Life modification where turning off the models has become an issue
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It really doesn't look any bigger to me than muzzle flashes from other games, i.e. Counter-Strike<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was actually going to make a photoshop project of all of the muzzle flashes in the mods of the game...including HL, but no matter how hard i tried I couldnt get a screen capture of the muzzle flash in counter-strike. I captured 30 screens and none of them had the flash. THAT is how its supposed to be, transparent or translucent, and brief. Not taking up the entire screen. Like I said, skulks need every advantage that they can get, 70hp 10ap. Being able to see what you're attacking is not a bad thing man =)
I didnt start the thread, i just posted here so I can try to show you guys you are wrong.
Bathroom Monkey, if it is not too much to ask I would like to continue this conversation privately. Posting back and forth here is becoming fruitless and not getting anywhere. If you concur please private message me here. If not, this conversaion can go no further, and my opinion and the facts stand as is.
Didn't bother to read all 10 pages.. Can someone tell me if anything about modifying the models to take up a humane part of the screen was publically accepted? If not, then it's really sad <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Forcing such a handicapp as the default models are on all players is simply low.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Dec 17 2002, 11:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Dec 17 2002, 11:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But to think that this guy can change the basic commands of half life...that have been in effect since the beta of Half-Life single, is presumptious and overblown.
You can edit half life by changing how much damage weapons do, and what maps are going to be like, and to change the models. But you cant change the engine, and with that you cant change what is built into the engine. And you cant change the custom options that are built into that.
fps_max 120 fps_modem 120 ....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Guess what? Similar options are removed from many HL mods including official ones. The person making the mod can decide if a particular option is suited for their mod. (example, r_shadows)
If you don't like the rules of the game, you CAN make your own new game. You CAN'T change the rules for yourself and continue to play the same game. That's called cheating.
i beg someone to pleaeeeease link me to where flayra speaks of this issue!
Ahenties give me some examples in Cstrike, TFC, DOD, FLF, ricochet. Dont say r_shadows and not tell me wut mod =)
Again if everyone can do it......everyone can do it. Its not a cheat or a hack. An exploit, MAYBE but I probably wouldnt even go that far. Is bunnyhopping cheating or hacking? NO, because everyone, everywhere can do it. It doesnt matter what video card you have, or what controls....Its an exploit of a command called sv_airaccelerate. But thats off topic, so nm =)
r_shadows was disabled completely because it gave an advantage in CS. Unfortunate because it makes the game look nicer. (It renders a player shadow, but isn't exactly particular about ending the shadow at walls.)
fov is disabled in CS but not in TFC. fov allows you to create your own zoom for any weapon, or to use extra wide view.
chase cam (don't know command) is disabled in some mods but not in others.
EDIT: Bunny hopping has been labeled an exploit and turned off in some mods by default. Server admins can enable it if they want.
EDIT 2: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->An exploit, MAYBE but I probably wouldnt even go that far.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh no? Then why do you 1 sentence later. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its an exploit of a command called sv_airaccelerate<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This thread shouldn't just stop because the devs "haven't said they wouldn't change it" since they also never said they would change it. I would still like people to post here if they are open to the idea of lessening the muzzle flash and modifying teeth. Of course people are able to also post if they are not open to the idea. But I still believe that many supporters are not posting. Hopefully after the bit that Squeal like a Pig has posted those lurking people will be willing to open up on this topic until it finds a true conclusion.
<!--QuoteBegin--Comprox+Dec 14 2002, 03:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Comprox @ Dec 14 2002, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->During playtesting, we were very critical. We had fights with Flayra over things (like nukes) and whined and complained with the best of them. Not ONCE did anyone complain about the skulk bite or LMG sprite. We had a list of over 800 bugs, and guess what wasn't on there?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I complained about it. A lot.
Well, at first anyway. After a week or so, I didn't notice it anymore.
I would like to add some new input. Without taking sides, just let me say that I and many others really, really enjoy using custom models and artwork. I think custom models enrich the community, and can drastically improve the game. Locking the models to prevent cheating unfairly punishes the rest of us.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
uh oh, digz has a comment, BAH!
Some of us aren't as lucky to have that kind of experience with NS,a good example is the ungodly increase in forum size within the first month awe struck me <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> . I just don't think most people understand what the devs put into the game, and take offence when they feel they are shot down even though they don't see it from your pov.
I really don't have a problem with the bite and muzzle flash. The bite makes me have to "stalk" more than rush franticaly down a hallway and hit him in the chest. If im waiting on the ceiling for a marine to pass by, then I have a while to aim and chomp.
The mozzel flash makes me so im not taking all the skulks out by myself (and believe me i've seen this happen and its not fun). IMHO it makes my marine team stick together because if I miss, I know one of my teamates is bound to hit. It makes it so I don't sit there and unload my lmg- I instead need to try aiming to jam every bullet down that little buggers throat.
okay
If anyone complains, tell them that you're 'customizing' the game. If they complain further, tell them that until they make everyone of equal skill, strength, and natural ability, that there's no point in putting any limits on <i>anything</i>.
And even if the guy who invented bowling shows up and has the sheer <i>balls</i> to tell you that you're breaking the rules, get really, <b>really</b> indignant.
Imagine, the guy who invents a game <i>actually</i> thinking that that gives him the right to define rules for it! Talk about nerve!
LMFAO!!! Good point.
I just read another post that changed my point of view about skulk biting. What would it be like if the vision was placed somewhere else? How could you accurately judge the bite? You couldn't. I think I've just come to like the eyes in the skulk mouths thing...Now only if you could take the eyes on the skin and move them into the mouth. :\
you are a **obscenity** moron. If you wanna use that dumb **obscenity** analogy ok fine. Thats why they make different weight bowling balls, so the weak dont have to use the same ball as the strong...and they have different types of lanes. You know, synthetic and wood...you can join a league that plays on one or the other or both. But as long as you are PUBBING you can choose which you want to bowl on. It would be unfair to make everyone use a 15lb ball, cause it might be too light for bigger people or too heavy for smaller people, thats why they give you the OPTION of CHOOSING how you wanna play the game.
Same thing with HALF LIFE. The other competetor might have his models turned off, and his decals turned off, and his fps_max and fps_modem maxed cause his computer cant handle the same thing that mine can. Just like the weaker guy (crap computer) cant handle the heavier ball like the stronger guy can (good computer).
Some people bowl with a curve, some people bowl straight, some bowl left handed and some bowl right handed. THAT is customization just like turning the models off is customization.
And by the way. How do you NOT notice this thing?
<img src='http://www.lvcm.com/sobe/flash.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
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Just for the record, I don't think any of the devs, particularly Flayra, have said we aren't going to change the muzzle flash or bite model at all. I do know that we have given many reasons for why the bite model is the way it is, and we have said that we are not going to totally remove the teeth. However, we MAY explore some other options, such as speeding up the bite animation so the view is blocked less.
As for the muzzleflash, I don't want to comment too much on it, but keep in mind that there is a piece of valve code where the gun flashes scale according to resolution, that wasn't realized by the developers until after we released. So, though I am not going to guarantee anything, there may be some slight resizing of the flash in the future. I'm just sick of seeing everyone second guessing what the developers are going to do, and what our reasons are for doing them. Just have faith that we do listen to the community (at least the intelligent, well thought out comments), we do want to continue to improve the game, and we do try to consider all options before making any changes that might have unforseen and drastic impacts on gameplay.
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so...please...NO MORE ON THIS SUBJECT.
you are a **obscenity** moron. If you wanna use that dumb **obscenity** analogy ok fine. Thats why they make different weight bowling balls, so the weak dont have to use the same ball as the strong...and they have different types of lanes. You know, synthetic and wood...you can join a league that plays on one or the other or both. But as long as you are PUBBING you can choose which you want to bowl on. It would be unfair to make everyone use a 15lb ball, cause it might be too light for bigger people or too heavy for smaller people, thats why they give you the OPTION of CHOOSING how you wanna play the game.
Same thing with HALF LIFE. The other competetor might have his models turned off, and his decals turned off, and his fps_max and fps_modem maxed cause his computer cant handle the same thing that mine can. Just like the weaker guy (crap computer) cant handle the heavier ball like the stronger guy can (good computer).
Some people bowl with a curve, some people bowl straight, some bowl left handed and some bowl right handed. THAT is customization just like turning the models off is customization.
And by the way. How do you NOT notice this thing?
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That is completely different from the issue at hand.
Lower weight balls can be curved more, or thrown faster, and so on. It's all customization.
What I am seeing is people blatantly an knowingly give themselves an advantage as far as this game goes, and it's an advantage that noone else has.
I can hit a flying lerk with my LMG with my sprites on, and I am able to rip 4 marines in half as a skulk, even with my bite models on. You know how I got able to do that? Time. My twitch reflex was honed in CS and Firearms sniping, and I learned the fine art of meele combat from Jedi Knight 2. I practiced as a skulk, and I became a damn good shot after time, not after a console command.
What you are proposing, is just because you find it too hard to be effective, you propose instantly making it easyer on yourself, and keeping that advantage, kniwing full well that the marine shooting at you or the skulk trying to rip your head off is going to hae a much harder time hitting you than you are hitting them. For shame.
This isn't a multi-level customization system, IE: bowling balls. This is off or on. And one gives a clear advantage over the other, regardless of the person. Everyone would probably do much better without their models on, or without the muzzle flash. When you bowl, the guy with the bigger arms will do better when he uses the bigger ball, but the little 9 year old kid won't do very well with the 16 pounder, but with some practice, he can get strikes every frame with the 9 pound one.
One is finding the best "weapon" to suit your needs.
The other is flat out cheating.
BTW, if you can't aim with the sprite in place, try firing in bursts, or, leading your target so that you can see what the hell is going on.
No, no-- really: shhhhhhhhhhh.
Now, do you feel better that you got to toss out some swear words? Feel like a big boy?
Cool. Glad I could help.
Now my point was: you simply can't chalk everything up to customization, and try to make a case that if you're going to limit one thing, then you <b>must</b> limit everything across the board. <i>Everything</i> cannot be made into a personal option for the game, especially if it is, relative to the <b>rules</b> of the game, considered an exploit.
So, in bowling, you can choose a surface, and the size of the ball. You can also choose your rolling style. True. But, if you want to play something that bears any resemblance to the game that the creators intended, you must not cross the line. You only have a certain number of attempts per turn. You score in a very specific way. These are indelible-- at least, if you want to call what you are doing 'bowling'. And these were defined by the creator of the game.
I guess I'm glad that you feel that <b>you</b> are the one who can tell us defininitively what is and what isn't cheating, but . . . . uh . . . I'm afraid not.
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everyone that has halflife on their computer can use that option.
Also, I played with my models on for a long time and was doing just fine a skulk and marine...ask the guys i play with if you dont wanna belive me. In one game it just clicked that I could turn the models off! So doing so, didnt neccessarily make me a better player or have better aim, but it made it so i could see the entire playing field. Thats all.
or maybe you have difficulty reading.....who knows....
If you dont beleive this, look at all of the TFC, CS, DOD, and all other mods's....websites, check out how much customization they give you.
Arguing anymore then that is futile. The half-life engine/ quake 2 engine was designed to be customized...thus being able to make different mods for half-life. <i>Why would someone think that because they make a modification for half-life that they get to change the half-life rules and console commands? Remember folks, NS is not a game, its a modifiation of a game called Half-Life. And in Half-Life, you can turn off models. </i>
You dont have to listen to what i have to say about cheating. If you wanna get technical, take out websters dictionary or go to dictionary.com and look up the definition.
<b>To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game
To deceive by trickery; swindle</b>
I dont see customizing in there, do you? Cheating in half-life would most accuratly be described as using a 3rd party program, to give one self an unfair and steep advantage over another player. IE -- locking on to a target, seeing through walls, zooming with weapons that werent meant to be zoomed, changing textures to wireframe / white wall etc. Typing a simple...SIMPLE command in console does just classify as a cheat or a hack.
Sorry for the swearing earlier. Your analogy was just so stupid, i couldnt contain myself, <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game
To deceive by trickery; swindle</b>
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Flay's rules say no dsiabling the v_models. In fact, it will be fixed in the next patch, too.
Cheater.
I'm sorry, but I don't see the logic here-- we're allowed to change the default models, textures, engine, and rules of half life to build our mod, but not the default console commands? Why are those so special?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To violate rules deliberately, as in a game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right . . . so if the person who invents a game declares that something is a violation of the rules . . .
And the analogy was meant to be over-the-top, but I wouldn't call it entirely stupid. Even if you're 'pubbing', as you say, there are certain rules that you adhere to. Do you make those up, or do you follow the ones prescribed by the designer of the game?
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I'm glad you showed that.
If you notice, the muzzle flash covers up about 1/16 of the screen (not counting the overlap with the gun itself, which is always there).
That's really not much. It really doesn't look any bigger to me than muzzle flashes from other games, i.e. Counter-Strike.
Seriously, just stop b|tching. I'm sick and tired of it. Your arguments ... they aren't good. Sure the bowling analogy wasn't that great, but it was just a rediculous example to show how rediculous you sound.
By the definitions you gave, you are cheating because you are violating the rules. The rules being that skulks get some vision detriment if they go around chomping nonstop and marines get some vision detriment of they blast full-auto all the time.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
MOST OF ALL: I realize you're going to keep playing w/o your models. And I think you're an idiot. And we can't stop you. So go ahead. BUT JUST SHUT UP! We don't want to see you and these threads that keep appearing OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND (did i mention over?) OVER!!!! ENOUGH! FINITO! EL FIN! THE END!
But to think that this guy can change the basic commands of half life...that have been in effect since the beta of Half-Life single, is presumptious and overblown.
You can edit half life by changing how much damage weapons do, and what maps are going to be like, and to change the models. But you cant change the engine, and with that you cant change what is built into the engine. And you cant change the custom options that are built into that.
fps_max 120
fps_modem 120
rate 99999
r_drawviewmodel 0
r_decal 0
mp_decal 0
sensitivity 12
exec jump.cfg
scr_conspeed 5000
All of those options are in my autoexec.cfg (which is not deafault either) and were made by VALVe and Sierra Studios for the user to change at his or her own will. This is not my problem, but it still stands as a factor... People would turn the models off because their video card cannot handle the extra polygons. That WAS my problem at one point when i had my old 350. Playing cstrike was so hard because of my frames. But turning my models off boosted my frames by 15 or 20, because my card did not have to render those polygons. Seeing as how this game is more visually enhanced, this would only make it more logical to turn off the models for those people that dont have the system power to run it effectivly. I am sure you know all about that. When creating a mod, there are certain guidelines that must be followed. Might I say that this is the only Half-Life modification where turning off the models has become an issue
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It really doesn't look any bigger to me than muzzle flashes from other games, i.e. Counter-Strike<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was actually going to make a photoshop project of all of the muzzle flashes in the mods of the game...including HL, but no matter how hard i tried I couldnt get a screen capture of the muzzle flash in counter-strike. I captured 30 screens and none of them had the flash. THAT is how its supposed to be, transparent or translucent, and brief. Not taking up the entire screen. Like I said, skulks need every advantage that they can get, 70hp 10ap. Being able to see what you're attacking is not a bad thing man =)
I didnt start the thread, i just posted here so I can try to show you guys you are wrong.
Bathroom Monkey, if it is not too much to ask I would like to continue this conversation privately. Posting back and forth here is becoming fruitless and not getting anywhere. If you concur please private message me here. If not, this conversaion can go no further, and my opinion and the facts stand as is.
Now who wants to start taking bets on the next time this topic appears?
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If not, then it's really sad <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Forcing such a handicapp as the default models are on all players is simply low.
You can edit half life by changing how much damage weapons do, and what maps are going to be like, and to change the models. But you cant change the engine, and with that you cant change what is built into the engine. And you cant change the custom options that are built into that.
fps_max 120
fps_modem 120
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Guess what? Similar options are removed from many HL mods including official ones.
The person making the mod can decide if a particular option is suited for their mod. (example, r_shadows)
If you don't like the rules of the game, you CAN make your own new game. You CAN'T change the rules for yourself and continue to play the same game. That's called cheating.
Ahenties give me some examples in Cstrike, TFC, DOD, FLF, ricochet. Dont say r_shadows and not tell me wut mod =)
Again if everyone can do it......everyone can do it. Its not a cheat or a hack. An exploit, MAYBE but I probably wouldnt even go that far. Is bunnyhopping cheating or hacking? NO, because everyone, everywhere can do it. It doesnt matter what video card you have, or what controls....Its an exploit of a command called sv_airaccelerate. But thats off topic, so nm =)
fov is disabled in CS but not in TFC. fov allows you to create your own zoom for any weapon, or to use extra wide view.
chase cam (don't know command) is disabled in some mods but not in others.
EDIT: Bunny hopping has been labeled an exploit and turned off in some mods by default. Server admins can enable it if they want.
EDIT 2:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->An exploit, MAYBE but I probably wouldnt even go that far.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh no? Then why do you 1 sentence later. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its an exploit of a command called sv_airaccelerate<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and you're avoiding the subject. LINK ME TO WHERE FLAYRA SPEAKS OF THESE ISSUES PLEEEEASE
However, it's going to be locked in the next patch. I think that pretty much speaks for itself right?
Show me your proof, dont call yourself lazy. I think that I am just calling out your bluff...prove me wrong
I complained about it. A lot.
Well, at first anyway. After a week or so, I didn't notice it anymore.