Bring back the HMG
Gorge_Lucas
Join Date: 2011-07-10 Member: 109352Members
Join Date: 2011-07-10 Member: 109352Members
<div class="IPBDescription">This is serious, hear me out.</div>I given this topic alot of thought and I welcome all comments especially from the devs.
Firstly I will explain my idea for the HMG in NS2 is and then why.
The HMG from NS1 was and still is one of my and many others favourite weapons from just about any fps game. I think the unique 'pom-pom' design and magazine loading setup is really cool and perfectly suited for the type of game NS is.
However, having a 150 round HMG in NS2 when we have the Minigun/Exo just around the corner doesnt make sense. So what I'm proposing is a stripped down version of the old NS1 HMG. It would look basically the same with the under and over double barrel and top loading magazine setup but seeing that it is a leaner versionof the HMG with a smaller magazine it wouldn't need to be as bulky looking. The best way to describe is to compare it with the LMG.
Specs:
1. Uses a more slightly powerful round than the LMG. Higher peneration against armor.
2. Has a 50 round magazine. 150 rounds is pointless and OP. The minigun will fill this role anyway.
3. Has a slower ROF than the LMG to compensate for the more powerful round.
4. Reloads like the NS1 HMG i.e very slow.
5. Close to mid range only weapon. Much higher bullet spread firing full-auto.
6. Max ammo is 3 clips. 1 in the gun and 2 to carry: 3 x 50 - 150 total.
7. Requires Advanced Armory and 20 Tres for the Commander to research.
8. Requires 30 Pres for Marines to buy.
9. Has a movement penalty that is the same as the Flamethrower.
10. Looks similar to the old NS1 HMG similar barrel length but not as wide around the breach.
Ok now here is why:
What is the role this gun will fill?
Well the main role will be to take on Fades. I've been playing NS2 for a while now and as we all know the crux of the battle is to stop the 2nd hive being built so that the Marines aren't slaughtered by Fades. Once a few skilled Fades and other lifeforms team up there is really nothing to stop them and the slow base grind begins where Marines are locked in their base and can't break out.
Even skilled players with shotguns, flamethrowers and nades have trouble breaking through a good base siege. Also I know that the old rule of thumb with fades is to grab some shotguns and maybe a flamethrower but up against some skilled Fades the Marines still get cut down or the Fades simply blink away - which is fine because that is what they are supposed to do.
So summing up this new leaner HMG will fill the role of Heavy Assault Support Weapon in the mid to late game - mainly to take down or break Multiple-Upgraded Fade attacks. I know that the Minigun/Exo will be available soon but as we know that and the Onos are really late game classes, the HMG is there is give the Marines a bit of an edge in the mid game after the 2nd hive goes up but as I've explained this weapon does come with penalties such as cost, movement etc. THIS IS NOT A RAMBO WEAPON.
During combat the HMG marine will have alot of upfront firepower in CQC but he will be vulnerable during the long reload and will be very slow moving. Also because of wider spread of the HMG he won't be able to engage long range targets and thus be vulnerable to ranged attacks. Therefore a HMG marine will still need backup. The HMG will give a small team of Marines more constant upfront firepower than say the Shotgun and GL which are pretty random weapons at times.
The other Aliens such as the Skulk, Lerk and even the Gorge should be able to get out of the way of the limited range of the slow moving HMG. They will take more damage per shot but wont be hit as often as the more accurate LMG. Also skulks can exploit the long reload time of the HMG to mount effective ambushes. Against structures the HMG will just be like a more powerful LMG as it will kill structures a bit quicker at close range but it won't be as good as the pistol or LMG when it comes to sniping cysts and long range hydras.
Also I know Jetpacks are soon to be implemented and I really can't see the Jetpack + HMG combo as being OP seeing that this stripped down HMG has a much smaller magazine and the JP+HMG combo will obviously be a mid to late game option when the Aliens have a few hives up, not to mention that a JP and HMG togther would be very costly in Pres. It will however be a great tool to break through fairly solid siege infestations and target hives, some great aerial battles could ensue!!
Summing up:
I think this weapon WILL fill a void in game. And rather than nerf or buff already established parameters of the game, I thought adding a new feature to improve things is much more fun and come on who honestly would say no to a new marine gun! Also I notice too when playing on the pub servers alot of new players really hit the wall when it comes Fade attacks. Alot of them find it really unenjoyable to be constantly cut down by a Fade after you've shoved a full LMG clip down it's throat. At least if you have some skills, teamates and some luck when you empty a 50 round HMG clip into a Fade he will go down, or at least take some serious and damage and retreat. Therefore, it might make these casual players more likely to hang around.
I could think of a few more things to say but I'll leave it at that for now. But like I said I'd really like everyone to weigh in on this and make it an epic discussion!
Firstly I will explain my idea for the HMG in NS2 is and then why.
The HMG from NS1 was and still is one of my and many others favourite weapons from just about any fps game. I think the unique 'pom-pom' design and magazine loading setup is really cool and perfectly suited for the type of game NS is.
However, having a 150 round HMG in NS2 when we have the Minigun/Exo just around the corner doesnt make sense. So what I'm proposing is a stripped down version of the old NS1 HMG. It would look basically the same with the under and over double barrel and top loading magazine setup but seeing that it is a leaner versionof the HMG with a smaller magazine it wouldn't need to be as bulky looking. The best way to describe is to compare it with the LMG.
Specs:
1. Uses a more slightly powerful round than the LMG. Higher peneration against armor.
2. Has a 50 round magazine. 150 rounds is pointless and OP. The minigun will fill this role anyway.
3. Has a slower ROF than the LMG to compensate for the more powerful round.
4. Reloads like the NS1 HMG i.e very slow.
5. Close to mid range only weapon. Much higher bullet spread firing full-auto.
6. Max ammo is 3 clips. 1 in the gun and 2 to carry: 3 x 50 - 150 total.
7. Requires Advanced Armory and 20 Tres for the Commander to research.
8. Requires 30 Pres for Marines to buy.
9. Has a movement penalty that is the same as the Flamethrower.
10. Looks similar to the old NS1 HMG similar barrel length but not as wide around the breach.
Ok now here is why:
What is the role this gun will fill?
Well the main role will be to take on Fades. I've been playing NS2 for a while now and as we all know the crux of the battle is to stop the 2nd hive being built so that the Marines aren't slaughtered by Fades. Once a few skilled Fades and other lifeforms team up there is really nothing to stop them and the slow base grind begins where Marines are locked in their base and can't break out.
Even skilled players with shotguns, flamethrowers and nades have trouble breaking through a good base siege. Also I know that the old rule of thumb with fades is to grab some shotguns and maybe a flamethrower but up against some skilled Fades the Marines still get cut down or the Fades simply blink away - which is fine because that is what they are supposed to do.
So summing up this new leaner HMG will fill the role of Heavy Assault Support Weapon in the mid to late game - mainly to take down or break Multiple-Upgraded Fade attacks. I know that the Minigun/Exo will be available soon but as we know that and the Onos are really late game classes, the HMG is there is give the Marines a bit of an edge in the mid game after the 2nd hive goes up but as I've explained this weapon does come with penalties such as cost, movement etc. THIS IS NOT A RAMBO WEAPON.
During combat the HMG marine will have alot of upfront firepower in CQC but he will be vulnerable during the long reload and will be very slow moving. Also because of wider spread of the HMG he won't be able to engage long range targets and thus be vulnerable to ranged attacks. Therefore a HMG marine will still need backup. The HMG will give a small team of Marines more constant upfront firepower than say the Shotgun and GL which are pretty random weapons at times.
The other Aliens such as the Skulk, Lerk and even the Gorge should be able to get out of the way of the limited range of the slow moving HMG. They will take more damage per shot but wont be hit as often as the more accurate LMG. Also skulks can exploit the long reload time of the HMG to mount effective ambushes. Against structures the HMG will just be like a more powerful LMG as it will kill structures a bit quicker at close range but it won't be as good as the pistol or LMG when it comes to sniping cysts and long range hydras.
Also I know Jetpacks are soon to be implemented and I really can't see the Jetpack + HMG combo as being OP seeing that this stripped down HMG has a much smaller magazine and the JP+HMG combo will obviously be a mid to late game option when the Aliens have a few hives up, not to mention that a JP and HMG togther would be very costly in Pres. It will however be a great tool to break through fairly solid siege infestations and target hives, some great aerial battles could ensue!!
Summing up:
I think this weapon WILL fill a void in game. And rather than nerf or buff already established parameters of the game, I thought adding a new feature to improve things is much more fun and come on who honestly would say no to a new marine gun! Also I notice too when playing on the pub servers alot of new players really hit the wall when it comes Fade attacks. Alot of them find it really unenjoyable to be constantly cut down by a Fade after you've shoved a full LMG clip down it's throat. At least if you have some skills, teamates and some luck when you empty a 50 round HMG clip into a Fade he will go down, or at least take some serious and damage and retreat. Therefore, it might make these casual players more likely to hang around.
I could think of a few more things to say but I'll leave it at that for now. But like I said I'd really like everyone to weigh in on this and make it an epic discussion!
Comments
i agree. you painted my average experience and opinion on the stalemate and the core of the issue.
only thing missing: the ease/quickness in becoming a 50 res fade is just so imbalanced, but this is due to the resource model change i know. but perhaps having alien individuals start with less res when joining? idk the solution.
nope sorry, news hurts but not happening
Only the exosuit can.
Like 3 SG blasts?
VS 2 swipes(most of the time)? The first swipe is "free" because of blink.
I would like to see a weapon like this as well, that way jetpackers would also be able to weild a gun that does decent damage more than 5m away.
+1 to the OP
Although, I would like to see it have a little more ammo than 50, 80 as earlier suggested?
The miniguns would still be more powerful due to the larger magazines.
As far as I remember, Schimmel's prototype mod have something like this.
Yeah I dont know about you guys but in my experience of Shotgun Vs Fade it's like this:
See Fade
Fade see's you
Fade blinks in front or behind you and swipes you
You fire point blank at Fade
Fade blinks
You jump and dance around because it's all you can do
Fade blinks in front or behind you
You get 1 more shotgun blast in
Fade swipes
You die
Fade blinks back to hive
repeat
would be good, an upgrade to convert lmg in hmg
<img src="http://atlmalcontent.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/south-park-indy21.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I just thought "Gorge" Lucas sounded funny and he is a bit of a fat ######.
You are not supposed to kill the fade alone.
In fact I expect 1 or 2 people not to make it.
Think of it as tanks in Company of heroes.
you have to get someone to be the bait to get a grenade or a solid shot on them.
The exciting thing of the fade is it is a challenge to beat.
See Fade
Fade see's you
Fade blinks in front or behind you and swipes you
You fire point blank at Fade
Fade blinks
You jump and dance around because it's all you can do
Fade blinks in front or behind you
You get 1 more shotgun blast in
Fade swipes
You die
Fade blinks back to hive
repeat<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
replace this with a hmg that can get 1-2 rounds out in that same period and i don't see how this gun helps in your situation
in fact, in the situation you described above.. shotty is probably still the best gun you can use to deal the most amount of damage in 2 short bursts
Hope they bring back the old HMG as an upgrade.
Made it much easier to shoot lerks and fast moving fades.
I disagree, his entire game model for the HMG would work, would not be OP, and would fit into NS2 quite nicely (high damage close to mid-range combat, LMG does not fit this role). His balance for it is a great model to work with, and would prob create a balanced HMG in no time flat.
But again, we do not know the role exo-suits and their turrets will bring, and if they more or less overlap the spot this proposed HMG will fit into the game, it might be redundant.
<!--quoteo(post=1885767:date=Nov 19 2011, 07:36 PM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Nov 19 2011, 07:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885767"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->replace this with a hmg that can get 1-2 rounds out in that same period and i don't see how this gun helps in your situation
in fact, in the situation you described above.. shotty is probably still the best gun you can use to deal the most amount of damage in 2 short bursts<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game mechanic surrounding fade-marine fighting is intended that a single marine is not supposed to be able to take on a seasoned Fade user. Marines are meant to be played in squads, and that's where you beat fades. Unfortunately this does not occur frequently.
But you can two-shot a fade with shotty, not easy though, but it's possible. It takes 15 of the 20 pellets in two shotgun blasts to kill a fade, with no tech on either side.
Oops, didn't catch this from the OP :0 Actually i didn't read the OP...too much coffee :P
Why ask to bring back a weapon and then propose changes that makes it nothing like the weapon in question? You don't want the HMG from NS, you want something completely different. The only change i agree with is the smaller clip to balance it and separate it from the exo\hmg combo. The jet packers will need something more powerful than SG\GL in late game and this might be the perfect solution (NS HMG with smaller clip).
See Fade
Fade see's you
Fade blinks in front or behind you and swipes you
You fire 5 HMG shots at Fade
Fade blinks
You jump and dance around because it's all you can do
Fade blinks in front or behind you
You get 5 more HMG hits in
Fade swipes
You die
Fade blinks back to hive
repeat<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole thing with fades is that marines need to work together and when they do, fades are laughable.
The weapons seem so weak and inferior right now, a HMG would help balance that. Along with a real grenade launcher instead of a flimsy LMG attachment.
See Fade
Fade see's you
Fade blinks in front or behind you and swipes you
You fire point blank at Fade
Fade blinks
You jump and dance around because it's all you can do
Fade blinks in front or behind you
You get 1 more shotgun blast in
Fade swipes
You die
Fade blinks back to hive
repeat<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That seems like exactly what the developers intended according to this video:
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cw9STE1m2ug"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cw9STE1m2ug" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
youtube<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That video made me think of a way to nerf the fade a bit without making it too much weaker. How about if it takes a short time to exit the blink and that the ink cloud appears a short time before. This would make blinking in front of marines a lot less forgiving and it will be more about using it to surprise them from behind, like in the video.
noooo, fade is perfect, just perfect the way it is. lets all just wait until we have exos and jps and miniguns on the exos and mines from macs before introducing anything or nerfing player skill, PLEASE
+1
Wait until more pieces are in place before we start nerfing.
I think the grenade launcher has become a little to OP but i would rather get to feature complete before chopping it.
I think the biggest common thread I have seen which is not a nerf but adjusting it so that first swipe... he is visible.
Only the truly pro fades can repeat this every time but it is frustrating.
Also thanks for the video reference of a fade getting smacked.
Another tactic against fade is crowding them. Although they are invisible...they cannot go through you.
If 3 marines form a tight triangle one marine will go down (because the fade has to go THROUGH him) but the fade as well.
If the fade panics he will go down even quicker.
If you are alone with a fade....RUN.
so lets hope the exo is the end game solution all in itself, is that right? especially when fades are 2 tier?
(and yes we all know it takes coordination to take down fades, but only 3 players going fade is game over currently, and thats not a rare occurrence.)
thats how the balance mod has it right now
1 second delay to blink AFTER Exit instead of after entering phase
they also made RoF faster but less dmg per swipe.. everything to discourage the blink 1 hit blink idea
they upped the hp to compensate