<!--quoteo(post=1881930:date=Oct 25 2011, 06:42 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Oct 25 2011, 06:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sure it's all fun on the Marine side, but it's kind of a huge bs pain for Kharaa to suddenly find a never-ending wave of marines instantly teleporting to their hives and setting up turrets in what is supposed to be area under their control.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well they can prevent it with a good infestation spread and players on the tip of their toes. And an often effective counter is to camp the PG with a fade or some skulks while the rest of the aliens munch down the rest of the structures: turrets, armory, POWER PACK etc. Thought if they spam enough turrets covering the PG it is hard to counter.
I haven't played vanilla NS but I think I once heard NS2HD talk about some sneaky PG play in vanilla NS. Not that we should make NS2 like NS but just so that I have another argument :)
Even though I haven't played NS2 in some time, I'm for the removal of power packs. I think this will help substantiate the whole territorial tug-of-war a bit better. Thinking about from an observer's view, it sounds all too easy to repeatedly place power packs, nullifying the detrimental effect on the marines when a room was in alien control.
Does the name "socket" have anything to do with the transmitter insertion/hijacking power? I like that you are sticking with the idea of area control with each room having a control point. I've just recently started playing Company of Heroes (and League of Legends...I'm not much of an RTS or RTS-hybrid player) and I feel like this makes so much sense in terms of RTS gameplay/map control. Capturing a point/socket should be a risky endeavor. A captured point should provide a worthwhile benefit for going out of the way to expose yourself for its capture, as well as provide a clear separation of map control. I can see it creating mini-battles for individual locations...which goes along with the mapping design: unique and unrestricting locations.
<i>EDIT: Smelly's idea is simple and would work really well -- but there is the fact of changing control too quickly and well as the whole neutral state. I like to this this idea work with what you have planned.</i>
I like the fact that you've essentially created a neutral status for the nodes/sockets. At first I was concerned with how you would ever get the cage back on -- but I've never seen an RTS that had points go back to a neutral state once captured. I do see a problem with the invulnerable cage, however. How are aliens supposed to put a location in their control if they can't break the cage? Could this be done by the infestation?
Very excited to see MACs run through an area with some headlights, haha. I like the concept of alien structures providing natural light in darkened locations, as well. I, personally, use the alien vision mode very seldom (am I in the minority here?) so I would appreciate some lighted areas in alien control. I feel that the alien vision mode, although very cool when I first saw it implemented, is a bit...well...ugly. I have yet to look at the post about the community vision mod. I did see some others where there was more of an outline than a full overlay-like look.
<i>EDIT: Twilite's mod was the one I saw previously. I do like it.</i>
I hate to throw this out there because it will just make things messier -- but perhaps Gorges and MACs should be limited to changing the control of rooms? The previous issue was the MACs never making it safely and Skulks could quickly destroy a node. I think areas would switch control less often if this task was specialized maybe?
<!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->I like the socket and dimming of lights stuff, but...
As long as there are no sentrys ppl ignore powernodes, if they got better targets or more important stuff to do (so you only care about powernodes after marines got sentrys in lategame, or if you have nothing to do but wait for respawning marines) , the whole purpose is to give an easier way to destroy turtle marines... but since sentrys are so lategame in ns2 (going for this at the start of a game = lose) its always better to just destroy the pg, harvester armory marines build at the front than focusing the powernode.
Not only because those structures usually die faster than a powernode, they also mean a tres loss.
You want to destroy tres of your enemy team to get advantages in tech and slow them down => powernodes are uninteresting for the most part, and only noob distractions in pub games.
Also the powernode is at a wall and usually doesnt provide cover - while you can dance around while attacking stuff like rts(especially rts) armorys and phasegates - you cant while attacking a powernode. => you get a static target => easier to kill.
Powernodes need a lot more work than this, and in its current form - as planned opposite "tech" to the alien infestation, they are also very underpowered and not really fullfill that role... Infestation gives Motiontracker, heals a littlebit, slows sprinting marines, prevents marine building, gives lots of tiny targets marines have to waste ammo on and also give away your position if you do so => there is no way to get past infestation without giving away your position. (and dont forget footsteps, and fast alien scouts) <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
edit: Im not sure where we want to go with powernodes(cant give proper suggestions before i know that), and if we really should bring them and infestation into a too important role for things that dont really cost res or provide res directly There is already enough stuff to do in the game. Keep objectives clear and focused.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
already 4 pages! i would like to add my thoughts on this, but i'm afraid they are kinda outdated and i'm too lazy to read all that. if somebody wrote an idea about "powergrids", i support it! (marine equivalent to infestation)
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
From my perspective, the powergrid system has been a failure. It adds trivial complexity, but doesn't make the game any more fun to play. What it does, is add more tedious stuff to do (taking down powernodes is boring, and so is defending them) that prevents you from doing the fun stuff.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
The cage idea will not work, and it is not a good idea.
For how I arrived at that concusion, see below.
<b>PROBLEM ONE: Prevent the aliens from killing all of the nodes at the start of the game</b>
-aliens will attack cages, and be confused why their attacks are fruitless.
Subproblem: The aliens destroying all of the nodes and making the map all dark
<b>PROBLEM TWO: "Power packs can be built everywhere"</b>
-this really has nothing to do with power nodes, and everything to do with map design. Mappers aren't putting enough of the existing nodes in place. Fine, have them do that. Problem solved. Then decide what we want to do with power packs, in terms of getting rid of them, altering them.
<b>PROBLEM THREE: Aliens need to spread infestation to claim territory. marines should also do someting similar.</b>
-Cages are one solution to thsi problem. having marine commanders build power nodes is another. Having troops assemble power nodes is another.
<b>PROBLEM FOUR: There are places where the marines can’t build and it’s not clear why. Ie, tram tunnel, Crevice, Crossroads and areas near Alien Start.</b>
-have mappers place more nodes, problem solved. Unrelated to node-specific flaws.
<b>PROBLEM FIVE: The powered state of rooms changes back and forth a lot, removing some of the drama and special nature of those moments.</b>
-cages would not solve this problem whatsoever. once the cage was removed, the same principle would apply. ----------Unless, some special "status" was applied to nodes, that would alter their existing behavior. A cage does nothing to resolve this for good or ill, the current settings can be altered as is.
<b>PROBLEM SIX: there must be a way of making a power node unhurtable in a way that's understandable to a player </b>
-An alien should be able to chew a cage. One solution which works in favor of the cage is to make the cage an intangible entity, like a laser beam. Now players understand that the cage is indestructable.
<b>PROBLEM SEVEN: I could see infestation killing the nodes, maybe getting through the cage, as a possibility. Infestation could...should...? interact with Nodes.</b>
-Adding a cage to the existing design only further complicates this pandora's box. My brain hurts thinking about it, too complicated for new players and even existing players.
<b>PROBLEM EIGHT: Removing the ability for aliens to control the power does remove a fun mechanic</b>
-.............................then why are we adding in cages that delay the access to the fun mechanic...................
<b>PROBLEM NINE: marines have no reason to expand bases beyond MS, so you get 1 big base with loads of defenses compared to aliens with 1-2-3 smaller, more lightly defended hives</b>
-Putting cages on nodes means even less incentive to leave base. By turtling in base, you are solidified behind even stronger defenses, without cages, there is incentive to go out into the world and repair nodes, build new buildings.
<i>With the mention of powerpacks, I begun to think of turret factories in NS1. I skimmed through the thread, but none else seemed to have arrived at the same idea. [edit] fmpone touched on some of the issues I discussed (2/3/4/5) [/edit]</i>
Have two aspects of power; light and "power". Infestation nullify both of those, aliens can nullify power. The idea would be to have the light on in any room not covered by infestation. All roomes have "sockets" (looking like a killed powernode).
There are three stages a room may be in. Default is <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->light up<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. A <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->powered<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> room is where marines may build structures. An <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->infested<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> room is both dark and unpowered.
<ul><li>To add power and be able to build in a given room, the marines need to; Clear the infestation (from the socket?), attach a powerpack on the socket (now it looks like a normal powernode), build/activate the powerpack. The powerpack could be destroyed by aliens to unpower all marine structures in the area, but the light would stay on. (the electricity is still running, but the marines can't sap it). </li><li>To remove power, the aliens need to kill the powernode. This would unpower all marine structures in the area, but the light would stay on. (the electricity is still running, but the marines can't sap it). Infesting the node would also kill the power (the pack would take damage until killed, faster than the lights go out). </li><li>To remove the light (and the power if it's still there), the Kharaa would infest the room, and over a period of time (minute or so?), the light would dim to black. No emergency power works, the system is shortened out. When infestation is cleared, the light should flicker and go to full power over a series of ~10 seconds.</li></ul>
I think this implemantion would solve;
#1: you can destroy the powerpack. #2: only infested rooms would be dark. #3: not an issue in the system itself, but to make it clear you could add illuminated (forforescent) strips stretching betwean the powernodes. This would both make them easy to find in unfamiliar enviroment and make the end of a room clear. Clearing infestation would make the strip visible again, so that's not a problem. Example; <blockquote><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Red line: lights off<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->Blue line: lights on<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->Green line: power on<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></blockquote> #4: The rooms would change slower due to the need to set up and clear infestation.
<i>I think this would add depth and atmosphere to the gameplay, and help counter both issues by separating light and power.</i>
I just updated the power point design log with your feedback and I think we have a system that will make all of us (and many of you) happy. <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v4Uuem2LG0FB5LCt_f51AkBfory1td32GkVxL_XUb_M/edit" target="_blank">Have a look</a>.
After reading the updated log, now it just sounds like essentially what we already have, except it has to be actively built first, with some cool aesthetic changes to it. Whatever works though
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
I really don't like "cage" idea. I think Fluid Core is on to something alot better. Also, if motion tracking is still planned, it should only work in powered areas(marine territory).
Perhaps it would be better if the power node was already built when dropped by the commander, to save the marines having to build 2 things just to get their first RT up.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1882049:date=Oct 25 2011, 07:45 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Oct 25 2011, 07:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like this updated socket system, especially with initial territory neutrality and prolonged darkness in rooms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crazy idea here, but what if we completely trashed the Powernode idea?
I was just wondering what if we made all the effects and blackouts automatic?
Here, imagine this: Clean, untouched room has nice dim but good lighting and no DI in it. Then combat happens nearby, lights start to dim and flicker as DI spreads to the rooms next to it. Next, DI spreads and covers half of the room and lights are really starting to break. At this time, any marine buildings in it won't be powered. Finally, Aliens gain control of the room with full DI and blackout effect. Marines take the room back, and the process happens backwards. Then commander drops buildings and lights brighten from dim to clear. This is basically an idea that says, if you have buildings/DI here, it's your room. I haven't read the entire topic yet, but I'm sorry if I double posted or something.
This gives more emphasis on DI, having it in a room controls it's "power point".
While it's not a bad idea from an aesthetic point of view. It pretty much requires the game to handle like ns1.
<!--QuoteBegin-designlog+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (designlog)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The power point will be an empty socket to start. The commander can drop a power node inside of it (minimal resource cost), which can then be quickly built by a player on the ground. Once built, the socketed power node will broadcast power to marine structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see how aliens can control the lighting in their territory if the marine commander first didn't drop that power node in a socket. The only way to darken a room is by first building the power node, then destroying it?
From what I can gather, here are the main points (with some of mine added)
For aliens : <ul><li>The lighting in a room must <b>always</b> be controllable in some way</li><li>The glowing structures look very nice, but defeat the idea of hiding a structure / hiding yourself</li><li>Holding "attack" for 20 seconds, only affecting the health of a structure, is not that great (even if RT work that way)</li></ul> For Marines : <ul><li>Moving around in dark rooms adds to the atmosphere and overall game experience</li><li>Dropping in at a random spot to make a small base is part of the marine gameplay</li></ul> For Devs : <ul><li>Power packs defeat the purpose of power nodes, and empower marines too much</li><li>Dark rooms mean the visual details are lost, and it happens too often</li><li>Gameplay-wise, not being able to build in some places is unexpected, as no visual feedback is given</li><li>Too much switching between lights on and light off means the actual switch isn't as dramatic as it should be</li></ul>
That said, the proposed solution does not meet what I would expect from most angles. As aliens, we want to have rooms kept in the dark. As marines, we want them lit. As devs, you want people to see your work most of the time, and really be affected by the loss of lighting. Those are incompatible goals, since the aliens will always try to keep a room dark, the marines will always try to light them up, and as such, the switch will inevitably happen a lot. Something needs to be changed if we want everyone to be happy.
Maybe if a damaged power node would shut down, progressively, just *some* lights. And if completely destroyed, some lights would still stay on, but most of them be off. Some might sometimes flicker a bit. This would reflect ongoing damage to the power node, would give aliens dark spots to hide in a room, marines would get some light to see around and feel safer, and everyone can enjoy the graphical art and detail since some lights are there. It's pretty much a very dimmed environment, where aliens can hide, but a carefully looking marine will spot them.
Now, when do those light actually go completely off? Enter the infestation. A room with a power node completely destroyed and with infestation inside, would go pretty much pitch black as it is now. This is now clearly deep alien territory, and as such it should give them full advantage. As for the glowing structures, I would say the hive should glow, but the other structures should stay very, very low on the glow level (or even not glow at all in some cases). It adds some visual effect, but still enables structures to be hidden around.
On to power packs. Overpowered? Yes. Unbalancing? Yes. Why? Because they last forever. Give them 30 seconds of fuel. The commander can refuel it with an icon. This will require the commander's attention to work, and will then force a small base with power packs to be what it should always have been : a special, use-it-now base of operations. You can't put up a turret farm powered by a power pack if you need to cycle around and refuel it every 30 seconds, but you can very well build a small base with an armory or something and keep it working for the duration of a hive push. Power packs should be temporary solutions, rather than permanent installments. This is why they do not work right now.
As for the "why can't I make that building here?!" phenomena, there should be a visual feedback of the active power grid when placing down buildings. Every part of the map should be controlled by a power node, to make it simple. Failing that, zones should be able to be configured to act depending on multiple power nodes, so that if a corridor is dependent on the 2 power nodes from each rooms it joins, both of them need to be at least at 60%, or 40%, or whatever level you want to configure to also provide power to the corridor. This means a particular area linked by 3 nodes could ask for at least 2 of the 3 nodes to be at least at 50% health for power to be provided. It's more complicated, but provides a more natural and flexible feel to the map.
The power system as it is now seems to be good. If I was asked to answer the 4 problems listed in the document, I would do it like so :
<ol type='1'><li><b>Power packs are flawed</b> : Force them to become the temporary solution they should be.</li><li><b>Too much time is spent with rooms in powered-off mode</b> : Make it easier to get some kind of partial lighting back on.</li><li><b>There are places where the marines can’t build and it’s not clear why</b> : Provide more visual feedback. Make sure eventually, you can build anywhere.</li><li><b>The powered state of rooms changes back and forth a lot</b> : This is the basis of the game and the result of aliens wanting dark and marines wanting light. Changing this is very hard.</li></ol>
You know, if the waypoint system hadn't been made to use the Dead Space glowing line, it'd look pretty cool if those lines ran from an active Power Node to Marine structures in the room.
<!--quoteo(post=1882063:date=Oct 26 2011, 01:34 AM:name=Scrogneugneu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scrogneugneu @ Oct 26 2011, 01:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see how aliens can control the lighting in their territory if the marine commander first didn't drop that power node in a socket. The only way to darken a room is by first building the power node, then destroying it?
From what I can gather, here are the main points (with some of mine added)
For aliens : <ul><li>The lighting in a room must <b>always</b> be controllable in some way</li><li>The glowing structures look very nice, but defeat the idea of hiding a structure / hiding yourself</li><li>Holding "attack" for 20 seconds, only affecting the health of a structure, is not that great (even if RT work that way)</li></ul> For Marines : <ul><li>Moving around in dark rooms adds to the atmosphere and overall game experience</li><li>Dropping in at a random spot to make a small base is part of the marine gameplay</li></ul> For Devs : <ul><li>Power packs defeat the purpose of power nodes, and empower marines too much</li><li>Dark rooms mean the visual details are lost, and it happens too often</li><li>Gameplay-wise, not being able to build in some places is unexpected, as no visual feedback is given</li><li>Too much switching between lights on and light off means the actual switch isn't as dramatic as it should be</li></ul>
That said, the proposed solution does not meet what I would expect from most angles. As aliens, we want to have rooms kept in the dark. As marines, we want them lit. As devs, you want people to see your work most of the time, and really be affected by the loss of lighting. Those are incompatible goals, since the aliens will always try to keep a room dark, the marines will always try to light them up, and as such, the switch will inevitably happen a lot. Something needs to be changed if we want everyone to be happy.
Maybe if a damaged power node would shut down, progressively, just *some* lights. And if completely destroyed, some lights would still stay on, but most of them be off. Some might sometimes flicker a bit. This would reflect ongoing damage to the power node, would give aliens dark spots to hide in a room, marines would get some light to see around and feel safer, and everyone can enjoy the graphical art and detail since some lights are there. It's pretty much a very dimmed environment, where aliens can hide, but a carefully looking marine will spot them.
Now, when do those light actually go completely off? Enter the infestation. A room with a power node completely destroyed and with infestation inside, would go pretty much pitch black as it is now. This is now clearly deep alien territory, and as such it should give them full advantage. As for the glowing structures, I would say the hive should glow, but the other structures should stay very, very low on the glow level (or even not glow at all in some cases). It adds some visual effect, but still enables structures to be hidden around.
On to power packs. Overpowered? Yes. Unbalancing? Yes. Why? Because they last forever. Give them 30 seconds of fuel. The commander can refuel it with an icon. This will require the commander's attention to work, and will then force a small base with power packs to be what it should always have been : a special, use-it-now base of operations. You can't put up a turret farm powered by a power pack if you need to cycle around and refuel it every 30 seconds, but you can very well build a small base with an armory or something and keep it working for the duration of a hive push. Power packs should be temporary solutions, rather than permanent installments. This is why they do not work right now.
As for the "why can't I make that building here?!" phenomena, there should be a visual feedback of the active power grid when placing down buildings. Every part of the map should be controlled by a power node, to make it simple. Failing that, zones should be able to be configured to act depending on multiple power nodes, so that if a corridor is dependent on the 2 power nodes from each rooms it joins, both of them need to be at least at 60%, or 40%, or whatever level you want to configure to also provide power to the corridor. This means a particular area linked by 3 nodes could ask for at least 2 of the 3 nodes to be at least at 50% health for power to be provided. It's more complicated, but provides a more natural and flexible feel to the map.
The power system as it is now seems to be good. If I was asked to answer the 4 problems listed in the document, I would do it like so :
<ol type='1'><li><b>Power packs are flawed</b> : Force them to become the temporary solution they should be.</li><li><b>Too much time is spent with rooms in powered-off mode</b> : Make it easier to get some kind of partial lighting back on.</li><li><b>There are places where the marines can’t build and it’s not clear why</b> : Provide more visual feedback. Make sure eventually, you can build anywhere.</li><li><b>The powered state of rooms changes back and forth a lot</b> : This is the basis of the game and the result of aliens wanting dark and marines wanting light. Changing this is very hard.</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this. Rooms should have 3 stages of lighting;
1. Neutral - dimmed and/or occasionally flickering lights: this represents the station in disrepair but still operable. Mostly lit but occasional flickering or dimness gives an edge to any combat fought here as aliens could hide but not TOO effectively.
2. Marines - full bright, with response from structures to the node to represent link (sort of techny glowiness [different from alien glowiness!]). Marines will feel comfortable here and intuitively feel this is controlled territory. This requires commander to place link and marines to 'secure it' - short build time but stops commander spamming them. Link can be destroyed -> causes short black out before emergency lights reactivate and gradually return to neutral state
3. Infested - these rooms will be much darker, with glowy bits from alien structures and randomly in the infestation. This form of darkness combined with unnaturally lighting will be unsettling to marines. The darkness and infestation will be an advantage to aliens who have alien sight.
<!--quoteo(post=1882046:date=Oct 25 2011, 06:26 PM:name=Steinhauer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steinhauer @ Oct 25 2011, 06:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882046"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After reading the updated log, now it just sounds like essentially what we already have, except it has to be actively built first, with some cool aesthetic changes to it. Whatever works though<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's basically how I read it. I don't know how it will ensure that the lights stay on for longer or make it more dramatic when power goes out.
I really like the idea of having 3 lighting arrangements for every power node area on the map. With the atmospheric lighting effects, it would be awesome to use some low-light hazy volumetric effect for the infested areas. This would give the look of more humid air in these areas while still giving aliens a small edge in visual acuity when using hive sight.
<!--quoteo(post=1882046:date=Oct 26 2011, 01:26 AM:name=Steinhauer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steinhauer @ Oct 26 2011, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882046"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After reading the updated log, now it just sounds like essentially what we already have, except it has to be actively built first, with some cool aesthetic changes to it. Whatever works though<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not quite right...
- The change will make it a little bit more clear what powernodes are and do for new players(if active more light and maybe these pulses to the structures that are powered), also new aliens don't get distracted by chewing unimportant powernodes behind the front-line(because inactive) instead of doing something useful.
- No powerpacks, no double triple or more backup powerpacks for super turtle marines. => protecting the one powernode suddenly gets that much more important.
- costing res, and beeing a requirement to build before a room gets power and reduction to only one per area(no powerpacks) means, you can give powernodes/nanogrid? some cool (powerfull ?) upgrades/features linked to it.
- lights, well depends what we ll get - dimmed? flicker? darkness with glowing alien structures? emergency lights? - not really clear on that what we ll get and if it changes something... If you ask me - while i love atmospheric darkness, we shouldn't forget ns2 is not a single player game - its a competitive multiplayer fps. Just dont overdo it...
I hate the idea of pitch dark rooms withouth providing the marines of a better way to get some lightning. The flashlight is just not enough, it's hard enough already to take data core once it's dark now, I believe taking it will be basicly impossible once it goes pitch black. Another issue, why would the aliens want to build structures when it beats their best weapon? That is visibility..
Macs will hardly help the marines in enlighting a room, and flashlights have a limited range, so skulks have a pretty free game..
As I recall, there was a progress task regarding the Scanner Sweep lighting up the environment in its area of effect. Perhaps that could be a way to illuminate pitch dark rooms.
Updated system seems simpler, and is consistent with resource and tech node behaviour which is a good idea.
Still means aliens don't need to mess with power nodes at the start, still means lighting style is preserved somewhat.
I would request that aliens can still mess with the lights by infesting a power node though, it seems a bit dodgy having aliens be stuck with the lights on unless the marines come and turn them off basically.
Perhaps the alien comm can drop a structure on the power node to produce effects? Further reinforcing the similarity between resource nodes and the power nodes?
Could just be jamming a cyst into the thing, or maybe it could be some sort of useful structure which needs a hard cap, maybe some sort of area control structure or defensive structure? Or maybe aliens can use infested nodes to keep their infestation alive? Like they use the electricity from the node rather than the hive's bioelectricity or something?
I really enjoy how aliens infection works in NS2, but I dont enjoy the powernode/grids. As an idea, it sounds cool as all hell, but in practice it creates dull gameplay on both sides. So I propose some radical ideas like the ductape mode did for Doom3.
Add light switches! Early game skulks can turn them off and marines can turn them back on! Marines will want the lights on to make it easier to see if something is trying to chew/claw/spit/ram their faces off Aliens will want it dark so they can hide better and set up the classic gank at the light switch.
Add power generators! Does the same function as a powernode, but works like a turret factory. You build one it powers your stuff in a radius. If destroyed you cannot use your stuff. You need to rebuild or maybe repaired to get power back
By coverting a complicated mechanic into smaller ones we have made the game massively easier to understand, as well as create new and interesting game play out of it. Marines have to be warry of dark rooms and light switches and aliens now have a clear target to focus when trying to clear out turtled Marines
<!--quoteo(post=1882106:date=Oct 26 2011, 10:21 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 26 2011, 10:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps the alien comm can drop a structure on the power node to produce effects? Further reinforcing the similarity between resource nodes and the power nodes?
Could just be jamming a cyst into the thing, or maybe it could be some sort of useful structure which needs a hard cap, maybe some sort of area control structure or defensive structure? Or maybe aliens can use infested nodes to keep their infestation alive? Like they use the electricity from the node rather than the hive's bioelectricity or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A role for the Gorge ? How about he can drop a structure in the socket that enable the cysts around to be connected even if there is no hive ? It would need to be limited to a few cysts, like 3 connections or so. It could enable aliens to have outposts, however they would be relying on the socket, kill the socket structure and all cysts will go unconnected.
<!--quoteo(post=1882109:date=Oct 26 2011, 09:42 AM:name=Ender_74)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ender_74 @ Oct 26 2011, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A role for the Gorge ? How about he can drop a structure in the socket that enable the cysts around to be connected even if there is no hive ? It would need to be limited to a few cysts, like 3 connections or so. It could enable aliens to have outposts, however they would be relying on the socket, kill the socket structure and all cysts will go unconnected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like the comm to be able to do it as well, but yeah you let a gorge jam a cyst into it to set up a little outpost, would give the gorges a little more autonomy and further support their role as being more mobile than the main hive.
Comments
Well they can prevent it with a good infestation spread and players on the tip of their toes. And an often effective counter is to camp the PG with a fade or some skulks while the rest of the aliens munch down the rest of the structures: turrets, armory, POWER PACK etc.
Thought if they spam enough turrets covering the PG it is hard to counter.
I haven't played vanilla NS but I think I once heard NS2HD talk about some sneaky PG play in vanilla NS.
Not that we should make NS2 like NS but just so that I have another argument :)
Does the name "socket" have anything to do with the transmitter insertion/hijacking power? I like that you are sticking with the idea of area control with each room having a control point. I've just recently started playing Company of Heroes (and League of Legends...I'm not much of an RTS or RTS-hybrid player) and I feel like this makes so much sense in terms of RTS gameplay/map control. Capturing a point/socket should be a risky endeavor. A captured point should provide a worthwhile benefit for going out of the way to expose yourself for its capture, as well as provide a clear separation of map control. I can see it creating mini-battles for individual locations...which goes along with the mapping design: unique and unrestricting locations.
<i>EDIT: Smelly's idea is simple and would work really well -- but there is the fact of changing control too quickly and well as the whole neutral state. I like to this this idea work with what you have planned.</i>
I like the fact that you've essentially created a neutral status for the nodes/sockets. At first I was concerned with how you would ever get the cage back on -- but I've never seen an RTS that had points go back to a neutral state once captured. I do see a problem with the invulnerable cage, however. How are aliens supposed to put a location in their control if they can't break the cage? Could this be done by the infestation?
Very excited to see MACs run through an area with some headlights, haha. I like the concept of alien structures providing natural light in darkened locations, as well. I, personally, use the alien vision mode very seldom (am I in the minority here?) so I would appreciate some lighted areas in alien control. I feel that the alien vision mode, although very cool when I first saw it implemented, is a bit...well...ugly. I have yet to look at the post about the community vision mod. I did see some others where there was more of an outline than a full overlay-like look.
<i>EDIT: Twilite's mod was the one I saw previously. I do like it.</i>
I hate to throw this out there because it will just make things messier -- but perhaps Gorges and MACs should be limited to changing the control of rooms? The previous issue was the MACs never making it safely and Skulks could quickly destroy a node. I think areas would switch control less often if this task was specialized maybe?
As long as there are no sentrys ppl ignore powernodes, if they got better targets or more important stuff to do (so you only care about powernodes after marines got sentrys in lategame, or if you have nothing to do but wait for respawning marines) , the whole purpose is to give an easier way to destroy turtle marines... but since sentrys are so lategame in ns2 (going for this at the start of a game = lose) its always better to just destroy the pg, harvester armory marines build at the front than focusing the powernode.
Not only because those structures usually die faster than a powernode, they also mean a tres loss.
You want to destroy tres of your enemy team to get advantages in tech and slow them down => powernodes are uninteresting for the most part, and only noob distractions in pub games.
Also the powernode is at a wall and usually doesnt provide cover - while you can dance around while attacking stuff like rts(especially rts) armorys and phasegates - you cant while attacking a powernode. => you get a static target => easier to kill.
Powernodes need a lot more work than this, and in its current form - as planned opposite "tech" to the alien infestation, they are also very underpowered and not really fullfill that role...
Infestation gives Motiontracker, heals a littlebit, slows sprinting marines, prevents marine building, gives lots of tiny targets marines have to waste ammo on and also give away your position if you do so => there is no way to get past infestation without giving away your position. (and dont forget footsteps, and fast alien scouts)
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
edit: Im not sure where we want to go with powernodes(cant give proper suggestions before i know that), and if we really should bring them and infestation into a too important role for things that dont really cost res or provide res directly
There is already enough stuff to do in the game. Keep objectives clear and focused.
I used to hate cysts when the idea came at the surface. But it works pretty good right now.
For how I arrived at that concusion, see below.
<b>PROBLEM ONE: Prevent the aliens from killing all of the nodes at the start of the game</b>
-aliens will attack cages, and be confused why their attacks are fruitless.
Subproblem: The aliens destroying all of the nodes and making the map all dark
<b>PROBLEM TWO: "Power packs can be built everywhere"</b>
-this really has nothing to do with power nodes, and everything to do with map design. Mappers aren't putting enough of the existing nodes in place. Fine, have them do that. Problem solved. Then decide what we want to do with power packs, in terms of getting rid of them, altering them.
<b>PROBLEM THREE: Aliens need to spread infestation to claim territory. marines should also do someting similar.</b>
-Cages are one solution to thsi problem. having marine commanders build power nodes is another. Having troops assemble power nodes is another.
<b>PROBLEM FOUR: There are places where the marines can’t build and it’s not clear why. Ie, tram tunnel, Crevice, Crossroads and areas near Alien Start.</b>
-have mappers place more nodes, problem solved. Unrelated to node-specific flaws.
<b>PROBLEM FIVE: The powered state of rooms changes back and forth a lot, removing some of the drama and special nature of those moments.</b>
-cages would not solve this problem whatsoever. once the cage was removed, the same principle would apply. ----------Unless, some special "status" was applied to nodes, that would alter their existing behavior. A cage does nothing to resolve this for good or ill, the current settings can be altered as is.
<b>PROBLEM SIX: there must be a way of making a power node unhurtable in a way that's understandable to a player </b>
-An alien should be able to chew a cage. One solution which works in favor of the cage is to make the cage an intangible entity, like a laser beam. Now players understand that the cage is indestructable.
<b>PROBLEM SEVEN: I could see infestation killing the nodes, maybe getting through the cage, as a possibility. Infestation could...should...? interact with Nodes.</b>
-Adding a cage to the existing design only further complicates this pandora's box. My brain hurts thinking about it, too complicated for new players and even existing players.
<b>PROBLEM EIGHT: Removing the ability for aliens to control the power does remove a fun mechanic</b>
-.............................then why are we adding in cages that delay the access to the fun mechanic...................
<b>PROBLEM NINE: marines have no reason to expand bases beyond MS, so you get 1 big base with loads of defenses compared to aliens with 1-2-3 smaller, more lightly defended hives</b>
-Putting cages on nodes means even less incentive to leave base. By turtling in base, you are solidified behind even stronger defenses, without cages, there is incentive to go out into the world and repair nodes, build new buildings.
Have two aspects of power; light and "power". Infestation nullify both of those, aliens can nullify power. The idea would be to have the light on in any room not covered by infestation. All roomes have "sockets" (looking like a killed powernode).
There are three stages a room may be in. Default is <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->light up<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. A <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->powered<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> room is where marines may build structures. An <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->infested<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> room is both dark and unpowered.
<ul><li>To add power and be able to build in a given room, the marines need to; Clear the infestation (from the socket?), attach a powerpack on the socket (now it looks like a normal powernode), build/activate the powerpack. The powerpack could be destroyed by aliens to unpower all marine structures in the area, but the light would stay on. (the electricity is still running, but the marines can't sap it).
</li><li>To remove power, the aliens need to kill the powernode. This would unpower all marine structures in the area, but the light would stay on. (the electricity is still running, but the marines can't sap it). Infesting the node would also kill the power (the pack would take damage until killed, faster than the lights go out).
</li><li>To remove the light (and the power if it's still there), the Kharaa would infest the room, and over a period of time (minute or so?), the light would dim to black. No emergency power works, the system is shortened out. When infestation is cleared, the light should flicker and go to full power over a series of ~10 seconds.</li></ul>
I think this implemantion would solve;
#1: you can destroy the powerpack.
#2: only infested rooms would be dark.
#3: not an issue in the system itself, but to make it clear you could add illuminated (forforescent) strips stretching betwean the powernodes. This would both make them easy to find in unfamiliar enviroment and make the end of a room clear. Clearing infestation would make the strip visible again, so that's not a problem.
Example;
<blockquote><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Red line: lights off<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->Blue line: lights on<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->Green line: power on<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></blockquote>
#4: The rooms would change slower due to the need to set up and clear infestation.
<i>I think this would add depth and atmosphere to the gameplay, and help counter both issues by separating light and power.</i>
I just updated the power point design log with your feedback and I think we have a system that will make all of us (and many of you) happy. <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v4Uuem2LG0FB5LCt_f51AkBfory1td32GkVxL_XUb_M/edit" target="_blank">Have a look</a>.
I think Fluid Core is on to something alot better.
Also, if motion tracking is still planned, it should only work in powered areas(marine territory).
+1
I was just wondering what if we made all the effects and blackouts automatic?
Here, imagine this: Clean, untouched room has nice dim but good lighting and no DI in it. Then combat happens nearby, lights start to dim and flicker as DI spreads to the rooms next to it. Next, DI spreads and covers half of the room and lights are really starting to break. At this time, any marine buildings in it won't be powered. Finally, Aliens gain control of the room with full DI and blackout effect. Marines take the room back, and the process happens backwards. Then commander drops buildings and lights brighten from dim to clear. This is basically an idea that says, if you have buildings/DI here, it's your room. I haven't read the entire topic yet, but I'm sorry if I double posted or something.
This gives more emphasis on DI, having it in a room controls it's "power point".
Quick idea I thought of, don't flame XD
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/wDYKJ.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
While it's not a bad idea from an aesthetic point of view. It pretty much requires the game to handle like ns1.
<!--QuoteBegin-designlog+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (designlog)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The power point will be an empty socket to start. The commander can drop a power node inside of it (minimal resource cost), which can then be quickly built by a player on the ground. Once built, the socketed power node will broadcast power to marine structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't wait to try this out. Been hoping for this.
From what I can gather, here are the main points (with some of mine added)
For aliens :
<ul><li>The lighting in a room must <b>always</b> be controllable in some way</li><li>The glowing structures look very nice, but defeat the idea of hiding a structure / hiding yourself</li><li>Holding "attack" for 20 seconds, only affecting the health of a structure, is not that great (even if RT work that way)</li></ul>
For Marines :
<ul><li>Moving around in dark rooms adds to the atmosphere and overall game experience</li><li>Dropping in at a random spot to make a small base is part of the marine gameplay</li></ul>
For Devs :
<ul><li>Power packs defeat the purpose of power nodes, and empower marines too much</li><li>Dark rooms mean the visual details are lost, and it happens too often</li><li>Gameplay-wise, not being able to build in some places is unexpected, as no visual feedback is given</li><li>Too much switching between lights on and light off means the actual switch isn't as dramatic as it should be</li></ul>
That said, the proposed solution does not meet what I would expect from most angles. As aliens, we want to have rooms kept in the dark. As marines, we want them lit. As devs, you want people to see your work most of the time, and really be affected by the loss of lighting. Those are incompatible goals, since the aliens will always try to keep a room dark, the marines will always try to light them up, and as such, the switch will inevitably happen a lot. Something needs to be changed if we want everyone to be happy.
Maybe if a damaged power node would shut down, progressively, just *some* lights. And if completely destroyed, some lights would still stay on, but most of them be off. Some might sometimes flicker a bit. This would reflect ongoing damage to the power node, would give aliens dark spots to hide in a room, marines would get some light to see around and feel safer, and everyone can enjoy the graphical art and detail since some lights are there. It's pretty much a very dimmed environment, where aliens can hide, but a carefully looking marine will spot them.
Now, when do those light actually go completely off? Enter the infestation. A room with a power node completely destroyed and with infestation inside, would go pretty much pitch black as it is now. This is now clearly deep alien territory, and as such it should give them full advantage. As for the glowing structures, I would say the hive should glow, but the other structures should stay very, very low on the glow level (or even not glow at all in some cases). It adds some visual effect, but still enables structures to be hidden around.
On to power packs. Overpowered? Yes. Unbalancing? Yes. Why? Because they last forever. Give them 30 seconds of fuel. The commander can refuel it with an icon. This will require the commander's attention to work, and will then force a small base with power packs to be what it should always have been : a special, use-it-now base of operations. You can't put up a turret farm powered by a power pack if you need to cycle around and refuel it every 30 seconds, but you can very well build a small base with an armory or something and keep it working for the duration of a hive push. Power packs should be temporary solutions, rather than permanent installments. This is why they do not work right now.
As for the "why can't I make that building here?!" phenomena, there should be a visual feedback of the active power grid when placing down buildings. Every part of the map should be controlled by a power node, to make it simple. Failing that, zones should be able to be configured to act depending on multiple power nodes, so that if a corridor is dependent on the 2 power nodes from each rooms it joins, both of them need to be at least at 60%, or 40%, or whatever level you want to configure to also provide power to the corridor. This means a particular area linked by 3 nodes could ask for at least 2 of the 3 nodes to be at least at 50% health for power to be provided. It's more complicated, but provides a more natural and flexible feel to the map.
The power system as it is now seems to be good. If I was asked to answer the 4 problems listed in the document, I would do it like so :
<ol type='1'><li><b>Power packs are flawed</b> : Force them to become the temporary solution they should be.</li><li><b>Too much time is spent with rooms in powered-off mode</b> : Make it easier to get some kind of partial lighting back on.</li><li><b>There are places where the marines can’t build and it’s not clear why</b> : Provide more visual feedback. Make sure eventually, you can build anywhere.</li><li><b>The powered state of rooms changes back and forth a lot</b> : This is the basis of the game and the result of aliens wanting dark and marines wanting light. Changing this is very hard.</li></ol>
From what I can gather, here are the main points (with some of mine added)
For aliens :
<ul><li>The lighting in a room must <b>always</b> be controllable in some way</li><li>The glowing structures look very nice, but defeat the idea of hiding a structure / hiding yourself</li><li>Holding "attack" for 20 seconds, only affecting the health of a structure, is not that great (even if RT work that way)</li></ul>
For Marines :
<ul><li>Moving around in dark rooms adds to the atmosphere and overall game experience</li><li>Dropping in at a random spot to make a small base is part of the marine gameplay</li></ul>
For Devs :
<ul><li>Power packs defeat the purpose of power nodes, and empower marines too much</li><li>Dark rooms mean the visual details are lost, and it happens too often</li><li>Gameplay-wise, not being able to build in some places is unexpected, as no visual feedback is given</li><li>Too much switching between lights on and light off means the actual switch isn't as dramatic as it should be</li></ul>
That said, the proposed solution does not meet what I would expect from most angles. As aliens, we want to have rooms kept in the dark. As marines, we want them lit. As devs, you want people to see your work most of the time, and really be affected by the loss of lighting. Those are incompatible goals, since the aliens will always try to keep a room dark, the marines will always try to light them up, and as such, the switch will inevitably happen a lot. Something needs to be changed if we want everyone to be happy.
Maybe if a damaged power node would shut down, progressively, just *some* lights. And if completely destroyed, some lights would still stay on, but most of them be off. Some might sometimes flicker a bit. This would reflect ongoing damage to the power node, would give aliens dark spots to hide in a room, marines would get some light to see around and feel safer, and everyone can enjoy the graphical art and detail since some lights are there. It's pretty much a very dimmed environment, where aliens can hide, but a carefully looking marine will spot them.
Now, when do those light actually go completely off? Enter the infestation. A room with a power node completely destroyed and with infestation inside, would go pretty much pitch black as it is now. This is now clearly deep alien territory, and as such it should give them full advantage. As for the glowing structures, I would say the hive should glow, but the other structures should stay very, very low on the glow level (or even not glow at all in some cases). It adds some visual effect, but still enables structures to be hidden around.
On to power packs. Overpowered? Yes. Unbalancing? Yes. Why? Because they last forever. Give them 30 seconds of fuel. The commander can refuel it with an icon. This will require the commander's attention to work, and will then force a small base with power packs to be what it should always have been : a special, use-it-now base of operations. You can't put up a turret farm powered by a power pack if you need to cycle around and refuel it every 30 seconds, but you can very well build a small base with an armory or something and keep it working for the duration of a hive push. Power packs should be temporary solutions, rather than permanent installments. This is why they do not work right now.
As for the "why can't I make that building here?!" phenomena, there should be a visual feedback of the active power grid when placing down buildings. Every part of the map should be controlled by a power node, to make it simple. Failing that, zones should be able to be configured to act depending on multiple power nodes, so that if a corridor is dependent on the 2 power nodes from each rooms it joins, both of them need to be at least at 60%, or 40%, or whatever level you want to configure to also provide power to the corridor. This means a particular area linked by 3 nodes could ask for at least 2 of the 3 nodes to be at least at 50% health for power to be provided. It's more complicated, but provides a more natural and flexible feel to the map.
The power system as it is now seems to be good. If I was asked to answer the 4 problems listed in the document, I would do it like so :
<ol type='1'><li><b>Power packs are flawed</b> : Force them to become the temporary solution they should be.</li><li><b>Too much time is spent with rooms in powered-off mode</b> : Make it easier to get some kind of partial lighting back on.</li><li><b>There are places where the marines can’t build and it’s not clear why</b> : Provide more visual feedback. Make sure eventually, you can build anywhere.</li><li><b>The powered state of rooms changes back and forth a lot</b> : This is the basis of the game and the result of aliens wanting dark and marines wanting light. Changing this is very hard.</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this. Rooms should have 3 stages of lighting;
1. Neutral - dimmed and/or occasionally flickering lights: this represents the station in disrepair but still operable. Mostly lit but occasional flickering or dimness gives an edge to any combat fought here as aliens could hide but not TOO effectively.
2. Marines - full bright, with response from structures to the node to represent link (sort of techny glowiness [different from alien glowiness!]). Marines will feel comfortable here and intuitively feel this is controlled territory. This requires commander to place link and marines to 'secure it' - short build time but stops commander spamming them. Link can be destroyed -> causes short black out before emergency lights reactivate and gradually return to neutral state
3. Infested - these rooms will be much darker, with glowy bits from alien structures and randomly in the infestation. This form of darkness combined with unnaturally lighting will be unsettling to marines. The darkness and infestation will be an advantage to aliens who have alien sight.
That's basically how I read it. I don't know how it will ensure that the lights stay on for longer or make it more dramatic when power goes out.
Not quite right...
- The change will make it a little bit more clear what powernodes are and do for new players(if active more light and maybe these pulses to the structures that are powered), also new aliens don't get distracted by chewing unimportant powernodes behind the front-line(because inactive) instead of doing something useful.
- No powerpacks, no double triple or more backup powerpacks for super turtle marines. => protecting the one powernode suddenly gets that much more important.
- costing res, and beeing a requirement to build before a room gets power and reduction to only one per area(no powerpacks) means, you can give powernodes/nanogrid? some cool (powerfull ?) upgrades/features linked to it.
- lights, well depends what we ll get - dimmed? flicker? darkness with glowing alien structures? emergency lights? - not really clear on that what we ll get and if it changes something...
If you ask me - while i love atmospheric darkness, we shouldn't forget ns2 is not a single player game - its a competitive multiplayer fps.
Just dont overdo it...
Another issue, why would the aliens want to build structures when it beats their best weapon? That is visibility..
Macs will hardly help the marines in enlighting a room, and flashlights have a limited range, so skulks have a pretty free game..
1. after pp destroyed, turn on stadby energy systems
2. turn on standby-emergency sound effects?
Still means aliens don't need to mess with power nodes at the start, still means lighting style is preserved somewhat.
I would request that aliens can still mess with the lights by infesting a power node though, it seems a bit dodgy having aliens be stuck with the lights on unless the marines come and turn them off basically.
Perhaps the alien comm can drop a structure on the power node to produce effects? Further reinforcing the similarity between resource nodes and the power nodes?
Could just be jamming a cyst into the thing, or maybe it could be some sort of useful structure which needs a hard cap, maybe some sort of area control structure or defensive structure? Or maybe aliens can use infested nodes to keep their infestation alive? Like they use the electricity from the node rather than the hive's bioelectricity or something?
Add light switches!
Early game skulks can turn them off and marines can turn them back on!
Marines will want the lights on to make it easier to see if something is trying to chew/claw/spit/ram their faces off
Aliens will want it dark so they can hide better and set up the classic gank at the light switch.
Add power generators!
Does the same function as a powernode, but works like a turret factory.
You build one it powers your stuff in a radius.
If destroyed you cannot use your stuff.
You need to rebuild or maybe repaired to get power back
By coverting a complicated mechanic into smaller ones we have made the game massively easier to understand, as well as create new and interesting game play out of it. Marines have to be warry of dark rooms and light switches and aliens now have a clear target to focus when trying to clear out turtled Marines
Could just be jamming a cyst into the thing, or maybe it could be some sort of useful structure which needs a hard cap, maybe some sort of area control structure or defensive structure? Or maybe aliens can use infested nodes to keep their infestation alive? Like they use the electricity from the node rather than the hive's bioelectricity or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A role for the Gorge ? How about he can drop a structure in the socket that enable the cysts around to be connected even if there is no hive ?
It would need to be limited to a few cysts, like 3 connections or so. It could enable aliens to have outposts, however they would be relying on the socket, kill the socket structure and all cysts will go unconnected.
It would need to be limited to a few cysts, like 3 connections or so. It could enable aliens to have outposts, however they would be relying on the socket, kill the socket structure and all cysts will go unconnected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like the comm to be able to do it as well, but yeah you let a gorge jam a cyst into it to set up a little outpost, would give the gorges a little more autonomy and further support their role as being more mobile than the main hive.