<!--quoteo(post=1881734:date=Oct 24 2011, 06:41 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 24 2011, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree that there should be a power point for every location on the map and that power packs should be removed.
Make it so that when the power is taken out the lights only become dimmer. As the alien infestation spreads into a room, the lights become darker and darker. Alien infestation could also damage the power points even before the cage has been removed. This would mean that marines would need to repair the power nodes deep within alien territory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this idea, in place of emergency lighting. As the infestation advances, it gradually covers up the lights, making them dimmer and dimmer. This gradient of light intensity would make it very clear how deep you were into alien terriory.
<b>Border</b> -- The light is only slightly dimmer, but casts strange shadows (from the tendrils of the infestation just starting to grow over the lights)
<b>Midway</b> -- Lighting is a very dim, brownish green (from the light shining from inside the infestation)
<b>At the Hive</b> -- Pitch Black
This would create a sense of forboding in Marines as they advance towards the hive, the deepening shadows and fainter illumantion not only making them more vulnerable, but also indicating that they sure as hell aren't in Kansas anymore.
It also helps emphasize the threat of the infestation, which as of now I feel is more of just a decoration. When it's actually the <i>infestation itself</i> that is making rooms darker, it feels more like a malevolent entity out to get you.
Finally, it addresses Charlie's complaint about the emergency lighting hiding all the beautiful architecture of maps. Whereas of now <i>all</i> alien occupied rooms are very dark, and lit only by dim red light, with this infestation varient only the hive rooms would be extremely dark, with the outlying territories (the areas that swap sides frequently) would still be fairly bright.
As for the rest of the design document, I think you're making things more complicated than they need to be. Just set up a new rule that every area must have one (and only one)power node, and get rid of power packs -- as they are obviously flawed. That will eliminate any confusion as to where structures can be built, and if the absence of power packs makes the game unbalanced, give the power nodes more health, so that marines have more time to respond.
I'm not sure adding health and repair time to nodes will have enough effect. There's a limit to how high you can go, and it only gets more tedious the longer it takes. I think maybe the best way to slow down the rate the rooms change hands is to add a team resource cost to activate rooms. Marines could still repair node health, but it takes an investment from the commander to "activate" the node, and provide power to marine structures.
This makes activating rooms a calculated risk. And you may have to put it off for awhile to get some critical tech instead. Those are real delays that would prevent rooms from bouncing back and forth between aliens and marines. There'd need to be a balancing cost on the alien side though. Maybe the alien pustules could cost some team resources? Or, perhaps the alien commander could have a team resource cost to "infest" the power node just like the marine commander has the activation cost.
Rooms could stay normally lit most of the time (even with destroyed node), have a brief blackout on activated node destruction, have power for marine structures when activated (with some kind of visual effect for this), and have constant dark rooms when "infested" with whatever colored lighting effects look the best.
Aliens could need croach around the node to "infest" it, so that would leave a lot of neutral ground on the map with normal lighting. I'm not sure alien comms would pay just for the darkness though. Maybe resource nodes and tech points could be electrified when the power node is not "Infested", preventing those alien structures from being build there.
This could work thematically, if you think of a power node as more of a "switch box" and less as a power source. The room has power with or without it. Marines need it to route and manage power from the room into their ad-hoc structures. Aliens need to infest it in order to disrupt power flow in the room, make things dark and spooky, and turn off the electricity on the tech points and resource points.
Speaking of theme, this is making me think there is something wrong with the way nodes work as weak points. Imagine a huge alien attack, with some Onos involved. They rush into marine start... and start smashing up all the marine structures, right? Nope. They all jump on the node, that's the only structure that needs to be destroyed. The aliens can win without even really having to attack the marine command center. It just seems a little weird, in video game terms.
Maybe the command chair should switch into providing backup power for critical systems only. I am thinking the spawn portals and armory stays active, but comm sat, arms lab, factory, and all turrets power down. That would still gut the majority of marine defense (especially if they now face a fully upgraded alien team with no upgrades of their own). Maybe the comm chair can't build new structures while it's doing this, and once the MACs run out there will be no more repairs either. The aliens will win eventually if the marines can't get the main power back up (especially if node needs to be activated). This could lead to some tense last stands, where marines hold out just long enough to get their defenses back up.
Some might say the armory should power down too, but I believe it should stay up. It makes a marine defense possible, and it's the perfect time to spend all your res on weapons. That will run out eventually. Also, multiple armories don't add to the defense much and aliens can handle one armory. Another advantage of command chair backup power is that it gives you a reason to build a second command chair to reinforce your defense of a hive location. It even gives you a reason to build second tech structures at an alternate location, so you don't lose critical upgrades when the lights go out.
<!--quoteo(post=1881805:date=Oct 24 2011, 10:58 PM:name=Luxon5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luxon5 @ Oct 24 2011, 10:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure adding health and repair time to nodes will have enough effect. There's a limit to how high you can go, and it only gets more tedious the longer it takes. I think maybe the best way to slow down the rate the rooms change hands is to add a team resource cost to activate rooms. Marines could still repair node health, but it takes an investment from the commander to "activate" the node, and provide power to marine structures.
This makes activating rooms a calculated risk. And you may have to put it off for awhile to get some critical tech instead. Those are real delays that would prevent rooms from bouncing back and forth between aliens and marines. There'd need to be a balancing cost on the alien side though. Maybe the alien pustules could cost some team resources? Or, perhaps the alien commander could have a team resource cost to "infest" the power node just like the marine commander has the activation cost.
Rooms could stay normally lit most of the time (even with destroyed node), have a blackout on node destruction, have power for marine structures when activated (with some kind of visual effect for this), and have constant dark rooms when "infested" with whatever colored lighting effects look the best.
Aliens could need croach around the node to "infest" it, so that would leave a lot of neutral ground on the map with normal lighting. I'm not sure alien comms would pay just for the darkness though. Maybe resource nodes and tech points could be electrified when the power node is not "Infested", preventing those alien structures from being build there.
This could work thematically, if you think of a power node as more of a "switch box" and less as a power source. The room has power with or without it. Marines need it to route and manage power from the room into their ad-hoc structures. Aliens need to infest it in order to disrupt power flow in the room, make things dark and spooky, and turn off the electricity on the tech points and resource points.
Speaking of theme, this is making me think there is something wrong with the way nodes work as weak points. Imagine a huge alien attack, with some Onos involved. They rush into marine start... and start smashing up all the marine structures, right? Nope. They all jump on the node, that's the only structure that needs to be destroyed. The aliens can win without even really having to attack the marine command center. It just seems a little weird, in video game terms.
Maybe the command chair should switch into providing backup power for critical systems only. I am thinking the spawn portals and armory stays active, but comm sat, arms lab, factory, and all turrets power down. That would still gut the majority of marine defense (especially if they now face a fully upgraded alien team with no upgrades of their own). Maybe the comm chair can't build new structures while it's doing this, and once the MACs run out there will be no more repairs either. The aliens will win eventually if the marines can't get the main power back up (especially if node needs to be activated). This could lead to some tense last stands, where marines hold out just long enough to get their defenses back up.
Some might say the armory should power down too, but I believe it should stay up. It makes a marine defense possible, and it's the perfect time to spend all your res on weapons. That will run out eventually. Also, multiple armories don't add to the defense much and aliens can handle one armory. Another advantage of command chair backup power is that it gives you a reason to build a second command chair to reinforce your defense of a hive location. It even gives you a reason to build second tech structures at an alternate location, so you don't lose critical upgrades when the lights go out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really like those ideas. I'm a huge fan of dark spooky spaces being as prevalent as possible, but aside from that point of contention on the lighting, I agree with these thoughts completely.
<!--quoteo(post=1881805:date=Oct 24 2011, 11:58 PM:name=Luxon5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luxon5 @ Oct 24 2011, 11:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe the command chair should switch into providing backup power for critical systems only. I am thinking the spawn portals and armory stays active, but comm sat, arms lab, factory, and all turrets power down. That would still gut the majority of marine defense (especially if they now face a fully upgraded alien team with no upgrades of their own). Maybe the comm chair can't build new structures while it's doing this, and once the MACs run out there will be no more repairs either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cool concept.
I really like how it makes command stations more useful than just denying tech points to aliens.
I think the red emergency lighting currently in the game should be moved to <i>only</i> be used when this "emergency power" mode comes on. It really sells the whole idea of the Marine base operating on minimal power -- like the command station shut off the lights in order to reroute that energy to power the portals and armories.
Power nodes are boring. Killing them and repairing them, BORING, and god no please don't make it take even longer to kill or repair...
The sudden loss of power, though, is NOT boring. It's<b> awesome</b>. The fight over power is cool. It's fun. I like fun. So the idea of power is good. It's the mechanics of using power nodes that kinda blows.
<b>IMO, the solution is: make power nodes invulnerable. If the node is covered by *connected* infestation, the power node blows out (takes 100% damage instantly). It can only be repaired after the infestation is cleared, but is repaired really fast. </b>
That's it. Entire mechanic done and done. Simple.
You can launch a base assault to cover your Gorges in to bring the infestation along - meaning that even in smallish games the power can be cut pretty fast by a Gorge or two and / or an alien comm with a stock of power. But even a single marine can potentially cut the connection by nailing a cyst back out of the fight, and the marines can get the power up fast if they just kill the nearest cyst and do a couple of seconds of repair. The focus of the battle isn't all about a single point, there's a lot more to it.
---
Wierdness follows:
Going on from there, I'd really like to see the power nodes being somewhat outside of the area they cover. Sorta like a power router. That might give mappers some interesting options - imagine if in the usual map, there was no node in Marine Start at all - but if <b>both</b> FC's and Vent's power was cut, that'd cut power to the entire section. Well ok, perhaps not quite like that, since the map would need a lot of re-working (two choke points = bad - so you'd need perhaps some alternate route to Marine Start - or shift the FC power node into the lockable door area), but something similar. What if there was a generator room or two, and cuts there might knock out power to all sorts of other sections? That provides one more focus of strategy: power is not simply a function of an assault on a location, something that's there anyway. It's a separate battle altogether...
I've written a fair number of posts about ideas for implementing DI and the power node system. I think 3 lighting states for each room are critical for the DI and the power node system to work in a interesting and intuitive manner.
1) Stand By - This would be the default state of the lights at game start. Dimmer than the current default set with some darker spots here and there. This is a bit spooky, but not yet alien looking. It's important to have the majority of the map is a neutral state at the beginning of the match. I would think of the lighting of NS1 maps for guidance here. There are a few dark spots around a room, but it is easy to see the space and navigate as a marine.
2) Powered Up - This is the current default at map start. Still are some dark corners, but generally open spaces are well light up.
3) Critical Failure - This is mostly dark with some flickering and dramatic lighting in a few areas. When infestation and kharaa structures are built, nice dim glows help sketch out a very alien-looking space around the obviously malfunctioning power of the area.
The tricky part is determining how these 3 states are enacted in the game. Number 1 is easy, it's the default setting. If there is no transceiver socketed by the marines and no infestation, it is the one that is in effect. Number 2 comes into effect once the marines build the transceiver in the socket for that area/room. Number 3 is what happens when infestation is in effect over the power-node socket. This seems pretty straight-forward, intuitive and elegant.
But wait! What happens if a built socket is subsequently covered by infestation? or a transceiver is built in a powernode socket that already covered by infestation? Ah, these edge cases are interesting! So, my idea would be to have the power node take damage over time much like a disconnected cyst would. This would provide the opportunity for ninja-building in a room that is mostly infested. You would still need un-infested space to actually build marine structures. This would give an incentive to infest areas that marines might use in a ninja-build push, requiring the marines to kill a cyst to be able to build. The killing of the cyst would of course alert the kharaa about the sneak attack.
The other part of the power node system that was once mentioned in dev posts long ago was the power node network. The idea seemed to be that the power node system would work as a network of linked areas. The comm station was to act like a generator that supplies power to adjacent power node transceivers that then can propagate that power to their adjacent areas. This was supposed to allow for the aliens to cut the power grid by attacking a powernode in the middle of the network to shut off power to a distant expansion. It also would be a great incentive for marines to have multiple comm stations to act as backup generators for sections of the power grid. With 2 comm stations connected to a power grid it is more difficult for the aliens to isolate a section and cause the power to shut off. The dev posts I remember mentioned the lights of the vunerable grid section flickering when the connecting powernode was attacked. This system was very similar in scope to the cyst network, but with fixed node locations and linking of areas.
Is this system of power grid completely abandoned or has it just not been polished to that extent yet? I can see that requiring linked powernodes would certainly limit the current ninja capabilities of setting up an outpost far from a comm station. I also see that multiple comm stations currently have little value to marines strategically. I think the power grid would bring back using multiple comm stations as a required step in a successful marine game.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited October 2011
I happy to hear that the power in every room will now be up for grabs (been waiting for this change). Now the whole "territorial" aspect of the game can really flourish. Many of the ideas are pretty good, but I feel some things should be modified and enhanced. I've color coded them since I can only have so many quotes in a reply apparantly.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #1: Power packs are flawed: wall-mounted power points are there to always allow the aliens to fight a room full of sentries and marine structures. Power points can be built everywhere and redundantly, leading to problems where aliens can’t attack a very emplaced marine team.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed. Power packs need to be removed so the actual wall mounted power nodes become much more important.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #2: Too much time is spent with rooms in powered-off mode, meaning the visual look is often lost.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed. This is how it should work:
1) Aliens destroy the wall mounted power node. The lights immediately cut output by 60% and are running on backup power. Like having a generator kick on in real life, the switch over is immediate.
2) After a set amount of time, the power goes black completely. The amount of time you have before you lose backup power is determined by the amount of structures needing power in the room. Marine commanders should be able to shut the power down of uneeded structures to give themselves more time if they're having trouble restoring full power. The "power antennas" on the structures will give a quick visual cue to marines and commanders which structures are on or shut down.
3) After the backup power is exhausted, the lights go black. Currently, the texture lights on many of your room props are still "on" when the lights go black:
This should be changed if possible so its pitch black except for the individual marine armor lights, MACs, and ARCs since they have their own batteries. Marines will use flashlights which enhances the atmosphere greatly.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #3: There are places where the marines can’t build and it’s not clear why. Ie, tram tunnel, Crevice, Crossroads and areas near Alien Start.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>100% agreed. I hear newer players ask that question all the time in areas like Crossroads. Having the whole map under the sway of the powergrid should change this.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #4: The powered state of rooms changes back and forth a lot, removing some of the drama and special nature of those moments.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed. My solution presented above will help significantly with that. I would ditch the red emergency lighting entirely and switch over to dimmed backup lighting and associated backup power mechanic. As the backup power level continues to drop and the marines aren't able to get the power back up due to alien attacks, the tension keeps getting higher and higher until the power turns off completely and the marines are shrowded in darkness. Sounds pretty cinematic to me.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Remove power packs and change power points to a “socket†model<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Again, its a good thing power packs are being removed.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Put power point sockets all over the map, including alien areas. Every part of the map should be covered by exactly one power point.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes. Although, starting alien hives\immediate areas should start with their power in the "dimmed" setting. You could explain this lore wise due to the infestation presence affecting the power network. As before, it will go black and the colors of the alien fauna will change the look of the room.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Power points should be placed where they’re vulnerable from fire outside of rooms. They are placed in an opposite way of tech points: they should be somewhat snipable.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Probably a good idea. You don't want them to be TOO entrenched in the room so aliens don't have a chance to take them out.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Power points are redesigned to have a “cage†protecting them. Marines can break off the cage by +using it: it falls to the ground and disappears.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>This may work well in the early game. Although I would change it so that if alien infestation (connected to hive) grows over it, it will break off and start taking damage. Alien start will automatically have it pop off shortly after round start due to the hive infestation growing over it and damaging it. This will reinforce to new players that infestation is the counter to the marine's power. If infestation is still covering the power node once destroyed and on backup power, it will sap backup power until it is zero. Marines have a priority to keep the node clear of infestation while trying to retake it.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->At the same time, the marine sticks some small “transmitter†which hijacks some of the power and broadcasts it out into the room, which will power marines structures. Every 5 seconds, it pulses with a graphical effect, and the structures “respondâ€, showing that they are linked up.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Sounds good. Enabling the marine commander to switch off buildings will compliment this mechanic when the power is on backup.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Power points are invulnerable to damage until the cage has been removed. Once removed, they can be damaged normally and work the way they currently do.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed but again, (hive connected) alien infestation should pop them off. This means the early game will focus less on immediately destroying power nodes, and instead aliens jockeying for general map control and preventing marines from getting res or defending alien res from pressure teams.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- So there are now three powered states:
1. Initial: The cage is over the power node and the room looks “normalâ€.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->2. Powered: The cage is knocked off, the power node has the transponder attached and active. The room looks mostly normal, but we’ll add some extra energy or electricity effects.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes. Antennas on structures will pulse green or something like that.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->3. Destroyed: The lights and power go out, totally black, for a bit. After a time, the emergency lights come back on, but instead of being red, the lights keep their current color,although much more dimmed. Alternatively, the lights will be totally black.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>This should be modified. The lights go 60% dim or so, but structures stay on but slowly suck the backup power down to zero. The comm can shut buildings down to conserve backup power to buy more time. Once the backup power is exhausted, the lights go 100% black.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- The alien structures will all give off colored lights. So built up alien rooms will be glowing beautifully, like this:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Alien fauna should give off an alien colored hue. The lighting should completely transform the room so it looks truly alien. Think of that scene from the abyss where he flies through the underwater alien city:
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- MACs and ARCs will have working lights attached them, as well as Scanner Sweep.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes. Scanner sweep should eventually be redone so it moves along the walls\floor\ceiling of the area being scanned. Temporarily lighting up the room where its scanning. You guys talked about an effect like that back when you had that video prototyping the alien flashlight.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- If rooms change hands too often, increase repair time and health each time it is repaired.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Potential hidden modifiers. Those are things to avoid unless its made visually obvious that its going to be less efficient each time its repaired. Could play around with it but I think the ideas above will help in that regard.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#9932CC--><span style="color:#9932CC"><!--/coloro-->Final thoughts due to these changes\modifications:
It will become more rare for marines to lose power completely unless aliens are really pushing hard and preventing them from restoring full power. Going to immediate backup power is also exciting since the marine commander now has to juggle power resources and decide which buildings he should disable to buy some more time. This mechanic also extends the existing functionality of being able to turn PGs off, and reinforces that marines need power to function. Tension rises as marines struggle to repair the power node against coordinated alien attacks, and as the marine comm attempts to keep the power on while having to decide which structures are critical to the effort. For example: Should I disable the IP, armory, and observatory in order to keep the turrets online, or disable the turrets which saves a lot of power and be able to keep the more critical structures like the armory\IP on instead?
An additional mechanic to expand this concept is having command stations at tech points provide this limited backup power to the power grid that affects nearby hallways\rooms. So a skulk may kill the power socket in the nearby hallway, but if you have a command station in that grid's tech point, it won't go pitch black and will receive backup power. Alien infestation over these power sockets will sap the backup power of your comm station in addition to the power drain coming from existing powered-on structures.
If marines are unable to restore power, the aliens will move in with infestation and alien fauna and start to inhabit the pitch black room, which in turn, transforms its look into something completely alien and organic. Ideally, alien fauna\infestation should be pretty and colorful to look at instead of the standard orange\red tones. Greens, blues, purples, and others along with bio-luminescence should be present. Getting rid of the (IMO) ugly and mandatory red emergency lighting will help rooms feel more organically lit depending on where structures are placed and the amount of infestation in the room.
It would be beneficial to give mappers some middle ground in how their rooms will be lit when in the "dimmed emergency power" stage, so the problems of tripods staying lit and the like will be resolved.</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I do agree on one thing, that for a commander that plays in an unknown map it's sometimes very hard to know if a structure he will place will have power or not. Perhaps a warning should be shown when the structure won't have power?
I also learned that the powernodes are to easy as a back up, as commander you know tend to have the habbit to "dig in" in small corners of the map with 4 sentrys, a powernode and a phase gate. You then don't really care if the power is cut.
However I also don't like the idea that marines wouldn't have any counter to cutting the power. Perhaps powerpacks that can only power the most vital structures such as IP's and Phase Gates, but not very intuïtieve? You could also give a limited range of structures an upgrade so they can have their own powerpack, attached to them, for a price ofc. Like IP's for example. For the commander this can be intuitive, and for aliens aswell when you provide a visual change.
One more thing about the screenshot: it actually looks unrealistic and weird, the reason for me saying is that there are alot of big white lights in the room, and you would think they light up at least a little bit of the wall and air surounding them but instead they are just white bumps in a black room, that just doesn't look realistic.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However I also don't like the idea that marines wouldn't have any counter to cutting the power. Perhaps powerpacks that can only power the most vital structures such as IP's and Phase Gates, but not very intuïtieve? You could also give a limited range of structures an upgrade so they can have their own powerpack, attached to them, for a price ofc. Like IP's for example. For the commander this can be intuitive, and for aliens aswell when you provide a visual change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about this:
1) The "limited backup power" mechanic from my post only applies to tech point rooms with command stations built on them. Command stations inject backup power into the rooms power-grid for a finite time. Infestation that actively covers the power node saps this backup power.
2) Rooms\hallways nearby a tech point room can have their power blacked out entirely when destroyed. If a command station is built in the tech spot, backup power is provided for all nearby hallways\rooms.
3) If infestation covers any of the power sockets in any of the hallways\nearby rooms, it will sap the backup power of the command station back at the tech point.
Now marines actually have a use for tech points again, but it isn't as critical as it is for aliens to hold tech points.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1881821:date=Oct 24 2011, 09:42 PM:name=GeneralBowser)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeneralBowser @ Oct 24 2011, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However I also don't like the idea that marines wouldn't have any counter to cutting the power. Perhaps powerpacks that can only power the most vital structures such as IP's and Phase Gates, but not very intuïtieve? You could also give a limited range of structures an upgrade so they can have their own powerpack, attached to them, for a price ofc. Like IP's for example. For the commander this can be intuitive, and for aliens aswell when you provide a visual change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps Marines could start using hand operated dynamos for emergency power! :P
I can see the sudden loss of power can be frustrating for Marines. Allowing Power Packs to use their stored energy sounds like a great idea to me (with each building in the area draining it faster).
<!--quoteo(post=1881821:date=Oct 24 2011, 09:42 PM:name=GeneralBowser)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeneralBowser @ Oct 24 2011, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One more thing about the screenshot: it actually looks unrealistic and weird, the reason for me saying is that there are alot of big white lights in the room, and you would think they light up at least a little bit of the wall and air surounding them but instead they are just white bumps in a black room, that just doesn't look realistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean aeroripper's screenshot? I agree that the white glow from the lights could be toned down a bit. Apart from that, that is very close to how real fluorescent lights look right after they are switched off.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One more thing about the screenshot: it actually looks unrealistic and weird, the reason for me saying is that there are alot of big white lights in the room, and you would think they light up at least a little bit of the wall and air surounding them but instead they are just white bumps in a black room, that just doesn't look realistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is how they have looked for a long time when the power goes pitch black for a few seconds. It looks weird and as I suggested, they should go out completely.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You mean aeroripper's screenshot? I agree that the white glow from the lights could be toned down a bit. Apart from that, that is very close to how real fluorescent lights look right after they are switched off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're texture lights and remain on all the time. Not sure if its possible to switch their lighting into an off state, but if a room goes pitch black, they should also go off since the power has been cut.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #2: Too much time is spent with rooms in powered-off mode, meaning the visual look is often lost<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed. This is how it should work:
1) Aliens destroy the wall mounted power node. The lights immediately cut output by 60% and are running on backup power. Like having a generator kick on in real life, the switch over is immediate</b>.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There should be some additional audio/visual cues to back this up, like warning lights flashing and the hum of the generator kicking in. Would make it clearer what's going on, epecially to new players, and would be very noticeable to players who don't have speakers on or are distracted that something very bad is going on at base and they need to get there pronto.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>2) After a set amount of time, the power goes black completely. The amount of time you have before you lose backup power is determined by the amount of structures needing power in the room. Marine commanders should be able to shut the power down of uneeded structures to give themselves more time if they're having trouble restoring full power. The "power antennas" on the structures will give a quick visual cue to marines and commanders which structures are on or shut down.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the lights should gradually fade to black (after the initial instant cut of 60% luminosity when the power node was destroyed). This would provide a visual indication of how much power is left, in addition to adding to the tension of the mad rush to restore power. This would also be useful in places where there were no marine structures -- like near an alien hive. After the power node was knocked out there by the infestation, the lights would only very slowly go out. This would provide a clear visual gradient of both how long the aliens had occupied a room and also of how deep you were in alien territory. Something like:
<b>Border</b> -- The light is only slightly dimmer
<b>Midway</b> -- Lighting is a very dim
<b>At the Hive</b> -- Pitch Black
As of right now, I feel the transitions between alien and marine held areas are too abrupt -- the contested middle ground needs to be shown visually.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> <b>- The alien structures will all give off colored lights. So built up alien rooms will be glowing beautifully, like this:</b> <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Alien fauna should give off an alien colored hue. The lighting should completely transform the room so it looks truly alien. Think of that scene from the abyss where he flies through the underwater alien city:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UWE mentioned adding mist to the alien held areas -- the hive in particular was supposed to emit mist (at 4:00 in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHZ1SFsOvR8&feature=channel_video_title" target="_blank">this youtube vid</a>). Mist would give those areas an especially eerie and ethereal vibe. I highly recommend that this be considered again.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--> - MACs and ARCs will have working lights attached them, as well as Scanner Sweep.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> </b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes. Scanner sweep should eventually be redone so it moves along the walls\floor\ceiling of the area being scanned. Temporarily lighting up the room where its scanning. You guys talked about an effect like that back when you had that video prototyping the alien flashlight.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's referring to <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0txpeJUsbCw" target="_blank">this video on youtube</a>, at 3:21. And that is an absolute bad ass effect. PLEASE use that for scanner sweep.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b> <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->- If rooms change hands too often, increase repair time and health each time it is repaired.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Potential hidden modifiers. Those are things to avoid unless its made visually obvious that its going to be less efficient each time its repaired. Could play around with it but I think the ideas above will help in that regard.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When a power node is repaired, have it switched to a new model showing how it's all ghetto-rigged up -- an impromptu repair in the field isn't going to look too pretty, and it shows players that it has low health. If it's destroyed and repaired a second time, add sparks or something coming out of it, to show it is in really bad shape. Just progressive damage each time you repair it.
<!--quoteo(post=1881824:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:52 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about this:
1) The "limited backup power" mechanic from my post only applies to tech point rooms with command stations built on them. Command stations inject backup power into the rooms power-grid for a finite time. Infestation that actively covers the power node saps this backup power.
2) Rooms\hallways nearby a tech point room can have their power blacked out entirely when destroyed. If a command station is built in the tech spot, backup power is provided for all nearby hallways\rooms.
3) If infestation covers any of the power sockets in this part of the grid, it saps the backup power of the command station back at the tech point.
Now marines actually have a use for tech points again, but it isn't as critical as it is for aliens to hold tech points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+5. Marines need to have a good reason to build additional command centers. Its <i>extremely</i> odd that Marines so rarely use the tech points that <i>they built for themselves</i>.
<!--quoteo(post=1881827:date=Oct 25 2011, 06:19 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 06:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They're texture lights and remain on all the time. Not sure if its possible to switch their lighting into an off state, but if a room goes pitch black, they should also go off since the power has been cut.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, we would do this is we could, but currently we aren't able to dynamically turn off the textures on the lights, as well as textures for computer screens, when the power goes off. Eventually we will be able to control that, as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1881769:date=Oct 25 2011, 02:10 AM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Oct 25 2011, 02:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881769"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea of having power points invulnerable until marines first try to use them is an absolutely great idea. Would eliminate all the early dark rooms, and also stop people from chomping on them during the first 2 minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spot on.
The advantages that Aliens have in T1 across the map because of dark rooms is insane. Not allowing these nodes (except AS I suppose) to be used untill Marines 'use' them would solve so many early game balance issues.
QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:52 AM) How about this:
1) The "limited backup power" mechanic from my post only applies to tech point rooms with command stations built on them. Command stations inject backup power into the rooms power-grid for a finite time. Infestation that actively covers the power node saps this backup power.
2) Rooms\hallways nearby a tech point room can have their power blacked out entirely when destroyed. If a command station is built in the tech spot, backup power is provided for all nearby hallways\rooms.
3) If infestation covers any of the power sockets in this part of the grid, it saps the backup power of the command station back at the tech point.
Now marines actually have a use for tech points again, but it isn't as critical as it is for aliens to hold tech points.
Sorry in advance if any of this has been said, didn't have time to read the whole thread.
The proposed changes are rather complicated with lots of different rules, it's not exactly going to help making it easy to learn. Also you'll get a new problem with the proposed solution, which is Aliens will not be able to turn off the power in their hives until marines come and lower the cage for them. This seems a bit strange to me, and the whole design feels a bit abritary (i.e. aiming too much to solve perceviced problems).
With regards to the problems outlined and a new proposed solution: #4 - I'm not sure is really a problem, but you could add a forcefield (nice and obvious) over newly repaired nodes, and prevent newly destroyed nodes from being repairable (with feedback that it isn't if you try). This would be much easier to see for the player than hidden variables changing the health of the node.
#3 - This is really just a map design issue, add more power nodes, or link them to existing areas, we don't need to go changing the game mechanics.
#2 - You could just change the lighting when a node is destroyed, Have it be pulsing red to begin with (say 30 seconds) for the awesome factor, then switch to standard lighting but dimmed and faintly pulsing (you could alter how bright the power-off lighgint was by the amount of / lack of alien structures). This doesn't completely fix this problem, but I think you have something unique with areas of different control being obviously lit differently and it will hurt the feel of the game if it's changed too much.
#1 - The cool down on destroyed nodes will help the statemate situation. You could require power-pack to be linked (or literately placed into) a repairable (but broken power node), this way they could be a quicker way of repairing nodes (ideally a marine could carry one, rather than it being a place-able bulding, but have to attach it to the node, I can see some hilarious runs to attach the pack) but wouldn't act as immediate kick in back-ups.
I do agree that the lights off alien hive shot is lovely.
These have been addressed, but it's good that you bring them up as they are some of the more significant parts. I was as skeptical as you are until they were addressed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also you'll get a new problem with the proposed solution, which is Aliens will not be able to turn off the power in their hives until marines come and lower the cage for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Infestation destroys cages and then the power nodes themselves.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#4 - I'm not sure is really a problem, but you could add a forcefield (nice and obvious) over newly repaired nodes, and prevent newly destroyed nodes from being repairable (with feedback that it isn't if you try). This would be much easier to see for the player than hidden variables changing the health of the node.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suggested showing the node looking more and more damaged after each repair (just like a shirt looks more rinkydink the more patches you add to it), but I also like your idea of adding some kind of cooldown time before it can be repaired. You could add a HUD icon showing the cool down left before the node could be repaired.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#3 - This is really just a map design issue, add more power nodes, or link them to existing areas, we don't need to go changing the game mechanics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Every room will now have a single power node.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#2 - You could just change the lighting when a node is destroyed, Have it be pulsing red to begin with (say 30 seconds) for the awesome factor, then switch to standard lighting but dimmed and faintly pulsing (you could alter how bright the power-off lighgint was by the amount of / lack of alien structures). This doesn't completely fix this problem, but I think you have something unique with areas of different control being obviously lit differently and it will hurt the feel of the game if it's changed too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aeroripper's idea was to have the lighting dim by 60% when a node is destroyed. Then, marines have a limited amount of time (depending on the number of structures in the room -- commander can turn off structures to gain more time) to repair the node, or the lights go completely to black and all structures go offline.
------------------
I have to say, I really hated this idea when I first heard it, but now I'm getting kind of excited about it. Like Cygone said, it can help make the game more balanced in early game, it makes power nodes have a significant and strategic purpose -- as opposed to just a nuisance, and it makes additional command centers relevant. It needs a bit more polishing, certainly, but I think the game could be a great deal more entertaining and thrilling if it is properly implemented.
Commander can rebuild the cage, to keep the room powered but not allow any buildings to function. In case you want to withdraw from a room but make it easier to take back.
Alien infestation can infest a caged node so that the marines have to destroy the infestation before they can take the cage off, giving both teams a way to secure uncontested nodes. Otherwise I worry that caged nodes would be a massive liability for aliens.
Otherwise it sounds like a fairly good system, keeps the map looking like it's supposed to, prevents aliens from having to chomp all the starting nodes, makes the power node more useful for gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1881809:date=Oct 25 2011, 05:27 AM:name=SmellyTerror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmellyTerror @ Oct 25 2011, 05:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881809"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Power nodes are boring. Killing them and repairing them, BORING, and god no please don't make it take even longer to kill or repair...
The sudden loss of power, though, is NOT boring. It's<b> awesome</b>. The fight over power is cool. It's fun. I like fun. So the idea of power is good. It's the mechanics of using power nodes that kinda blows.
<b>IMO, the solution is: make power nodes invulnerable. If the node is covered by *connected* infestation, the power node blows out (takes 100% damage instantly). It can only be repaired after the infestation is cleared, but is repaired really fast. </b>
That's it. Entire mechanic done and done. Simple.
You can launch a base assault to cover your Gorges in to bring the infestation along - meaning that even in smallish games the power can be cut pretty fast by a Gorge or two and / or an alien comm with a stock of power. But even a single marine can potentially cut the connection by nailing a cyst back out of the fight, and the marines can get the power up fast if they just kill the nearest cyst and do a couple of seconds of repair. The focus of the battle isn't all about a single point, there's a lot more to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>You speak the truth !</b> And it gives a more important role to the infestation, the gorge and the alien commander.
<!--quoteo(post=1881848:date=Oct 25 2011, 05:43 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 25 2011, 05:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881848"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd make two changes.
Commander can rebuild the cage, to keep the room powered but not allow any buildings to function. In case you want to withdraw from a room but make it easier to take back.
Alien infestation can infest a caged node so that the marines have to destroy the infestation before they can take the cage off, giving both teams a way to secure uncontested nodes. Otherwise I worry that caged nodes would be a massive liability for aliens.
Otherwise it sounds like a fairly good system, keeps the map looking like it's supposed to, prevents aliens from having to chomp all the starting nodes, makes the power node more useful for gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are some excellent suggestions.
Rebuilding the cage needs some not insignificant time/resource costs.
Infestation seeping into caged powernodes and sealing them off also has great flavour. It's like a microcosom of the game itself -- an inexorable tide of invading organisms flooding into secured facilities, threatening to snuff out all that's inside.
all i know is if the cages over power points gets implemented i will probably stop playing ns2 as it will no longer be as much fun. i like some of the other suggestions others have said but transponders and invulnerable power nodes come on that is asking for greifing really badly.
how the power system is now is fine. yes some tweaks need to be done to it. but to the extent that you said might as well remove the power nodes again and forget about the power grid. as it will make it tedious and aliens wont be too happy about not being able to take down power in the rooms anymore.
If you have to constantly worry about several things being broken destroyed or something going wrong it makes a game less fun one should not have to worry about so many things when all someone wants to do is shoot aliens and play a game!!! you guys are getting ahead of your selves as adding more things that can break gameplay and make people have to fix it in order to keep playing makes the experience that much more tedious and less exciting. I thought you wanted to make the game more simple so someone can just pickup the game and play not have to know all of these rules for what has to be maintained or kept working so you can play.
Think about it from the perspective of how easy upkeep will be for players and not how the game will look if the lights go out.
<!--quoteo(post=1881809:date=Oct 24 2011, 11:27 PM:name=SmellyTerror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmellyTerror @ Oct 24 2011, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881809"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>IMO, the solution is: make power nodes invulnerable. If the node is covered by *connected* infestation, the power node blows out (takes 100% damage instantly). It can only be repaired after the infestation is cleared, but is repaired really fast. </b>
That's it. Entire mechanic done and done. Simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT. The simplest solution is usually the best. The more complicated UWE makes power nodes, the less intuitive it will be, especially to new players. Aliens should be rewarded for expanding into rooms (using infestation), which should result in a lack of power. The spreading lack of power will add a creepy vibe to the map instead of random rooms being powered down. When a marine sees that lights are out, he knows that an alien presence is near. The visuals reinforce the gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1881884:date=Oct 25 2011, 02:02 PM:name=Egad!)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Egad! @ Oct 25 2011, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881884"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These are some excellent suggestions.
Rebuilding the cage needs some not insignificant time/resource costs.
Infestation seeping into caged powernodes and sealing them off also has great flavour. It's like a microcosom of the game itself -- an inexorable tide of invading organisms flooding into secured facilities, threatening to snuff out all that's inside.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I was thinking maybe it'd be kind of expensive, as you're making this alien-proof metal mesh (maybe saying the mesh is electrified or something to justify why aliens can't break it?) but it'd be worth doing if you're in a position to make a controlled withdrawal. You could get some of the cash back if you removed the mesh afterwards as well, to encourage retaking the room.
The infested nodes could also maybe mess with the lights a bit, like make them dim a little but not quite as much as if the node was destroyed.
SmellyTerror certainly has a nice simple solution. It doesn't seem to address the Flayra's concern about powernodes changing hands too often and too quickly. I'm not convinced that areas changing hands quickly and often is really that bad.
I also think giving comm stations a power grid role is a good change to make having more than one important for the marines. At the moment though, having a more resilient marine power grid seems like it will only increase the stalemate problems. This might not be an issue once the Onos is added in however. I like the idea of a comm station being able to power a limited number of structures even when a power node is offline. I think this should be limited to IPs, armories and perhaps phasegates. I also think it should only power a limited # of structures (probably 3-4). If a limited # of structure power is set, it would allow comms to decide what is the most important structures to keep online during a tense situation.
I'm not too excited by time-limits on power for structures like some of the backup-power ideas that have been mentioned. Players expect things to either be powered or not powered. Having power run out after a time-limit is reached seems really arbitrary from the POV of a player in the field.
<!--quoteo(post=1881824:date=Oct 25 2011, 07:52 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 07:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about this:
1) The "limited backup power" mechanic from my post only applies to tech point rooms with command stations built on them. Command stations inject backup power into the rooms power-grid for a finite time. Infestation that actively covers the power node saps this backup power.
2) Rooms\hallways nearby a tech point room can have their power blacked out entirely when destroyed. If a command station is built in the tech spot, backup power is provided for all nearby hallways\rooms.
3) If infestation covers any of the power sockets in any of the hallways\nearby rooms, it will sap the backup power of the command station back at the tech point.
Now marines actually have a use for tech points again, but it isn't as critical as it is for aliens to hold tech points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I like this, it has potential and would give hive rooms a purpose again for marines, perhaps the structures could slowly start to lose power, once it is cut, starting with for example sentry's and then more and more buildings "blank out", until after 2-3 minutes all of them are dead, ending with the IP's obviously.
<!--quoteo(post=1881901:date=Oct 25 2011, 04:14 PM:name=hf_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hf_ @ Oct 25 2011, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->QFT. The simplest solution is usually the best. The more complicated UWE makes power nodes, the less intuitive it will be, especially to new players. Aliens should be rewarded for expanding into rooms (using infestation), which should result in a lack of power. The spreading lack of power will add a creepy vibe to the map instead of random rooms being powered down. When a marine sees that lights are out, he knows that an alien presence is near. The visuals reinforce the gameplay.
Simple solution, great solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is actually a very poor "solution" that will create more problems. Anyone who has played commander knows it's very easy to get infestation to any room as long as you save up some energy. So that includes hive rooms, and most importantly marine start. You can get there even faster with the help of a gorge.
Although I am def in favor of infestation being able to damage powernodes, but I would say the speed shouldn't be faster then that of a skulk.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Why not just scrap the power nodes altogether and just stick with power packs? Make them available from the beginning, drop their cost significantly (e.g 2.5 TRes) and up their health a bit.
1. The map lighting stays the same as the mapper intended 2. Which room is/isn't powered is pretty clear (i.e. is there a power pack nearby?)
<!--quoteo(post=1881919:date=Oct 25 2011, 11:22 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Oct 25 2011, 11:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881919"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not just scrap the power nodes altogether and just stick with power packs? Make them available from the beginning, drop their cost significantly (e.g 2.5 TRes) and up their health a bit.
1. The map lighting stays the same as the mapper intended 2. Which room is/isn't powered is pretty clear (i.e. is there a power pack nearby?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because that only encourages power-pack spam?
So will I still be able to place sneaky PGs in alien territory, if this change makes it into the game? Cause I love my sneaky PGs. I will be very sad if they go away :(
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not too excited by time-limits on power for structures like some of the backup-power ideas that have been mentioned. Players expect things to either be powered or not powered. Having power run out after a time-limit is reached seems really arbitrary from the POV of a player in the field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't necessarily just be a "countdown" till zero. Maybe a power bar is drawn on the marine hud that decreases as backup power is drained. It would be obvious to all players in that part of the grid what the level of backup power was and how quickly it was getting drained.
<!--quoteo(post=1881923:date=Oct 25 2011, 11:38 AM:name=Broseidon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Broseidon @ Oct 25 2011, 11:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881923"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So will I still be able to place sneaky PGs in alien territory, if this change makes it into the game? Cause I love my sneaky PGs. I will be very sad if they go away :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure it's all fun on the Marine side, but it's kind of a huge bs pain for Kharaa to suddenly find a never-ending wave of marines instantly teleporting to their hives and setting up turrets in what is supposed to be area under their control.
Comments
Make it so that when the power is taken out the lights only become dimmer. As the alien infestation spreads into a room, the lights become darker and darker. Alien infestation could also damage the power points even before the cage has been removed. This would mean that marines would need to repair the power nodes deep within alien territory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this idea, in place of emergency lighting. As the infestation advances, it gradually covers up the lights, making them dimmer and dimmer. This gradient of light intensity would make it very clear how deep you were into alien terriory.
<b>Border</b> -- The light is only slightly dimmer, but casts strange shadows (from the tendrils of the infestation just starting to grow over the lights)
<b>Midway</b> -- Lighting is a very dim, brownish green (from the light shining from inside the infestation)
<b>At the Hive</b> -- Pitch Black
This would create a sense of forboding in Marines as they advance towards the hive, the deepening shadows and fainter illumantion not only making them more vulnerable, but also indicating that they sure as hell aren't in Kansas anymore.
It also helps emphasize the threat of the infestation, which as of now I feel is more of just a decoration. When it's actually the <i>infestation itself</i> that is making rooms darker, it feels more like a malevolent entity out to get you.
Finally, it addresses Charlie's complaint about the emergency lighting hiding all the beautiful architecture of maps. Whereas of now <i>all</i> alien occupied rooms are very dark, and lit only by dim red light, with this infestation varient only the hive rooms would be extremely dark, with the outlying territories (the areas that swap sides frequently) would still be fairly bright.
As for the rest of the design document, I think you're making things more complicated than they need to be. Just set up a new rule that every area must have one (and only one)power node, and get rid of power packs -- as they are obviously flawed. That will eliminate any confusion as to where structures can be built, and if the absence of power packs makes the game unbalanced, give the power nodes more health, so that marines have more time to respond.
This makes activating rooms a calculated risk. And you may have to put it off for awhile to get some critical tech instead. Those are real delays that would prevent rooms from bouncing back and forth between aliens and marines. There'd need to be a balancing cost on the alien side though. Maybe the alien pustules could cost some team resources? Or, perhaps the alien commander could have a team resource cost to "infest" the power node just like the marine commander has the activation cost.
Rooms could stay normally lit most of the time (even with destroyed node), have a brief blackout on activated node destruction, have power for marine structures when activated (with some kind of visual effect for this), and have constant dark rooms when "infested" with whatever colored lighting effects look the best.
Aliens could need croach around the node to "infest" it, so that would leave a lot of neutral ground on the map with normal lighting. I'm not sure alien comms would pay just for the darkness though. Maybe resource nodes and tech points could be electrified when the power node is not "Infested", preventing those alien structures from being build there.
This could work thematically, if you think of a power node as more of a "switch box" and less as a power source. The room has power with or without it. Marines need it to route and manage power from the room into their ad-hoc structures. Aliens need to infest it in order to disrupt power flow in the room, make things dark and spooky, and turn off the electricity on the tech points and resource points.
Speaking of theme, this is making me think there is something wrong with the way nodes work as weak points. Imagine a huge alien attack, with some Onos involved. They rush into marine start... and start smashing up all the marine structures, right? Nope. They all jump on the node, that's the only structure that needs to be destroyed. The aliens can win without even really having to attack the marine command center. It just seems a little weird, in video game terms.
Maybe the command chair should switch into providing backup power for critical systems only. I am thinking the spawn portals and armory stays active, but comm sat, arms lab, factory, and all turrets power down. That would still gut the majority of marine defense (especially if they now face a fully upgraded alien team with no upgrades of their own). Maybe the comm chair can't build new structures while it's doing this, and once the MACs run out there will be no more repairs either. The aliens will win eventually if the marines can't get the main power back up (especially if node needs to be activated). This could lead to some tense last stands, where marines hold out just long enough to get their defenses back up.
Some might say the armory should power down too, but I believe it should stay up. It makes a marine defense possible, and it's the perfect time to spend all your res on weapons. That will run out eventually. Also, multiple armories don't add to the defense much and aliens can handle one armory. Another advantage of command chair backup power is that it gives you a reason to build a second command chair to reinforce your defense of a hive location. It even gives you a reason to build second tech structures at an alternate location, so you don't lose critical upgrades when the lights go out.
This makes activating rooms a calculated risk. And you may have to put it off for awhile to get some critical tech instead. Those are real delays that would prevent rooms from bouncing back and forth between aliens and marines. There'd need to be a balancing cost on the alien side though. Maybe the alien pustules could cost some team resources? Or, perhaps the alien commander could have a team resource cost to "infest" the power node just like the marine commander has the activation cost.
Rooms could stay normally lit most of the time (even with destroyed node), have a blackout on node destruction, have power for marine structures when activated (with some kind of visual effect for this), and have constant dark rooms when "infested" with whatever colored lighting effects look the best.
Aliens could need croach around the node to "infest" it, so that would leave a lot of neutral ground on the map with normal lighting. I'm not sure alien comms would pay just for the darkness though. Maybe resource nodes and tech points could be electrified when the power node is not "Infested", preventing those alien structures from being build there.
This could work thematically, if you think of a power node as more of a "switch box" and less as a power source. The room has power with or without it. Marines need it to route and manage power from the room into their ad-hoc structures. Aliens need to infest it in order to disrupt power flow in the room, make things dark and spooky, and turn off the electricity on the tech points and resource points.
Speaking of theme, this is making me think there is something wrong with the way nodes work as weak points. Imagine a huge alien attack, with some Onos involved. They rush into marine start... and start smashing up all the marine structures, right? Nope. They all jump on the node, that's the only structure that needs to be destroyed. The aliens can win without even really having to attack the marine command center. It just seems a little weird, in video game terms.
Maybe the command chair should switch into providing backup power for critical systems only. I am thinking the spawn portals and armory stays active, but comm sat, arms lab, factory, and all turrets power down. That would still gut the majority of marine defense (especially if they now face a fully upgraded alien team with no upgrades of their own). Maybe the comm chair can't build new structures while it's doing this, and once the MACs run out there will be no more repairs either. The aliens will win eventually if the marines can't get the main power back up (especially if node needs to be activated). This could lead to some tense last stands, where marines hold out just long enough to get their defenses back up.
Some might say the armory should power down too, but I believe it should stay up. It makes a marine defense possible, and it's the perfect time to spend all your res on weapons. That will run out eventually. Also, multiple armories don't add to the defense much and aliens can handle one armory. Another advantage of command chair backup power is that it gives you a reason to build a second command chair to reinforce your defense of a hive location. It even gives you a reason to build second tech structures at an alternate location, so you don't lose critical upgrades when the lights go out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like those ideas. I'm a huge fan of dark spooky spaces being as prevalent as possible, but aside from that point of contention on the lighting, I agree with these thoughts completely.
Cool concept.
I really like how it makes command stations more useful than just denying tech points to aliens.
I think the red emergency lighting currently in the game should be moved to <i>only</i> be used when this "emergency power" mode comes on. It really sells the whole idea of the Marine base operating on minimal power -- like the command station shut off the lights in order to reroute that energy to power the portals and armories.
The sudden loss of power, though, is NOT boring. It's<b> awesome</b>. The fight over power is cool. It's fun. I like fun. So the idea of power is good. It's the mechanics of using power nodes that kinda blows.
<b>IMO, the solution is: make power nodes invulnerable. If the node is covered by *connected* infestation, the power node blows out (takes 100% damage instantly). It can only be repaired after the infestation is cleared, but is repaired really fast. </b>
That's it. Entire mechanic done and done. Simple.
You can launch a base assault to cover your Gorges in to bring the infestation along - meaning that even in smallish games the power can be cut pretty fast by a Gorge or two and / or an alien comm with a stock of power. But even a single marine can potentially cut the connection by nailing a cyst back out of the fight, and the marines can get the power up fast if they just kill the nearest cyst and do a couple of seconds of repair. The focus of the battle isn't all about a single point, there's a lot more to it.
---
Wierdness follows:
Going on from there, I'd really like to see the power nodes being somewhat outside of the area they cover. Sorta like a power router. That might give mappers some interesting options - imagine if in the usual map, there was no node in Marine Start at all - but if <b>both</b> FC's and Vent's power was cut, that'd cut power to the entire section. Well ok, perhaps not quite like that, since the map would need a lot of re-working (two choke points = bad - so you'd need perhaps some alternate route to Marine Start - or shift the FC power node into the lockable door area), but something similar. What if there was a generator room or two, and cuts there might knock out power to all sorts of other sections? That provides one more focus of strategy: power is not simply a function of an assault on a location, something that's there anyway. It's a separate battle altogether...
1) Stand By - This would be the default state of the lights at game start. Dimmer than the current default set with some darker spots here and there. This is a bit spooky, but not yet alien looking. It's important to have the majority of the map is a neutral state at the beginning of the match. I would think of the lighting of NS1 maps for guidance here. There are a few dark spots around a room, but it is easy to see the space and navigate as a marine.
2) Powered Up - This is the current default at map start. Still are some dark corners, but generally open spaces are well light up.
3) Critical Failure - This is mostly dark with some flickering and dramatic lighting in a few areas. When infestation and kharaa structures are built, nice dim glows help sketch out a very alien-looking space around the obviously malfunctioning power of the area.
The tricky part is determining how these 3 states are enacted in the game. Number 1 is easy, it's the default setting. If there is no transceiver socketed by the marines and no infestation, it is the one that is in effect. Number 2 comes into effect once the marines build the transceiver in the socket for that area/room. Number 3 is what happens when infestation is in effect over the power-node socket. This seems pretty straight-forward, intuitive and elegant.
But wait! What happens if a built socket is subsequently covered by infestation? or a transceiver is built in a powernode socket that already covered by infestation? Ah, these edge cases are interesting! So, my idea would be to have the power node take damage over time much like a disconnected cyst would. This would provide the opportunity for ninja-building in a room that is mostly infested. You would still need un-infested space to actually build marine structures. This would give an incentive to infest areas that marines might use in a ninja-build push, requiring the marines to kill a cyst to be able to build. The killing of the cyst would of course alert the kharaa about the sneak attack.
The other part of the power node system that was once mentioned in dev posts long ago was the power node network. The idea seemed to be that the power node system would work as a network of linked areas. The comm station was to act like a generator that supplies power to adjacent power node transceivers that then can propagate that power to their adjacent areas. This was supposed to allow for the aliens to cut the power grid by attacking a powernode in the middle of the network to shut off power to a distant expansion. It also would be a great incentive for marines to have multiple comm stations to act as backup generators for sections of the power grid. With 2 comm stations connected to a power grid it is more difficult for the aliens to isolate a section and cause the power to shut off. The dev posts I remember mentioned the lights of the vunerable grid section flickering when the connecting powernode was attacked. This system was very similar in scope to the cyst network, but with fixed node locations and linking of areas.
Is this system of power grid completely abandoned or has it just not been polished to that extent yet? I can see that requiring linked powernodes would certainly limit the current ninja capabilities of setting up an outpost far from a comm station. I also see that multiple comm stations currently have little value to marines strategically. I think the power grid would bring back using multiple comm stations as a required step in a successful marine game.
<b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Blue<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> = Design Doc
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Green</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> = Feedback
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<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #1: Power packs are flawed: wall-mounted power points are there to always allow the aliens to fight a room full of sentries and marine structures. Power points can be built everywhere and redundantly, leading to problems where aliens can’t attack a very emplaced marine team.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed. Power packs need to be removed so the actual wall mounted power nodes become much more important.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #2: Too much time is spent with rooms in powered-off mode, meaning the visual look is often lost.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed. This is how it should work:
1) Aliens destroy the wall mounted power node. The lights immediately cut output by 60% and are running on backup power. Like having a generator kick on in real life, the switch over is immediate.
2) After a set amount of time, the power goes black completely. The amount of time you have before you lose backup power is determined by the amount of structures needing power in the room. Marine commanders should be able to shut the power down of uneeded structures to give themselves more time if they're having trouble restoring full power. The "power antennas" on the structures will give a quick visual cue to marines and commanders which structures are on or shut down.
3) After the backup power is exhausted, the lights go black. Currently, the texture lights on many of your room props are still "on" when the lights go black:
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/ns22011102500103662.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5862/ns22011102500103662.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
This should be changed if possible so its pitch black except for the individual marine armor lights, MACs, and ARCs since they have their own batteries. Marines will use flashlights which enhances the atmosphere greatly.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #3: There are places where the marines can’t build and it’s not clear why. Ie, tram tunnel, Crevice, Crossroads and areas near Alien Start.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>100% agreed. I hear newer players ask that question all the time in areas like Crossroads. Having the whole map under the sway of the powergrid should change this.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Problem #4: The powered state of rooms changes back and forth a lot, removing some of the drama and special nature of those moments.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed. My solution presented above will help significantly with that. I would ditch the red emergency lighting entirely and switch over to dimmed backup lighting and associated backup power mechanic. As the backup power level continues to drop and the marines aren't able to get the power back up due to alien attacks, the tension keeps getting higher and higher until the power turns off completely and the marines are shrowded in darkness. Sounds pretty cinematic to me.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Remove power packs and change power points to a “socket†model<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Again, its a good thing power packs are being removed.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Put power point sockets all over the map, including alien areas. Every part of the map should be covered by exactly one power point.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes. Although, starting alien hives\immediate areas should start with their power in the "dimmed" setting. You could explain this lore wise due to the infestation presence affecting the power network. As before, it will go black and the colors of the alien fauna will change the look of the room.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Power points should be placed where they’re vulnerable from fire outside of rooms. They are placed in an opposite way of tech points: they should be somewhat snipable.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Probably a good idea. You don't want them to be TOO entrenched in the room so aliens don't have a chance to take them out.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Power points are redesigned to have a “cage†protecting them. Marines can break off the cage by +using it: it falls to the ground and disappears.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>This may work well in the early game. Although I would change it so that if alien infestation (connected to hive) grows over it, it will break off and start taking damage. Alien start will automatically have it pop off shortly after round start due to the hive infestation growing over it and damaging it. This will reinforce to new players that infestation is the counter to the marine's power. If infestation is still covering the power node once destroyed and on backup power, it will sap backup power until it is zero. Marines have a priority to keep the node clear of infestation while trying to retake it.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->At the same time, the marine sticks some small “transmitter†which hijacks some of the power and broadcasts it out into the room, which will power marines structures. Every 5 seconds, it pulses with a graphical effect, and the structures “respondâ€, showing that they are linked up.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Sounds good. Enabling the marine commander to switch off buildings will compliment this mechanic when the power is on backup.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- Power points are invulnerable to damage until the cage has been removed. Once removed, they can be damaged normally and work the way they currently do.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed but again, (hive connected) alien infestation should pop them off. This means the early game will focus less on immediately destroying power nodes, and instead aliens jockeying for general map control and preventing marines from getting res or defending alien res from pressure teams.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- So there are now three powered states:
1. Initial: The cage is over the power node and the room looks “normalâ€.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->2. Powered: The cage is knocked off, the power node has the transponder attached and active. The room looks mostly normal, but we’ll add some extra energy or electricity effects.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes. Antennas on structures will pulse green or something like that.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->3. Destroyed: The lights and power go out, totally black, for a bit. After a time, the emergency lights come back on, but instead of being red, the lights keep their current color,although much more dimmed. Alternatively, the lights will be totally black.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>This should be modified. The lights go 60% dim or so, but structures stay on but slowly suck the backup power down to zero. The comm can shut buildings down to conserve backup power to buy more time. Once the backup power is exhausted, the lights go 100% black.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- The alien structures will all give off colored lights. So built up alien rooms will be glowing beautifully, like this:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Alien fauna should give off an alien colored hue. The lighting should completely transform the room so it looks truly alien. Think of that scene from the abyss where he flies through the underwater alien city:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEOMadZTt1Q" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEOMadZTt1Q</a></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- MACs and ARCs will have working lights attached them, as well as Scanner Sweep.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes. Scanner sweep should eventually be redone so it moves along the walls\floor\ceiling of the area being scanned. Temporarily lighting up the room where its scanning. You guys talked about an effect like that back when you had that video prototyping the alien flashlight.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->- If rooms change hands too often, increase repair time and health each time it is repaired.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Potential hidden modifiers. Those are things to avoid unless its made visually obvious that its going to be less efficient each time its repaired. Could play around with it but I think the ideas above will help in that regard.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#9932CC--><span style="color:#9932CC"><!--/coloro-->Final thoughts due to these changes\modifications:
It will become more rare for marines to lose power completely unless aliens are really pushing hard and preventing them from restoring full power. Going to immediate backup power is also exciting since the marine commander now has to juggle power resources and decide which buildings he should disable to buy some more time. This mechanic also extends the existing functionality of being able to turn PGs off, and reinforces that marines need power to function. Tension rises as marines struggle to repair the power node against coordinated alien attacks, and as the marine comm attempts to keep the power on while having to decide which structures are critical to the effort. For example: Should I disable the IP, armory, and observatory in order to keep the turrets online, or disable the turrets which saves a lot of power and be able to keep the more critical structures like the armory\IP on instead?
An additional mechanic to expand this concept is having command stations at tech points provide this limited backup power to the power grid that affects nearby hallways\rooms. So a skulk may kill the power socket in the nearby hallway, but if you have a command station in that grid's tech point, it won't go pitch black and will receive backup power. Alien infestation over these power sockets will sap the backup power of your comm station in addition to the power drain coming from existing powered-on structures.
If marines are unable to restore power, the aliens will move in with infestation and alien fauna and start to inhabit the pitch black room, which in turn, transforms its look into something completely alien and organic. Ideally, alien fauna\infestation should be pretty and colorful to look at instead of the standard orange\red tones. Greens, blues, purples, and others along with bio-luminescence should be present. Getting rid of the (IMO) ugly and mandatory red emergency lighting will help rooms feel more organically lit depending on where structures are placed and the amount of infestation in the room.
It would be beneficial to give mappers some middle ground in how their rooms will be lit when in the "dimmed emergency power" stage, so the problems of tripods staying lit and the like will be resolved.</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I also learned that the powernodes are to easy as a back up, as commander you know tend to have the habbit to "dig in" in small corners of the map with 4 sentrys, a powernode and a phase gate. You then don't really care if the power is cut.
However I also don't like the idea that marines wouldn't have any counter to cutting the power.
Perhaps powerpacks that can only power the most vital structures such as IP's and Phase Gates, but not very intuïtieve?
You could also give a limited range of structures an upgrade so they can have their own powerpack, attached to them, for a price ofc. Like IP's for example. For the commander this can be intuitive, and for aliens aswell when you provide a visual change.
One more thing about the screenshot: it actually looks unrealistic and weird, the reason for me saying is that there are alot of big white lights in the room, and you would think they light up at least a little bit of the wall and air surounding them but instead they are just white bumps in a black room, that just doesn't look realistic.
Perhaps powerpacks that can only power the most vital structures such as IP's and Phase Gates, but not very intuïtieve?
You could also give a limited range of structures an upgrade so they can have their own powerpack, attached to them, for a price ofc. Like IP's for example. For the commander this can be intuitive, and for aliens aswell when you provide a visual change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about this:
1) The "limited backup power" mechanic from my post only applies to tech point rooms with command stations built on them. Command stations inject backup power into the rooms power-grid for a finite time. Infestation that actively covers the power node saps this backup power.
2) Rooms\hallways nearby a tech point room can have their power blacked out entirely when destroyed. If a command station is built in the tech spot, backup power is provided for all nearby hallways\rooms.
3) If infestation covers any of the power sockets in any of the hallways\nearby rooms, it will sap the backup power of the command station back at the tech point.
Now marines actually have a use for tech points again, but it isn't as critical as it is for aliens to hold tech points.
Perhaps powerpacks that can only power the most vital structures such as IP's and Phase Gates, but not very intuïtieve?
You could also give a limited range of structures an upgrade so they can have their own powerpack, attached to them, for a price ofc. Like IP's for example. For the commander this can be intuitive, and for aliens aswell when you provide a visual change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps Marines could start using hand operated dynamos for emergency power! :P
I can see the sudden loss of power can be frustrating for Marines. Allowing Power Packs to use their stored energy sounds like a great idea to me (with each building in the area draining it faster).
<!--quoteo(post=1881821:date=Oct 24 2011, 09:42 PM:name=GeneralBowser)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeneralBowser @ Oct 24 2011, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One more thing about the screenshot: it actually looks unrealistic and weird, the reason for me saying is that there are alot of big white lights in the room, and you would think they light up at least a little bit of the wall and air surounding them but instead they are just white bumps in a black room, that just doesn't look realistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean aeroripper's screenshot? I agree that the white glow from the lights could be toned down a bit. Apart from that, that is very close to how real fluorescent lights look right after they are switched off.
This is how they have looked for a long time when the power goes pitch black for a few seconds. It looks weird and as I suggested, they should go out completely.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You mean aeroripper's screenshot? I agree that the white glow from the lights could be toned down a bit. Apart from that, that is very close to how real fluorescent lights look right after they are switched off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're texture lights and remain on all the time. Not sure if its possible to switch their lighting into an off state, but if a room goes pitch black, they should also go off since the power has been cut.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Agreed. This is how it should work:
1) Aliens destroy the wall mounted power node. The lights immediately cut output by 60% and are running on backup power. Like having a generator kick on in real life, the switch over is immediate</b>.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There should be some additional audio/visual cues to back this up, like warning lights flashing and the hum of the generator kicking in. Would make it clearer what's going on, epecially to new players, and would be very noticeable to players who don't have speakers on or are distracted that something very bad is going on at base and they need to get there pronto.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>2) After a set amount of time, the power goes black completely. The amount of time you have before you lose backup power is determined by the amount of structures needing power in the room. Marine commanders should be able to shut the power down of uneeded structures to give themselves more time if they're having trouble restoring full power. The "power antennas" on the structures will give a quick visual cue to marines and commanders which structures are on or shut down.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the lights should gradually fade to black (after the initial instant cut of 60% luminosity when the power node was destroyed). This would provide a visual indication of how much power is left, in addition to adding to the tension of the mad rush to restore power. This would also be useful in places where there were no marine structures -- like near an alien hive. After the power node was knocked out there by the infestation, the lights would only very slowly go out. This would provide a clear visual gradient of both how long the aliens had occupied a room and also of how deep you were in alien territory. Something like:
<b>Border</b> -- The light is only slightly dimmer
<b>Midway</b> -- Lighting is a very dim
<b>At the Hive</b> -- Pitch Black
As of right now, I feel the transitions between alien and marine held areas are too abrupt -- the contested middle ground needs to be shown visually.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> <b>- The alien structures will all give off colored lights. So built up alien rooms will be glowing beautifully, like this:</b> <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Alien fauna should give off an alien colored hue. The lighting should completely transform the room so it looks truly alien. Think of that scene from the abyss where he flies through the underwater alien city:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UWE mentioned adding mist to the alien held areas -- the hive in particular was supposed to emit mist (at 4:00 in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHZ1SFsOvR8&feature=channel_video_title" target="_blank">this youtube vid</a>). Mist would give those areas an especially eerie and ethereal vibe. I highly recommend that this be considered again.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--> - MACs and ARCs will have working lights attached them, as well as Scanner Sweep.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> </b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes. Scanner sweep should eventually be redone so it moves along the walls\floor\ceiling of the area being scanned. Temporarily lighting up the room where its scanning. You guys talked about an effect like that back when you had that video prototyping the alien flashlight.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's referring to <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0txpeJUsbCw" target="_blank">this video on youtube</a>, at 3:21. And that is an absolute bad ass effect. PLEASE use that for scanner sweep.
<!--quoteo(post=1881816:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b> <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->- If rooms change hands too often, increase repair time and health each time it is repaired.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Potential hidden modifiers. Those are things to avoid unless its made visually obvious that its going to be less efficient each time its repaired. Could play around with it but I think the ideas above will help in that regard.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When a power node is repaired, have it switched to a new model showing how it's all ghetto-rigged up -- an impromptu repair in the field isn't going to look too pretty, and it shows players that it has low health. If it's destroyed and repaired a second time, add sparks or something coming out of it, to show it is in really bad shape. Just progressive damage each time you repair it.
<!--quoteo(post=1881824:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:52 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Oct 25 2011, 01:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about this:
1) The "limited backup power" mechanic from my post only applies to tech point rooms with command stations built on them. Command stations inject backup power into the rooms power-grid for a finite time. Infestation that actively covers the power node saps this backup power.
2) Rooms\hallways nearby a tech point room can have their power blacked out entirely when destroyed. If a command station is built in the tech spot, backup power is provided for all nearby hallways\rooms.
3) If infestation covers any of the power sockets in this part of the grid, it saps the backup power of the command station back at the tech point.
Now marines actually have a use for tech points again, but it isn't as critical as it is for aliens to hold tech points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+5. Marines need to have a good reason to build additional command centers. Its <i>extremely</i> odd that Marines so rarely use the tech points that <i>they built for themselves</i>.
Yes, we would do this is we could, but currently we aren't able to dynamically turn off the textures on the lights, as well as textures for computer screens, when the power goes off. Eventually we will be able to control that, as well.
--Cory
Would eliminate all the early dark rooms, and also stop people from chomping on them during the first 2 minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spot on.
The advantages that Aliens have in T1 across the map because of dark rooms is insane. Not allowing these nodes (except AS I suppose) to be used untill Marines 'use' them would solve so many early game balance issues.
+1
How about this:
1) The "limited backup power" mechanic from my post only applies to tech point rooms with command stations built on them. Command stations inject backup power into the rooms power-grid for a finite time. Infestation that actively covers the power node saps this backup power.
2) Rooms\hallways nearby a tech point room can have their power blacked out entirely when destroyed. If a command station is built in the tech spot, backup power is provided for all nearby hallways\rooms.
3) If infestation covers any of the power sockets in this part of the grid, it saps the backup power of the command station back at the tech point.
Now marines actually have a use for tech points again, but it isn't as critical as it is for aliens to hold tech points.
+1 Like this idea as well
The proposed changes are rather complicated with lots of different rules, it's not exactly going to help making it easy to learn. Also you'll get a new problem with the proposed solution, which is Aliens will not be able to turn off the power in their hives until marines come and lower the cage for them. This seems a bit strange to me, and the whole design feels a bit abritary (i.e. aiming too much to solve perceviced problems).
With regards to the problems outlined and a new proposed solution:
#4 - I'm not sure is really a problem, but you could add a forcefield (nice and obvious) over newly repaired nodes, and prevent newly destroyed nodes from being repairable (with feedback that it isn't if you try). This would be much easier to see for the player than hidden variables changing the health of the node.
#3 - This is really just a map design issue, add more power nodes, or link them to existing areas, we don't need to go changing the game mechanics.
#2 - You could just change the lighting when a node is destroyed, Have it be pulsing red to begin with (say 30 seconds) for the awesome factor, then switch to standard lighting but dimmed and faintly pulsing (you could alter how bright the power-off lighgint was by the amount of / lack of alien structures). This doesn't completely fix this problem, but I think you have something unique with areas of different control being obviously lit differently and it will hurt the feel of the game if it's changed too much.
#1 - The cool down on destroyed nodes will help the statemate situation. You could require power-pack to be linked (or literately placed into) a repairable (but broken power node), this way they could be a quicker way of repairing nodes (ideally a marine could carry one, rather than it being a place-able bulding, but have to attach it to the node, I can see some hilarious runs to attach the pack) but wouldn't act as immediate kick in back-ups.
I do agree that the lights off alien hive shot is lovely.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also you'll get a new problem with the proposed solution, which is Aliens will not be able to turn off the power in their hives until marines come and lower the cage for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Infestation destroys cages and then the power nodes themselves.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#4 - I'm not sure is really a problem, but you could add a forcefield (nice and obvious) over newly repaired nodes, and prevent newly destroyed nodes from being repairable (with feedback that it isn't if you try). This would be much easier to see for the player than hidden variables changing the health of the node.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suggested showing the node looking more and more damaged after each repair (just like a shirt looks more rinkydink the more patches you add to it), but I also like your idea of adding some kind of cooldown time before it can be repaired. You could add a HUD icon showing the cool down left before the node could be repaired.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#3 - This is really just a map design issue, add more power nodes, or link them to existing areas, we don't need to go changing the game mechanics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Every room will now have a single power node.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#2 - You could just change the lighting when a node is destroyed, Have it be pulsing red to begin with (say 30 seconds) for the awesome factor, then switch to standard lighting but dimmed and faintly pulsing (you could alter how bright the power-off lighgint was by the amount of / lack of alien structures). This doesn't completely fix this problem, but I think you have something unique with areas of different control being obviously lit differently and it will hurt the feel of the game if it's changed too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aeroripper's idea was to have the lighting dim by 60% when a node is destroyed. Then, marines have a limited amount of time (depending on the number of structures in the room -- commander can turn off structures to gain more time) to repair the node, or the lights go completely to black and all structures go offline.
------------------
I have to say, I really hated this idea when I first heard it, but now I'm getting kind of excited about it. Like Cygone said, it can help make the game more balanced in early game, it makes power nodes have a significant and strategic purpose -- as opposed to just a nuisance, and it makes additional command centers relevant. It needs a bit more polishing, certainly, but I think the game could be a great deal more entertaining and thrilling if it is properly implemented.
Commander can rebuild the cage, to keep the room powered but not allow any buildings to function. In case you want to withdraw from a room but make it easier to take back.
Alien infestation can infest a caged node so that the marines have to destroy the infestation before they can take the cage off, giving both teams a way to secure uncontested nodes. Otherwise I worry that caged nodes would be a massive liability for aliens.
Otherwise it sounds like a fairly good system, keeps the map looking like it's supposed to, prevents aliens from having to chomp all the starting nodes, makes the power node more useful for gameplay.
The sudden loss of power, though, is NOT boring. It's<b> awesome</b>. The fight over power is cool. It's fun. I like fun. So the idea of power is good. It's the mechanics of using power nodes that kinda blows.
<b>IMO, the solution is: make power nodes invulnerable. If the node is covered by *connected* infestation, the power node blows out (takes 100% damage instantly). It can only be repaired after the infestation is cleared, but is repaired really fast. </b>
That's it. Entire mechanic done and done. Simple.
You can launch a base assault to cover your Gorges in to bring the infestation along - meaning that even in smallish games the power can be cut pretty fast by a Gorge or two and / or an alien comm with a stock of power. But even a single marine can potentially cut the connection by nailing a cyst back out of the fight, and the marines can get the power up fast if they just kill the nearest cyst and do a couple of seconds of repair. The focus of the battle isn't all about a single point, there's a lot more to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>You speak the truth !</b> And it gives a more important role to the infestation, the gorge and the alien commander.
Commander can rebuild the cage, to keep the room powered but not allow any buildings to function. In case you want to withdraw from a room but make it easier to take back.
Alien infestation can infest a caged node so that the marines have to destroy the infestation before they can take the cage off, giving both teams a way to secure uncontested nodes. Otherwise I worry that caged nodes would be a massive liability for aliens.
Otherwise it sounds like a fairly good system, keeps the map looking like it's supposed to, prevents aliens from having to chomp all the starting nodes, makes the power node more useful for gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are some excellent suggestions.
Rebuilding the cage needs some not insignificant time/resource costs.
Infestation seeping into caged powernodes and sealing them off also has great flavour. It's like a microcosom of the game itself -- an inexorable tide of invading organisms flooding into secured facilities, threatening to snuff out all that's inside.
how the power system is now is fine. yes some tweaks need to be done to it. but to the extent that you said might as well remove the power nodes again and forget about the power grid. as it will make it tedious and aliens wont be too happy about not being able to take down power in the rooms anymore.
If you have to constantly worry about several things being broken destroyed or something going wrong it makes a game less fun one should not have to worry about so many things when all someone wants to do is shoot aliens and play a game!!! you guys are getting ahead of your selves as adding more things that can break gameplay and make people have to fix it in order to keep playing makes the experience that much more tedious and less exciting. I thought you wanted to make the game more simple so someone can just pickup the game and play not have to know all of these rules for what has to be maintained or kept working so you can play.
Think about it from the perspective of how easy upkeep will be for players and not how the game will look if the lights go out.
That's it. Entire mechanic done and done. Simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT. The simplest solution is usually the best. The more complicated UWE makes power nodes, the less intuitive it will be, especially to new players. Aliens should be rewarded for expanding into rooms (using infestation), which should result in a lack of power. The spreading lack of power will add a creepy vibe to the map instead of random rooms being powered down. When a marine sees that lights are out, he knows that an alien presence is near. The visuals reinforce the gameplay.
Simple solution, great solution.
Rebuilding the cage needs some not insignificant time/resource costs.
Infestation seeping into caged powernodes and sealing them off also has great flavour. It's like a microcosom of the game itself -- an inexorable tide of invading organisms flooding into secured facilities, threatening to snuff out all that's inside.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I was thinking maybe it'd be kind of expensive, as you're making this alien-proof metal mesh (maybe saying the mesh is electrified or something to justify why aliens can't break it?) but it'd be worth doing if you're in a position to make a controlled withdrawal. You could get some of the cash back if you removed the mesh afterwards as well, to encourage retaking the room.
The infested nodes could also maybe mess with the lights a bit, like make them dim a little but not quite as much as if the node was destroyed.
I also think giving comm stations a power grid role is a good change to make having more than one important for the marines. At the moment though, having a more resilient marine power grid seems like it will only increase the stalemate problems. This might not be an issue once the Onos is added in however. I like the idea of a comm station being able to power a limited number of structures even when a power node is offline. I think this should be limited to IPs, armories and perhaps phasegates. I also think it should only power a limited # of structures (probably 3-4). If a limited # of structure power is set, it would allow comms to decide what is the most important structures to keep online during a tense situation.
I'm not too excited by time-limits on power for structures like some of the backup-power ideas that have been mentioned. Players expect things to either be powered or not powered. Having power run out after a time-limit is reached seems really arbitrary from the POV of a player in the field.
1) The "limited backup power" mechanic from my post only applies to tech point rooms with command stations built on them. Command stations inject backup power into the rooms power-grid for a finite time. Infestation that actively covers the power node saps this backup power.
2) Rooms\hallways nearby a tech point room can have their power blacked out entirely when destroyed. If a command station is built in the tech spot, backup power is provided for all nearby hallways\rooms.
3) If infestation covers any of the power sockets in any of the hallways\nearby rooms, it will sap the backup power of the command station back at the tech point.
Now marines actually have a use for tech points again, but it isn't as critical as it is for aliens to hold tech points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this, it has potential and would give hive rooms a purpose again for marines, perhaps the structures could slowly start to lose power, once it is cut, starting with for example sentry's and then more and more buildings "blank out", until after 2-3 minutes all of them are dead, ending with the IP's obviously.
<!--quoteo(post=1881901:date=Oct 25 2011, 04:14 PM:name=hf_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hf_ @ Oct 25 2011, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->QFT. The simplest solution is usually the best. The more complicated UWE makes power nodes, the less intuitive it will be, especially to new players. Aliens should be rewarded for expanding into rooms (using infestation), which should result in a lack of power. The spreading lack of power will add a creepy vibe to the map instead of random rooms being powered down. When a marine sees that lights are out, he knows that an alien presence is near. The visuals reinforce the gameplay.
Simple solution, great solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is actually a very poor "solution" that will create more problems. Anyone who has played commander knows it's very easy to get infestation to any room as long as you save up some energy. So that includes hive rooms, and most importantly marine start. You can get there even faster with the help of a gorge.
Although I am def in favor of infestation being able to damage powernodes, but I would say the speed shouldn't be faster then that of a skulk.
1. The map lighting stays the same as the mapper intended
2. Which room is/isn't powered is pretty clear (i.e. is there a power pack nearby?)
1. The map lighting stays the same as the mapper intended
2. Which room is/isn't powered is pretty clear (i.e. is there a power pack nearby?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because that only encourages power-pack spam?
Cause I love my sneaky PGs. I will be very sad if they go away :(
It wouldn't necessarily just be a "countdown" till zero. Maybe a power bar is drawn on the marine hud that decreases as backup power is drained. It would be obvious to all players in that part of the grid what the level of backup power was and how quickly it was getting drained.
Cause I love my sneaky PGs. I will be very sad if they go away :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure it's all fun on the Marine side, but it's kind of a huge bs pain for Kharaa to suddenly find a never-ending wave of marines instantly teleporting to their hives and setting up turrets in what is supposed to be area under their control.